Colossals Fluff Discussion: Spoilers Alert

[Octavius_Maximus]

So I have just finished reading the Fluff from Colossals, and I am quite impressed with whats going on. The pacing is quite good, with almost the whole book coming to grips with the Mistrusting Allies between Cygnar-Khador, Zerkova-Goreshade, Magnus-Fiona-Broadsides.

The Final battle, while visceral and interesting to read, still confuses me a little, since all of a sudden some of the Greatest Strategic and Tactical Minds of any age are falling into trap after trap. I mean, the allies were winning, they had no reason to rush all in, Irusk at the very least must have known that Cryx will have reinforcements, they will always have reinforcements. So suddenly throwing all of their important assets into a killing field just seems...incredibly out of character for him, not to mention everyone else there.

The new Khador Warcaster is interesting, what little we saw of him, inexperienced and yet was able to control 3 Conquests and 2 Demolishers simultaneously without Issue. [If this kid becomes a playable caster in the future, im hoping that he is a support caster who has abilities based on money (due to his families apparent wealth), so Paymaster, maybe. I would kill for money-shot on Riflemen...or hell, anyone.]

The Khador-Cortex disabling device that the Protectorate has been holding on too has finally been revealed, I wonder what ramifications this will have in the future? Also what message does Vlad want to tell Severius so badly that he is risking EVERYTHING to do it? Something that Zehvanna has told him, it seems, so probably a nugget of the future. While Severius is making plans for his own death, i think something is up here, and i don't much like the smell of it.

Malathrax is doing some very strange dealings. There are 2 possible agendas here. 1 could be that he is working against Asphyxious and finds him to be a true threat and wants Terminus to do it for him. or 2, which i think is more likely, Malathrax has something to gain from the Athanc having less guards. (or possibly 3. He knew Terminus would try to safeguard the Athanc over attacking Asphyxious, and so presented it as an option to make Terminus 'have the idea' of protecting the Athanc. Hmm, bluffs within Bluffs).

Goreshade is doing something rather complicated to the Retribution, he has monologued his way into telling them everything that he has done for them so far. It's hard to say whether he is simple, or complicated. Is he just an evil mistachioed monologuing bad guy? Or is he revealing all for some purpose? I have a feeling that Zerkova is one of the kinds of characters who could outplay him, she has many tricks up her massive sleeves and under her hat, so whether she ends up giving him the Flashlight of Maguffin or tries to capture him and force him to do it, it is yet to be seen.

Haleys poisoning story is great, mainly because: 1. I love it when Haley has set backs the annoying cow, and 2. It shows off that Nemo can still be a nasty piece of work, basically throwing her into battle so she can learn what it is like to lose for once. But the question is: Who sent the assassin in the first place? Was it meant for Nemo? Or Haley? Maybe the assassin was trying to kill the caster conventionally, which could have been true, but perhaps that was going to just be a bonus? I mean Nemo without Powers isnt actually a huge loss to Cygnar, he is still artificer general and one of the greatest experimental minds of this age. Haley without powers, though, is a MASSIVE blow to Cygnar, since that really is her strength. Having her control warjacks is alright, but it prevents her from really intervening. Im guessing Malathrax had something to do with it, it doesnt seem like Asphyxious' style (which is an 'line up all the pieces so they all fall over in one go') style, and Deneghra doesn't know about it.

And wow, Nightmare got Smashed to bits! Stryker AND Kraye were almost Killed. Khador used Sympathetic magic to find Karchev, which was a brilliant move on Irusks/Karchevs part, meaning that rather than having the search the Thornwood, The allies were led straight there. This means that if they can switch the advantage up (like a Certain Irusk is great at doing), then a quick victory may mean that all of the diversionary tactics Asphyxious has been doing for Venethrax may have been for Naught.

Also, Karchev is awesome, why do i imagine Deneghra falling Deeply in Love with the only man who can resist her? All the cute girls go for the aloof guys in giant robot suits.

So what do you think?

[AJ the Ronin]

The first line of the Khador section is one of the best lines written on WM fiction, period.

IMO Goreshade (and Gaspy) are doing a Xanatos Gambit. The Shade manipulate Zekova and Vyros and there is no doubt both end up doing what Goreshade wanted.

Gaspy? Xanatos is a rookies next to him.

