Are you waiting for War Room?

[the8bitdeity]

I think for those not in the software world, hearing something has "Gone Gold" is a bit of a misnomer. In pre-digital distribution days, going gold literally meant you had the version you sent to the production house to start churning out CDs to sell. Now days digital distribution has removed the physical product, and shortened the gap. Yet still, there are hurdles before it is *released*.

I can understand why PP / TH would be proud to announce gold. As a software developer myself, whenever a big release hits GM (gold master), we usually have a party. That said, from a marketing perspective, I'm sure PP / TH have learned a lesson here.

People think they want transparency, but what they really want is the product available to them. My philosophy is don't tell them anything until you KNOW when they can get it.

[MadJack]

we need to get away from the sense of entitlement and just enjoy what we have...

No! I'm entitled to my sense of entitlement!

[the8bitdeity]

I heard that the new Ipad's retina screen caused all of the cards to be reworked.. I'm not sure this is a fact. I read that Apple didn't let developers know about this ahead of time... So, some of the delay is not caused by Tinkerhouse or PP...

It depends, if there was a lot of pixel math then yes. That said, developers should (and NEED in this blossoming mobile world) seek to encapsulate all pixel related notions to an abstraction layer. I've seen some apps updated to double pixel simply by getting higher quality assets (images). If there is a ton of custom widgetry though, I can imagine it was a hassle.

[rocksalt]

I think you are way off base. You have purchased nothing. Effectively PP owes you nothing. Sure, they pushed the release date back a handful of times but that's about it. Get over it all ready. The game still works perfectly fine without War Room.

The only thing that is going to come from all this moaning is PP is going to stop telling us about stuff in advance. I have seen it many times over in other industries.

Be happy that PP still listens to the end consumer, and cares enough to show off some teaser info. Believe me, that is not going to last forever.

This is why GW doesn't do spoilers, announce release dates or even have an official forum any more.

Anyway, I am excited about War Room. I will buying all of the factions on day one. Also, I really don't care if day one is this week or next week or next month. It will get here when it gets here.

[AJ the Ronin]

That would be me. To put a fine point on it.

And you can rest assured a lesson has been learned.

-L

Lane, my hat off to you. Perhaps one of the best post in these forums for a long time. It even reminded me of the PP of old.

Now, can you tell us of some of the challenges of doing War Room? (Beyond dealing with the community that's it)

[PG_Cridler]

Good on you for posting this.

Very much agreed.

[jandrese]

THIS x10. When we get right down to it, THIS IS A FREE APP! Sure, there is a payable option that everyone is excited about, but in the end, it is something PP & TH is releasing to the public at no cost. Delays happen, we need to get away from the sense of entitlement and just enjoy what we have...

Because the game still works just as it always has...

When we get down to it, this is a free app that costs $70.

[lanedaughtry]

And actually, to put a finer point on it because this is something that weighs on me as both a customer and a responsible business owner....

If you want to examine the dynamics of what went wrong here it is this: We stated release dates we shouldn't have. The people saying that are correct. And when I say we stated I really mean I stated, and Privateer relayed that information in good faith. As dates slipped Privateer was understandably not happy, but they also dealt with it as you have to. You try and determine a new date and work towards that. Again based on my estimations as the lead developer of the company contracted to do the project. I'll tell you honestly the lesson reinforced here is don't do release dates until you are sure.

Now, we have a long term partnership plan with Privateer so they did not throw us under the bus. That was the right thing to do and we appreciate that immensely from them. Conversely the right thing for THG to do is take responsibility for the schedule slips.

Now what I won't do is say that we could have got this product out earlier. Scheduling estimation and communication issues aside, we encountered 3 things that made this project take as long as it did:

• It took far longer than we anticipated to account for all the functional edge cases in the card content. Things like Sturm and Drang's two caster card, and Karchev having jack health and the numerous other one offs made for a lot of iteration to get it right and all play nicely together. There are almost 900 pieces of complex, multi-part content in this app. That takes time to get right.
• When we got all of the UI in and implemented in the original UI API it was not responsive enough to ship. The cards, being procedurally generated from the content Privateer produces and updates, are necessarily complex and that added up to inadequated performance with the first pass. So we made the right choice and chose to redo it in a more complex to author but better performing API.
• We didn't anticipate the functional issues the iPad 3 would present.

We put in the time to make a product good enough to ship. And we'll do that every time.

So in closing, sorry for the communication issues I precipitated. Won't happen again

-L

[PG_Pake]

What's War Room?

If this is sarcasm, I love it! If not, it's almost even funnier.

