Llaelese Jacks

[Fuchikoma]

So, as far as I know, the Vaguard is our only example of a Llaelese constructed jack. Llael was said to have extrememly well constructed and finely crafted, yet expensive jacks. My questions are 1) Do you think we'll ever see another Llael jack, maybe a heavy? 2) Do you think Ashlynn will get a character jack?

[Coinlord]

Yes, the Vanguard is the only Llaelese jack we know of. If i remember from the guts and gears on it, a single senator from Llael was so insistent that they should not rely on Cygnar hand offs that he finally broke the bureaucratic and helped fund the construction of the Vanguard himself. Building one jack was such a huge hassle to the corrupted politicians that they had next to no inclination to repeat the experience.

Ashlynn has yet to get an epic incarnation. We have yet to get an actual ARGM. One step at a time.

[PG_Salix060907]

If I am remembering correctly, one piece of fluff stated that there were some Llael heavy warjacks at one point. I think that the article even mentioned that Ashlynn was in possession of some. But I may be incorrect.

[Fuchikoma]

If I am remembering correctly, one piece of fluff stated that there were some Llael heavy warjacks at one point. I think that the article even mentioned that Ashlynn was in possession of some. But I may be incorrect.

This would be excellent.

To Coinlord, yeah, as a proud owner and plyer of a tier 4 50 point Ashlynn force with 2 units of gun mages, and Epic Ashlynn and a unique ARGM or atleast a AMRG character unit like the Black 13th would be great.

[Themainmenoth]

Yes, the Vanguard is the only Llaelese jack we know of. If i remember from the guts and gears on it, a single senator from Llael was so insistent that they should not rely on Cygnar hand offs that he finally broke the bureaucratic and helped fund the construction of the Vanguard himself. Building one jack was such a huge hassle to the corrupted politicians that they had next to no inclination to repeat the experience.

Ashlynn has yet to get an epic incarnation. We have yet to get an actual ARGM. One step at a time.

quote from the fluff, "One of the Few Respected Llaelese Warjack designs to grace the battlefield," this is clearly PP covering their butts to make it so they could release another one. Is it going to be this year, no, Next year, maybe, the next 5 years, much more likely.

[PG_vytzka]

I don't think it's a huge stretch to imagine other weapon loadouts on the Vanguard chassis... not as big as a completely new heavy of course as that would take a lot more work to design. While league models aren't fully canon (despite at least one having made it to a published book), there was the Vanguard Duelist with the same weapons but Quick Draw and Riposte. And I'm still waiting for my Vanguard Gunslinger with two jack sized hand cannons

[HeadHunter]

Llael actually has some 'jacks remaining? I'd have expected that after Irusk was done there, it's a wonder that they have any remaining military assets, even in private hands. One would think Khador would have appropriated all of the materiel.

[PG_vytzka]

Yeah and the Resistance are using... what tech exactly?

[Gho5t]

I'd love to see Llael get more development models-wise. I'm sure there could be more 'jacks being in use by the Resistance somewhere in there...

[jwai]

What I'd like to see is a resculpt of the Vanguard that isn't so out of proportion and hunched over.

[maxxev]

What I'd like to see is a resculpt of the Vanguard that isn't so out of proportion and hunched over.

I like the vanguard's design actually i's sort of a "medium" jack, it's bigger than most lights (at least before the plastics) and has a few more boxes too. If you just mean a straighter up pose, then ok I can't disagree with that.

[WarlockFiretopMountain]

I like the Vanguard's pose. It looks like it's bent over and weary, leaning on its glaive.

quote from the fluff, "One of the Few Respected Llaelese Warjack designs to grace the battlefield,"

Maybe we could get an unrespected Llalese warjack, which always acts as Reinforcements, and brings a keg or something. And keeps knocking stuff over at the end of the episode.

As for Llalese models, I think a Black 13th unit would likely be based on the Three Musketeers.

