Critical Catatrophic Damage vs Gargantuans!

[Kevan]

So i just realized that the Wroughthammer Rockram has one of the best tools around to kill Gargantuans. Seems like Ossram and FfE or snipe can really put some hurt into big point beast from safe distance.

[Syas]

Depends on the situation - Stormwall with Arcane Shield only takes 3 damage from average dice on a Boosted Rockram shot; even if you crit, the amount of damage you do isn't going to be necessarily significant, compare that to Gorten putting Strength of Granite on the Driller, he does 8 Damage on average dice on the charge with his Grappler, 9 on a boosted-Drill from Thor and then buys another 2 auto-hit Drills for 12 more damage. That puts 27 damage on the Stormwall, considering that each side only has 28 health, you only need to be a little lucky to clear an entire side.

Gargantuans are in an even worse situation since they have large spirals instead of doubles. If you figure something like the Mountain King is Arm 21 with the KSB, you are averaging 4 damage per shot (and spawning a Whelp). So you would need to hit a spiral with 3 boxes left or less, and while that is awesome when it happens, again the Driller with Strength of Granite outshines it - now that 27 damage becomes 31 damage, which is 3 spirals gone. Heck, against the Woldwrath it could potentially clear 4 spirals.

The Rockram need some luck on it's side, both in attack rolls, damage rolls, and column damaged.

When you absolutely, positively, must ruin a Colossal/Gargantuan's day, accept no substitute, Driller takes the cake.

[CareyBear]

Crit Stagger is the one I've noted as being of significant interest. That's a serious loss to a colossal with 5 or 6 initials. A jack with 1 initial attack doesn't really care.
Some of the other edge case spells that have 'lose initials' as a crit or effect will see more play too.

The point about Gargantuans is that they have spirals with 10-12 boxes on them! a Crit Catastrophic has the potential to do - not the 1-5 additional of a Jack or Colossal - but 1-11 additional damage.. Rare, but the potential is there.

[Kevan]

There was a reason i didnt say Colossals and CareyBear pointed it out. But as mercs its just nice to see a corner case ability have potential to Really shine vs 1/2 the games new fun toys.

[Syas]

There was a reason i didnt say Colossals and CareyBear pointed it out. But as mercs its just nice to see a corner case ability have potential to Really shine vs 1/2 the games new fun toys.

Fair - I edited my reply to include results vs. the Woldwrath and Mountain King.

The point about Gargantuans is that they have spirals with 10-12 boxes on them! a Crit Catastrophic has the potential to do - not the 1-5 additional of a Jack or Colossal - but 1-11 additional damage.. Rare, but the potential is there.

While it is more detrimental when it happens, it is still a Crit effect that you get one chance at a turn, even in a best possible case scenario, you have to Crit multiple turns in a row. I wouldn't take a Rockram against a Gargantuan for the Crit, I wouldn't mind getting lucky a few times with it though

It also worth mentioning that even with Snipe it is fairly easy for the Woldwrath and the Mountain King to retaliate. I think it is a neat idea, I just don't think it is reliable or worth including for the potential. If it happens, awesome, but I wouldn't throw a Rockram in a list for this purpose.

[nicholas_342]

As CareyBear pointed out, the crit stagger is the effect I'm looking for. You have more chances to get it and taking away a colossal's initial attacks will hurt it as well. No sweeps to threaten any forgeguard that might be in melee as well. And a tuned up SoG rockram is doing pretty close to the same damage as the driller. Sure the driller auto hit's but what are the odd's of mat 6 missing a colossal. Yes it can happen, but not often.

The flip side of the coin is Ossrum's got a better chance of getting either jack into melee with a colossal.

[Syas]

The reason I prefer the Driller is the second initial in melee. Crit Stagger is definitely better against Gargantuans, against Colossals though I would prefer to collapse an entire side, removing 3 attacks until it is repaired rather than relying on a Crit to drop 2-4 for a turn.

[Centa]

In the case of a charge, the Wroughthammer has a second initial too, coz you can assualt your target. Thats a POW15 with crit catastrophical damage, and a P+S 18 boosted from the charge. Compared to a P+S 16 and 17.
On averanged rolls without the crit, they do the same damage with their initials, and with each further attack the Rockram goes ahead for one point each.

I can see an advantage for the Driller, when facing models with DEF 12+, but against Colossals and Gargantuans the Rockram is the better jack to go, but also he cost 2pts more then a Driller. And thats the point why the Rockram isnt played as much as the Driller is.

This might change when all the Colossals and Gargantuans are released and some players got one.

[Syas]

In a vacuum they do the same damage with their initials, I think the outweigh on damage potential comes from the Strength of Granite (which is what I ran the numbers under), that means we are now talking about P&S 20 vs. P15. From a damage output perspective I think the Driller with SoG will outdo the Wroughthammer most of the time; Rockram can do efficient damage, but again, I will take reliably decimating half a Colossal/Gargantuan over relying on crits.

When it comes down to dice, Driller does better on average dice, and it does it consistently, for the Rockram to match it's damage output it needs to not only get a crit (44% chance on 3 dice), but it needs to hit a worthwhile spiral. Boosted Open Fist on the Driller with SoG is already collapsing at least 1 spiral/2 columns reliably (average dice). The extra damage on average dice is also making sure you can destroy a side/3 spirals, reliably.

Rockram has the shock factor, and it can, when it gets lucky be more Focus efficient, but the Driller delivers reliable results.

[mosez]

the problem is, to reliable get the crit off, you need to tune up the attack rolls of the rockram. and i almost cannot think of a situation where i would not rather tune up the damage rolls before sending it towards a collossal/gargantuan. the crit is nice, but i'd never count on it...

[Ricky Racoon]

What if you had fire for effect on it? Gives you a boosted assault, with boosted damage, and then you keep wailing with the hammer. You're not likely to miss.

[Centa]

You are right Ricky, I forgot about the SoG. Thats 4 dmg more with initials on the Driller. And after buying 2 additional attacks, the Driller is still 2dmg ahead of the Rockram.
Under Redline they do the same damage. And used with Ossrum, the Rockram goes ahead.
But in all these cases, you still have 4times a chance on a great crit effect. Both jacks wont kill a Colossal or Gargantuan at their own. But the Rockram is more likely to survive the retaliation.
As allready mentioned, Stagger against a Colossal is just awesome, they lose so many attacks. With only 3 attacks they wont kill any of Rhulics heavy jacks, and they cant Sweep our Infantry, so you can run up some Forgeguard in melee if you got the crit.

I do not say, replace all Driller with Rockrams, but its allways a benefit to upgrade one Driller to a Rockram. In 90% of my lists, when i field only one beatstick, its a Driller, coz its an awesome jack for dirt cheap 6pts. If i take more, i try to get the Wroughthammer in.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Against Gargantuans, if you crit with the catastrophic damage boosting damage is pointless usually. So maybe Pronto and JM to hit?