Vessel of Judgement: or "OMG HAX! CHEATY MENOTH MEANFACES!"

[Silverstar843]

The Vessel of Judgement, Protectorate Battle Engine



No host of men can withstand the fires of judgement. -Hierarch Severius

The vessel of judgement is a powerful addition to any Protectorate army. It functions similarly to a warjack, but is much more akin to a gun platform. It brings 3 powerful and potentially game changing abilities in addition to it's untyped-damage main weapon as well as having a large number of damage boxes and an innate ability to boost attacks and damage rolls. The cherry on top is quite possibly that the entire 5+ meter church-on-wheels is being pulled by one man.

Attacks: For being such a powerful unit, it's very surprising that it only packs a single magical RNG 12 POW 15 gun.

Stats: The Vessel is as fast as a Reckoner with +1 RAT. Its defense is the same, but has +1 ARM.

Abilities: Aside from being another model in our army that is immune to fire, the Vessel has several features. First of all, it can boost attacks and damage rolls it makes by taking a single point of damage per boost. With its gun, just like eSeverius, after it hits its primary target, the d3 closest enemies to the target take a magical POW 10. This makes it a large threat to infantry and just like with Ashes-to-Ashes, you can bounce it off a target to kill things in melee.

The Vessel brings 3 unique abilities called miracles to the table which can be extremely powerful. Each of these abilities causes the Vessel to take d3 damage when it is activated. The first ability simply removes animi and continuous effects within 10 inches of itself. The second ability simply allows you to keep a warrior model alive after it becomes boxed within 10 inches of the Vessel. This can only be used once per turn and will not work if the model died while advancing. The model can then make a full advance ignoring free strikes followed by one attack. While this ability might seem unimpressive, the majority of silliness this model can provide you comes from this ability. Finally, the Vessel's last miracle simply pushes enemies within 2" back 4" and lights them on fire.

That's great, but tell me why should I care? WHAT?! This thing is amazing. While it is expensive for Menoth units, having an accurate untyped magic damage gun is fantastic! Vs. other Menoth Players, you can hit their jacks and bounce extra hits into Vassals or choir. Having the ability to boost innately even makes it arguably better than the other battle engines that need some circumstance to occur in order to boost.

The miracles when used well add an entirely new dimension of play. The first and third miracles are very straightforward. You'll use the purification to remove fires and corrosion effects and animi. The other is used primarily to move things from objectives or get things out of melee, specifically out of melee with itself so it can shoot the gun. The second miracle, Doors of Judgement, on the other hand, is impossible to completely discuss.

Doors of Judgement opens some outrageous doors (ha!) for us. Typically as our solos are very powerful, using this ability to keep a solo alive is the way to go. Nicia, for instance, can move her 7 inches avoiding everything in her path and get a powerful swing on something up to 9" away. Paladins including Vilmon can charge on your turn and, once they get splatted on the enemy's turn, make one more attack. When used with certain infantry like TFG with their UA or Cinnerators, you can make another swing and light an enemy of fire. If a powerful infantry unit has charged you, you can kill the enemy unit leader and deny that attack plus a little known rule prevents a model from making attacks that turn if it was replaced. This way you have denied 2 attacks. This trick of course can be applied to ranged weapons as well. If someone kills a zealot, that zealot can now move and throw his bomb. If someone kills the leader of the Sunburst crew, you can move it into contact with the grunt and out of melee and shoot also giving him the +2 to hit bonus. Even though the Sunburst is artillery, it can still move and fire as that rule only applies during its turn. You can also use Doors to deny opponents abilities that trigger when the model is destroyed. The model will still be boxed and the enemy can gain benefits, but your model will be removed from play regardless. Lastly, this miracle can also save your game. If the enemy kills your warcaster, they can be Doors-ed. This can easily allow you to kill warcasters like eStryker. There are simply too many tricks that can be applied with this miracle. Test it out and try not to forget it!

Alright, you convinced me. What works with it? Glad you asked.