[Demeritus]

I think that Vlad is going to attempt to push Severius into an alliance against Cryx, which is likely what he wanted to meet with him about initially. Severius may or may not die but dying in the Protectorate doesn't necessarily mean anything in that he could come back as a Vessel of Judgement caster or so but he did say he wasn't exactly in a rush to die either but he is taking the necessary precautions as like most old people he knows he has less time than more.

Also yes Karchev is pretty badass his will is pretty strong but it will be interesting to see what happens when Asphyxious takes a crack at cracking him. Also as for the alliance when they saw the Cryx line had collapsed and that their warcasters were in disarray they sought to press an advantage not realizing the scope of the facility that existed on the mainland. They were badly outmanoueuvered and it is something that they will not soon forget.

The allied armies took a huge hit and also no thanks to Butcher whose combined force with Siege could have made a big difference.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

The first line of the Khador section is one of the best lines written on WM fiction, period.

IMO Goreshade (and Gaspy) are doing a Xanatos Gambit. The Shade manipulate Zekova and Vyros and there is no doubt both end up doing what Goreshade wanted.

Gaspy? Xanatos is a rookies next to him.

This is one of the things that always irks me about Cryx. There are never any real set backs. No sooner does something good happen for a faction (any of them) then Mr. Sinister steps out of the shadows and says "everything is proceeding according to plan"

[AJ the Ronin]

This is one of the things that always irks me about Cryx. There are never any real set backs. No sooner does something good happen for a faction (any of them) then Mr. Sinister steps out of the shadows and says "everything is proceeding according to plan"

Sad thing is that Dirty D actions and reasons are sound. It would have being cool to see the villians wins because they act smartly instead because they are suppose to be so smart that, like you say, everything is proceeds according to plan.

[dkvoe]

Here are my quick thoughts that I had previously posted elsewhere...

Looks like Haley's warcaster disease may be incurable.*

Kreoss was BAD. ***. in this book. He made my Khadoran heart proud, even though he is a traitor to the motherland.*

Oooooohhh... Feora's in troubleeee.*

Lich Lords are catty little high school girls.*

Goreshade going home?

I still can't make myself care about Ios.*

Thomas Ketchum. Potential character pistol wraith?

I guess the rumored Menoth light cav is going to be Idrians.*

People thought Karchev would go Cryx? Not likely. I love that his anger overpowers his horniness.*

Butcher. Yup. Still Crazy. More dead winterguard by his hand. And apparently an accidental hand amputation for that poor Kovnik. He is actually so far gone that the sound of the tormented souls in doomreaver blades sing him to sleep.*

Indiana Jones reference in the Ret fluff! Awesome!

A solid explanation for why the winter guard appear to be looking away from the Empress in the Conquest parade art. I think I'm the only person who noticed this and was bothered by it.*

A solid explanation of the Conquest's big gun having two barrels and rof 1.*

[Octavius_Maximus]

I dislike that as well, i saw a brilliant quote once on a forum about it. Basically imagining the end of a Warhammer 40k book.

"And so the Chaos repulsive class Cruiser falls from the sky, circling in the gravity well and landing onto the planet, killing all of its Tzeentchian Crew, thousands of loyal followers, Sorcerors, and hundreds of near irreplaceable marines. A terrible set back for chaos as a whole.

Nearby, Tzeenchian Sorcerer Harker leans back, steeples his fingers, and says "Yes....all according to plan."

I mean it makes it seem futile when you have the greatest Strategic mind in the world and his primary army, allied to his sworn enemy and the largest, most well equipped faction in the world, arriving early through magic trickery (By WEEKS), attacking while there are no less than 10(!!) Warcasters present.

No matter what kind of doom fortress is there, and what kind of reinforcements they have, there is no way such a force should lose. It has the combined arms equivalent of a re loadable tactical nuclear strike with a Sharpened Nokia at the tip.

[AJ the Ronin]

Yet Axphyxious, that spend most of the book on an acid (soul?) trip, make them retreat with their collective tails between their legs.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

Khador made the greatest error of all: they tied their fluff to Cygnar and Stryker. No one associated with Stryker can "win" under their own initive. Magical third party intervention only.

[leo_neil316]

Khador made the greatest error of all: they tied their fluff to Cygnar and Stryker. No one associated with Stryker can "win" under their own initive. Magical third party intervention only.

