Colossals Fluff Discussion: Spoilers Alert

[DarkLegacy]

I did chuckle with Venethrax having no idea how screwed he probably was. "No, you run along Malanthrax, I've got this covered. I can handle a few measly dragonspawn easy enough."

I don't know. Venethrax is one of the few mortals/immortals to go hand-to-hand with a dragon and win.

[bouncymischa]

2. Goreshade will be in Ios, killing elves.

I just realized that the impending Skorne invasion is likely to cause enough chaos to help cover Goreshade's infiltration into Ios, maybe even give him the opening he's hoping for to attack Nyssor and Scyrah....

[Drzombieface]

I don't know. Venethrax is one of the few mortals/immortals to go hand-to-hand with a dragon and win.

Wasn't part of his fluff him actually going toe- to- toe with a Dragonspawn?

[KhisanthMagus]

The allies only lost because their resident Mary Sue was incapacitated! I'm sure Haley would have been able to turn the tide all by herself!

Snark aside, I don't really see this so much as Gaspy going "this was all to my design in the first place!" as him simply being the type of person to have contingencies for his contingencies. While he may have kicked the butts of the allies he had to play his biggest trump card to do so. Cryx can no longer hide how powerful it is on the main land, and this will just drive the mainland forces even more firmly into an alliance if they have any intelligence at all. Hopefully Vlad will be able to beat some reason into Severius' thick skull, or else kill him and have Kreoss effectively take over(he wouldn't become heirarch but his new job does make him the commander of the entire military of Sevvy dies). Kreoss may actually help Vlad convince Sevvy that Cryx is the real threat. An alliance of all 3 mainland powers + mercs could possibly even make Cryx hesitate. Plus now they know about the weapons on Gaspy's fortress, so they would probably know to sit back and bombard the place with Conquests and other very long range weapons, using other warjacks and colossals to protect them from retaliation. That way you either destroy the weapon emplacements or force Gaspy and Denegrah out from their infinite supply of souls.

[Scottl1]

Venethrax fought toe to toe with an injured dragon(who was injured by men and elves) in his fluff.

Cryx didn't do that well. Hell Terminus was injured by steelheads and then booked cause he was too constrained by his own or some dumb thing.

Venethrax is durdling around next to the athanc which might be what Everblight uses to make the archangel.

Gaspy has failed a lot.

Lich lords have been dying and yet no other faction has lost a leader.

Cryx are about to have a civil war if Terminus and Gaspy can't stop taking each others boyfriends.

[Philoclass]

"This kid is a gamer, he's baller, he's a player maker, and a shot caller and all he does is win"- Philoclass talking about Asphyxious.

On a more serious note, I really cant help feel sorry for Cygnar. I dont even play them as a faction, but I feel their fluff all they do is lose. I understand in the beginning they had the most to lose and it was easy for PP to make a story where they did lose, but now I would prefer either A. a significant win or B. they lose completely and become the merc nation or something (similar to the way they place). Heck that doesnt sound bad the lightening merc nation. Cygnars troubles are hard for me to fathom. We know Magnus is comming for them as well as Vinter, and Cryx. I really hope you guys write a story for Haley to get better, thats good as she is probably one of my favorite characters in the whole story and feels like she has the most human aspect of all the characters in the story.

I play Retribution and dont mind whats going on there. I kinda feel they are doing well for themselves on the battle field (not the elven condition). What I would like to see is PP break the mold of the elven condition, and make it so they arent a dying race they are a race thats competing for prominance.

[FearLord]

Lich lords have been dying and yet no other faction has lost a leader.

Which fluff have you been reading? They may not all be as important as a Lich Lord, but they are Leaders and some are probably more important - a few off the top of my head:

Cygnar:

Duke Cathmore - killed by Karchev during the fall of Northguard
Colonel Glowerby - killed by Irusk during the attack on Point Bourne
Colonel Thornby -killed by Thyra / Vinter's mercs
Major Eldon Runewood - killed by Thyra / Vinter's mercs

Protectorate:

Hierarch Voyle - killed by Stryker / Harbinger / Menoth
Grand Exemplar Bain Hurst - killed by Goreshade

Khador:

The ranking Greylord Kolden at Leryn whose name I forget and cannot be bothered to look up...
Vasko Durga the Kazyazy Administrator at Riversmet - taken by Reznick

Not all of these are especially important, but at the very least, Hierarch Voyle is more important than a single Lich Lord...