Raza: Kinda likes it because it can clear screens and annoying solos plus it frees up his focus. However, Raza wants lots of jacks and 9 points is a large investment. I would not discount it, but it requires some sacrifice in army creation. If you have a large army and already have at least 4 jacks, it can be a consideration.

pFeora: likes having it around as it can free up some focus. She can place walls in front of it to prevent charging from infantry or lights as well as can spray through it as the Vessel is immune to fire.

eFeora: doesn't mind it, and caustic presence with the Eruption miracle can remove entire units or EASILY set up her feat as it does no damage.

Harbinger: can hide behind it and provide martyrdom silliness combined with Doors. harbinger becomes the angel of death, choosing who lives and who dies.

Reclaimer: can blast it with Ashes-to-Ashes which it is immune to, but then the spell chains into several other enemies. Regardless of any factors such as hills, being engaged, or being concealed, Reclaimer will only need a 5 to hit with ashes because of the rules regarding battle engines. This drops to a 3 if he has rear-arc. Although the Vessel requires no focus so it can help Reclaimer, anything that has Doors used on it is removed from play. This means no souls and the model cannot be used in the feat. Keep in mind that the Reclaimer's clouds will not be able to screeen the Vessel and as such the enemy can use it as a target for aoes or spells similar to Ashes-to-Ashes.

Testament: Incorporeal units can charge through this monstrous base as well as the obvious other benefits the Vessel provides. Like the Reclaimer, remember models that have been targeted with Doors cannot be Revived and will provide no soul after their attack.

pKreoss: Another gun that can kill fire immune casters and isn't inaccurate? Hell yes!

Reznik: Provides a nice gun and helps him save focus. Really not much other synergy here.

pSevy: Eye see you with a Rat 7 POW 16 shot. Vision is very nice spell to put on the Vessel, as well.

eSevy: being slightly easy to kill is less of a disadvantage when sevy can have creator's wrath on himself, die, get the miracle used on him, and kill the enemy caster.

Thyra: Absolutely loves this thing. The gun and the miracles combined with her infantry horde can do a lot. She can also stealth it which makes a lot of people scratch their heads wondering, "How?"

Vindictus: I strongly recommend guns with him, and this is possibly the best in the faction. Taking this instead of a jack means you can Sac Lamb choir more often with the Vessel providing great support. Vindy's horde will also help to protect the Vessel.

TFG: as I mentioned, can get one more attack off with Doors. This can light something on fire and can cause a terror check!

Zealots: BOOM! Already mentioned.

KE: Keep that last one alive for another swing and take someone with you from that POW 16 WM attack.

Deliverers: Can get one more super-long range blast off at something. Just remember it's POW 6. You're honestly better off with something else.

Bastions: One more Blessed WM attack? Awesome!

Cinerators: These can potentially kill something and flameburst people around them.

Cleansers: Being immune to fire, the cleansers can spray through it and not hurt it. It also gives them some protection. Giving a dead cleanser a spray could kill several models and avoid many attacks.

Idrians: Idrians can focus on clearing Preyed units while the Vessel handles solos and other targets for them. Prey can be a massive boost, and remember they can shoot, too, during a Doors miracle.

Rhoven: Keeping one of the guards alive can be a nice swing, as now they are guaranteed battle driven. Rhoven can also provide Menoth's Sight to the Vessel allowing it to avoid clouds and stealth. Rhoven can also help to keep the Vessel alive slightly longer by providing the same ability as its first miracle.

Vassal Mechanik: The Vessel hurts itself quite often and of course the opponent will want it dead. This guy can keep it in working order. Many people consider it a requirement to take the fixer, but it really isn't needed.

Gravus: This is a SUPER strong choice as Gravus can swing his dispelling chain weapon to remove upkeeps and the Vessel can remove everything else, except non-upkeep spells. In addition, getting one more swing out of a MAT 8 model that removes upkeeps can make your opponent think twice about killing him before the Vessel.

Nicia: Was mentioned already.

Vilmon: Was also mentioned. Pay attention!

[Silverstar843]

Reserved for space
If you can read this, adjust your monitor.

[Bartacus]

Very nice write-up Silverstar, thanks. The Vessel is top of my shopping list at the moment.

One thing, I thought the Doors'ing of Warcasters had been confirmed as against intent of the designers. Even if that doesn't make it strictly illegal until it is errata'd it might be worth mentioning.

