Questions about War Room, Tournaments.

[Rockhound]

Good evening,
As the title suggests, I have some questions about War Room being used in tournaments. I don't have a device that will allow me to use War Room, and I don't want to have to buy a device just to use it. Honestly, I don't want it. I love using my cards. The physical form of them, knowing that they'll be accurate to anyone who asks. "Need to know what my Army list is? Here's my sheet, quick and easy." Don't get me wrong, War room seems to be a very practical and useful tool to some people. The ability to "share" army lists between devices seems awesome. Alas, you won't be able to share with me.

My biggest problem would be during tournaments. I'm dependent on seeing my opponents cards as I don't have the mental capacity to memorize everyone's "Forces of..." books. But with War Room being released soon, I've been reading about how a majority of them won't even bring cards with them anymore. I don't feel comfortable handling someone else's smartphones/tablets/whatever. If you get a phone call during the match and I have a question about something in your army, I'm stuck. (Big "what if", but it could happen). If your phone dies, what then? I've played quite a bit in the last year or so since I've gotten into the game, but even now everyone (I mean everyone) will have to reference their cards for something. Will using War Room speed up references times, or hinder them?

Am I going to be forced to either buy a new device (with a service plan if necessary) or purchase a bunch of force books and memorize what each army does just to know what other armies can do?

I apologize for the rant. I just don't want to have to invest so much into something that I can't afford.

[MidnightFox0083]

At least for official events, ff you want to see their card, they have to hand it(edit: the device) over. If their device dies, they lose.

[PG_jamano]

At least for official events, ff you want to see their card, they have to hand it over. If their device dies, they lose.

They aren't required to have cards if they have war room

[MidnightFox0083]

They aren't required to have cards if they have war room

Yes, the "it" refers to the device.

[PG_General Nemo]

Most people will still likely have their cards for back-up given the threat of an auto-loss. I wouldn't worry about it. That and you should probably get used to handling (read "looking at the device while it sits on the table") other peoples' devices.

[Fearless]

It's one of the major things I don't like about War Room.

Given that cards come with all the models I think you should be required to bring physical cards. And I know that at any event my club runs they will be.

I'm not comfortable handing over my tablet or holding someone else's. Also....there is something about physical paper/cards that just feels so much more real to me. I do some reading on my iPad but I much prefer real books.

And...it also works on smart phones right? It's a lot harder to get a quick glance at someones cards on a iphone that it is on a table.

And....I can always glance at your cards on your side of the table to get a quick sense of what's damaged etc. I can't do that with your tablet...

Yeah....really really not a fan.

[Dragon2439]

The only thing you will HAVE to do with war room is getting used to seeing it and handling other peoples devices. Being familiar with it and being able to use it would be helpful. A lot of people will probably bring cards as a back up, but not everyone.


And if a person got a phone call mid game, why would war room interfere? Wouldnt they be too busy with the phone call to answer a question anyway?

[PG_Asa]

One thing though, if the device dies and you still have physical cards you still lose because damage is not marked.
That said, I will still use the heck out of war room. Without cards, no safety nets here people!

[Spike77]

Given that cards come with all the models I think you should be required to bring physical cards. And I know that at any event my club runs they will be.

To me this equates to saying well we only allow war room at our game club so if you bring cards you must still also bring war room and that is still equally unfair especially when PP has said that in any organized event war room counts as cards. Folks get used to the tech, you do not have to like it or even own it, but if you are going to play the game you must get used to it and accept it. Once I have tested it and if it works to my liking I will only use war room, want to look at my cards, then here is my tablet, in a nice otter case i might add so you can not wreck it, don't want to grab it fine, I will place it on the table in front of you with the appropriate card open.

