Facing Trolls for the first time, now what?

[Sanguinary Dan]

I'm going to be facing Trolls with my Menites for the first time next week. I'm almost certain to have to deal with Mulg but beyond that I don't know what else he'll bring. My plan was to rely on our ability to set things on fire to counteract on his infantry. I figure even if he passes the 4 or 5+ roll he will still be on fire giving me another chance to kill him before he activates.

But I'm a little caster and troop limited. For warcasters I only own Kreoss (both) and Reznik. And for infantry I've only got KEE w/UA and Cinerators. I've got at least one of most warjacks and a reasonable selection of solos.

So what do you folks suggest for dealing with these blue bastids? Drown him in Menoth's Fury and heavy jacks or go toe to toe and rely on and magic to do the job?

[Silverstar843]

Kill support, watch for tramples, kill support, watch for champions, and kill support

[paradox]

Silence of Death.

[darisus]

Kill the Krielstone, janissa, and moses... after that they really aren't as bad... Kind of like playing protectorate...

[Bollster]

If you can scalpel out that krielstone and it's cronies, you're on the way to victory. Other than Champions and their own heavies, Trolls are often intimidated by walls of heavy jacks. I'd recommend taking Reznik and 'jacking it up, especially with two frontline units to gum up their works.

[PG_marijnh]

zerg dire-trolls, kill support, and attrition out the rest. Watch for viable assassination when he can't transfer, might save you a lot of trouble. Be careful though; if conditions aren't optimal you'll either bodge the attempt or run into a lucky tough (t)roll.

[TheConstantWay]

Trolls usually take the Kriel Stone Bearer, and often its UA, which can make everything within 10" of it immune to Fire. So, I don't recommend counting on Cont: Fire to do much, if anything, for you. What you want is volume of attacks. Your Errants+UA should serve you well. You might consider Kreoss2. His feat could help you make mincemeat of those usually-tough trollios.

If at all possible, you want a way of reaching into his back lines and killing off his support. If you have Nicia, I highly recommend her for the job. Also, consider a Repenter. Those RAT 7 POW 14 sprays give trolls a bad time even if they do decide to make themselves immune to fire. With their medium bases, you'll almost always catch a good number in the spray.

My experience with playing 'jack-heavy Reznik vs. trolls is that I get jammed up and worn down. I usually run with a Reckoner, Vanquisher, and either a Templar or the Avatar, and when a unit of fennblades has been rammed into your lines, it's difficult for your heavies to smash the faces you want them to be smashing. Trolls also likely out-threat you thanks to Rush (the Axer's animus, +2" movement and pathfinder), so there's a decent chance you'll lose a heavy before you get to take down one of theirs. Finally, trolls usually don't cast many offensive spells, so Reznik's Witch Hound likely won't even come up. So all in all, I can't really recommend Reznik for most troll match-ups.

pKreoss often wants to rely on his feat for assassination, but troll warlocks are often incredibly sturdy (high inherent defensive stats, +2 ARM from the Kriel Stone Bearer's aura, cover from Janissa), so the pop-and-drop might not be the way to go. Also, be aware that one of their basic infantry, troll warriors, is Steady, so they won't even be affected by the feat. Still, pKreoss is toolboxy enough that I don't think he would be a poor choice.

That leaves eKreoss, who basically is a walking feat button. But in an army of weapon-masters fighting against tough units, sometimes that's just what the doctor ordered. It would also help you bring down Mulg or a brick list thanks to the extra auto-hitting attacks.

[SnakeEyes]

I bet your opponent brings eDoomshaper and his auto-build net deck list - Mulg, Earthborn, Mauler, Janissa, and some other junk. It's easy to run and very powerful. If it is this list he will be able to assassinate you will Mulg from very far away. And it's normally tough to go against with a balanced list because it is on an extreme end of the list spectrum - heavy spam (vs. infantry spam). And takes advantage of (abuses) the fury over focus mechanic.
In this case, really, either of your available casters is good - pKreoss or Reznik. Then just load up on ranged jacks and go for the assassination. If the assassination doesn't prevent itself, you'll have to focus fire on the heavies. But he will alpha strike your jacks so you really need to Enliven them if you have Vassals. If not, you'll have to block with those Cinerators.

And eDoomie aside, Trolls do like a good amount of support in the back. So things that can get back there are good - Daughters, Nicia, etc. But you don't have those. So go with a Redeemer or two, if you have them, so you can hit those backline and weaken that synergy. Trollbloods and Skorne ARE the synergy factions. So take that stuff out if you can.

[Butte]

Every time I play against hordes, I sent every thing after his beast and after they are gone its a walk in the park. I Have tied up a unit of champions with a reckoner with DW up, he couldnt scratch it.

[jandrese]

One thing to be careful of: I've never fought a Krielstone unit that didn't make 3/4 of its tough checks. The rest of the army may suck at tough rolls, but that stupid unit just never ever dies. The last time I managed to finally wipe out a Krielstone unit it was only because they were surrounding eMadrak and I had a bunch of shots at him.

Also, watch out for anything with Reach in eMadrak's army. Chance are turn two it is going to run up into your lines after some Impalers or Bombers make a few troll sized holes in it and then he is going to walk up and pop his feat. Don't think you can assassinate eMadrak either, it's impossible to kill him until practically his whole army is dead. The Protectorate doesn't have anything with Drag or Telekinesis or something that can scalpel him out of his brick like other factions.

Oh, and the last thing in that eDoomie netdeck list is Burrowers. Those little buggers are also nigh impossible to deal with when they're off the board half of the time and making tough checks the other half.