[Scottl1]

Venethrax fought toe to toe with an injured dragon(who was injured by men and elves) in his fluff.

Cryx didn't do that well. Hell Terminus was injured by steelheads and then booked cause he was too constrained by his own or some dumb thing.

Venethrax is durdling around next to the athanc which might be what Everblight uses to make the archangel.

Gaspy has failed a lot.

Lich lords have been dying and yet no other faction has lost a leader.

Cryx are about to have a civil war if Terminus and Gaspy can't stop taking each others boyfriends.

[Scottl1]

Which fluff have you been reading? They may not all be as important as a Lich Lord, but they are Leaders and some are probably more important - a few off the top of my head:

Cygnar:

Duke Cathmore - killed by Karchev during the fall of Northguard
Colonel Glowerby - killed by Irusk during the attack on Point Bourne
Colonel Thornby -killed by Thyra / Vinter's mercs
Major Eldon Runewood - killed by Thyra / Vinter's mercs

Protectorate:

Hierarch Voyle - killed by Stryker / Harbinger / Menoth
Grand Exemplar Bain Hurst - killed by Goreshade

Khador:

The ranking Greylord Kolden at Leryn whose name I forget and cannot be bothered to look up...
Vasko Durga the Kazyazy Administrator at Riversmet - taken by Reznick

Not all of these are especially important, but at the very least, Hierarch Voyle is more important than a single Lich Lord...

Morbus and Daemortus have died. Voyle is the only individual named that is as important as a lich lord and that was to pave the way for Harbinger. I think some have a glossed up view of the fluff. There aren't many as embarassing losses as Terminus had to a bunch steelheads.

[KhisanthMagus]

Morbus and Daemortus have died. Voyle is the only individual named that is as important as a lich lord and that was to pave the way for Harbinger. I think some have a glossed up view of the fluff. There aren't many as embarassing losses as Terminus had to a bunch steelheads.

Terminus was fighting with a throw-away army vs most of the Exemplars from the Northern Crusade + a significant force of steelheads. Given the relatively puny army he had available(due to Gaspy not supplying him with reinforcements) it was inevitable that he would get overwhelmed by sheer numbers by going up against that.

[Drzombieface]

Terminus was fighting with a throw-away army vs most of the Exemplars from the Northern Crusade + a significant force of steelheads. Given the relatively puny army he had available(due to Gaspy not supplying him with reinforcements) it was inevitable that he would get overwhelmed by sheer numbers by going up against that.

Not to mention it was mostly standard Thralls vs. veteran Exemplars. The only thing Terminus had going for him was sheer numbers, but it eventually turned against him when he was flanked by the Venger detachment. Kreoss used this to push into Terminus himself, and Terminus became bogged down by all of the Mechanithralls around him, knew he was at a disadvantage, and flew away.

[Scottl1]

Terminus was fighting with a throw-away army vs most of the Exemplars from the Northern Crusade + a significant force of steelheads. Given the relatively puny army he had available(due to Gaspy not supplying him with reinforcements) it was inevitable that he would get overwhelmed by sheer numbers by going up against that.

The fight was Terminus flies in. He gets frustrated cause he can't move(too many mcthralls and steelheads). He gets poked by halberds(since apparently they had no issue with the mass of bodies) and then runs off upset. That had nothing to do with crusades or anything grand. He showed up and got chased off by steelheads. Thats pitiful.

[Drzombieface]

The fight was Terminus flies in. He gets frustrated cause he can't move(too many mcthralls and steelheads). He gets poked by halberds(since apparently they had no issue with the mass of bodies) and then runs off upset. That had nothing to do with crusades or anything grand. He showed up and got chased off by steelheads. Thats pitiful.

Kreoss was there too. Though the only reason they were able to push to Terminus was because the Venger reinforcements Kreoss sent for arrived and started plowing through Terminus' thralls, and while Kreoss and his cavalry were off doing that, the Steelheads were like LOL POKE POKE POKE SUP TERMINUS.

[PG_Draxos]

So I take it nobody noticed that they mentioned Rhulic Colossals since that hasn't been brought up.

[Drzombieface]

So I take it nobody noticed that they mentioned Rhulic Colossals since that hasn't been brought up.

It's been mentioned in several other places. A friend of mine brought it up at the LGS that the Merc/rhulic whatevers forums was all over it, but I haven't checked for myself.

[Breadsmith]

With the one mention of Khador Colossals not being Rhulic made, there's almost as much fluff to back up Broadsides Bart getting an epic version due to his new sword as there is a Rhulic Colossal.