[PG_zengoth]

No! I'm entitled to my sense of entitlement!

to the

LOL

[PG_relasine]

Lane, if you're going to be on the internet, then you really need to stop taking responsibility for things like an adult, and start behaving more like a ****.

In all seriousness, owning up to that is pretty big of you. I certainly appreciate it.

[Outbreak]

is anyone else tearing up a little bit? :')
*crowd of keening school girls* We love you lane!

[x3tsniper]

If they have stockholders, I'm hoping they're the kind that are smart enough to realize that software is almost always delayed from its initially announced date, often more than once, and sometimes far longer than the delays we've seen here.

People who can't comprehend that, shouldn't be investing in software companies anyhow.

Alternatively, they could have shareholders that demand the product be released on the announced date, regardless of suitability, functionality or feature inclusion. But all of those people have already invested their money in EA stock.

Imagine a world where patience and common sense were the norm? Something tells me we'll be waiting longer for that than we will for War Room.

Anyone remember that little game called star craft ghost?

The wait is getting crazy though. Oo

[the8bitdeity]

• It took far longer than we anticipated to account for all the functional edge cases in the card content. Things like Sturm and Drang's two caster card, and Karchev having jack health and the numerous other one offs made for a lot of iteration to get it right and all play nicely together. There are almost 900 pieces of complex, multi-part content in this app. That takes time to get right.
• When we got all of the UI in and implemented in the original UI API it was not responsive enough to ship. The cards, being procedurally generated from the content Privateer produces and updates, are necessarily complex and that added up to inadequated performance with the first pass. So we made the right choice and chose to redo it in a more complex to author but better performing API.
• We didn't anticipate the functional issues the iPad 3 would present.

-L

As a fellow developer, I would love a discussion sometime (perhaps off line or in PM) on the challenges involved in a more technical level. (Don't worry I'm gainfully employed in a non-competing market ) I've always looked at how to properly model complex games, and it presents itself as a challenge. Seems like a very exception heavy design. You have general behavior (grunts, jacks, etc...) but then you have these exceptions to the rule that tend to break programmatic models. What's the design strategy to get around kludges like : "if (isKarchev) { .... }" I'm curious to how one goes about with baking in exceptions to data modeling.

[PG_LonelyMonk]

If the product is a sweet as it sounds, not many people will remember this a week after it releases...

And actually, to put a finer point on it because this is something that weighs on me as both a customer and a responsible business owner....

If you want to examine the dynamics of what went wrong here it is this: We stated release dates we shouldn't have. The people saying that are correct. And when I say we stated I really mean I stated, and Privateer relayed that information in good faith. As dates slipped Privateer was understandably not happy, but they also dealt with it as you have to. You try and determine a new date and work towards that. Again based on my estimations as the lead developer of the company contracted to do the project. I'll tell you honestly the lesson reinforced here is don't do release dates until you are sure.

Now, we have a long term partnership plan with Privateer so they did not throw us under the bus. That was the right thing to do and we appreciate that immensely from them. Conversely the right thing for THG to do is take responsibility for the schedule slips.

Now what I won't do is say that we could have got this product out earlier. Scheduling estimation and communication issues aside, we encountered 3 things that made this project take as long as it did:

• It took far longer than we anticipated to account for all the functional edge cases in the card content. Things like Sturm and Drang's two caster card, and Karchev having jack health and the numerous other one offs made for a lot of iteration to get it right and all play nicely together. There are almost 900 pieces of complex, multi-part content in this app. That takes time to get right.
• When we got all of the UI in and implemented in the original UI API it was not responsive enough to ship. The cards, being procedurally generated from the content Privateer produces and updates, are necessarily complex and that added up to inadequated performance with the first pass. So we made the right choice and chose to redo it in a more complex to author but better performing API.
• We didn't anticipate the functional issues the iPad 3 would present.

We put in the time to make a product good enough to ship. And we'll do that every time.

So in closing, sorry for the communication issues I precipitated. Won't happen again

-L

[Puchembo]

People think they want transparency, but what they really want is the product available to them. My philosophy is don't tell them anything until you KNOW when they can get it.

As we put it in our little piece of the software world: "Nobody needs to see the inside of the Sausage Factory except the team, immediate management and the SOX auditors" and the SOX auditors are a legal requirement .

Those with enough experience know that calls for transparency actually amount to: Allowing external forces to apply micromanagement pressure to processes and methodologies. Which sucks hard. Usually it is best when I don't tell you how to do your job, you don't tell me how to do mine. Admittedly this makes for a lot less forum fodder which in turn is less "entertaining".

Want to dictate policy and process at THG or PP, see if they will sell you a minority share of either company. When your ****s are on the collective block, THEN you get a say. Until then, to quote Kevin Smith "Rage on, little buddy, rage on".