[MagnustheJust]

What I'd like to see is a resculpt of the Vanguard that isn't so out of proportion and hunched over.

Search through Devilsquid's posts for his converted vanguard - it is fantastic...

And it looks even more imposing in person!!

[Defenstrator]

I'd love to see Llael get more development models-wise. I'm sure there could be more 'jacks being in use by the Resistance somewhere in there...

I would as well but every time there's new fluff the Resistence takes another body blow. The last free city is now infected with religious crazies, the rest is covered with Cryx and Khador. I don't see where the Resistence is going to set up shop, as the menites will certainly be against the unbelievers overly arming themselves.

I'm just waiting for the new allies Ashlynn talked about. I'm still wondering if Ashlynn has managed to convince Rhul that it has a dog in this fight.

[Bartacus]

Search through Devilsquid's posts for his converted vanguard - it is fantastic...

And it looks even more imposing in person!!

Do our own searches - you're getting lazy Magnus!!

[Themainmenoth]

I would as well but every time there's new fluff the Resistence takes another body blow. The last free city is now infected with religious crazies, the rest is covered with Cryx and Khador. I don't see where the Resistence is going to set up shop, as the menites will certainly be against the unbelievers overly arming themselves.

I'm just waiting for the new allies Ashlynn talked about. I'm still wondering if Ashlynn has managed to convince Rhul that it has a dog in this fight.

Is there fluff out there that says Ashlynn is a Marrowin? I would think she is, but haven't seen it. I like to think in my head that she could be converted to menoth's side! that would be epic! but it DOES say she has no love for menites (sad face).

[Themainmenoth]

Do our own searches - you're getting lazy Magnus!!

Magnus the Lazy! hahaha. i'm sorry, I don't know why that's so funny to me.

[Ashcans]

Is there fluff out there that says Ashlynn is a Marrowin? I would think she is, but haven't seen it. I like to think in my head that she could be converted to menoth's side! that would be epic! but it DOES say she has no love for menites (sad face).

I don't think that there is any particular fluff about Ashlynn's faith - I suspect that, like many people, she pays a lip service to whatever she was raised under (probably Morrowan, give the Highborne affiliation) but isn't really devout or fanatical. I have a hard time imagining that even if she worshipped Menoth she would throw in with the Protectorate (remember, not all Menites are part of the Protectorate). Her first commitment has always been to Llael, and as long as it looks like the Protectorate is planning to occupy instead of liberate, I think she'll be very wary (even hostile) to their advances.

[Ricky Racoon]

Howsabout this one? He's taller than any Merc heavy jack, excepting the Nomad's smokestack.

[MagnustheJust]

Do our own searches - you're getting lazy Magnus!!

C'mere a second...

>wet noodle backhand<


I have both seen that conversion in person, as well as the thread it was shown in... I was recommending OTHERS to go look for it!!

So there!!

>wet noodle forehand<


... that'll learn ya!!

[PG_Charwood]

As an aside, two Llaelese steamjacks have been mentioned in the fluff. One Warjack (The Vanguard) and one Light Laborjack (The Scullion). Maybe we'll see a retrofitted laborjack used by the reissitance at some point. But I'd definitely be down for a Llaelse heavy. For some reason I always imagine it looking vaguely like a Crusader heavy warjack, just with some sort of bladed weapon(s).

- Charwood

[MrGloverGlover]

If I wanted to read all the appropriate fluff, where should I be looking? I'll skim the Merc book obviously - where else?

[Heavygear]

According to the latest fluff the country previously kow as Llael is currently The United States of Vlad which sits inside the Confederate States of Menoth. I would say there will likely be no new Llaelese jacks.

I would expect Ord to maybe get a few considering the folks who make the Cortexes are now calling Ord home after having been driven out of Llael by the Greylords.

[Rollis]

I'm just waiting for the new allies Ashlynn talked about

Where is this from? I must've missed it somehow

[PG_vytzka]

If I wanted to read all the appropriate fluff, where should I be looking? I'll skim the Merc book obviously - where else?