If you do not want to play against me because I only carry war room, your loss, no skin of my back, if you do this in a tourney, then you forfeit that round same as I forfeit if I do not want to play against you because you do no carry war room (I would never do that by the way)

Sorry if this is long winded but I have been at work for 12 hours, and I am on my third drink. (I own a game store and wed night is board game night and BYOB)

GAME ON

P.S. you want to run an event at my store, you accept both players that want to use war room exclusively and those that want to use cards exclusively.

[Corpazious]

War Room should not be legal for tournaments. There are too many inconviences and things that can go wrong. I would HATE to play against someone who didn't have/use the cards during a game, tourny or not. (Yes I have an iPhone, but physical cards are still better for gameplay, and what about those who don't have a smart phone who play against War Room users?)

Privateer is usually great at making the right call for things, but there has been a few very "incorrect" decisions they've made, and this is one of them.

[razcalking]

I'll just consider someone using War Room at a tourney one more chance for me to get a win - and hey, I need all the help I can get! Here's hoping you're not paying attention to the little power bar.

[PG_RevGeoff]

War Room is official, so if it is an "official" tourney it should be allowed to be used without restrictions. If your club makes people bring their cards and doesn't support War Room (which by making it mandatory that the cards are there you are saying you don't support it) then that is fine too...it is your club and personally I would still come play.

For me, this will be one of the first times that I am not dragged kicking and screaming into some technological upgrade. Instead I'm jumping feet first. I hope my iPad doesn't break when I land on it.

[computertrucker]

iPads can ru for 2 days on a charge, it's one of their perks. Don't know about other tablets. I doubt power will be a problem at least for iPad users.

[Gooby]

Given that cards come with all the models I think you should be required to bring physical cards. And I know that at any event my club runs they will be.

I myself have received several warmachine items with the original ruleset cards in them, sometimes even the really old black and white cards. So the only way I would have cards is if I bought my faction deck. Which is I think like $15. I consider war room to be the same as buying your faction deck. Just digital, like buying eBook versions of other games rulebooks. It also has the added bonus that it is always the most up to date(at least thats how it is advertised.)

Everyone has these weird hang ups about handling other peoples devices, or have the assumption that everyone is going to have a problem sharing information? Maybe I just live in an area where people are nicer or something... but are people actually this rude and unaccommodating when you're actually playing? I often am asking over the table "what are your abilities on this unit... whats his health... whats his defense..." and people gladly reply with a smile, and ask the same of me. Most of the rulesets I have read about tournaments require good sportsmanship as part of the rules(I believe its also mentioned in the beginning of the MKII book)... so I would imagine being a jerk about people asking for information, or asking to see your stuff would be against this rule.

[Poppabear40]

I will use war room in tournies... but to have quick access to my opponents army list without bothering them. I will have my cards for my list and mark damage on them. Best of both worlds and I will get to play withbthe latest toybwhen it ever comes out... on a mobile device, sorry for spelling errors....

[MidnightFox0083]

So the only way I would have cards is if I bought my faction deck.

Or if you went on the PP site and filled out the form for a replacement.

[Gooby]

Or if you went on the PP site and filled out the form for a replacement.

I didn't know those counted as mispacks... since you technically got the card... just was the old one. I suppose I do that, but I still don't really view it as any different from buying the faction deck. Yes its digital, but its still being represented in the physical world on a device you can hold. It's not it is being beamed straight into the users mind for only them to access.

[haruspex]

With respect you don't appear to have a clear understanding of War Room's capabilities.

And...it also works on smart phones right? It's a lot harder to get a quick glance at someones cards on a iphone that it is on a table.

And....I can always glance at your cards on your side of the table to get a quick sense of what's damaged etc. I can't do that with your tablet...

A major strength of the War Room is the In-Game Damage Tracking and List Sharing from your own device.
This allows you to view any of the cards and effects/damage on them without the need to request.
Not to mention link directly to the associated rules.

As a side note, comparing reading a book to reading on an LCD or similar screen is not a comparison with merit
Compare it to reading on something using eInk and that would be a fair comparison.