[Spatulor]

One thing, I thought the Doors'ing of Warcasters had been confirmed as against intent of the designers. Even if that doesn't make it strictly illegal until it is errata'd it might be worth mentioning.

It's vanishingly unlikely to get errata'd now, since PP decided NOT to errata it a little while ago. Apparently it's too much of a cornercase to be worth an errata.

Also, just thought I'd throw this out there: the Vessel makes a great target for Vision with pSeverius. I find my Vessel takes enough damage from boosting and using miracles, Vision can really help - especially if my opponent forgets about it, which happens fairly often.

[PG_n00buaddib]

Yeah, I was a bit bothered by this bit as well:

Lastly, this miracle can also save your game. If the enemy kills your warcaster, they can be Doors-ed. This can easily allow you to kill warcasters like eStryker. There are simply too many tricks that can be applied with this miracle. Test it out and try not to forget it!

Now I'll admit I'm not 100% sure on this, but I remember for a fact that in mk I, both Feoras had an ability, Death Pyre or something. Basically when they died, they would explode in a power 14ish aoe. Now some people were all like ''oh yeah, and if x caster comes to assassinate you and you blow up and kill them the game is a draw''. It was ruled it is in fact not, since the game stops at the moment your caster leaves the table, while these abilities resolve slightly afterwards. And that was mk I mind you, with all its silliness (for which we loved it <3). I wouldn't mind this in a friendly game but if someone tried to pull this off against me in a tourney, I'd call the judge.


I wholeheartedly agree with the 'nice writeup' part though. I'm still not convinced it's worth taking but call that a play style thing.

Cheers, S

[stormshaft]

Yeah, I was a bit bothered by this bit as well:



Now I'll admit I'm not 100% sure on this, but I remember for a fact that in mk I, both Feoras had an ability, Death Pyre or something. Basically when they died, they would explode in a power 14ish aoe. Now some people were all like ''oh yeah, and if x caster comes to assassinate you and you blow up and kill them the game is a draw''. It was ruled it is in fact not, since the game stops at the moment your caster leaves the table, while these abilities resolve slightly afterwards. And that was mk I mind you, with all its silliness (for which we loved it <3). I wouldn't mind this in a friendly game but if someone tried to pull this off against me in a tourney, I'd call the judge.


I wholeheartedly agree with the 'nice writeup' part though. I'm still not convinced it's worth taking but call that a play style thing.

Cheers, S

Haha, exploding Warcasters, that's pretty sweet.

But the difference here being that Doors of Judgement kicks in at "boxed" which is before "destroyed".
This means that as long as the enemy caster is not currently affected by a rule of the same application, your "Doors'ed" Warcaster can actually kill the enemy caster/lock before your caster is destroyed, like so:

Menite turn:
- Vessel uses Doors of Judgement during its activation

Enemy turn:
- Gets off an attack at the menite Warcaster, the first thing that happens is that it is disabled (work out any effects that happen during "disabled")
-> boxed (work out any effects that happen during "boxed" i.e. Doors of Judgement), you move your caster into melee range of the enemy caster/lock and manages to disable him/her/it and as long as they lack something of equal meassure with effects during disabled or boxed, they then go directly to destroyed, winning you the game since your warcaster is actually in his boxed stage and not yet "dead".



@ Silverstar:

Great write up, it should get included into the Canon soon enough I hope.

[Fish76]

In the abilities section "...within 2" are pushed 2".." is a typo. The push is 4".

Otherwise, an excellent article, good work!

[Circle noob]

Bastions: One more Blessed attack? From whichever Bastion I choose to kill? Awesome!

i really am not sure about this. if you kill a bastion by using sanguine he is not destroyed by your enemy. so you should nbot be able to apply the miracle to that specific bastion.

Reznik: If Reznik kills an enemy, he can place a Wrack. The Vessel can shoot it and first hit a couple things close to it and then it explodes!

the wrack is friendly faction. admonisher only triggers on hitting the opponents models.

[PG_KestrelM1]

i really am not sure about this. if you kill a bastion by using sanguine he is not destroyed by your enemy. so you should nbot be able to apply the miracle to that specific bastion.