[AJ the Ronin]

is anyone else tearing up a little bit? :')
*crowd of keening school girls* We love you lane!

Group hug in the showers tonight!

[quindraco]

And actually, to put a finer point on it because this is something that weighs on me as both a customer and a responsible business owner....

If you want to examine the dynamics of what went wrong here it is this: We stated release dates we shouldn't have. The people saying that are correct. And when I say we stated I really mean I stated, and Privateer relayed that information in good faith. As dates slipped Privateer was understandably not happy, but they also dealt with it as you have to. You try and determine a new date and work towards that. Again based on my estimations as the lead developer of the company contracted to do the project. I'll tell you honestly the lesson reinforced here is don't do release dates until you are sure.

Now, we have a long term partnership plan with Privateer so they did not throw us under the bus. That was the right thing to do and we appreciate that immensely from them. Conversely the right thing for THG to do is take responsibility for the schedule slips.

Now what I won't do is say that we could have got this product out earlier. Scheduling estimation and communication issues aside, we encountered 3 things that made this project take as long as it did:

• It took far longer than we anticipated to account for all the functional edge cases in the card content. Things like Sturm and Drang's two caster card, and Karchev having jack health and the numerous other one offs made for a lot of iteration to get it right and all play nicely together. There are almost 900 pieces of complex, multi-part content in this app. That takes time to get right.
• When we got all of the UI in and implemented in the original UI API it was not responsive enough to ship. The cards, being procedurally generated from the content Privateer produces and updates, are necessarily complex and that added up to inadequated performance with the first pass. So we made the right choice and chose to redo it in a more complex to author but better performing API.
• We didn't anticipate the functional issues the iPad 3 would present.

We put in the time to make a product good enough to ship. And we'll do that every time.

So in closing, sorry for the communication issues I precipitated. Won't happen again

-L

Well, thank you. This post is exactly what I think most of us were looking for.

If you thought Sturm and Drang were complicated, wait until PP asks you to add proper theme list support, and suddenly a Venator Reivers go from being a unit to a Weapon Attachment sometimes.

[AnotherMike]

to the

LOL

Boy that takes me back! Ed Grueberman!

Boot to the head!

[Jestor]

Who cares about the War Room release date. It will get here when it does and it will be awesome. I just noticed Lane mentioned a "long term relationship". That means Tinkerhouse is working on other items for them.

WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON??!?!?!?!?!!

Want to buy more infoz!

[Outbreak]

Boy that takes me back! Ed Grueberman!

Boot to the head!

He obviously means he wants bane thralls with pathfinder... although I think I'd rather be faced with a boot to the head

[MadJack]

Hmm, well said Lane. Thanks for the insight and honesty. Now if I could only get an answer about whether theme force validation ended up being supported... I know, I'll find out for myself in probably just a few days anyway, I'm just anxious to know!

[HeadHunter]

Can you imagine if stores got delayed and didn't set-up Christmas until Easter? Or if wire transfers from the bank that were scheduled to go through took months (or even weeks) to process?

Irrelevant comparisons - stores are stocking products that are already manufactured and waiting in warehouses for distribution. An apt comparison would be development of a new product (let's say, some kind of Christmas lights) and then awaiting necessary certifications from UL, FCC, or consumer safety organizations. In those cases, the product that was intended for a Christmas release might not be ready for sale to the consumer until Easter.

And wire transfers are another irrelevant comparison. The money exists - it's a matter of sending ot from one financial organization to another.

Did you have any comparisons that might actually relate to what we are talking about here? If so, you should have offered them as your first attempt.

Seriously, people are acting like this is the first piece of delayed software they've ever heard of. Let us not forget that all this tempest in a teapot is about an app for a TOY. Thank you.

[j78]

Who cares about the War Room release date. It will get here when it does and it will be awesome. I just noticed Lane mentioned a "long term relationship". That means Tinkerhouse is working on other items for them.

WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON??!?!?!?!?!!

Want to buy more infoz!

more importantly, what is your anticipated release date for the long term project. i for one am sick of the delays. this possibly non-existent product was announced several posts ago, and we have no release date yet. i mean really.

[MadJack]

Boy that takes me back! Ed Grueberman!

Boot to the head!

Oh man, now I'm feeling nostalgic for the show Four on the Floor (which was my only real exposure to the Frantics).

[PG_zengoth]

Let us not forget that all this tempest in a teapot is about an app for a TOY. Thank you.

That is sig worthy. May I...?

[MadJack]

And wire transfers are another irrelevant comparison. The money exists - it's a matter of sending ot from one financial organization to another.