One is an offhanded comment/thought, and the other is potentially a typo. Red Tide vs. Rip Tide

But Yay! Rhulic Colossals and an Epic Bart!

[DarkLegacy]

With the one mention of Khador Colossals not being Rhulic made, there's almost as much fluff to back up Broadsides Bart getting an epic version due to his new sword as there is a Rhulic Colossal.

One is an offhanded comment/thought, and the other is potentially a typo. Red Tide vs. Rip Tide

But Yay! Rhulic Colossals and an Epic Bart!

Um, what? Ossrum specifically mentions that the Khadoran colossals "lack the refinement and reliable efficiency of the Rhulic colossals". This is absolute proof that they exist. Page 116. It is right there.

[Bruan]

I loved the fluff in Colossals.

Complaint: As a guy that's spent a year in Afghanistan and Iraq, I missed a lot of NQs that covered huge portions of the story! I wish there was a fluff compendium... *sighs dreamily*

Anyhow, I love how Khador and Cygnar made alliances. Even Stryker, from his bitter-Apotheosis form was fighting alongside Irusk and Strakhov. Kraye's life was saved by Irusk, for pete's sake! ... I just wish I could see more. I am a little bummed that Cryx alone can stem the tide of the combined arms might of Khador and Cygnar.

A little fan-peeve, but I wish I could see more of the lesser known characters and warcasters. The testament was a big deal when he was rolling with the Harbinger, and so was Vilmon. He alone, as a Menoth follower stood up to Garrick Voyle. What about Caine and the investigation of Vinter's spawn?

As far as Khador is concerned, I love the focus on Khador. I love the fact that Karchev, despite being a million years old and mostly robot, has managed to resist Denny's advances! But what of the others? The Old Witch, the very soul of Khador? In the Cryx book, she scared the piss out of Denny. She also beat the piss out of Kreuger in another book.

Let's not forget about Menoth! Yes, Vindictus is grabbing Judicators. Feora is being sassy in Sul, Kreoss is riding horses around pretending to be Stryker before he went bad. Reznik? Has he been benched since Severius has taken over? What about Amon? Has he suffered, since the former Allegiant Heirarch has been killed?

TLDR: It's awesome. I'm just whining, since my favorite characters are soft and they're being left out. Publish a compendium, since i'm probably going to get sent to Afghanistan again, and I want a book I can use to keep up with the fluff.

[OldOneEye]

The final fight in the Thornwood stroked my e-peen as a Cryx player.

What? You can still feel that? I would've thought that Cryx's invulnerability to story failings would've rendered you insensate to such... intimate contact.

[Bruan]

ps - i feel like a rhulic colossal would be speed 4 and sheer awesome. boosted everything, auto murder within 2"

[Deadman]

The part where the Butcher leaps off the shoulder of his ruined juggernaut and cleaving two defenders to bits in two? swings was awesome. As was Lola cleaving through Siege's powerfield. I was giggling like a idiot. : )

[Bruan]

that made me upset. wish brisbane pushed him down a flight of stairs.

[Drakor]

Terminus rage quitting was pretty funny. Cygnar and Khador suffered from if its too good to be true it probably is, they thought there was only a small cryx army and they were horribly wrong.

[MathPasta]

that made me upset. wish brisbane pushed him down a flight of stairs.

That would have only made him angrier. Then the next Cleave would sunder the whole staircase in fifty.

[Drzombieface]

Terminus rage quitting was pretty funny. Cygnar and Khador suffered from if its too good to be true it probably is, they thought there was only a small cryx army and they were horribly wrong.

Yeah. He pulled a Half- Baked exit.

[bouncymischa]

Reznik? Has he been benched since Severius has taken over?

Reznik shows up in fine form in the Khador fluff in Wrath, showing up at a town Harkevich is helping rebuild in search of heretics. It even gets a brief mention in Wrath, when Kreoss and Severius discuss the things he saw there when deciding where to attack.

[darisus]

The part where the Butcher leaps off the shoulder of his ruined juggernaut and cleaving two defenders to bits in two? swings was awesome. As was Lola cleaving through Siege's powerfield. I was giggling like a idiot. : )

That's waht being a pow 16 weapon master with fury will get you... and i don't even play khador... Got to respect the mans hitting power with that axe, in game and in the fluff

p.s. Side note- I am on a butcher kick cause i just painted him up for my brother for his birthday...