If your bastion is dying, you really shouldn't be using Sanguine Bond. Why take 12 damage across the unit when you can just take it on one guy?

I should note to the OP that Quick Work is "During this model's activation" and thus isn't usable through Doors of Judgment.

Otherwise, it's an excellent write-up. The Protectorate Battle Engine is an extremely solid piece with a lot of applications.

[jandrese]

With its gun, just like eSeverius, after it hits its primary target, the d3 closest enemies to the target take a magical POW 10. This makes it a large threat to infantry and just like with Ashes-to-Ashes, you can bounce it off a friendly target to kill things in melee.

It has Admonisher, which states:

When this model directly hits an enemy model with a melee or ranged attack, the d3 nearest enemy models within 5˝ of the model hit suffer a POW 10 magical damage roll.

So you can't bounce it off of friendlies.

[jandrese]

Reclaimer: can blast it with Ashes-to-Ashes unlikely to hurt it, but then chaining into several other enemies. Regardless of any factors such as hills, being engaged, or being concealed, Reclaimer will only need a 5 to hit with ashes because of the rules regarding battle engines. This drops to a 3 if he has rear-arc. Although the Vessel requires no focus so it can help Reclaimer, anything that has Doors used on it is removed from play. This means no souls and the model cannot be used in the feat.

In fact Ashes to Ashes is fire type damage, so it's not just unlikely to hurt the Vessel, the Vessel is actually completely immune.

There is some anti-synergy you should probably mention here: Because the Vessel cannot be hidden by cloud effects, the High Reclaimer cannot keep it safe. You will almost certainly want to keep the Vessel on a flank if running the High Reclaimer so people don't bounce Chain Lightning off of it into your army, or use it as a targeting point for inaccurate (or out of range) AoE attacks.

[jandrese]

Yeah, I was a bit bothered by this bit as well:

Now I'll admit I'm not 100% sure on this, but I remember for a fact that in mk I, both Feoras had an ability, Death Pyre or something. Basically when they died, they would explode in a power 14ish aoe. Now some people were all like ''oh yeah, and if x caster comes to assassinate you and you blow up and kill them the game is a draw''. It was ruled it is in fact not, since the game stops at the moment your caster leaves the table, while these abilities resolve slightly afterwards. And that was mk I mind you, with all its silliness (for which we loved it <3). I wouldn't mind this in a friendly game but if someone tried to pull this off against me in a tourney, I'd call the judge.

I wholeheartedly agree with the 'nice writeup' part though. I'm still not convinced it's worth taking but call that a play style thing.

Death Pyre was worded such that it happened after the caster was destroyed. Doors happens on boxed, which means they are still technically on the table when it happens. I asked about the non-warcaster errata last time the errata doc came out, and the purplenames confirmed that it was too much of a corner case to take up a spot in the errata, so the rule stands as written.

[Soulblighter]

If your bastion is dying, you really shouldn't be using Sanguine Bond. Why take 12 damage across the unit when you can just take it on one guy?

Generally youre right, but it really depends on the situation. For example, if you have Bastions that are outside charge range and wont be much use to you next turn anyway, it might be worth having them soak the overkill damage just to keep the ones that are in charge range alive.

[PG_n00buaddib]

I've done some research about it and I take it back, you may indeed bring your caster 'back to life' and even win the game, since he apparently wasn't dead to begin with. So yeah. Uhm... that's pretty funny if you can pull it off.

[Silverstar843]

Man I made a lot of mistakes on this one; It's what I get for writing these at like 3 in the morning -_-. Thanks to my editors I'll be fixing those.

In fact Ashes to Ashes is fire type damage, so it's not just unlikely to hurt the Vessel, the Vessel is actually completely immune.

There is some anti-synergy you should probably mention here: Because the Vessel cannot be hidden by cloud effects, the High Reclaimer cannot keep it safe. You will almost certainly want to keep the Vessel on a flank if running the High Reclaimer so people don't bounce Chain Lightning off of it into your army, or use it as a targeting point for inaccurate (or out of range) AoE attacks.