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll still manage to win when they turn on us. I mean Supreme Kommander 'Sure we're allies so that means I get to have people report on everything you do but I don't have to even tell you how many dudes I have. Even alittle.' Irusk isn't even being subtle about it.

God I wish Kara had just taken that shot.

EDIT: Also, irony for the Khadorans being 'Oh noes! Look at all the poor people dying horribly! We didn't want everyone to die!'

From the guys who killed everyone in Riversmeet JUST TO PROVE A POINT. Hell, Cryx have a better reason for killing everyone in Point Bourne! Which they did.

Oh and I did love that whole bit about how the folks in the military quarter were almost out of food already. So much for those assurances that it wasn't as bad as it seemed!

[Khador247]

I loved the story in this book. The scope of this one was HUGE. As a Khador guy I was glad to see Butcher and Sorscha back. Butcher was epic badass in this book. I loved his reaction to seeing Khador soldiers working with Cygnar and the ensuing battle with Siege. Khador still doesn't have Karchev back unfortuantely but when we do finally get him back he'll have to be getting a new body which should translate into the game. Asphyxious outsmarted himself by keeping Karchev alive. He's going to regret that.

Possible new in-game characters for Khador...the young warcaster and the character Drakhun.

[MathPasta]

The problem in Warmachine is that no faction may have a permanents MEANINGFUL loss or Victory.

Sure one side may conquer a chunk of another but no faction will end up loosing because it will upset those that like the faction.

[Drzombieface]

The final fight in the Thornwood stroked my e-peen as a Cryx player.

For Asphyxious to strike that much fear in the hearts of battle- tested leaders, NNGGGGH, so good.


I think the biggest reason why the allied forces were caught off guard, is not because they didn't know that Asphyxious had reinforcements, I'm sure they thought that, but more like they didn't realize the scope of just how much of an army he had in the Necrofactorium. 6 Krakens, countless thralls, tons of helljacks and bonejacks. Plus the rising of the Necrofactorium had to have some additional moral effect on the soldiers.

They were blindsided by a huge force that I don't think they were prepared for.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

Quite a bit that happened in the book was most definitely not according to Asphyxious' plan. He quite clearly had not intended to have the battle at his HQ at this time, and his initial plan involved getting Venethrax's athanc onto a ship at Point Bourne. Everything that happened after that was an adaptation, which he is quite good at. It is erroneously dismissive to the actual plot to be speaking about Xanatos Gambits. Asphyxious did manipulate Deneghra in order to send misleading information to Malathrax, whom he knew was watching, but it is most certainly not the case that everything has gone according to plan. The same is also true for Goreshade. Goreshade clearly intended: 1) to kill Nyssor in Legends; 2) to recover Nyssor and then subsequently destroy him when he had the leisure to find a better way to do so, in Wrath. Both Asphyxious and Goreshade have had to adapt to changing circumstances and setbacks and are most certainly not operating according to original plans. Indeed, they are well past secondary plans and onto tertiary ones. That said, both are also quite excellent schemers and have never placed all their eggs in one basket. Asphyxious had been building his power base in the Thornwood for some time, and clearly felt up to the task of defending it against the invading armies, even if this attack took place earlier than intended. Similarly, Goreshade appears to have a contingency up his sleeves related to Nyssor being returned to Ios; we can expect this is far from the preferred option. In both cases each of these characters would have preferred that things had gone otherwise.

Indeed, I think it's worth noting there is some deliberate irony in the ending of Legends where we had Asphyxious basically stating the "everything is going as intended" line to Goreshade, since in that circumstance quite clearly both of them are lying. Asphyxious had just recently failed in his attempted Apotheosis at the Temple Garrodh and was forced to switch to a different and longer term plan involving consolidating his power base as the manufacturing hub on the mainland, while Goreshade had just failed in his attempt to kill Nyssor but was busy pretending that the recovery of Voass, Nyssor's sword, was his objective all along. Both of them are putting on fronts to appear to be entirely cooperate agents in the Cryxian Empire while coming up with new plans to recover from setbacks from the failures of their previous plans.

