Took Vlad 3 for a test drive tonight....

[wargolem]

Overall VERY impressed and he is a pretty solid mix it up caster. I was playing against 2 armies that bring several ranged options since they know I normally do not have ANY ranged other than gun carriage. Was very fun though and really my only hiccups were forgetting to add the +1 str after killing a living model. Windwall is just what the dr ordered and dash is sweeeeeeeet. Flashing blade is semi broken (well if he had a higher melee and pow/str it would be broken. As it stands to reliably kill semi decent armor you are having to boost and eating away at your focus. Dice minus 5 on the flail against armor 18 and -6 when not on the charge with the spear.

Overall it was fun and a great time at the Foundry in Huntsville, AL. Warmachine night there on Thursdays is always fun.

Played Vlad3's tier 4 list (with gun carriage instead of spriggan) as follows:

Vlad 3 (+5jack points)
Drago 7 (from tier)
Gun Carriage 9
Uhlans x 2 (min units) 14
Fenris 5
Drakhun 5

total 35 points



Kill: Vlad 3
Assist: Fenris and dismounted MOW Drakhun
Victim: Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight

Thargash still had Raek, Angelius, & Carnivean Raek was full fury, Angelius had 1 fury on it and he had just popped feat and placed the carnivean within 3" but I was able to charge in with Fenris and Drakhun (dismounted) and put some damage on him then Charged him with Vlad3 to seal the deal by 2 pips. He transfered the first hit from fenris which was for 12 damage and you can debate if that was the right time to do it but he only had 1 fury left after killing my 3 uhlans that had ran up on him under dash (no free strikes)

KILL:Vlad 3

ASSIST: Cavalry rules & windwall

VICTIM:Lord Arcanist Ossyan

In this game (my second with Vlad3) I decided to not brick up with the uhlans (first game against legion I bricked up to protect them from the legion archers) and instead play very aggressive. Needless to say I traded a unit (2 of a min unitthe assassin killed the first one because I forgot the 4" melee range) for a Mage hunter assassin when on the next turn he charged them with back strike bonus from the Invictors I had been wanting to get over to. I was down to Gun Carriage, Drago, and Vlad and I almost took out his pheonix, but my last roll was a 3 on drago for damage and I was dice minus 3.

So the Gun Carriage and Drago were blocking the pheonix charge lane and he charged his remaining invictors (4 of them into drago again for a back strike and finished off drago , then Pheonix after being repaired a few points from his solo repair guy wrecked Gun Carriage. So then I had Vlad 3 against what was left of his CRA unit (4 that fenris didn't kill), 4 invictors and a Pheonix about 6" away from vlad, 3 stormfall archers, 1 repair guy and Ossy. So I decided to charge the Invictors to buff my armor and wound up having to buy a couple more flashing blades to finish them and the Pheonix. Then I windwalled and chased Ossy a few turns since he kept shooting me with the you can't run or charge gun and recasting admonition. He finally missed and I was able to run over and get in melee but he admonitioned out of melle range so he wouldn't take a free strike next turn when he ran.

I finally got the chance I had been waiting for when he moved and shot and hit me so he cast a spell or two + Admonition again to do a total of 12 damage on vlad on feat turn but he couldn't do diddly elsebecause he thought he was safe. I then proceeded to announce on my turn I was casting hand of fate and then doing a "ride by attack" since it would not trigger admonition. He claimed it would so we looked it up and in clear letters it says plainly it does not trigger end of movement effects. I moved base to base and fully boosted the flail and spear to hit and damage under hand of fate and sealed Ossy's fate

[Peg leg Pete]

i'm not super familiar with Ossy, and i've only used vlad 3 once, so my recollection may be off.

did you say he was shooting you with a magic gun while you were under Wind Wall?

if i remember right, it has to be a magic attack to get past the Wall, and, also if i remember right, magical weapons don't count as magic attacks...

if i'm wrong, please let me know because it'll be important later.

[ScottEBJJ]

i'm not super familiar with Ossy, and i've only used vlad 3 once, so my recollection may be off.

did you say he was shooting you with a magic gun while you were under Wind Wall?

if i remember right, it has to be a magic attack to get past the Wall, and, also if i remember right, magical weapons don't count as magic attacks...

if i'm wrong, please let me know because it'll be important later.

You are wrong. The attack just has to be magical, so either magic weapon or spell.

[Hoc Est Bellum]

Magical guns hit you just fine: the wording is 'non-magical ranged attacks automatically miss'. Different to 'non-magic attacks'

[wargolem]

yeppers ya'll are correct. His gun is magical and therefore gets around the windwall.

[Peg leg Pete]

thanks guys! wordings still trip me up a little sometimes.

either way, vlad's still pretty hard to hit at range!

[NChomsky3d]

I played a T4 Vlad3 list against Saryn, and it was awesome (list below). His list had a legion unit with UA, Scythean, 2x Angelius, a Succubus, a Shredder, a stinger and a couple shephards. There was some bad rolling on his part, but the incredible freedom of movement meant that more often than not I was thinking "which model do I kill that one with" and not "now how do I get a model over there". Vlad and Fenris didn't even get to attack anything.

Vlad
Dog
Drago
2x Berserker

Max Uhlans
Min Uhlans
Markov
Fenris
2x Drakhuns

[Jack Hammer]

Was in a 25pt Highlander Tournament (1 Heavy, 1 Light (Khador ignores), 1 Unit and 1 Solo, then Jacks to fill). Was 3vlad, Ulhans (Max), Markov, Kodiak and Juggernaut.

