Insider 7-18-2012 - Playtesting new character warjacks

[Palmer_v1]

Nice for Morty. I can't see Goreshade ever taking it though, prime already gives his battlegroup dark shroud and epic will be buy with moar banes.

Skarre's Levi would have the same issue with eskarre - I guess future sight is thematic for her but it's a bit redundant.

Even ignoring that that's wasted with eSkarre, I'd probably pay 1 more point to get 1 more Rat, and crit catastrophic damage on melee anyway.

[Vex]

Gotta love Goreshade's "I will assassinate everything!" stalker as well.

Normal Stalker = ~12 damage v.s. ARM 16, if all attacks connect
Super Stalker = ~18 damage v.s. ARM 16, if all attacks connect (a bit more if bonded), plus the Dark Shroud advantage that can be used by other models.

For an extra point, and the character restriction, that doesn't seem that out of line... until you consider that it went from usually requiring assistance for an assassination, to getting the job done itself as often as not. And if you have an attack damage buff, or a ARM debuff, this thing turns into a guided missile of doom.

[Palmer_v1]

Normal Stalker = ~12 damage v.s. ARM 16, if all attacks connect
Super Stalker = ~18 damage v.s. ARM 16, if all attacks connect (a bit more if bonded), plus the Dark Shroud advantage that can be used by other models.

For an extra point, and the character restriction, that doesn't seem that out of line... until you consider that it went from usually requiring assistance for an assassination, to getting the job done itself as often as not. And if you have an attack damage buff, or a ARM debuff, this thing turns into a guided missile of doom.

As was mentioned, Mortenebra would take this stalker more often than Goreshade himself. Boosted attacks vs living, rerolls on attack and damage rolls, extra 2" on charge vs living, charge for free vs living, and a potential 7" move to set up the charge beforehand.

Edit: Though presumably, it would mess up her tier.

[PG_LonelyMonk]

Just a quick word or two... I have been a playtester for other games..

this is what you need to be able to do..

Keep you mouth shut, no bragging, no leaks, you have an NDA

Play every faction, every caster


Look for combos that break the game

No fanboy stuff for your faction.. Making sure you faction get the super stuff breaks the game and you won't be a playtester for long.


Useful feedback that is on time and well written, clear, concise

Play multiple games a week, not complete games, not to win, just till you see where it is going and how the new stuff fits in the game.

If you travel a lot, play a lot, paint a lot, have a busy job, have poor time management or a busy family life...

You won't be a good playtester..

[Demeritus]

Definitely gonna have to see about getting some friends together to try this, looks like it should be quite challenging and fun.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Swine! Did you really think giving the Tidy Bowl Man the Centurion "as cool as it looks" would make me bring him off the shelf? HAH!! Hah! hah? Damn it. You're right. Maybe tonight. I feel so dirty.

[Sheer_Falacy]

Even ignoring that that's wasted with eSkarre, I'd probably pay 1 more point to get 1 more Rat, and crit catastrophic damage on melee anyway.

I just don't like characters to have redundancy with their caster. Ideally they'd be best with their own caster (though still reasonable with others), but given how rarely that happens I guess PP disagrees.

[Jake the Dog]

I like some of those Warjacks. But damn do a few seem extremely powerful.

[PG_petegrrrr]

It would be interesting to see what they think are the "answers" to what's broken about these models. I'm not seeing anything that really jumps out at me, other than some typos (the Sentinel has it's weapons reversed for example).

You don't see the problem in a 5 point model with 26 boxes that can generate up to 6 ranged attacks a turn at rat 7...all with armor piercing, who also has shield guard, and an assualt shield, but no shield bonus?



The issues are there, you just have to dig deep and try it out!

[DarkLegacy]

You don't see the problem in a 5 point model with 26 boxes that can generate up to 6 ranged attacks a turn at rat 7...all with armor piercing, who also has shield guard, and an assualt shield, but no shield bonus?



The issues are there, you just have to dig deep and try it out!

Well, it has the Shield bonus, it is just written "shield" under the shield. That jack is amazing.

[PG_petegrrrr]

That jack would make trollbloods very sad. It's special rules should just say "remove d6 medium based infantry from the board".

The Devout is likewise so over the top that it made me laugh a little. It would turn all of Menoth casters into better versions of Karchev

[DarkLegacy]

That jack would make trollbloods very sad. It's special rules should just say "remove d6 medium based infantry from the board".

The Devout is likewise so over the top that it made me laugh a little. It would turn all of Menoth casters into better versions of Karchev

Or it would say "Remove your warlock if you have less than 6 transfers available"...

[jandrese]

Well, it's still a Sentinel, so you'll still roll a 1 when you really need those extra shots.... Still nuts though.

