Colossals fluff as it pertains to Khador (contains spoilers!)

[Khador247]

First of all I just want to say that I thought the fluff in this book was awesome. The scope of the battle was truly impressive. This was the best story since Apotheosis in my opinion. Doug writes in such a way that I'm really able to visualize what is going on almost as though I'm there filming it. The fact that I know what the characters look like certainly doesn't hurt.

So what happened from the Khador perspective?

Irusk realized that he must ally with Cygnar to drive Cryx out of Point Bourne. Cryx planned to leave anyhow. They left behind enough of a force to lure the allies along. To help bait them further they allowed the Khadorans to see Karchev tied to a Leviathan just before it ran away. Strakhov wanted to go after them but Irusk knew it was a trap and did not take the bait. Irusk has a Karchev detector built by the Greylords. Somehow they took blood from what was left of his armor and are able to use magic to track him.

Asphyxious wants to break Karchev's will and use him as a weapon againt Khador. He tasked Deneghra with this assignment. She tortures him and tries to break him but she has learned that she can not break him. She wants Asphyxious to try but he has been otherwise occupied.

Sorscha is back. Nemo was waiting for his Colossals to be shipped via boat and Sorscha was blocking the way. Sorscha's forces battled Nemo's. During the battle Nemo learned of the cease fire and informed Sorscha. She received confirmation from her troops that the cease fire was in fact real.

Butcher is back as well and let's just say the information about the cease fire was a bit slower to reach him. He happens upon a camp of Winterguard and sees that they are colaborating with Cygnar. He assumes that they are traitors and proceeds to start hacking and slashing along with Fenris and some Doom Reavers. He has a very cool battle with Siege and just as he is about to finish Siege a Kovnik intervenes and shows Butcher an official letter about the cease fire. Butcher pulls his swing on Siege but still cut off the Kovnik's hand. Ooops. He still doesn't completely trust anyone and takes the Cygnarans prisoner.

Zerkova works with Goreshade and learns the location of Ossyan who has Nyssor and is trying to get him back to Ios. Zerkova is on her way to successfully retrieving Nyssor but then Vyros comes along and ruins everything. He defeats Goreshade's force first then Zerkova's and takes Nyssor back to Ios.

Vlad rushes to meet with Severius before Kreoss's army can intervene. At one point it looks as though he might kill Sevy but instead tries one last time to talk with him. We still don't know for certain what he intends to discuss but I'm pretty certain that he wants to ally against Cryx. I was hoping Vlad would do a bit more in this book but he's dealing with Menoth and I find Menoth to be rather un-interesting so that is probably my issue.

In the main event the allied forces of Khador and Cygnar along with some help from Ossrum and his Rhulic Mercs drive their way into the Thornwood and have a MAJOR battle with Cryx. Although they are winning the battle the allies suffer heavy losses. Then Asphyxious raises his subsurface fortress the Nefractorum I believe it is called. He also unleases six Krakens. Khador has two Conquests and Cygnar has two Stormwalls. In the end the allies grudgingly retreat. I was pretty surprised to see Cryx come out on top in this one but it was well done. It'll set up nicely for the next book.

As of the end Cryx still has Karchev btw. That was another surprise. I figured that would be resolved in this book. Maybe we'll get Epic Karcev in the next book. Squee! My expectation is that Strakhov and/or Irusk will rescue Karchev and he'll get a new warjack body but we shall see.

Well those are the Khador high points that I can recall off the top of my head. I read it a couple nights ago. Feel free to expand upon what I already talked about, correct any mistakes that I made, or bring up anything that I left out.

[mostholycerebus]

Awesome info for someone mildly interested in the fluff who wasnt going to buy the book soon anyway. Thanks!

Looking for Karchev in a Slayer chassis with the ability to Tow 6".

[ShockwaveIIC]

It was actually three Conquests, and a Junior warcaster was in charge of delivering them to Irusk (Which he did, with Ossrum's help).

The interesting thing is, there was no indication of the Behemoth. Unless it's with the Old Witch (Who doesn't get mentioned).....Though if it had been at the big battle, the Kraken's were "going to get hurt real bad(tm)"

[Alzer]

Agreed, the fluff in Colossals was pretty great, Cryx pulled the great-grandaddy of last-minute turnarounds (it IS Cryx I suppose).

I'm thinking Behemoth may make an appearance as part of whatever reinforcements bail Sorscha, Irusk, Strakhov, Karchev, Stryker, Nemo, Darius, Kraye and Haley out of dodge. Deathjack was notably present durring the battle, as was Thunderhead. So Avatar and Behemoth are waiting somethere in the works.

