Insider 7-18-2012 - Playtesting new character warjacks

[PG_Viper114]

http://privateerpress.com/community/...ider-7-18-2012

Well, that's really cool, giving the community a chance to playtest some concept warjacks and help adjust them accordingly so they aren't broken as hell forever. I like this idea, but there's one thing that bugs me...

Where's some new character warbeasts that can go through the same procedure?

[Blaque]

Field test flashbacks are coming back to me. I'm afraid.

And stuff.

[PG_Feeple]

http://privateerpress.com/community/...ider-7-18-2012

Well, that's really cool, giving the community a chance to playtest some concept warjacks and help adjust them accordingly so they aren't broken as hell forever. I like this idea, but there's one thing that bugs me...

Where's some new character warbeasts that can go through the same procedure?

These are not future models, DC said that in the post. These are some sample models that, if you and a few other dudes want to be playtesters, you need to look at, try out, and give feedback on. I don't think most of these would ever be a thing for real. This is like a playtest application, more than a field test sneak peek.

[PG_Viper114]

It's not impossible that one or more of these things could become real after playtesting. Probably unlikely at best, but one can dream.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

Just a few questions:

1) Should we test all included Warjacks, or just the ones from the factions that we're most proficient with? I could test the Cygnar jacks, but I'm not as familiar with that faction.

2) Is the 23rd really the correct date? I'd love to give this a shot, but we have a big two day event this weekend, and there's little chance I could test these models properly in that time.

[Blaque]

I'm more sad at the deadline than anything, since I'm sure I can wrangle the people up, but not by Monday unless folks want to try some of them at John Con. <_<

And stuff.

[Thadrin]

I won't be doing the playtest thing, seeing as I don't play very often (though if my friends want to I suppose I could dig out my Khador stuff. Irusk having a Marauder witha Heavy boiler intrigues me...nice combo with Superiority jumps out at me immediately).

However - just as an initial thought from looking at the Rhul model: I like Aggressive, as it lets Gorten sit on an extra focus round 1. Assault initially had me screaming "What? on a p+s6 bash?" but then I realised that the potential for 3" extra threat range on the spray is interesting, even if it means the model would likely be tied up in melee the next round. Peel off whatever it charged later in the turn, possibly with a Basher's flak field, and there is POTENTIALLY something fun. Not sure it's worth an extra point, but then again, Rhul players are often left with a spare point in lists (where are the WAs?).

Damn...I was all ready to shoot this one down straight off, and now I've argued myself into wanting to try it...even if I think it needs something more. Like a charge-only POW bonus.

[PG_Viper114]

Ah well, one could dream...

[Rapier]

I'd love to do this from September onwards :P guess I'll try to get in next time.

[DoktorVivi]

Might actually be able to do some of these! Don't have a big group but it could be fun to try these out and playtest 'em.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

I'm more sad at the deadline than anything, since I'm sure I can wrangle the people up, but not by Monday unless folks want to try some of them at John Con. <_<

And stuff.

Let's see what we can do about that at Johncon.

[captainspud]

The tight deadline should also be considered part of the test-- given enough time, anyone will eventually figure out what's wrong with the models. But it takes a special eye to catch all the mistakes within a short time window.

It's the same reason you only get two hours to write a final exam.

Not to mention that it demonstrates that your testing group has a certain level of commitment, and can be relied upon to give DC helpful feedback while it's still relevant. If internal testing leaves a question mark over a certain model and they have 9 days until the publisher wants the book (I doubt they actually leave things running that close, but you never know...), DC needs to know that he has an army of dedicated playtest gobbers who can answer any lingering questions before the clock runs out.

[GreenJello]

It would be interesting to see what they think are the "answers" to what's broken about these models. I'm not seeing anything that really jumps out at me, other than some typos (the Sentinel has it's weapons reversed for example).

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

The tight deadline should also be considered part of the test-- given enough time, anyone will eventually figure out what's wrong with the models. But it takes a special eye to catch all the mistakes within a short time window.

It's the same reason you only get two hours to write a final exam.