Looking at the entry for the spell in the PoM book, the bouncing hits from ashes are fire damage, but the primary one isn't. Unlike Immolate which is listed as "Immolation causes fire damage."

[Bartacus]

Death Pyre was worded such that it happened after the caster was destroyed. Doors happens on boxed, which means they are still technically on the table when it happens. I asked about the non-warcaster errata last time the errata doc came out, and the purplenames confirmed that it was too much of a corner case to take up a spot in the errata, so the rule stands as written.

Thanks for confirming Jandrese, not sure I follow PP's logic about it being 'corner-case' but I like the outcome!

[vvp]

Thanks for confirming Jandrese, not sure I follow PP's logic about it being 'corner-case' but I like the outcome!

hilarity sometimes overcomes pure reason.

(It is just another interaction to consider when killing the opposing warcaster, it isn't like you can boost outside of activation).

[jandrese]

It is important to remember that Engine of Destruction lasts for a whole round.

[jandrese]

Looking at the entry for the spell in the PoM book, the bouncing hits from ashes are fire damage, but the primary one isn't. Unlike Immolate which is listed as "Immolation causes fire damage."

Is this not the wording?

If target model is hit, it and the d6 nearest enemy models within 5˝ of it suffer a POW 10 fire damage roll

"it and the" phrase seems to imply that the original hit is fire type damage.

[Tarrant]

IIRC, the D3 Pow 10 hits are also boostable.

I used the VoJ in two games with Reznik and it was awesome. Got to use all the miracles at least once and it proved an excellent toolbox along with some fantastic offensive abilities.

Question: Good casters to use double VoJs?

T.

[jandrese]

Yep, those extra hits are boostable, which is what makes them so great. A boosted POW 10 kills darn near any solo that isn't an expensive Dragoon, Tartarus or the Lord of the Feast. Even solos with decent ARM (ARM 16 is usually about the max) need to worry. Heck, most casters will take some damage from a boosted POW 10.

For Double VoJ action I would consider the Harbinger with a bunch of power solos. She can really really hide behind two huge bases and abuse the crap out of Martyrdom to let you use Doors of Judgement at exactly the right time for each solo.

[zulu81]

While it is a bit of skorne-gy Doors can also work well with Errants and the regular Exemplar Senny. With Errants it will not always be benefical to Self Sac so getting a pow 9 wpm attack or Pow 10 shot is not to be ignored. With the Senny, even if your opponent did his entire order of attacks right and left the kill attack on the senchal last you, can still DoJ and get one last pow 13 wpm attack. You would not do it every time but grants you additional options, which is never bad.

[zulu81]

For Double VoJ action I would consider the Harbinger with a bunch of power solos. She can really really hide behind two huge bases and abuse the crap out of Martyrdom to let you use Doors of Judgement at exactly the right time for each solo.

I also find that double VOJ can work in a Reznik list as they are infantry clearing that he does not have to feed focus to and ignite can make those Door attacks that much more powerful. Door'ng your last 2 KE for free pow 17 and 18 wpm attacks can be very effective. Or even pow 11 wpm Errants or pow 12 TFG.

[Marzuki]

Paladins including Vilmon can charge and once they get splatted, make one more attack.

Doors says you can only make a full advance and then a normal attack. I don't think it actually allows a charge.

[Silverstar843]

Doors says you can only make a full advance and then a normal attack. I don't think it actually allows a charge.

I meant "They can charge in on your turn and once the enemy kills them, you can can get one more smack out of them." I'll change that wording.

Stuff about me being wrong.

Yes, now I see it. I figured since it's listed as a POW 10 that's it and then everything else takes the fire damage. I knew it didn't make much sense, but figured they made it like that for some reason.

[Snipafist]

Doors says you can only make a full advance and then a normal attack. I don't think it actually allows a charge.

He didn't actually say that. He said paladins can
1. charge
and then
2. once they die they can make one more attack

The main problem with paladins is that they're fairly durable so long as they're not threatening much of anything. They pack a mean wallop on the charge, but then they're summarily squished. With Doors of Judgment, they can get in an extra fierce attack before wandering off to the great foam tray in the sky.