[haruspex]

... but to have quick access to my opponents army list without bothering them. I will have my cards for my list and mark damage on them.

So you are going to mark down damage in the app AND on the cards?

[Dragon2439]

So you are going to mark down damage in the app AND on the cards?

He will use war room to track his opponents list, rules and damage while using his cards for his stuff.

Doing it this way removes every single complaint about war room while making it easier on your opponent since you dont need to ask them about a rule, ability or model

[CHUD]

For anyone planning on running events that WON'T allow War Room, please be sure you list that fact several times in any postings of the tourney. I can imagine the rage that would happen if someone showed up via word of mouth & was told they couldn't play because they didn't have cards.

[tiger8380]

I will be honest, if you run an event and don't allow an official item to be used, then I won't play your event. I highly discourage this activity because it's a slippery slope to "well I don't allow Deathjack because he is OP" or some other such nonsense like that. This is the digital era, anyone not used to it yet should get used to it cause things not having physical copies is just going to become more and more prevalent.

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it is. But I wouldn't be surprised to see in the next couple years, minis not even coming with cards and cards being a "bonus feature" that you have to buy separately.

Now I am not a huge fan of War room for some other reasons, namely not permitting me to build lists without purchasing, it feels very money grubby to me. I have thought about not supporting it but I sadly don't have that as an option, it's going to be a part of this game (whether you or I like it or not). If you want to play the game you have to understand that this is a part of it. It's not a minor part either. If you can't or don't want to use it that's fine but be ready for others to do so and be ready to accept that it's going to happen. I don't see why you wouldn't feel safe using their device, I mean if you are really clumsy (which is totally OK! my wife is) then just use it over the table very close to the surface, away from minis, and you are fine. Think of it like holding another persons mini, just be very careful.

Anyway, sorry to go on like that if it was over the top a little. Feel free to flame or say I'm crazy. I will accept it for all it's worth.

[PG_General Nemo]

I think the thing about this that we all seem to be missing is the T.O.'s discretionary power. The document does allow for the clause "recovered in a reasonable time frame" in the case of battery outages, and it would be pretty simple to just plug whatever device in. If you, as a player, failed to plan for that, well, that is just too bad.

It's allowed. If player A doesn't like the rules for some tournament, he or she is not obligated to play in it. Adaptation or another tournament elsewhere becomes the only option for the needlessly outraged tournament goer. Honestly, this is the silliest thing to cry about, in my opinion.

[Magnus0740]

I will more than likely bring both War Room and my cards with me to events. If my opponant has war room then I will use it. If not, I'll use the cards and keep my tablet for me to read from rather than kill my eyes reading the small print on the cards.

[PG_petegrrrr]

If you bring war room and not the cards, whatever happens is on you.

Honestly, even once I own it, I would never go to an event without physical cards just in case my device froze/died/ran out of battery, etc.

[PG_Gannon]

If you bring war room and not the cards, whatever happens is on you.

Honestly, even once I own it, I would never go to an event without physical cards just in case my device froze/died/ran out of battery, etc.

This is the smartest thing to do. You should always have a backup to any hardware device.

[Rockhound]

Good evening again,
I didn't mean to start such an uproar. I understand the "going higher tech" argument. It's an evolution that's become necessary. It's economical to save paper and produce things in a digital format. Updates are readily available without relying on printing. I was really just wanting to know how those of us without access to War Room be able to play against players who are using the App; as well as my concern for buying a device - that's not even associated with the game or company - to be able to even play Warmahordes.

[x3tsniper]

One thing you could do is bring your tablet and your cards, and just give your cards to your opponent for the fight, so he won't even have to ask. Remember to get them back though. Oo

[Mustakrakish]

Those of you without the app playing against a person with the app will just have to take some time to be familiar with the app when you can and just be a cool dude?