Not to mention that it demonstrates that your testing group has a certain level of commitment, and can be relied upon to give DC helpful feedback while it's still relevant. If internal testing leaves a question mark over a certain model and they have 9 days until the publisher wants the book (I doubt they actually leave things running that close, but you never know...), DC needs to know that he has an army of dedicated playtest gobbers who can answer any lingering questions before the clock runs out.

I don't mind the short timeframe as much as the short timeframe+zero notice Wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have stuff planned this weekend.

[PG_Viper114]

Just reading them over, some of them just scream ridiculous in some cases. I'm not going to spoil anything, but man, I'd hate to face some of these things.

[MagnustheJust]

The most cruel of the lot is Gorten's character blaster...

Adding assault AND aggressive for one point more than the regular is actually ideal since most Searforge lists wind up one point shy...

That being said, I would give up Sam & the Devil dogs for that Bunny on steroids!!

[MidnightFox0083]

Just reading them over, some of them just scream ridiculous in some cases. I'm not going to spoil anything, but man, I'd hate to face some of these things.

I had the same reactions/thoughts. Unfortunately, as I'm scheduled to move sometime next year(wife's military), I'm going to pass on lighting the "emergency gaming sessions" beacons to try these out and send in my group's thoughts.

[Falkman]

I don't mind the short timeframe as much as the short timeframe+zero notice Wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have stuff planned this weekend.

The deadline is the 20th of august, that's a month, not just this weekend.

[TKaz84]

I like the Sentinel with the armor-piercing gun myself

[captainspud]

The most cruel of the lot is Gorten's character blaster...

It's probably best if people refrain from sharing their specific observations on the forums. It defeats the purposes of the test if the "answer key" is available on the forums...

For the record: I would be a terrible playtester. I just have a lot of respect for the testing process itself, hence my enthusiasm for the topic here.

[KhisanthMagus]

Gotta love Goreshade's "I will assassinate everything!" stalker as well.

[PG_Viper114]

The deadline is the 20th of august, that's a month, not just this weekend.

Oh, he changed it. It was originally July 23rd listed, and now it's August 20th. OK, so people have more time now rather than 5 days.

[captainspud]

The deadline is the 20th of august, that's a month, not just this weekend.

That's been edited. It said "July 23rd" before.

[Bishop84]

Some of the problems are really easy to identify just by looking at them, and I would love to test these out and submit as a possible future tester.

EDIT: And it looks like they added a month to the deadline. Woohoo!

[PG_Alviaran]

It would be interesting to see what they think are the "answers" to what's broken about these models. I'm not seeing anything that really jumps out at me, other than some typos (the Sentinel has it's weapons reversed for example).

I can point to something that is either unbalanced, falls flat or multiple abilities that work at crossroads to each other on pretty much all of them. It makes me wonder if there is more off about these models and I'm only seeing the easy answers.

And why is everyone saying a short time frame? It says August 20th is the cut off for playtesting. I'm wondering if there was an edit to his Insider.

[John of Arc]

I wonder if these are all jacks they already have completed versions of? Because they seem like what the warcaster would be paired up with, for the most part.

[Palmer_v1]

The Goreshade Stalker seems nice. Arcane Assassin with built in Dark Shroud? Sure!

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

Woohoo! More time!

[PG_Sobek]

Hmm.... One big question that jumps out at me regarding Ravyn's Manticore. How does Swift Hunter (movement after destroying a model with a 'normal' attack) interact with Strafe, which is a 'star' attack? Going to have to think about that one when I can sit down later tonight with the rulebook.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

Some of those are pretty LoLsy. Caine's Sentinel? Harby's Devout? Gorshade's Stalker? Yeah, like those wouldn't be automatic in their factions from the moment they were released into the wild.

Some make almost no sense. Auto-smite on a model with no follow up? Swift Hunter v.s. Strafe and RoF 1? These things are directly worse than the models they "up-grade"

A couple look playable right out of the pdf. Shea's Mariner is amazing, but it is still a Mariner, so it isn't out of control. Darius's Cent is unimpressive, but not worse than Triumph. Zerkova's Devistator is fantastic, but it only works well against warmachine (where it would be amazing!) and I doubt it would be as easy a choice as, say, Beast 09 became.