Devoted Guardian is a completely half baked rule too, with a couple of tweaks that Devout could be quite reasonable.

[Vicomte Athos]

I'm guessing it would not be appropriate to write the feedback for the Cryx jacks as "They're fine because it's Cryx." No?

[Rapier]

The tight deadline should also be considered part of the test-- given enough time, anyone will eventually figure out what's wrong with the models. But it takes a special eye to catch all the mistakes within a short time window.

It's the same reason you only get two hours to write a final exam.

Not to mention that it demonstrates that your testing group has a certain level of commitment, and can be relied upon to give DC helpful feedback while it's still relevant. If internal testing leaves a question mark over a certain model and they have 9 days until the publisher wants the book (I doubt they actually leave things running that close, but you never know...), DC needs to know that he has an army of dedicated playtest gobbers who can answer any lingering questions before the clock runs out.

I accept this reasoning. It's why I don't have the time to try until September.

I'd also like to add - that NOT having affinity on a Jack is never going to make it feel character-fully linked to the chosen Warcaster - without a special rule linking them it won't ever have the fluff and rules working together.

The rule needs to do more than special issue (for warcasters without a warjack bond rule) too.

[x3tsniper]

The rule needs to do more than special issue (for warcasters without a warjack bond rule) too.

+1 to this. I hate seeing this on the jacks. I would have preferred you just left it blank. >.> I get all excited for nothing.

[MidnightFox0083]

The rule needs to do more than special issue (for warcasters without a warjack bond rule) too.

That part isn't just for models with auto-bonds.

[AJ the Ronin]

Swift Hunter and Strafe. Has that being ruled upon? (Yeah I know it does not work and the other model that has a similar rule to Strafe that is not an (*Attack) and can get Swift Hunter can not move outside its activation but I'm kind of curious how it would be ruled upon if it wasn't an special attack)

[PG_jamano]

I don't like how many of these are boring with no real abilities, playtesting is better suited to tweaking, rather than designing a new ability for something, and its hardly comprehensive to say "give this thing more abilities"

[PG_Viper114]

It would be my guess that since Swift Hunter says "...NORMAL ranged attack..." and Strafe is a *Attack and the rulebook considers these as Special attacks, then it wouldn't work.

[AJ the Ronin]

It would be my guess that since Swift Hunter says "...NORMAL ranged attack..." and Strafe is a *Attack and the rulebook considers these as Special attacks, then it wouldn't work.

Correct. Weird as hell, since to have those 2 rules combined since you will Strafe most often than not.

[Lord Tyrant peers]

Most of these will be getting playtested to death

[Sevwall]

Most of these will be getting playtested to death

Hopefully by the potential playtesters.

Guys, leave this stuff offline for now. It should be up to the individual groups to figure things out on thier own.

[VOLK]

Wow, Caine's Sentinel is outrageous. RAT 7 and now all attacks are POW6 AP instead of just POW10? For one more point? Incredible. I'd pay 6 for it easy.

The Devout with a couple of mechanics is also nauseating.

[Defenstrator]

I'm torn. On the one hand I'd really like to be part of the team. On the other one of my fellow players has already said he's not interested because he wants his games to be about fun, not work. And I can't say that he's wrong.

So while I'd love to help prevent another Triumph, if my group isn't interested that's that.

[Lord Tyrant peers]

I play with some really wise up rule freaks in my close circle of friends. It'll be harder to test them with just 2-4 rather than the 6+ I can play games with any time

[DemonCalibre]

Here is my personal question.

Play Test in context of what?

There are a bunch of spheres that you could play test in that will effect how you evaluate a model.

There is the Steam Roller 2012 environmental.(Common Format)
There is the Unlimited duration assassination game.(Common Format)
There is the "Is this model fun?" perspective.
There is the "Does this model feel like a character jack of it's respective caster" perspective.

I am pondering doing this, but I would really like more guidance of what arena we should be looking from, as each has a very valuable place. Some models have silly rules, but other have very strong rules but are drab.

[WarSmith7]

Here is my personal question.

Play Test in context of what?

Your best bet is to play them in standard steamroller format as well as casual assassination games.
For everything else, don't worry about it, I'm sure DC is just looking to test your abilities to see if you can gauge if the rules are solid or not. Remember, these are most likely not real models, don't think of them as having any sort of flavor or affinity for factions or warcasters. These are just stat blocks that need to be punched into the given faction formulas to see how they add up.

[PG_munkeee]

I've always thought that instead of having the special issue rule, they should give those jacks normal affinities and make a general rule that all theme lists may include any character warjack that has an affinity with the theme list warcaster. Unless otherwise stated.