[allenamenvergeben]

Also remember there are alot of players who play fun and balanced lists and no lame powergamer net lists

[Sanguinary Dan]

I didn't know they could make themselves immune to fire! Poop. That rather negates some of my plan. So Castigator is out. And Vanquisher as well I suppose.

For reaching his support models I can field one or two Sunbursts. And they are probably pretty good against his beasts. At first anyway.

So assuming I go with eKreoss (way higher comfort level as I've never fielded Reznik) do I need 3 warjacks or will two be enough assuming I field the Avatar and Fire of Salvation? For the list using three I'd probably drop the Avatar and bring Fire, a Reckoner and a Templar. Menoth knows I'd sell your souls to have a Judicator.

[Wulfy]

Simple answer, buy Thyra. I played Thyra for the first time a few weeks ago and it was against trolls. I just swept the board with her. Seriously screws with troll standard play. Used one unit of sisters that took out the entire unit including Krell stone in one turn. That is what? Triple their points. Just walked up in stealth, some extra thyra spells and BAM, game is almost over. HIGHLY recommend you take out MULG fast. Do NOT let him get the charge. Keep the area in front of your jacks filled with some troops to force him to wade through them. We were playing kill box so he was forced to wade into them. Then they get out of the way, charge with Reckoner, finish with charging Vanquisher and he was done. Did it two games in a row. Cleansers stay in front with clouds sisters charge through them to clear anything in the way, then everyone clears out for my heavies to charge mulg.

Star of the show was Thyrs, followed closely by sisters that hit you and you cannot regenerate. Nice. Oh and if you get rid of the krell stone you can set them on fire, which was a nice addition.

[Sanguinary Dan]

I'd love to try Thyra, but I've no interest in the Daughters till they come in plastic. How well would she support KEE and jacks?

[Syas]

Oh, and the last thing in that eDoomie netdeck list is Burrowers. Those little buggers are also nigh impossible to deal with when they're off the board half of the time and making tough checks the other half.

Burrowers are susceptible to Fear bombing though, Avatar, TFG, and Reznik can really mess with them if they over extend themselves.

As someone who plays Menoth and Trolls, I would definitely put Reznik on the table. One of the reasons folks favor killing beasts first is to starve the Warlock/prevent Transfers, Reznik's feat can do that, so you have two powerful options (IMO), the Scalpel and the Broadsword. For the Scalpel approach, you can get the Krielstone within 12", pop the feat and now only models within 4" are immune to your Cont. Fire Antics (and if you catch the Warlock/Beasts in that too he will have a hard time refilling next turn).

Broadsword approach is the... well, Broadsword approach. Open your charge lane, make sure you are within 12" of the Warlock, pop your feat and charge in. The only Warlock who has a chance of eating 6 POW 18 attacks (with the initial one boosted) is eMadrak or Borka. Make sure Borka is boxed, and eMadrak is just going to be about positioning of his Warrior models in relation to him.

Highest DEF on a Troll is 16 (Grim) which only requires a 5 with EOD Reznik brings blade to face, and the highest ARM is 19 (Borka, +2" if he is within 4 inches of the Krielstone, since it shouldn't have any Fury). Even at ridiculous levels, Borka with KSB and Earthborn's Animus (ARM 23); Reznik forces the Tough roll with his Charge attack +2 Additional Boosted Damage Attacks +1 Normal Attack. That is worst case (again, make sure he is boxed in). Against anything else Reznik will force multiple tough rolls; while I have made them, only 33% should be successful.

Vs. most Troll Warcasters, Reznik is dropping them in 2 hits, and then he can force 4 more Tough rolls. If your opponent makes 5 Tough Rolls in a row (~0.4% chance) then that just wasn't a game you were supposed to win.

Best case scenario? Reznik dirtnaps Calandra with Bullet Dodger on her if he rolls average damage on his charge attack.

[frozenfoxx]

As a vote for Thyra, she works well for me and I don't use Daughters (just don't have any yet, finishing other stuff). Yeah, she grants some stuff to Daughters but Carnage is for everyone, the feat move is *great* for KEE to get out of combat and shoot (or whatever), and generally she's just a great caster all around.

Personally I do my best to ignore Mulg if I've got the movement. He hurts, BAD, even without support or a charge. For me he's the hardest hitting single beast ever (personal opinions will differ, just my experience). Couple of thoughts on dealing with him:

*If you've got Gorman, Mulg really doesn't like being blinded. Takes the wind out of his sails REAL quick.
*If you can, run. He's not that fast.
*If you can't run, hit him with everything you've got until he dies. Do NOT let him live. If he does he's going to tear you a new one.

Beyond that, I'd say just prepare to commit forces to a unit moreso than you're used to. Things die very hard in the Trollblood army so you end up having to dedicate a lot of focused fire on single components. Force the player to take enough Tough rolls and he/she's going to fail one of them on something important sooner or later. Plus, if it helps, remember you're Protectorate! Masters of attrition! Just don't throw your guys away and you'll probably have plenty of power to take him/her on all game.

[fishfleas]

the little I have faced of trolls I have felt that fire probably isn't the best strat against them. they tend to have higher armor, maybe not super high but high enough to make fire not as strong. I feel some of the best things you can do is run heavy hitting jacks like templar and Avatar. Vassals are worth their weight in gold in the hordes matchups. I'ld run 2 if you can. Enliven is just that good. You can go from about to lose your heavy to killing their's instead. also, heavies with reach attacking over a wall of TFG is nice. The UA for TFG grants ranked attacks.

[jandrese]

*If you can, run. He's not that fast.

This is sadly not true with eDoomie.