[TsavongLah]

It would be interesting to see what they think are the "answers" to what's broken about these models. I'm not seeing anything that really jumps out at me, other than some typos (the Sentinel has it's weapons reversed for example).

Really? I only read the Cygnar stuff and... well, that Sentinel is a monster. Why yes, I would like to blow up all the heavies. ALL THE HEAVIES.

[PG_LunarSol]

Just reading them over, some of them just scream ridiculous in some cases. I'm not going to spoil anything, but man, I'd hate to face some of these things.

There's one in particularly that's just completely broken. Most of them are +1 pt for a simple additional ability, but one is a complete abomination.

[PG_Viper114]

I think I MAY know which one you're talking about...

[MidnightFox0083]

I wonder if these are all jacks they already have completed versions of? Because they seem like what the warcaster would be paired up with, for the most part.

Except that Cain's almost always mentioned to be with a specific Charger, not a Sentinel.

[x3tsniper]

At a glance of the menoth and khador, I think the devout is ridiculous the Vanq is pretty weak, the Marauder is eh, and the Devastator may need tweaks.

The devout got a great addition with the taking damage for casters, and gains a mat boost. I honestly can't see the ability being balanced in its current state. It really needs a cost for the damage sent. Otherwise for 6 points, your caster gains an extra 26 health, and with mechanics...
Vanq gains +1 rat and crit KD on melee for a point. Meh. 360* front arc is negligible. If he had reach, you might be going somewhere.

Marauder gets to smite twice now if I read it correctly, doesn't gain the ridiculously needed mat. He can run for free, which is always nice. He also gains +1 defense. I see this as paying a point for an extra chance to smite. I don't like it.
The Devastator may be a bit much. Tech Interference for enemy models on an armor 25 jack, means I am running him straight at you every turn, and once he gets in on you, there isn't much you can do about it.

EDIT:

Also as written, the Marauder only gets to smite, which is all you would probably want him doing anways, but it will always be a pow 4. The line that includes the strength + pow is not included in the play test. Intended?

Smite - On a direct hit, instead of making a normal damage roll the target model is slammed d6˝ directly away from this model
and suffers a damage roll with POW equal to the POW of this weapon. The POW of collateral damage is equal to the POW of
this weapon. Place the AOE before moving the slammed model


From Marauder

Combo Smite(*Attack) - Make a melee attack. On a hit, instead of making a normal damage roll the target model is slammed d6" directly away from this model and suffers a damage roll with POW equal to the STR of this model plus twice the POW of this weapon. The POW of collateral damage is equal to this model's STR.


Side not, why did neither of the Khador jacks get a mat increase? Devastator didn't need it but the marauder certainly did.

[bouncymischa]

Some of these models look pretty cool, and some look rather absurdly broken. :P

I am rather fond of the Retribution ones, though. They fall into a kind of sweet spot where they demonstratably look to have "learned" something from their particular owners, but they don't end up completely redundant with them (the way Triumph does, unfortunately).

[Sheer_Falacy]

The Goreshade Stalker seems nice. Arcane Assassin with built in Dark Shroud? Sure!

Nice for Morty. I can't see Goreshade ever taking it though, prime already gives his battlegroup dark shroud and epic will be buy with moar banes.

Skarre's Levi would have the same issue with eskarre - I guess future sight is thematic for her but it's a bit redundant.

[PPS_DC]

-- Announcement --

Yes, the blog initially went up with the wrong date. We originally wanted to put this blog out before Comic Con, but it wound up getting delayed until after the show.

The currently-posted date is the correct one.

[x3tsniper]

Don't know that I would want to play against someone fielding some of this stuff....

[bouncymischa]

Yeah, that's why I haven't said anything myself, otherwise I would have.

A bit of a shame, since I do feel eager to spout off about some of the designs I like, but while I have no illusions about my potential as a playtester (i.e. none), it would throw off the process to do so.

I did feel my earlier comment was safe enough to make, but in hindsight it does make me wonder how much feedback playtesters may be expected to give on "fluffy" aspects of the model, such as how well it reflects the warcaster it's supposed to be associated with. I'll have to reread DC's older threads to see if he says anything about it.