counter charge

[frostaxe]

Real quick. Lets say a Carnivean charges a target and uses assualt. A drakhun counter charges the carnivean (drak not the charge target). Will the carnivean then be able to use his range attack since he is now in melee?

Thanks

[SageofLodoss]

It has been confirmed by infernals that Assault ignores all 'in melee' restrictions of ranged attacks. So yes, the Carnivean would get to make the Assault Spray, and then his activation would end if he is not in melee with his charge target.

[Coffee_twitch]

@ Sageloss: not if the Drakhun goes and counter charges the Carnivian, then he would've failed the charge on the intended charge model, but could continue attacking the Drakhun.

The rest of what SageLoss said about the assualt is true though

[Valander]

@ Sageloss: not if the Drakhun goes and counter charges the Carnivian, then he would've failed the charge on the intended charge model, but could continue attacking the Drakhun.

Assuming the Carnivean did not target the Drakhun for the charge (which in the OP, it wasn't), if the Carnivean ends its movement without its declared charge target in its melee range, it will end its activation after making the Assault shot. It can not continue attacking the Drakhun in this case.

[Coffee_twitch]

Out of curiosity, is this because he decided to use the assault? If (in the OP) the carnivian charged normally he would be able to attack the Drakhun after the counter charge, correct?

[PG_LEJKaya]

If a model ends its charge move and is not in melee range of its charge target the charge has failed. It doesn't matter what happens after that, the charge has failed and its activation ends (In this case after assault shot as that specifically says it happens on a failed charge).

If the carnivean had charged and not assaulted it would still have failed if its target was not in melee range at the end of its movement. It can't attack the Drakhun either way because its activation ends.

[solkan]

Out of curiosity, is this because he decided to use the assault? If (in the OP) the carnivian charged normally he would be able to attack the Drakhun after the counter charge, correct?

When the carnivian charges, the charge mechanics require it to nominate a single model as its charge target, and then events unfold according to the charge rules. Whether or not you choose to use the assault rules, another model using counter charge has no effect on whether the charge fails. When you end your movement, you determine whether the charge succeeded or failed. If for some reason your charge target decided to counter charge you, whether the charge succeeded or failed does not change.

In short, no, the use of the assault rules has nothing to do with that.

Edit: Ninja'd by LEJKaya.

[Coffee_twitch]

Ah I see, I just got home and read through the charge rules again. I was mis-interpreting the final paragraph of the charge rules (pg 47 from Prime):

"If the charging model cannot make its first melee attack against the charge target, the charging model can make its first melee attack against another eligible target, but this is not a charge attack"

I see now though. Thanks everyone for the correction and setting me on the proper path

[PG_The Captain]

Ah I see, I just got home and read through the charge rules again. I was mis-interpreting the final paragraph of the charge rules (pg 47 from Prime):



I see now though. Thanks everyone for the correction and setting me on the proper path

Yes, the rule you quoted is e.g. for situations where the Carnivean makes it into melee with its charge target (determine success of charge at this point), kills it with the assault shot and then has no charge target remaining. In that case the Carnivean can make its attacks against the drakhun instead.

[SageofLodoss]

The question was in regards to the Carnivean getting his ranged attack. Nothing about melee attacks. My answer was geared towards that. A failed charge has nothing to do with the Carnivean getting his Assault shot or not. The assault charge will fail, but since he wasn't already engaged with his assault target when he began, he has all the requirements met for getting an assault shot off before his activation ends.