[Khador247]

It's hard to say about the Behemoth. He could have been somewhere else that was not even close to the Thornwood at the time. I'd like to see more about the Apotheosis unique jacks in the fluff. They generally don't do much. I can understand why in this book. We wouldn't want to upstage the colossals. Deathjack was briefly mentioned. I believe he was with the Witch Coven. Thunderhead took some damage. No mention of Behemoth or Avatar. Hey at least they had better days than Nightmare right?

[Sul-Menite]

Somewhere in khador another Sorscha Kratikoff has been created. My colossals book is still coming to me in the mail, but what you've told me makes me really excited (I'm happy to see my Ice Queen makes an appearance).

It was mentioned by someone who went to see Doug speak at PP's convention that the plot shield surrounding characters won't be as strong in the future as it was in the past. So I'm thinking instead of Karchev2 he might just die, (same with the other old men, Nemo and Severius)

Edit: Was Beast destroyed? I just want to know if that's why he isnt in Sorscha's new tier

[Khador247]

Edit: Was Beast destroyed? I just want to know if that's why he isnt in Sorscha's new tier

Beast 09 is not mentioned in Colossals.

[ShockwaveIIC]

Hey at least they had better days than Nightmare right?

Very true. Anything that hurts Denny it good news. Reading this was even sweeter being that I won a 12 player tournament earlier yesterday (When I brought the book) by beating pDenny in the final game.

[IronComrade]

I'm just saying this now to call it. Karchev is gonna come back somehow, see the conquest, and tell Hark + Greylords to make him one. First colossal warcaster.

[KhaosSpectyr]

So I'm thinking instead of Karchev2 he might just die, (same with the other old men, Nemo and Severius)

hasnt PP said they wont kill off warcasters?

[KhaosSpectyr]

double post

[Sul-Menite]

hasnt PP said they wont kill off warcasters?

Bah I can't for the life of me find the post now (I know it was made by a PG) but yeah they said that might change in the future. Apparently Nemo and Severius were mentioning their advanced age in this book. Severius even promoted Kreoss to set him up to take over when he finally goes.

I haven't read colossals yet and didnt attend doug's panels so I might be completely off.

[PG_Draxos]

Beast 09 is not mentioned in Colossals.

Okay, how the HELL did triumph get fluff but not the Behemoth or Beat 09? I want an explination.

Overall I loved it and will be rereading it soon.

[OldOneEye]

I'll be the Negative Nelly... I just rolled my eyes about yet another Cryx win and lost interest in buying the book. Granted, this was at Lock & Load after the disappointment of not getting a Stormwall Thursday to have ready for a friend for Masters on Friday, then STARTING the line to the store at 5 on Friday morning, waiting 4 hours, being sick the entire time, disappointment in only two entries per faction... long story short, it may have been more than the story that turned me off.

Really, though, I DO unabashedly want a Khadoran warcaster to beat a Cryxian warcaster completely in a battle. None of this "undone by their own hubris" crap or some Deus Ex Machina from another faction. I want the Butcher to snap Asphyxious's fancy new sword off at the hilt and send him crying for Toruk. I want Zerkova to pull such a fast one on Goreshade that he'll have 360 degree vision in his next form from the way his head is spinning.

When do we get our Harbinger vs. Witch Coven moment?

[Conrad4]

I'm just wondering where Old Witch is? I figured she would have made an apperenance by now with the Cryx on the rise.

[Kurb]

I'm just wondering where Old Witch is? I figured she would have made an apperenance by now with the Cryx on the rise.

Behind the curtain pulling all the strings as usual.

Me thinks Sevy/Kreoss/Vlad/and Friends are gonna come to the rescue next book.

[Wulfenstein]

hasnt PP said they wont kill off warcasters?

I've heard that quite a few times myself.

[wargolem]

Behemoth is on a train to Harkevich to run some tests on his upgrades that were installed. Only harkevich can do it and he needed the extra firepower after the Wrath encounter so Black Ivan and Behemoth will be coming in to save the day by broadsides and feat and black Ivan bulldozing deathjack into behemoth for Big B to nom nom nom on. Harkevich will then have a small scuffle with Butcher over the treatment of his "prisoners" and Butcher will get called off by Irusk to go after Karchev, leaving us at yet another juncture where Irusk hopes secretly that Butcher does not make it back. Strakov is assigned to go with butcher to scout for him and will get pulled too far in (over run) and be cut off from butcher and butcher will pimp slap the cryx warcaster who tries to take him out for our first definative victory against cryx which will allow strakov time to run in and rescue Karchev and drag him out in a slayer chasis that Asphyxious had put Karchev in because he thought he was about to break him.

hehe

[OldOneEye]

Me thinks Sevy/Kreoss/Vlad/and Friends are gonna come to the rescue next book.