These are mark I books so beware... but maybe you can find them for cheaps.

Escalation for invasion of Llael.

Superiority (which I personally haven't read but AFAIK) for establishment of the Highborn Covenant and introduction of Ashlynn d'Elyse.

Legends for the Protectorate Northern Crusade / La Resistance Jeanne d'Arc style teamup that couldn't possibly go wrong.

Summer Rampage 2009 docs that are literally impossible to find nowadays that mention General d'Elyse for the first time and potentially have more information except the impossible to find bit of course.

No Quarter 1 (?) for Ashlynn vs Boomhowler short story about who gets to hire the Piper

No Quarter 6 for Lit Fuse, an Ashlynn oriented scenario with a bit of a look at how the Resistance does things and how the lass isn't all about fun and kittens.

No Quarter 19 for a Gavyn Kyle article on Ashlynn and first sighting of that glorious picture we now have representing her in the FoW Mercs book (although the old one had a lot of charm as well).

There was also a Doug Seacat Insider-provided chart of canonical ages for characters floating around if you really must know how old she is.

[Ashcans]

According to the latest fluff the country previously kow as Llael is currently The United States of Vlad which sits inside the Confederate States of Menoth. I would say there will likely be no new Llaelese jacks.

I would expect Ord to maybe get a few considering the folks who make the Cortexes are now calling Ord home after having been driven out of Llael by the Greylords.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the occupied territory of Llael is in a position to be researching and producing new 'jack designs. I think what most people are talking about is that Privateer could release rules for more Llael jacks that already existed that we just haven't seen in the game before. Just like in Wrath, we got a new jack (the Rover) that fluffwise had been in service since 485 - technically it had been knocking around the Iron Kingdoms for decades, we just hadn't seen it talked our gotten rules for it. Not everything that is released is a new development (like the Colossals) sometimes it's just filling in previously omitted information.

I think that there is easily space to introduce a Llael-styled Heavy. It would be pretty simple to say that with the success of the Vanguard, they tried to produce a larger jack chasis (lets call it the Cavalier). They produced them in small quantities, but then Cygnar began upgrading their forces and dumping a ton of cheap Nomads into the market, and it became more cost-effective for Llael to simply buy those up. Ta-da, a new Llael jack with an explanation as to why we haven't seen them all over the place before.

[HeadHunter]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the occupied territory of Llael is in a position to be researching and producing new 'jack designs.

My point was that most of their existing hardware would have been destroyed during the invasion, or appropriated during the occupation. Considering that Khador is unlikely to want to use a Llalese 'jack design unless it's exceptional, chances are most Llalese military hardware was disassembled for its components or otherwise recycled.

No occupying army would leave warehouses or armories full of stuff they don't intend to use, because that carries the risk that it will be taken by partisans and insurgents.

[Themainmenoth]

My point was that most of their existing hardware would have been destroyed during the invasion, or appropriated during the occupation. Considering that Khador is unlikely to want to use a Llalese 'jack design unless it's exceptional, chances are most Llalese military hardware was disassembled for its components or otherwise recycled.

No occupying army would leave warehouses or armories full of stuff they don't intend to use, because that carries the risk that it will be taken by partisans and insurgents.

This is true, But it is also unlikely that every single Llalese Jack designer was killed in the invasion. This is even more true in an 'ever growing game like Warmachine. It can be easily explained that one of it's best minds got away, laid low for a long time, someone recognized him by face (likely Ashlynn for name sake) a convinced him to pull out his old designs, with what money she had, she had independent manufacturers build the warjack off his designs, there you go, It was made by a Llalese designer, It didn't already exist due to Llalese corrupt politics, and it explains how it came to be. In a game where everything has a fan of it, everything is fair game to grow upon. PP would not put such a story out on Llalese and Ashlynn, expecting people to like it and buy figures for it (which people have) and then say, Well they are no longer ever relevant again, sucks to be you. It's like Magic the Gathering taking out an entire creature type, despite it's low count. (oh you like to play using Giants? oh well were never releasing another one ever again) that would be bad business on something that will clearly make them money. Finally, for the record, The game comes first, fluff second. If they feel like making a Llalese jack for a game reason, then they'll find a way to have it make sense in the fluff.