[HellecticMojo]

Irusk with maurader and Zerkova with Devastator.

huh... didn't see that coming.

[GreenJello]

You know, it's interesting that everybody thinks that the Sentinel is broken, but it's fairly close to Cankerworm. Canker worm has +1 DEF +1 ARM but less boxes. It's AP attack is POW 11 instead of 6, has an additional POW 13 attack, Adapt, Stealth and Pathfinder. It's also 5 pts.

For the Sentinel, it might make sense to force the it to spend 1 Focus every time it uses the AP ability, but other that, and a ranged attack Cankerworm is a leg up, IMHO.

Bias warning, I play Cryx Cygnar and Trolls.

[Crate123]

You know, it's interesting that everybody thinks that the Sentinel is broken, but it's fairly close to Cankerworm. Canker worm has +1 DEF +1 ARM but less boxes. It's AP attack is POW 11 instead of 6, has an additional POW 13 attack, Adapt, Stealth and Pathfinder. It's also 5 pts.

For the Sentinel, it might make sense to force the it to spend 1 Focus every time it uses the AP ability, but other that, and a ranged attack Cankerworm is a leg up, IMHO.

Bias warning, I play Cryx Cygnar and Trolls.

You do realise that it gets d6 ap shots right ?

[Sheer_Falacy]

You know, it's interesting that everybody thinks that the Sentinel is broken, but it's fairly close to Cankerworm. Canker worm has +1 DEF +1 ARM but less boxes. It's AP attack is POW 11 instead of 6, has an additional POW 13 attack, Adapt, Stealth and Pathfinder. It's also 5 pts.

For the Sentinel, it might make sense to force the it to spend 1 Focus every time it uses the AP ability, but other that, and a ranged attack Cankerworm is a leg up, IMHO.

Bias warning, I play Cryx Cygnar and Trolls.

*Action AP <<< AP on every attack.

[Trollicious]

Should I take a hunter, or put snipe on this, save a point, and get an average of 3.5 times the output...?

And I can just see that devout now, cowering in a corner surrounded by mechanics with a wall of wracks around it while Feora engine of destructions her way through the enemy army on the other side of the table...

[DemonCalibre]

Should I take a hunter, or put snipe on this, save a point, and get an average of 3.5 times the output...?

And I can just see that devout now, cowering in a corner surrounded by mechanics with a wall of wracks around it while Feora engine of destructions her way through the enemy army on the other side of the table...

I am not worried about that Trollicious.

That ability doesn't specify enemy attack, Harbinger with 30+ wounds to martyrdom, and 3 mechanics to heal it, and a Hierphant to heal her, and they can sit in the corner of the board and do it.

Martyring 10+ times a turn, consistently every turn. No thanks man.

[PG_Duckboy]

Sounds like fun. I will be trying to get a group together.

[jandrese]

I am not worried about that Trollicious.

That ability doesn't specify enemy attack, Harbinger with 30+ wounds to martyrdom, and 3 mechanics to heal it, and a Hierphant to heal her, and they can sit in the corner of the board and do it.

Martyring 10+ times a turn, consistently every turn. No thanks man.

One interesting thing is that it is not optional, so the Hierophant won't be able to heal her until the jack is dead.

Honestly though, it's a halfbaked rule period. A more realistic version would have a distance requirement and only work on enemy attacks and only work once per turn. It may or may not be optional too, that's something playtesters would have to flesh out. If it always triggers on the first time the Harbinger takes damage (like Enliven), then it won't be that hard to work around. If she gets to choose then it can be a little more strategic, and is basically a single free transfer every turn until the jack is dead.

[jandrese]

I am not worried about that Trollicious.

That ability doesn't specify enemy attack, Harbinger with 30+ wounds to martyrdom, and 3 mechanics to heal it, and a Hierphant to heal her, and they can sit in the corner of the board and do it.

Martyring 10+ times a turn, consistently every turn. No thanks man.

One interesting thing is that it is not optional, so the Hierophant won't be able to heal her until the jack is dead.

Honestly though, it's a halfbaked rule period. A more realistic version would have a distance requirement and only work on enemy attacks and only work once per turn. It may or may not be optional too, that's something playtesters would have to flesh out. If it always triggers on the first time the Harbinger takes damage (like Enliven), then it won't be that hard to work around. If she gets to choose then it can be a little more strategic, and is basically a single free transfer every turn until the jack is dead.

[2LiveIs2Die]

I would pay good money for that stalker to be real. I like killing warlocks in my sleep.

[Rochr]

Sentinel with D6 shots and armour piercing... almost wet my panties there. Then I woke up.