And actually, as somebody who has worked in financial institutions my whole life, I can tell you that depending on the destination of a wire transfer and how many intermediaries it has to go through to get there, it's entirely possible for a wire to take weeks.

[Kade]

Just guessing here, but the first thing that comes to mind when Lane says that THG and PP will have a long term relationship, is he is referring to THG making the new cards for units as they come out and updating them into war room. Them having a long term relationship does not mean they have any new apps coming out.

[dracphelan]

And actually, to put a finer point on it because this is something that weighs on me as both a customer and a responsible business owner....

If you want to examine the dynamics of what went wrong here it is this: We stated release dates we shouldn't have. The people saying that are correct. And when I say we stated I really mean I stated, and Privateer relayed that information in good faith. As dates slipped Privateer was understandably not happy, but they also dealt with it as you have to. You try and determine a new date and work towards that. Again based on my estimations as the lead developer of the company contracted to do the project. I'll tell you honestly the lesson reinforced here is don't do release dates until you are sure.

Now, we have a long term partnership plan with Privateer so they did not throw us under the bus. That was the right thing to do and we appreciate that immensely from them. Conversely the right thing for THG to do is take responsibility for the schedule slips.

Now what I won't do is say that we could have got this product out earlier. Scheduling estimation and communication issues aside, we encountered 3 things that made this project take as long as it did:

• It took far longer than we anticipated to account for all the functional edge cases in the card content. Things like Sturm and Drang's two caster card, and Karchev having jack health and the numerous other one offs made for a lot of iteration to get it right and all play nicely together. There are almost 900 pieces of complex, multi-part content in this app. That takes time to get right.
• When we got all of the UI in and implemented in the original UI API it was not responsive enough to ship. The cards, being procedurally generated from the content Privateer produces and updates, are necessarily complex and that added up to inadequated performance with the first pass. So we made the right choice and chose to redo it in a more complex to author but better performing API.
• We didn't anticipate the functional issues the iPad 3 would present.

We put in the time to make a product good enough to ship. And we'll do that every time.

So in closing, sorry for the communication issues I precipitated. Won't happen again

-L

Thank you for this. I think an explanation and apology is what all the disappointed players really want. It is a sign of your good character that you have done this.

[WarpedWolf]

Lane said earlier (responding to a post of mine, in fact) that tinkerhouse would be sticking around for a while, to provide support in case PP wanted to do something that wasn't supported by War Room. Presumably they're providing a certain level of technical support as well. Anything else is speculation.

[the8bitdeity]

Just guessing here, but the first thing that comes to mind when Lane says that THG and PP will have a long term relationship, is he is referring to THG making the new cards for units as they come out and updating them into war room. Them having a long term relationship does not mean they have any new apps coming out.

He's already said there is a content management system in place in the existing (upcoming) release. If they had to recompile every time PP put out new cards, it would be maddening.

I would speculate the long term relationship implies:
* support
* possible Future Enhancements of the platform
* future stuff they're not going to tell us (especially after how the War Room release was handled)

[SgtPepper]

So did Lane get that email from Apple yet saying they're looking at the app?

[PG_General Nemo]

So did Lane get that email from Apple yet saying they're looking at the app?

Off topic: Your avatar is incredible.

[SgtPepper]

Off topic: Your avatar is incredible.

Thanks Who doesn't love chubby bubbles girl and Star Wars!!!
Ok back on topic now.

[garwjenk]

I'm pretty sure when he says "long term relationship", he means that chessboard thingy in the Milennium Falcon.

Well done Lane, it is nice to see people with integrity in the business world. Thank you.

[Jestor]

* future stuff they're not going to tell us (especially after how the War Room release was handled)

That's what I figured which is why I want more information

[Bohrdog]

I guess it's not going to be today ether. So any bets on who finishes up first? Apple or Amazon

[Patryn]

I heard that the new Ipad's retina screen caused all of the cards to be reworked.. I'm not sure this is a fact. I read that Apple didn't let developers know about this ahead of time... So, some of the delay is not caused by Tinkerhouse or PP...

The delay is caused by PP, because they are stubbornly sticking to a simultaneous release. Release it on Android, and then let the apple users be mad at apple for their slow approval process.

[the8bitdeity]

I guess it's not going to be today ether. So any bets on who finishes up first? Apple or Amazon

Currently it's 11:28am West Coast, so I wouldn't rule today out (nor would I assume it either)

[AJ the Ronin]

The delay is caused by PP, because they are stubbornly sticking to a simultaneous release. Release it on Android, and then let the apple users be mad at apple for their slow approval process.

Amazon haven't approved either. But yeah, release on Play Store at least.