And I will barf all over my loafers if Vlad has another "sword bounces off Asphyxious" moment like he did in the resolution of the Apotheosis story line.

[Sining]

eKarchev next year?

[Khador247]

eKarchev next year?

God I hope so. He's my favorite character.

[Skedarman]

Doesn't Denny mention in wrath the she owes Old Witch a favor?

[PG_Samalefic]

I was just happy that triumph and Nightmare got messed the frak up.

[Khador247]

Doesn't Denny mention in wrath the she owes Old Witch a favor?

Yes she does and we still don't know what the payment will be. Toruk greatly values these athancs so the IOU on this one is going to be BIG.

[sliganian]

I've heard that quite a few times myself.

The 'no death' position is -- in a way -- silly. PP is trying to do a very fine balancing act that I think is ultimately unmanageable in the long term. The rapid expansion of the game -- if it continues at the same rate-- will reach a tipping point where it would be unmanageable. How many warcasters are there now? Warlocks? And ALL of these will be carried over to a Version 3? In addition to a all new shiny flash that would be needed for a newer version? Eeek.

Unlike the Other Big Mini Game (which is perma-stopped at 999.M41), the IK storylines seem to progress from book to book (even with usual story shennanigans). So it makes sense that casters can (and should) die. Now, what does that means to the players? Don't know, that's PP's cross to carry. Certalinly could make for some future unhappiness when the size of the games reach the inevitable 'trimming point' in the futrue.

[Sul-Menite]

Hmm I wonder if there is continuation of the Colossals fluff in Sorscha's and Darius' stories in NQ 43.....

[volt_ron]

The 'no death' position is -- in a way -- silly. PP is trying to do a very fine balancing act that I think is ultimately unmanageable in the long term. The rapid expansion of the game -- if it continues at the same rate-- will reach a tipping point where it would be unmanageable. How many warcasters are there now? Warlocks? And ALL of these will be carried over to a Version 3? In addition to a all new shiny flash that would be needed for a newer version? Eeek.

Unlike the Other Big Mini Game (which is perma-stopped at 999.M41), the IK storylines seem to progress from book to book (even with usual story shennanigans). So it makes sense that casters can (and should) die. Now, what does that means to the players? Don't know, that's PP's cross to carry. Certalinly could make for some future unhappiness when the size of the games reach the inevitable 'trimming point' in the futrue.

Plus some of those warcasters are getting really old. Like older than one should be on a battlefield. Isn't Severius close to 80? The story continues to advance (which is beyond awesome) so what happens in a few years? Naturally, some of these people will die. Maybe not in combat but of old age?

[sliganian]

Plus some of those warcasters are getting really old. Like older than one should be on a battlefield. Isn't Severius close to 80? The story continues to advance (which is beyond awesome) so what happens in a few years? Naturally, some of these people will die. Maybe not in combat but of old age?

Pretty much. In Khador, the majority of warcasters are young to middle-aged. The only 'old' casters are Karchev (100+ years??) and the Old Witch. And the Old Witch is -- for all intents and purposes for this discussion -- an immortal being. So the only warcaster realistically on the chopping block for us is Karchev.

For Cygnar I think Nemo is getting up there (not sure -- he looks old). Menoth is as you said with Severius Snape pushing well into pensionable years. Retribution? I don't know my IK fluff well enough but I am guessing that Elves are very long lived (if not Tolkien-esque immortal).

As for Cryx, well, how do you kill that which has no life? (Answer: disconnect their WOW account -- nyuk nyuk nyuk. ) Presumably one could utterly destroy a Cryx caster beyond re-animation (disintigration).

As for Hordes, no idea. Cryx comment would apply to most of Everblight I expect. I know that Circle casters are able to live longer but I am pretty sure they are still pretty mortal. Trolls are trolls and skorne are skorne so nothing to special. I expect skorne COULD have a warlock as an Ancestral Guardian though.

[profparm]

Unlike the Other Big Mini Game (which is perma-stopped at 999.M41), the IK storylines seem to progress from book to book (even with usual story shennanigans). So it makes sense that casters can (and should) die. Now, what does that means to the players? Don't know, that's PP's cross to carry. Certalinly could make for some future unhappiness when the size of the games reach the inevitable 'trimming point' in the futrue.