[warlorddrax]

yay! Cryx wins!
i'm still giddy after reading that battle, it was pure AWESOME!!!

i'm also excited to hear more about Mortenebra... that little kernal that mr. Seacat posted earlier was pure gold.

as far as Venethrax goes, i bet that Everblight is going to give him a very tough fight until Terminus shows up with those reinforcements and saves him. its going to be a tug-of-war over that Athanc with the two dragon factions. just like Nyssor is getting passed around like a hot potato.

i would really like to see Cryx continue to win and show those living factions that having a pulse is way over-rated.

i'm also very curious about what happens to Karchev next... now that he is in the Thornwood fortress with both Deneghra and Asphyxious trying to break him... its only a matter of time (hopefully) until he breaks.

i would love to see Karchev as a Cryx caster... just as i would love to see Malanthrax as a Cryx caster...

[Bruan]

I hope Karchev is so upset by the whole ordeal he replaces his old body with a conquest.

Do any of you guys remember Darius getting his ear cut off by Skarre? I thought that was going to result in some epic-ness. Maybe SUPER-medium base darius.

[pridefall]

When people complain that the game is grimdark, I always tell them: "The fluff of WM/H is a traditional 4-act narrative progression. Right now, we're just stuck in act 3, where all the bad guys are apparently "winning" and it will take the combined might of the allied forces to set aside their differences, stop fighting each other, and prove that they deserve to live by any means necessary."

That's it. And, to put it another way, we're in the part of Lord of the Rings where Aragorn and co. are trying to get Rhohan, the Elves, and Gondor to cooperate with one another.

[Rapier]

I thought that Darius would go epic after losing that fight - but now I think it takes more than that to become epic. It used to be that losing your weapon or any kind of fight made you epic.

I think we might get Epic siege though since he's lost havoc.

Also with Seacat implying that more characters will lose their plot immunity in future - we may finally see the characters dying off. (Which is good because it opens up scope for new characters in the fluff). Although equally I'm not sure I want them to kill off characters really - classical war fiction doesn't actually kill off many characters despite horrendous casualties and the personalities of the IK are such that I think the setting might benefit from keeping all of them.

I won't mind which way they go with it for the sake of telling the story - I just hope they don't kill people off for the sake of it. (Also don't just kill one person off per faction to be fair - don't the story how it's meant to be regardless of the fact we have players with faction loyalty).

Karchev will go epic (Colossal) or die imo. Although I did hope that Katheryine Laddermore would turn up to kill him off - I also hope she gets some mention int he fluff her family is dying agian.

[Octavius_Maximus]

When people complain that the game is grimdark, I always tell them: "The fluff of WM/H is a traditional 4-act narrative progression. Right now, we're just stuck in act 3, where all the bad guys are apparently "winning" and it will take the combined might of the allied forces to set aside their differences, stop fighting each other, and prove that they deserve to live by any means necessary."

That's it. And, to put it another way, we're in the part of Lord of the Rings where Aragorn and co. are trying to get Rhohan, the Elves, and Gondor to cooperate with one another.

Theres a problem, though. I don't WANT the factions to settle their differences against the greater enemy, because thats high fantasy. Alliances are to use people, nothing more. Occasionally people may see common ground and give some quarter, but for the most part this should be a desperate war for greed, power, or a high minded knowledge of your way being the right one.

[Octavius_Maximus]

Weird Double post

[PG_shadowsword751]

A solid explanation for why the winter guard appear to be looking away from the Empress in the Conquest parade art. I think I'm the only person who noticed this and was bothered by it.*

I noticed that too when I first looked at the picture back at TempleCon. Darn military training.

[PG_frazerpenman]

I enjoyed that only Cygnar and Mercs respected there worker's rights during construction of the colossals.

It was good to see the Butcher in the story again though I wonder where he and siege are now. Kreoss also struck me again as one of the few decent folk in the protecterate questioning the need to continue the crusade against the living instead of the dead.

Was a little sad that the story ended in victory for the Cryx but I'm glad Cryx has become recognised as a threat rather than cackling villains in their lair.

Wonder what will become of the 2 character jacks (Nightmare and Torch) that have been scrapped in the fluff

[bouncymischa]

Theres a problem, though. I don't WANT the factions to settle their differences against the greater enemy, because thats high fantasy. Alliances are to use people, nothing more. Occasionally people may see common ground and give some quarter, but for the most part this should be a desperate war for greed, power, or a high minded knowledge of your way being the right one.