In no respect are these cases of pretending the characters are omniscient and back-justifying what they have been doing to pretend like their setbacks were intentional. I understand it is difficult at times to keep this in mind when dealing with Asphyxious in particular, since he is indeed quite masterful at manipulation and orchestrating complex plots. But it is quite false that he has perfectly orchestrated everything to go just as he had hoped. Were that the case, he would presently be a god having empowered himself on all the Menite souls in Urcaen. Alternately, in the more recent timeline, he would presently be getting a courier from Toruk congratulating him on having so smoothly delivered Venethrax and his athanc back to the main island. Asphyxious legitimately outmaneuvered his enemies in Colossals, both by being better prepared at his Thornwood base than anyone had anticipated, and also by rather cruelly misleading Deneghra so she could assist in his efforts to simultaneously mislead Malathrax's spies as well as position the allied enemies properly for his final attack. Nicely done on his part, I think, but he clearly would have preferred if that battle wasn't happening at all and that he could have saved that maneuver for later. Far better to destroy your enemies far afield and with your reserves intact than to put your main HQ in peril. This is most certainly not a case of "Everything is going according to plan..."

Indeed, Mortenebra is probably upset that he has already wrecked some of the Krakens she worked so hard to produce.

[bouncymischa]

Indeed, I think it's worth noting there is some deliberate irony in the ending of Legends where we had Asphyxious basically stating the "everything is going as intended" line to Goreshade, since in that circumstance quite clearly both of them are lying. Asphyxious had just recently failed in his attempted Apotheosis at the Temple Garrodh and was forced to switch to a different and longer term plan involving consolidating his power base as the manufacturing hub on the mainland, while Goreshade had just failed in his attempt to kill Nyssor but was busy pretending that the recovery of Voass, Nyssor's sword, was his objective all along. Both of them are putting on fronts to appear to be entirely cooperate agents in the Cryxian Empire while coming up with new plans to recover from setbacks from the failures of their previous plans.

Now I want to re-read that section, if only because I can imagine both of them laughing heartily and patting each other on the back about how great things are going, while cringing inwardly about how badly their plots have been going. X3

[Drzombieface]

Indeed, Mortenebra is probably upset that he has already wrecked some of the Krakens she worked so hard to produce.

The master speaks!

It was for a worthy cause, though.


I doubt she'd have any ground to dispute Asphyxious on the use of the Krakens in defending the Necrofactorium from not one, but two oncoming forces. I'd always suspected Asphyxious and Goreshade alike were just making everyone think they were omniscient. Though it's nice to see clearer insight to it.

[PG_Shadow37]

I find it funny that every piece of Cygnar fluff I read I imagine Nemo doing a facepalm at the begining of each story. That guy needs a vacation

[PG_Draxos]

On the note of Butcher and Siege, who do you think is gonna come save the day? Also I kinda wish that butcher had gone down into the hole where he found some Cryxians since that would have been awesome.

[Tiran]

Gotta say, I was fairly disappointed with the storyline here, it did suffer from the issues that constantly plague the Warmachine story (the same issues that plague Warhammer/40k and many White Wolf RPG lines also.)

The game doesn't have to be grimdark, you really can be different if you want. Sure, some impending darkness is great for building up tension but it is important to have some degree of balance, unless you let the heroes have some important victories they simply fail to be heroes. Take Irusk for example, you can write all you like about him being a genius tactician, but then he makes several truly idiotic moves when we have chances to see him in action and it all seems wrong...
Consider also that most people's most frequent exposure to these characters comes from playing the game. It is fairly deep seated in all our minds that 1v1 duals between casters are pretty fair, to suddenly turn that around and try to claim that 10v4, when the 10 manage a surprise attack and are prepared and armed with the best their factions can offer ends in a rout for their side, it seems to paint in broad strokes that these champions you try to build up are incompetent.

Now I don't actually play any of the three factions here, if anything my faction saw upsides most of the way through the book, so I'd try to claim an avoidance of faction bias but it really did seem weak to me to have Cryx win so easily.

I won't address my biggest problem with the overarching story here, being the statement that characters with models will never be killed off, but I do hope we can get off this kick and make the wars feel like wars, rather than predetermined kerb stomping. I read what Doug has to say above, I realise it wasn't all as Asphyxious planned, but to me that makes it worse. If an overwhelming force with the best leadership humanity can muster gets so utterly destroyed when Asphyxious plan fails, what's the point? You're killing my interest in the fluff here!