[arkiboy]

you missed out Amon on Caster list

[Silverstar843]

you missed out Amon on Caster list

Who? oh that guy. Yeah, he's there....*runs to edit*

[Kazi]

Fun thing I've heard about doing with the VoJ: Erupting enemy models through one of Feora's flame walls.

Fun thing I've done with the VoJ: neutralizing Defensive Strikes/Countercharges with Doors of Judgement. Example: your Paladin charges Rocinante. Rocinante kills your Paladin before he can land a hit. You use Doors and hit Rocinante anyways. The great thing about it is that you can still use Doors on your opponent's next turn too.

[Kazi]

Oh, you should also mention that Doors of Judgement is a great way to stop Berzerks and endless kill-move loops.

[computertrucker]

Haha, exploding Warcasters, that's pretty sweet.

Menite turn:
- Vessel uses Doors of Judgement during its activation

Enemy turn:
- Gets off an attack at the menite Warcaster, the first thing that happens is that it is disabled (work out any effects that happen during "disabled")
-> boxed (work out any effects that happen during "boxed" i.e. Doors of Judgement), you move your caster into melee range of the enemy caster/lock and manages to disable him/her/it and as long as they lack something of equal meassure with effects during disabled or boxed, they then go directly to destroyed, winning you the game since your warcaster is actually in his boxed stage and not yet "dead".

Wrong! re read doors of judgement, the miracle is used during the enemies turn, not during it's activation. No where does it read that you use it and during the next round it can go off. It states simply you use the miracle when the friendly model is boxed by an enemy attack while not advancing.

[Silverstar843]

Oh, you should also mention that Doors of Judgement is a great way to stop Berzerks and endless kill-move loops.

Good point. It triggers on boxed, so there are things that the enemy will get from it, but the model is RFP anyway.

[Eglagrodion]

also i have found that thyra LOVES the vessel when playing against hordes.. just because silence of death becomes even more better.
upkeep SoD on any melee unit, and when killed, let it be doors'ed, walk over to one of his beast ( hopefully a crucial one) and smack him with grievious wounds. with some luck you even dissable one of its branches, making the beast almost worthless.

happened to me, and would've won me the game if it weren't for dice down.

and doors'ed is a once per turn miracle, which is important cause you really have to consider on which model you want to use it. its not a simple trade off, you kill one of mine, ill kill one of yours.

[stormshaft]

Wrong! re read doors of judgement, the miracle is used during the enemies turn, not during it's activation. No where does it read that you use it and during the next round it can go off. It states simply you use the miracle when the friendly model is boxed by an enemy attack while not advancing.

Even better!

But I was semi-wrong.
You can actually use it during your own turn as well, as long as your model is boxed by an enemy attack that does not occur while you advance i.e. freestrikes and the like.
In other words a counter-slam or a counter-charge can set off the Doors of Judgement, AND you can use it during the opponents turn as well (since it is used on a "once per turn" basis).


Edit: ... which I know you know since you wrote more or less the same think. Doh.

[jandrese]

The "once per turn" limitation is also nice for Unbound, where you can theoretically make 8 (or more!) Doors of Judgement attacks per round.

[Soulblighter]

The "once per turn" limitation is also nice for Unbound, where you can theoretically make 8 (or more!) Doors of Judgement attacks per round.

LOL your vessel would barely have any life left after using it 8 times.

[Syas]

It isn't one Vessel using it 8 times, and the VoJ Formation for Unbound means the heal a d3 every turn as well, so averaging it over the game they can use the miracles with no downsides.

[Terraneaux]

I'm not really seeing the synergy with Vindictus here.

[Silverstar843]

It's more that it runs with no focus and if you're not infantry in his army, I recommend having a gun instead of trying to keep up.

[loramer]

Nice writeup! Thanks for doing that for us.

Although PP considers it a conercase to get a zombie caster kill, I have gotten 2 off so far and nearly gotten 3 more (I got to make the zombie caster attacks, just wasn't able to finish their caster off with them). My opponents are quickly learning that they need to kill of the VoJ before attempting any sort of assassination attempt.

The VoJ is one of the most fun models that I have played. Before getting one, I was really unimpressed by Battle engines as a whole. Now I am just unimpressed by other factions battle engines! This thing is a beast!