Kami-Kayazy (35pt pButcher List)

[Cayterpius]

Inspired by some of the new Khador models and still loving some of the old ones, I thought I'd tinker out a quick 35 pointer:

pButcher
~ Destroyer
~ Juggernaut
~ War Dog

10 Kayazy Assassins
~ Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators
Widowmakers

It's still missing 4 points by my count and I'm not 100% sure about the 'jacks or the Widowmakers to be honest.

Open to suggestions as well as any strategic advice (I'm thinking Assassins up the middle, Eliminators on the flanks, throw a spanner in the works and follow up with the Butcher's battlegroup).

[Esper]

I'd take Saxon Orrick for pathfinder, which will fill 2 pts out of your open 4. For the last 2pts, you could probably just take whatever solo you have on hand (manhunter, widomaker marksman, gorman, etc.).

[Cayterpius]

Reeeeeeeeeemiiiiixx!

pButcher
~ Destroyer
~ Juggernaut
~ War Dog

10 Kayazy Assassins
~ Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators
Fenris
Yuri

What do we think? Fluffy enough? Not enough ranged? I figure everything but the 'jacks moves fast enough to get axe to face so shooting isn't really necessary...

[etherya]

Fenris is a wast of points in this list, 'cause you mark him with a bigger target on the face (lack of stealth but the rest of you army has).

Try this:

System: Warmachine
Faction: Khador
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
The Butcher of Khardov (*6pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Yuri the Axe (3pts)

or if you want some pew pew, drop Yuri and the Dog for the Widowmakers.

[Gazzor1]

Love the army name. Is good to see so much variety with different casters.

I think that A&H is almost a necessity in the list. Having magic attacks on a unit of your choice is very nice. Even if not needed, +2 damage vs. a unit is almost like another half dice boost, bringing Holt up to a rather nice 2 MAT8 POW14 shots, plus the rest of your buffed damage.

I love me the doggy, but Yuri's a bit rubbish IMO.
Fenris made a nice reinforcement when I used him for that, but wasn't meaty enough to survive being used in normal deployment and advancing up.

Gaz

[Cayterpius]

Wow. Some solid suggestions there and no complaints about the Kayazy spam! Yay!

Thanks everyone.

I've been mulling over the weaknesses of the list and it really comes down to lack of range and magic weapons as you've noticed.

Now here's your chance to be creative - starting with the following:

pButcher
~ Destroyer
~ Juggernaut
~ War Dog

10 Kayazy Assassins
~ Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators

... what would you fill out the list with to 35 points and make it competitive/fun/solid?

As it is there's 8 points to play with although feel free to change up the jacks if you like.

[Iron Will]

Nothing wrong with Fenris being in the list, they should be to busy dealing with 15 Kayazy running/charing through there army to there Caster.....

[travisty]

The Butcher of Khardov (*6pts)
* Behemoth (13pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Fenris (5pts)

Plenty of ranged from Big B and difficult for the opponent to know which is more a threat: the mini-feating assassins, the 2 pairs of eliminators, fenris, or Big B's fists/guns? A&H + wardog instead of Fenris is another option too.

I've had success with Big B staying behind an assassin screen lobbing long shots (usually have Big B go first and advance to minimize the chances of deviating on the assassins). Eliminators going together up a flank (with fenris on the other) or even up the middle; though in this case, enemy focus will be in that area in hope of lucky deviations.

[Cayterpius]

Interesting comments and some great ideas I hadn't even thought of (how could I forget BigB?). Thanks to everyone that's chipped in!

I've settled on this 35pt list and will be buying/building/painting towards its completion:

pButcher
~ Destroyer
~ Juggernaut
~ War Dog

10 Kayazy Assassins
~ Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators
Widowmakers
Widowmaker Marksman
Orin Midwinter (...controversial?)

I feel it's a more balanced mix of stealth, range, magic and control shenanigans as well as being full of sneaky assassins. Not your usual Khador list I suppose but it revolves around the models I like and will be fun to play.

Any more comments/critiques/suggestions are most welcome! I'm very curious to see what everyone thinks of the final list as well as more ideas about how YOU would play a Kayazy heavy list of your very own.

[Iron Will]

pButcher


10 Kayazy Assassins
~ Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators

Are the first things in most of my lists. The way I play them is ram then down my opponents casters throat so they have to be dealt with.