If anyone feels I've taken aspects of this wrong, I'd love to see other peoples readings of the situation.

[jandrese]

I'm waiting for eeButcher to be a straight up Doomreaver caster. His regular epic form is bad enough with its random focus, but the double epic form could be even crazier. Stuff like: All advances must be toward an enemy model. If an enemy model is chargeable at the start of the Butcher's activation and there are no damaging or debuffing effects between the Butcher and the enemy, the Butcher must charge it. Maybe he'll get Teleport on his spell list as a consolation. Maybe Vortex of Destruction too, just because.

[Sharp-kun]

My thoughts on the future, some more possible than others:

- This is a wakeup call for Cygnar and Khador. Cryx having such a stronghold being hidden from them should come as a shock along with the massive casualties.

- An actual alliance is formalised for now with the goal being a prologned campaign to drive Cryx out of the mainland.

- During this we can see some form of limited tech exchange - new models ahoy!

- Butcher is unahppy with this, and combined with the Empress blaming him at least in part for what happened in the Thornwood goes rogue with his goal to restore the Motherland thats fallen in his eyes due to the new alliance. (New Merc / Khador Ally caster with a theme force allowing Doomies! Maybe a bit too close to Magnus' plot though).

- During this Magnus sits back and waits. Eventually once Cygnar have been weaked enough from prolonged fighting he launches an attack on Caspia using his shiny new Galleons and Bart's force. At this point the alliance with Khador falters, the empress not wanting to get invovled / trying to take advantage of this.

- More stuff happens. :P

to suddenly turn that around and try to claim that 10v4, when the 10 manage a surprise attack and are prepared and armed with the best their factions can offer ends in a rout for their side, it seems to paint in broad strokes that these champions you try to build up are incompetent.

I'd disagree here. It all comes down to one massive intelligence failure in that no one knew how much Cryx had built up in the Thornwood and I think Cygnar/Khador realising that is going to change things.

Also 10 v 4 isn't quite as good odds when you're attacking an entrenched enemy who's force numerically outnumbers you, even though you have more main characters. The attack was never going to succeed. Had they won on the surface there would still have been all the stuff underground to clear.

[Rapier]

I'd like to play more games of warmachine balanced around mis-matched casters. The very first story in Warmachine Prime Mk2 is a 2v1 (Stryker and Caine vs The High Reclaimer). Frequently (and sensibly) the force with the upper-hand has it because Warcasters are so amazing.

I seem to recall PP saying a long time ago that a character could die in the fluff and be kept in the game - this has yet to come to pass. I'm not sure if they really should just kill people off though - it's acceptable to me to keep the characters alive because they're larger than life. You don't have to have frequent deaths to make a story believable. (The game already goes out of its way to present warcaster armour as impervious - it's far better in the fluff than the game). They also have resurrection in the setting - not just hey you're undead now but full on resurrection (See Harbinger) - anyone familiar with the rpg fluff will also be aware that this is offered by Morrow and Thamar as well.

I'm really more interested in the long term impact of an alliance - Llael isn't exactly going to be down with that. Will Ord suddenly feel like the big bruisers on either side of it are now looking in?

I really want to know when the first cross-faction warcaster will come. Magnus the Warlord (Merc/Skorne) and Constance Blaze begins to set it up (Cygnar/Merc); but I could easily see Goreshade being Ret/Cryx. I had thought we'd get eKarchev becoming Cryx or Cryx/Khador but it seems unlikely now.

This may also open up a new rule on allies. Say a theme force that represents allies between Cygnar and Khador working together (Either of X Warcaster leading a force that has some units from each side). Again this is shown with some theme forces already (Highborn getting gunmages, magnus getting Cygnar units) - I've been waiting for Magnus the Warlord theme force that does Skorne units with Merceanry Warjacks (these units count as friendly Mercs for the sake of this theme force).

Of course the balance would have to be carefully done - that's why I think it would be theme forces and not full blown rules for combined armies. Though units that can be allied to Khador or Cygnar (so can be counted as friendly faction models for either) may start to appear.

[leo_neil316]

Consider also that most people's most frequent exposure to these characters comes from playing the game. It is fairly deep seated in all our minds that 1v1 duals between casters are pretty fair, to suddenly turn that around and try to claim that 10v4, when the 10 manage a surprise attack and are prepared and armed with the best their factions can offer ends in a rout for their side, it seems to paint in broad strokes that these champions you try to build up are incompetent.