[scout's honor]

War Room should not be legal for tournaments. There are too many inconviences and things that can go wrong. I would HATE to play against someone who didn't have/use the cards during a game, tourny or not. (Yes I have an iPhone, but physical cards are still better for gameplay, and what about those who don't have a smart phone who play against War Room users?)

Speaking as someone who is unlikely to adopt War Room any time soon (I can't justify the cost of a smart device at the moment), I'd say those inconveniences and things that can go wrong are fairly few in number and easy to take into account. My device, my responsibility - that pretty much covers it. Why are physical cards necessarily better for gameplay? Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought we still know very little about how War Room will work in practice.

As for earlier comments I saw about receiving a phone call during a game: at events I set my $40 cheapo phone to redirect everything immediately to voicemail. Does anyone actually take calls in the middle of a competitive game?

[tiger8380]

[QUOTE=As for earlier comments I saw about receiving a phone call during a game: at events I set my $40 cheapo phone to redirect everything immediately to voicemail. Does anyone actually take calls in the middle of a competitive game?[/QUOTE]

I think that I would be pretty upset with the person unless it was clearly super important. If the convo starts like "OMG is she/he OK!?!?!" or "OMG I WILL BE RIGHT THERE". Then I don't mind otherwise, I expect their death clock to keep running.

[PG_Azhdeen]

For those not willing to bring physical cards to an official tournament, consider your device dying in round 1; of a 4 round tournament. You might as well go home right there and then, as no one is obligated to 'lending' you theirs; not even the TO. Until it is released and out in the open market, speculation will abound; along with the fears of 'what might happen'. Until something does happen, I'm just gonna keep doing what I do, with the tools I already have; cards, plastic pockets and marker pen.

[Blighted Tyrant]

Ok, so I own a smartphone, I use it all the time for anything from phone calls to E-mail but I wont be using it for Warroom. I think allowing the application in tournaments is a damn stupid idea, especially when the state of wifi connectivity is so low that I would have to use my 3G allowance to play a game when i could easily use my Cards which are fundamentally free.

Besides that there is the issue of over dependance on quirky applications. I don't care if you want to be hip and use the App thats fine you do as you wish, but if you bemoan handing me your phone/tablet because I have chosen to use cards then you can take a long walk off a short pier. The moment TO's make Warroom mandatory to play I will quit. Not every one has the disposable income to purchase a tablet (as some people have suggests) to simply run an App that does nothing you couldn't do with a calculator and your cards.

And frankly if you are in such a frothing digital age fan boy state you wont attend a tournament were the preferred (read only) method of tracking damage is the cards you have used since you began playing the game, then no loss. I probably didn't want to play you anyway, you seem like the perfect example of the kind of person I despise.

[rwould]

A lot of assumptions made in this thread, some of which we know are wrong (like needing WiFi/3G to actually use War Room).

I am adopting a 'Wait And See' approach. I may end up using cards, I may end up finding I prefer marking damage using War Room. But for me whatever happens the ability to see my opponents cards at any time and check things during their turn makes it invaluable. Not for damage marking but just for saving all my questions on what their things can do. I would also imagine I'd bring my cards for my opponent to see as generally that will be easier for them than viewing on an electronic device they may not be familiar with.

[Blighted Tyrant]

A lot of assumptions made in this thread, some of which we know are wrong (like needing WiFi/3G to actually use War Room).

OK, I'll run with this. How else are you going to connect to the game sever so you can share data with the opponents device? Because as stated in the FAQ, it is not a direct link between the two devices but a link to a server where the game information is handled.

Unless you plan on doing this by carrier pigeon, pray-tell how do you plan on doing it without WiFi or 3G?

[Jota]

I am not a fan regarding the tournament part. I will not be surprised if threads regarding tournament etiquette and Warroom starts popping up after release - time is a powerful tool in timed/deathclock games and to hand over the control over your time to the opponent is a bad thing. That is what you will do when, during your own turn, you ask someone to scroll to the card in question and hand over their device to you. Devious players will get an easy opportunity to kill your time far beyond was is possible with physical cards. Or if you you use Warrom exclusively its your time that will be used up to scroll things if your opponent asks for cards during your turn.