For all of its gritty steampunk aesthetics, though, Warmachine does have some of its roots in heroic fantasy, with its own noble heroes and despicable villains. Personally, I like those aspects of it. If I want to read cynical stories about desperate, meaningless wars and suffering, I'll just pick up a newspaper. :P

[KhisanthMagus]

Theres a problem, though. I don't WANT the factions to settle their differences against the greater enemy, because thats high fantasy. Alliances are to use people, nothing more. Occasionally people may see common ground and give some quarter, but for the most part this should be a desperate war for greed, power, or a high minded knowledge of your way being the right one.

Except that is an extremely short sighted attitude in the face of a force that wants to kill everything and turn you into mechanical zombies. We HAVE people thinking the way you want right now: Butcher and Sevvy prominently. While of course there are going to be frictions, keep in mind that all these characters we have grown to like do exist within a military structure(well, except Protectorate, who are in a military-theocratic structure), so when the top level people are smart enough to realize that this huge army that wants to kill everyone in the middle of the woods is a bad thing, they can order their subordinates to work together whether they like it or not. There will probably be frictions, and I doubt Butcher would be the only person going violent over it(although not quite to the degree he did), but in the end they are all military officers and will do what they are told. For the most part.

However, this isn't the kind of fiction where they become best buddies. They are allied with the full knowledge that if/when they kick cryx back off the main continent they are going to be turning on each other in a heart beat.

[Walter]

I'm not sure how fair it is to criticize Irusk for not being the genius he is advertised as. He's conquered Llael and captured Northguard. He also successfully invested Port Bourne, though that was overshadowed by other events.

Point is, he's delivered. He is, at heart, a maps and artillery guy. He's about war as science, delivery of force through optimal channels, that jazz. He takes the available intelligence, makes a plan and executes it.

In this instance, he was out of his element. He was not in sole command, having to work together with Cygnar. He was up against an enemy that he had no useful maps and reports on. In particular, with no useful supplies and the enemy more or less surrounding them, he had a time pressure that he wasn't used to.

Cryx's battle plan is also outrageous. It's straight up supervillainy, and it is totally outside of Irusk's experience. The final surprise Cryx has in store is simply impossible to replicate for the good guys. Imagine Irusk luring Stryker and Co. onward to the capitol of Khador, only for the Empress to reveal that his army was disposable, and her real army is below the battlefield tunneling up, and then releasing indoctrination cannons that take over the mind of Cygnaran soldiers and dye their uniforms red.

[Rapier]

For all of its gritty steampunk aesthetics, though, Warmachine does have some of its roots in heroic fantasy, with its own noble heroes and despicable villains. Personally, I like those aspects of it. If I want to read cynical stories about desperate, meaningless wars and suffering, I'll just pick up a newspaper. :P

This is exactly why I'm not sure that I want PP to kill characters off. At it's heart it's heroic fantasy or epic anime or various other similar allusions - killing characters off can be mature and moving in those things - over killing them will be monotonous. Even the characters I don't like and wouldn't mind being dead have value to people and a place in the setting.

If you view the narrative of something like the Lord of the Rings; as absurd as it is for only one member of the fellowship to die - it doesn't diminish the value of the story or make the sacrifices and story less moving. Classic epics such as Beowulf or the Odyssey don't as a rule kill off named characters or only rarely and for dramatic purpose.

I have no problem with the fluff of the Iron Kingdoms not killing off these pivotal characters because they're personalities and killing them off isn't necessary to make it believable to me. I don't for instance want Nemo to die of old age just for being old - it's not Heroic or characterful or meaningful.

Dying of old age his life's work unfinished (or finished) possibly, so that more pathos is built into it - or dying of old age because the writers feel his story is told but that his death will influence the story of other characters and/or the story of his nation would be acceptable to me.

Remember that essentially the stories of these nations are told through the views and writing of the characters. Losing Nemo will change the face of Cygnar - possibly destroying it as a technologically advancing nation since he is the Einstein genius of his generation, the whole feel of the nation and it's direction for new units and models may change with his death - it cannot just be for the sake of trying to be more gritty.

[darisus]

Here is a thought i have been having... Instead of character death what of character demotion? We have all seen characters go epic and get different abilities, what if they are setting up Hailey to get demoted? Instead of her being a warcaster what if she becomes a potent jack marshal instead, thanks to the poison. It would be a kind of cool character evolution similar to how Eiryss is now becoming a UA!


I think it would be fun to have a warcaster and a former warcaster turned jack marshal in the same list without having to go to 100 pts or whatever 2 caster format you want.