I'm beginning to think that I'm the only person who noticed that once the necrofactorium raised up.....

1) Those 4 Cryx casters were essentially sitting on infinite focus. I mean, I doubt we'll get an exact count. But we're talking easilly 2,500 soul tokens each.

2) There were automated defences that were (a) Killing huge swathes of troops. (b) INSTANTLY TURNING THOSE TROOPS INTO THRALLS.

3) It's a concentration of force thing. The allies go from having commited three of their five colossals to having lost two of their five, one damaged and facing four enemy colossals that're mostly unhurt. Plus an entire new wave of troops and jacks.

4) Nemo take a look at Gaspy and recognises that he's as buff as he was at Garrodh. I.E. Currently unkillable. Which means every second they stay in the fight is a second that Gaspy can be taking out warcasters. By himself. With no way to stop him except leaving.

[Blackraine]

I do kind of wonder what Goreshade's long term plan is. All I can think of is maybe he's pursuing a different path to godhood than Asphyxious. Nyssor apparently knows how to cure Scyrah, but already used most of his power to create a "cure" that the Iosans didn't want anything to do with, since they distrusted the Nyss. Perhaps Goreshade is going to force the issue by bringing Nyssor himself to Scyrah, getting him to cure her (potentially at the cost of Nyssor's own life) and then somehow steal her power (probably by killing her) to ascend as the sole god of the Elves? I could see that, maybe...

[Skylifter]

Butcher. Yup. Still Crazy. More dead winterguard by his hand. And apparently an accidental hand amputation for that poor Kovnik. He is actually so far gone that the sound of the tormented souls in doomreaver blades sing him to sleep.*

A solid explanation for why the winter guard appear to be looking away from the Empress in the Conquest parade art. I think I'm the only person who noticed this and was bothered by it.*

I noticed the bit about the Winter Guard looking away, too, and I was bothered as well. And just like you, I liked the explanation. As for Butcher... Butcher just simply remains utterly awesome. "How much did they pay you to betray the motherland?!" was just one of the coolest moments in the whole book. Closely followed by "Orders. I promised the Empress that I would follow orders."

[Drzombieface]

I'm beginning to think that I'm the only person who noticed that once the necrofactorium raised up.....

1) Those 4 Cryx casters were essentially sitting on infinite focus. I mean, I doubt we'll get an exact count. But we're talking easilly 2,500 soul tokens each.

2) There were automated defences that were (a) Killing huge swathes of troops. (b) INSTANTLY TURNING THOSE TROOPS INTO THRALLS.

3) It's a concentration of force thing. The allies go from having commited three of their five colossals to having lost two of their five, one damaged and facing four enemy colossals that're mostly unhurt. Plus an entire new wave of troops and jacks.

4) Nemo take a look at Gaspy and recognises that he's as buff as he was at Garrodh. I.E. Currently unkillable. Which means every second they stay in the fight is a second that Gaspy can be taking out warcasters. By himself. With no way to stop him except leaving.

Yeah, this is where we see Gaspy3's Feat actually come into play in the fluff. He's so engorged on souls that attacks are literally doing nothing to him.



The main reason why Cygnar and Khador lost here was, they simply had no idea exactly what they were dealing with. Asphyxious had been working in secret, even from the other Lich Lords, and only he, Mortenebra, and maybe Denny, knew exactly what his amassed forces were capable of. True, there were a metric crap- ton of Cygnar and Khador warcasters there, but the sheer amount of Cryx that poured out of the Necrofactorium was too much for even them to handle. They just weren't prepared for it, and Asphyxious overwhelmed them.

[Drzombieface]

I do kind of wonder what Goreshade's long term plan is. All I can think of is maybe he's pursuing a different path to godhood than Asphyxious. Nyssor apparently knows how to cure Scyrah, but already used most of his power to create a "cure" that the Iosans didn't want anything to do with, since they distrusted the Nyss. Perhaps Goreshade is going to force the issue by bringing Nyssor himself to Scyrah, getting him to cure her (potentially at the cost of Nyssor's own life) and then somehow steal her power (probably by killing her) to ascend as the sole god of the Elves? I could see that, maybe...