[Cayterpius]

Tidied up a bit to keep in-faction as is my preference:

pButcher
~ Destroyer
~ Juggernaut
~ War Dog

10 Kayazy Assassins
~ Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators
Widowmakers
Greylord Ternion

I'd be really interested to hear what people thought of the list as is and what sort of tactics/strategy you'd employ to make the best of it. Strengths/weaknesses? Worst match ups?

Have at it folks ...

[Gazzor1]

Nothing like some theorymachine...

I run
Butcher
WarDog
Berserker
WG Deathstar - full trimmings
A&H
Gorman
1 x 2 Eliminators
10 Nyss + Valachev*
(*Replacing 2 Eliminators and 5 Demo Corps going forward).

We both have lots of infantry, but your force contains 1 3" AOE and 3 unboosted sprays. My force contains 3 3" AOEs and 12 sprays (+1-3 more if AOEs not taken).

I'd attempt to run Nyss as a DEF18 screen with WG shooting 3 rockets at your stealth guys. Presumably your first 3 guys will be clouded up?
Assuming that no kayazy die and run to engage the Nyss, the Nyss will Zephyr back 3" and shoot at the DEF17 Kayazy, killing 1 or 2 if I am lucky. I'll then follow up with lots of boosted sprays, killing kayazy on 12+ on 3 dice. I think that's over 40% hit rate. With 12 sprays should do some damage. If all goes horribly wrong, the Butcher runs back 10" to avoid assassination and lets my 20+ infantry try to grind down your hopefully much reduced infantry numbers. Butcher will also camp 5 FOC for ARM23 in case he cannot avoid any hits.

Not worried by widowmakers.
Greylords are incredibly squishy. I prefer A&H as they can dish out magic atacks anywhere with very little risk, with potential extra damage output (Harm spell) replacing cloud antics.

Just my 2 cents. Suffice to say that I think that you overly rely on melee and can be closed down by certain feats - Old Witch/ EHaley, or spells such as Hostile Ground, or covering fire templates and Reclaimer's soul storm(?) effects.

Anyway, good luck with it.

Gaz

[Gazzor1]

Hiya. Hope I didn't put you off with my comments, but you asked for strengths and weaknesses.

Suffice to say that after finding out that IF Pikemen are not as good as I hoped (No run + minifeat) the Nyss are going with Karchev (My 2nd list) and Butcher's getting the Kayazy + boss.

Gives me 2 points to spend. Can drop dog to get 2 Eliminators, but not liking this option. I like being able to tank at DEF19 with him. Hence I'll likely go with a Manhunter.

Cheers for the ideas.

Butcher
Wardog
Berserker
15 WG + Josef
11 Kayazy inc boss
2 Eliminators
Gorman diWulfe
Aiyana & Holt
Manhunter

Idea is that feat adds extra dice, whilst Fury adds extra melee damage, so I want to max out the number of dice/ models affected.

Gaz

[Cayterpius]

@Gaz, not at all mate, just a bit of real life getting in the way. Some interesting comments there and I will be looking at A&H more closely, that's for sure.

I know my list(s) need to be more varied and ideally I'd like to bash out a decent "take all comers" list that I'm happy with. My trouble is a preference for certain models over others purely from a fluff or aesthetic point of view. I suppose finding a balance between that and effectiveness on the tabletop is what I'm really aiming for.

Back to my list building ... in between work and stuff ... let you know what I come up with.

Thanks again.

[Gazzor1]

No probs matey. My net was down for 2.5 weeks as our cable company messed up our street's access box...

Anyway, much like Mr Toad (From Wind in the Willows), I've changed my list yet again. I've swapped out the Eliminators and Manhunter for the Great Bears. Awesome level of heavy killpower for a budget price. And with small bases they should be screenable vs. shooty lists.

Had Aiyana Harm an opposing Behemoth, feated with Butcher, shot 10 points off it with 2 blunderbus attacks and then wrecked it with just 3 attacks from two Great Bears. 4th attack then killed one of his comrades (Looking forward to Backswing getting errattaed soon)...

Thing I forgot to do was cast Fury on them first...
If Harm works, Fury cast, Butcher feats and if Gorman Rusts target if a 'jack, the Great Bears are putting out effectively 3 POW19 + 5D6 attacks and 3 POW 19 + 4D6 attacks on any jacks rusted, with 11" threat range. Might catch some opponents out.

Gaz