I think if they wanted to still let players play whatever caster they wanted, they should have a "Flashback" book, set maybe some time in mid-to-late 500s AR. Include "epic" (although actually younger) versions of certain warcasters, like potentially Slightly Less Old Witch, Karchev, Young Nemo, Young Sevvy, etc. Include a blurb in the book that specifies the fact that whenever a player brings an army, the notion is that he is basically choosing what time period his army is from by what caster he uses. This runs in to some inconsistencies (my 575 AR Old Witch is using any given character model that's way too young to justify that), but people play outside of the fluff all the time, and those models' theme forces would probably reflect all older and more mainstay units.

From that point on, they could kill people all they ****ing wanted to. No problem. Oh, you're playing a dead non-Cryx warcaster? That's fine, it's just from 607 AR instead of 610 AR.

[volt_ron]

Personally, I don't care if they kill off warcasters from a story perspective as it won't affect the game any IRL. It's not like my opponents and I are like "Okay, it is 505AR this game."

I think only the neckbeardiest would have a problem with using a "dead" warcaster in a game.

[Sul-Menite]

Pretty much. In Khador, the majority of warcasters are young to middle-aged. The only 'old' casters are Karchev (100+ years??) and the Old Witch. And the Old Witch is -- for all intents and purposes for this discussion -- an immortal being. So the only warcaster realistically on the chopping block for us is Karchev.

For Cygnar I think Nemo is getting up there (not sure -- he looks old). Menoth is as you said with Severius Snape pushing well into pensionable years. Retribution? I don't know my IK fluff well enough but I am guessing that Elves are very long lived (if not Tolkien-esque immortal).

As for Cryx, well, how do you kill that which has no life? (Answer: disconnect their WOW account -- nyuk nyuk nyuk. ) Presumably one could utterly destroy a Cryx caster beyond re-animation (disintigration).

As for Hordes, no idea. Cryx comment would apply to most of Everblight I expect. I know that Circle casters are able to live longer but I am pretty sure they are still pretty mortal. Trolls are trolls and skorne are skorne so nothing to special. I expect skorne COULD have a warlock as an Ancestral Guardian though.

Khador outside of Cryx on average has the oldest warcasters Sorscha's probably the youngest and she's 35. Also we don't know how long people traditionally live in the IK and so what is old to us might be ancient to them.

Personally, I don't care if they kill off warcasters from a story perspective as it won't affect the game any IRL. It's not like my opponents and I are like "Okay, it is 505AR this game."

I think only the neckbeardiest would have a problem with using a "dead" warcaster in a game.

For me it's not about playing a dead warcaster IRL it's the fact that I wont get any more fluff for the character in the future, I don't care about karchev so I don't care if he dies, but I'd be really disappointed if say Sorscha wasn't going to be in any more stories. Would I RAGEQUIT? No, but it'd just be disappointing

[bouncymischa]

God I hope so. He's my favorite character.

On the other hand, it does look like Karchev could very well be one of the first on the chopping block if warcasters start dying. There is the possibility that he could get rescued to become a huge-based warcaster, but at the same time out of anyone he's probably in the best position for Privateer to go "let's see what the fallout of killing a warcaster is like".

[RocketSurgeon]

On the other hand, it does look like Karchev could very well be one of the first on the chopping block if warcasters start dying. There is the possibility that he could get rescued to become a huge-based warcaster, but at the same time out of anyone he's probably in the best position for Privateer to go "let's see what the fallout of killing a warcaster is like".

Any time I've seen the discussion come up in general forums or a LGS floor, Khador has been the faction most willing to take a hit. Maybe it's our tragic heroes, maybe it's our stalwart upbringing.
The way I'd happily see Karchev make an exit is for it to be a large and memorable one. Make his story one that burns into your retinas. Preferably, offer up a Karchev2 that represents his epic actions on the eve of his death. Show the results of his sacrifice on our other characters as the story progresses. One of the next warcasters we get could be one of the mechaniks that worked to sustain his life for so long who is inspired to carry on in like manner for the motherland. Plenty of room for new and old characters to bring us back to the days of Special K.

Who cares that the other guy at the table's favorite caster is still alive when my favorite caster resisted Cryxian torture until he was forcibly turned undead and then used his own soul to power a bomb that obliterated ________, knocked so and so on their ***** in true defeat, and allowed us to recover an athanc? And I get to play with him as he was when he pulled that off! Just an example of the possibilities.

[sliganian]

Khador outside of Cryx on average has the oldest warcasters Sorscha's probably the youngest and she's 35. Also we don't know how long people traditionally live in the IK and so what is old to us might be ancient to them.