Goreshade's long term plan was always to save his people from being soulless monsters, although his methods were a tad, "unorthodox". He's using Cryx as a way to have access to the resources he needs to accomplish this goal.

[bouncymischa]

I do kind of wonder what Goreshade's long term plan is. All I can think of is maybe he's pursuing a different path to godhood than Asphyxious. Nyssor apparently knows how to cure Scyrah, but already used most of his power to create a "cure" that the Iosans didn't want anything to do with, since they distrusted the Nyss. Perhaps Goreshade is going to force the issue by bringing Nyssor himself to Scyrah, getting him to cure her (potentially at the cost of Nyssor's own life) and then somehow steal her power (probably by killing her) to ascend as the sole god of the Elves? I could see that, maybe...

From what Goreshade said in Legends, his long-term goal appears to be to "save" the elves by killing their gods (apparently believing that their continued presence on Caen is the cause of the issues plaguing the elves). He discovered in Legends that killing Nyssor would be a lot more difficult and time-intensive than he'd expected (even with Voass), and thus retreated to try to find a way to get ahold of Nyssor's sarcophagus for himself so that he could take the time to kill Nyssor. Now with Nyssor in Iosan hands, he appears to have revised his plans to giving the elves the tools to free Nyssor, in the hopes that they'll put Nyssor and Scyrah in close proximity, and he'll be able to use his own methods to get into Ios to kill them both while they're still weakened.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

I do kind of wonder what Goreshade's long term plan is. All I can think of is maybe he's pursuing a different path to godhood than Asphyxious. Nyssor apparently knows how to cure Scyrah, but already used most of his power to create a "cure" that the Iosans didn't want anything to do with, since they distrusted the Nyss. Perhaps Goreshade is going to force the issue by bringing Nyssor himself to Scyrah, getting him to cure her (potentially at the cost of Nyssor's own life) and then somehow steal her power (probably by killing her) to ascend as the sole god of the Elves? I could see that, maybe...

Goreshade's plan was spelled out in either the Cryx force book or Wrath. It's simple. Kill both Nyssor and Scyrah. With no gods the Iosians will have none of the issues associated with dead or diseased gods.

[Drzombieface]

Goreshade's plan was spelled out in either the Cryx force book or Wrath. It's simple. Kill both Nyssor and Scyrah. With no gods the Iosians will have none of the issues associated with dead or diseased gods.

More simply put, he's trying to purify the elves.

[FearLord]

Goreshade is doing something rather complicated to the Retribution, he has monologued his way into telling them everything that he has done for them so far. It's hard to say whether he is simple, or complicated. Is he just an evil mistachioed monologuing bad guy? Or is he revealing all for some purpose? I have a feeling that Zerkova is one of the kinds of characters who could outplay him, she has many tricks up her massive sleeves and under her hat, so whether she ends up giving him the Flashlight of Maguffin or tries to capture him and force him to do it, it is yet to be seen.

I'm fairly sure, based on what Goreshade's plan was in the Cryx section (to have the Retribution bring the Torch into Ios so it wouldn't be detected as he entered with it) that the torch was in Zerkova's wagon that Vyros's forces captured at the end of the Retribution section. That was the whole reason Goreshade ambushes Vyros and talks about the torch...

Ultimately, Goreshade's plan is now to enter Ios (which would have been his long term goal anyway, since he would have had to go there to kill Scyrah) and kill both Gods. The Retribution are now in possession of Nyssor and the tool to allow Goreshade to kill him, given time and opportunity...

As far as the main plot goes, the alliance was interesting, but I'm not sure how Cygnar and Khador could actually resume their war without sweeping Cryx from the mainland now they know the scope of the problem...

[DegenCutter]

Frankly, I'm starting to find both Dragon factions (Cryx and Legion) a little insufferable as they seem to continually be succeeding at just about everything they try. We've gone a little beyond needing to show the bad guys as competent at this point. I'm starting to wonder why everyone who isn't directly connected to one of the dragon factions is still around and kicking at all . . . Why not just be done with it and have Legion v. Cryx fighting over an apocalyptic wasteland. I'm not particularly impressed with the direction the story line has been going. I'd really like to see Legion and Cryx both take some real and lasting butt-kickings in the VERY near future.

Keep in mind I say this as someone who plays every damn faction, so I feel like I'm about as impartial as its possible to be. I'm just a little sick of the love being heaped on the dragon factions. It's cloying.