[Themainmenoth]

On a side note, thinking it over, the designer would likely be a woman, since Llalese seems to mostly have a strong woman presence to it, as most of the mercs from there are women. (who isn't? the alchemist maybe?)

[Fuchikoma]

On a side note, thinking it over, the designer would likely be a woman, since Llalese seems to mostly have a strong woman presence to it, as most of the mercs from there are women. (who isn't? the alchemist maybe?)

The Ragman is not a woman.

[PG_vytzka]

No occupying army would leave warehouses or armories full of stuff they don't intend to use, because that carries the risk that it will be taken by partisans and insurgents.

That presumes it hasn't already been taken by partisans and insurgents.

[Ashcans]

My point was that most of their existing hardware would have been destroyed during the invasion, or appropriated during the occupation. Considering that Khador is unlikely to want to use a Llalese 'jack design unless it's exceptional, chances are most Llalese military hardware was disassembled for its components or otherwise recycled.

No occupying army would leave warehouses or armories full of stuff they don't intend to use, because that carries the risk that it will be taken by partisans and insurgents.

Well, for one thing we know that Khador is actually using Llaelese jacks designs and is maintaining at least some of their hardware and facilities - hence Zerkova being able to use Vanguards in her theme list. Granted that is currently limited to the Vanguard, but Khador seems like very practical thinkers. If they discovered a warehouse filled with dissambled Warjacks, would they just melt them all down for scrap metal, or assemble them, re-key the Cortexes for their own Warcasters?

They don't even need to be exceptional. Would Khador really turn down a hundred functional jacks? Even if they were mediocre in combat, they could be used as Laborjacks and make a big difference logistically.

And, as Vyztka said, there isn't any reason that the story couldn't simply be that Ashlynn (or other Resistance fighters) knew where the jacks were being kept and moved them before Khador could find them, so even if the facilities were wrecked a limited number would be in Resistance hands. Perhaps Ashlynn has been short on competent mechanics or useable factory space, and so hasn't been able to get them operational until now. If PP wants to put out a model, it's pretty trivial to construct a story to explain it.

[Ashcans]

Sorry, brower glitch double-posted for me.

[Themainmenoth]

Well, for one thing we know that Khador is actually using Llaelese jacks designs and is maintaining at least some of their hardware and facilities - hence Zerkova being able to use Vanguards in her theme list. Granted that is currently limited to the Vanguard, but Khador seems like very practical thinkers. If they discovered a warehouse filled with dissambled Warjacks, would they just melt them all down for scrap metal, or assemble them, re-key the Cortexes for their own Warcasters?

They don't even need to be exceptional. Would Khador really turn down a hundred functional jacks? Even if they were mediocre in combat, they could be used as Laborjacks and make a big difference logistically.

And, as Vyztka said, there isn't any reason that the story couldn't simply be that Ashlynn (or other Resistance fighters) knew where the jacks were being kept and moved them before Khador could find them, so even if the facilities were wrecked a limited number would be in Resistance hands. Perhaps Ashlynn has been short on competent mechanics or useable factory space, and so hasn't been able to get them operational until now. If PP wants to put out a model, it's pretty trivial to construct a story to explain it.

that's pretty much my point from earlier, If they want to make a model for the game, they'll do that first, then make it make sense later, and they'd never leave a closed end because half their fun is letting something always be possible.

[Defenstrator]

Where is this from? I must've missed it somehow

It's in NQ 19 Gavyn Kyle Files. (I think)