Wow, as OLD as 35??!? Imagine! *eyeroll*

Actually, I figured Sorscha as younger than that. Remember, she was Vlad's STUDENT, not a PEER. My completely unfounded opinons are as follows regarding ages (going from backstory and art work):

Sorscha: 25-30
Zerkova: 25-30
Strakhov: 35-40
Harkevich: 35-40
Vlad: 40-45
Irusk: 50-55
Butcher: 50-wharrglbgbgblll! *chop*
Karchev: 150??
Old Witch: 5,000

[sliganian]

Who cares that the other guy at the table's favorite caster is still alive when my favorite caster resisted Cryxian torture until he was forcibly turned undead and then used his own soul to power a bomb that obliterated ________, knocked so and so on their ***** in true defeat, and allowed us to recover an athanc? And I get to play with him as he was when he pulled that off! Just an example of the possibilities.

It isn't an issue of 'caring', it is an issue of sustainability and volume of IP that PP would have to manage.

If they kill off Kachev in Version 2 of the Rules, do you really expect they will be releasing rules and a new model for him by Version 4 or 5 10 years from now? It is those sorts of things that could make truly 'long term' players grumpy.

[Ninja5]

Hmm I wonder if there is continuation of the Colossals fluff in Sorscha's and Darius' stories in NQ 43.....

i haven't read much of it but the only thing i saw was a bit about sorcha's introduction to the colossals. the thing i wonder about with that one is it mentions a junior warcaster, by name, that just graduated from the dhrizina (sp?) that helps with the demonstration. i wonder if this is any indication that khador will see it's own version of "junior" on the tabletop at some point.

[Sul-Menite]

Wow, as OLD as 35??!? Imagine! *eyeroll*

Actually, I figured Sorscha as younger than that. Remember, she was Vlad's STUDENT, not a PEER. My completely unfounded opinons are as follows regarding ages (going from backstory and art work):

Sorscha: 25-30
Zerkova: 25-30
Strakhov: 35-40
Harkevich: 35-40
Vlad: 40-45
Irusk: 50-55
Butcher: 50-wharrglbgbgblll! *chop*
Karchev: 150??
Old Witch: 5,000

You mentioned that most of Khador's warcaster are young to middle aged and my point was that all of them are middle aged at least. Wow it's almost like "Old" and "oldest" are relative

And I'm aware that Sorscha was Vlad's student, but her age is canon she was born in 574 AR making her 34 as of Colossals (According to her GK file and Doug's chart)

Vlad -As you mentioned Vlad was Sorscha's mentor so he is probably at least 10 years older than her, putting him at 44 at the youngest. Also it was kind of creepy for him to hit on his student like that but whatever
Zerkova- is a high ranking grey lord who has spent years abroad so I think she is at least as old as Sorscha.
Strakhov-Sounds right
Butcher- Probably late 50's if not 60's
Irusk-Probably late 50's (he mentioned the empress being like half his age but that was probably some hyperbole)
Karchev- His age is canon as well, there was a chart posted by Doug, It was around that age
Harkevich-Sounded to me like he was more a peer of Irusk than Sorscha but who knows
Old Witch- Not even going to try

[RocketSurgeon]

It isn't an issue of 'caring', it is an issue of sustainability and volume of IP that PP would have to manage.

If they kill off Kachev in Version 2 of the Rules, do you really expect they will be releasing rules and a new model for him by Version 4 or 5 10 years from now? It is those sorts of things that could make truly 'long term' players grumpy.

Yes?
If there is a mk3 or a mk7 of the game, yes I expect all existing models to have new rules. Do you honestly know anyone who doubts PP in this? No, I doubt there would be a new model for a dead character. They're dead. They might get a flashback version of themselves though. I don't see that as likely or as a common thing if it were to happen though. I also don't see any justification for grumpiness in that. Any long term player of this game is probably used to certain characters just being who or what they are by now. Look at how long the game has been available and how many new characters there are. How many old ones without updates. Popular, viable ones without updates.

The only time a model needs an update is during a rules revision, and there is no cause to consider that any model would be left out of a rules revision. There is no evidence, nothing to support the concern. If we're going off of fear and paranoia, all of the warcasters are in danger of just not being updated in a rules revision. Maybe sales were too low on Hark! Maybe The Old Witch won too many tourneys and is being forcibly retired! Doooom!

[Sul-Menite]

i haven't read much of it but the only thing i saw was a bit about sorcha's introduction to the colossals. the thing i wonder about with that one is it mentions a junior warcaster, by name, that just graduated from the dhrizina (sp?) that helps with the demonstration. i wonder if this is any indication that khador will see it's own version of "junior" on the tabletop at some point.

Read of all it then tell me everything

I would say probably yest , if it is the same junior warcaster mentioned in Colossals I doubt PP would just writing him in like that for no reason.

[PG_Draxos]

Isn't there a chart by Doug somewhere that says how old everyone is and when they were born?