[FearLord]

It is fairly deep seated in all our minds that 1v1 duals between casters are pretty fair, to suddenly turn that around and try to claim that 10v4, when the 10 manage a surprise attack and are prepared and armed with the best their factions can offer ends in a rout for their side, it seems to paint in broad strokes that these champions you try to build up are incompetent.

If anyone feels I've taken aspects of this wrong, I'd love to see other peoples readings of the situation.

A surprise attack would imply that Cryx did not know they were coming - actually, they not only knew they were coming, they lured them there. If any one was taken by surprise, it was Cygnar and Khador who were facing a much bigger Cryxian threat than they realised or even imagined - not just the sheer scope of the underground operation he was running but 6 Colossals (more than the allies even had managed to produce together)...

[FearLord]

I find it funny that every piece of Cygnar fluff I read I imagine Nemo doing a facepalm at the begining of each story. That guy needs a vacation

I picture him a little like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon - "I'm getting to old for this ****"

[Drzombieface]

Frankly, I'm starting to find both Dragon factions (Cryx and Legion) a little insufferable as they seem to continually be succeeding at just about everything they try.

Everblight's lost his physical body, and has been this way for a while now.


Venethrax's caravan carrying the Athanc is delayed, and could be attacked, so Toruk hasn't gotten that.

Just from those two factors, I wouldn't say either of them have everything going right all of the time. Yes, Cryx seems to be overpowering the forces on the mainland, but that's why everyone is starting to team up against them.

[Khador247]

I'm curious to see Goreshade's plan to get into Ios and retrieve/destroy Nyssor. That ought to be good. I didn't like that Vyros hogged all of the credit for retrieving Nyssor. He was an important part of it to be sure but Ossyan did most of the dirty work.

I still want to know what Deneghra owes to the Old Witch for obtaining the information that led to them finding the athanc. We know how much those athancs mean to Toruk so whatever Deneghra owes it is going to be big.

I can't wait to read the continuation of this story. With all of those dead Cygnarans, Khadorans and Mercs in the Thornwood Cryx should be able to replace all of those thralls that they lost and then some probably.

So many moving pieces to this puzzle. Great stuff Doug.

[bouncymischa]

I didn't like that Vyros hogged all of the credit for retrieving Nyssor. He was an important part of it to be sure but Ossyan did most of the dirty work.

I had to smile at the fact that Ossyan's efforts were mentioned in eVyros' fluff -- it seemed like an acknowledgement from Privateer that "Yes, we all know Ossyan did all the real work in finding Nyssor and recovering him. Vyros is just a manipulative politician that's pandering to the Iosan mob, presenting himself as a conquering hero to serve his own ends."

Sure, it'd be nice and just to see Ossyan get some acknowledgement, but admittedly it's probably far more realistic that Vyros would swoop in to hog all the glory. If anything, it just reinforces the fact that he's a jerk. X3

[Errant_knight]

I was really hoping for more from the Kroess/Daminao/Terminus fight. Wrath left it on such a huge cliffhanger and I really thought that there was going to be some sweet warcaster on warcaster on warcaster violence. However It seems that Severius doesn't think he's going to be around much longer and I wonder if that means the Protectorate will be going into a civil war when he goes with Kreoss on one side and Feora on the other.

[Azuresun]

I did chuckle with Venethrax having no idea how screwed he probably was. "No, you run along Malanthrax, I've got this covered. I can handle a few measly dragonspawn easy enough."

[Warlordtheft]

True, there were a metric crap- ton of Cygnar and Khador warcasters there, but the sheer amount of Cryx that poured out of the Necrofactorium was too much for even them to handle. They just weren't prepared for it, and Asphyxious overwhelmed them.

And the kicker is they now have a crapton more raw materials, souls, bodies and scrapped jacks to rebuild everything that was lost.

Predictions:
1. Cygnar and Khador Alliance collapses due to accusations of not plling their wieght, as well as when Brisbane comes back wounded cause of the butcher. Of all the casters, Brisbane (the siege expert) could have caused the most problems.

2. Goreshade will be in Ios, killing elves.

3. Venethrax will loose the Anthac to Circle.

4. THornwood will be relabled Cryx territory and be a no go zone for both Cygnar and Khador.

??Where is Cain??