I do not like the risk for the above to occur, and thats why I am not a fan of Warroom in tournament play as outlined in the SR rules.

[rwould]

OK, I'll run with this. How else are you going to connect to the game sever so you can share data with the opponents device? Because as stated in the FAQ, it is not a direct link between the two devices but a link to a server where the game information is handled.

Unless you plan on doing this by carrier pigeon, pray-tell how do you plan on doing it without WiFi or 3G?

Your previous objection was that you cannot play a game with war room without 3G connectivity/WiFi. That is errant according to the FAQ. You cannot use the sharing of data with another device but you can have all the cards and record your information on your own device (which would be sufficient to play a game).

[Wishing]

I have thought about not supporting it but I sadly don't have that as an option, it's going to be a part of this game (whether you or I like it or not). If you want to play the game you have to understand that this is a part of it.

Even though it is implied, I think it is worth pointing out that there is a difference between "playing the game" and "being part of the scene".

The way I see it, the default way to play the game is for two young geeks to be in a game store, spot the game on the shelf, and either purchase two battle boxes or a two-player starter. They then go home, assemble and paint their models, and have many hours of fun battling it out with their models and dice. End of story. That is "playing the game". And for this, Warroom is completely and utterly optional. If the two geeks prefer having the cards on their phones, they can get the app, if not, they can use the cards that come with the box. Or one can get the app and the other not, or whatever. The point is that nothing is mandatory.

"Being part of the scene" means being connected to a greater community and participating in organised events in different locations. PP have made it clear that as far as they are concerned, WR is just as valid as cards, and WM scenes tend to take what PP says as gospel... for this reason I agree that if you want to be part of the scene, you should probably get used to WR, because you're going to run into it a lot.

But that is not the same as saying that WR is/will be an integrated, non-optional part of the game. If the game ever gets to a stage where it says "Note: You need a smartphone or similar device to play" on the front of a core WM product, I will be very disappointed.

[Tyrfigr]

Here is another scenario that might actually happen quite a bit.

Lets say that in the first round of a tournament, I ask to see someones cards and they hand me an iPad. Then due to either Murphy's Law/stuff happens/even careless I drop their device and it breaks. So now that person auto loses the tournament? Who is held responsible for the broken device? How are TOs going to handle a situation like that? PP just put me in a very uncomfortable position where I might break someones device. That is why I don't touch other peoples models either, because of Murphy's Law.

What if the roles are reversed? I will be very pissed if my iPad gets broken, even more so on round 1. I like another person's idea, use warroom for your opponents stuff and have cards for yours. But that does mean that I have to buy every faction.

[Blighted Tyrant]

Your previous objection was that you cannot play a game with war room without 3G connectivity/WiFi. That is errant according to the FAQ. You cannot use the sharing of data with another device but you can have all the cards and record your information on your own device (which would be sufficient to play a game).

That is one facet of a larger objection, but seen as you wish to be persnickety then I will elaborate my point so there is not further misunderstanding. To use Warroom as fully intended you must use the connective elements, other wise what is the point in the application?

My point is made with the parameters of War room being used in a tournament setting, where if it is to be used to its fullest extent (and the only extent in which it can fully replace the Cards, for sharing of information), it will require a link to the server base which can only be obtained via WiFi or 3G.

Now if you wish to argue the rather flaccid point that War room can be used simply to track damage without the connective element, you can but you will be going beyond the set boundaries of example and as such the argument made is invalid.

In a tournament where War room is going to be the only method of tracking damage, sharing information and thusly playing the game. Merely marking damage hand handing over the device is not good enough. The App was built to include this transfer of information in order to play in a connective manner, to enforce mandatory use of War room with the connective element lacking is pointless, and as I have already pointed out, the height of new age progressivism (It is new there for it must be used).