Went 3-0 with him. In the first game My Kodiak creamed a Defender then brutalized Magnus in 2 turns. The 2nd and 3rd Games (Lilith with Carnivean & Vindictus with Crusader) Vlad the blocking heavy, sidestepped around, then Flashing Blades against the casters and Heavy, killing the heavy in tiny chunks.... and in both games failing to kill the caster. (In 4 hits on 5 attacks, Vlad rolled 6 total damage on dice-3.... ^_^ ) But in both games he weathered a full round of attacks from the opposing caster without any focus on him.

I am sure there are casters that I would not have survived the round against.

[wargolem]

very nice jobs indeed!

[NYCowboy]

Was in a 25pt Highlander Tournament (1 Heavy, 1 Light (Khador ignores), 1 Unit and 1 Solo, then Jacks to fill). Was 3vlad, Ulhans (Max), Markov, Kodiak and Juggernaut.

Went 3-0 with him. In the first game My Kodiak creamed a Defender then brutalized Magnus in 2 turns. The 2nd and 3rd Games (Lilith with Carnivean & Vindictus with Crusader) Vlad the blocking heavy, sidestepped around, then Flashing Blades against the casters and Heavy, killing the heavy in tiny chunks.... and in both games failing to kill the caster. (In 4 hits on 5 attacks, Vlad rolled 6 total damage on dice-3.... ^_^ ) But in both games he weathered a full round of attacks from the opposing caster without any focus on him.

I am sure there are casters that I would not have survived the round against.

Funny my Vlad3 experience in close combat saw him get taken down by a 1 fury eKaya after suffering only 5 damage all game.

[PG_Caecus Scius]

Ive played 3 games with him, and so far I've won but not thought he was doing his job, my army won the game he sort of helped a little. I think if I had run that same list and just about any caster in our roster, I would have still won.


Not sure... I'm running his tier list- I'm gonna try him without the tier list. The feat is not great, it seems good on paper, but then does little to nothing on the table. He can be an amazing assassin with his feat all by himself, or with Drago, but using it on the army is not working- Uhlans are not disappointing me. I'd still run markov, fenris, and drakkhun but as much as I want them to be good, the uhlans are an 11 point speed bump- They can surely wreck a jack but I'm actually whiffing versus infantry which they SHOULD be good at killing.

[PG_ThatRickGuy]

I'm really tempted to run something like:

Vlad3
-Wishnailer
-Drago
Mechanics (min)
Mechanics (min)
Kayazy Assassins (max)
-Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators

At 25 points.

The whole list is wrapped around the Kayazy with +1 SPD. The mechanics are there for impact attacks and blood quenched, just to keep Vlad nigh unkillable.

-Rick

[wargolem]

with the new errata to back swing (making it sequential instead of simultaneous) does this mean great bears and demo corp can now use sidestep and take the second swing after the sidestep move?

Also, I have gotten 4 games in with him and only lost to a butcher MOW theme force. I have been running 35 point FDD (Fenris, Drakhun, Drago) instead of FMDD (Fenris, Markov, Dog, Drago). The MOW theme force is hard to take down with the 2 min units of uhlans at 35 simply because after the charge your swinging pow 10 against arm 17/16 which is not good math. Vlad has carried his weight quite well 2 of the other three games and the last game against skorne he won the game with only himself Drago and Gun Carriage left by clearing no man's land on feat turn. I blocked access to it on turn one by getting to go first and dashing up 18" with the uhlans.

The point being that his them list is very good indeed but it does have a hard counter, namely high armor, which I may be able to mitigate that with a second jack instead of the gun carriage. Will try it tomorrow and let ya'll know. I did try Markov and dog in one game and while it is nice, you will always miss fenris when the feat turn rolls around.

[Trihnicus]

Gotta remember that 3Vlad only gives his feat to Cavalry and Warjacks... no super crazily awesome Greatbears shenanigans..... (sits and contemplates the magnitude of what that might have accomplished). HOF and Dash and Sidestep and Sprint on Greatbears..... would the world ever be the same again?

Kommandos would go from rather bad to stupidly awesome under Vlad though.... so awesome.

[PG_Shadow37]

I'm really tempted to run something like:

Vlad3
-Wishnailer
-Drago
Mechanics (min)
Mechanics (min)
Kayazy Assassins (max)
-Underboss
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators

At 25 points.

The whole list is wrapped around the Kayazy with +1 SPD. The mechanics are there for impact attacks and blood quenched, just to keep Vlad nigh unkillable.

-Rick

I'm pretty sure you only get the bonus for enemy models you destroy.

[@Kriegsspiele]

I'm pretty sure you only get the bonus for enemy models you destroy.

Absolutely: "living enemy model" -> no Cryx, no friendly models - http://j.mp/vlad3

[PG_Caecus Scius]

+1 speed on Kayazy < Iron Flesh on Kayazy. Sorry... sure its good on them, but IF them and its dumb. That same list with Elvad would be better, at least his feat would rock stuff.


I want to like 3Vlad, I do really want to run a cav list of doom!!!! however it keep looking like he just isn't the caster for me. Maybe when we get some more cav, that don't just speed bump.

[quindraco]

+1 speed on Kayazy < Iron Flesh on Kayazy. Sorry... sure its good on them, but IF them and its dumb. That same list with Elvad would be better, at least his feat would rock stuff.


I want to like 3Vlad, I do really want to run a cav list of doom!!!! however it keep looking like he just isn't the caster for me. Maybe when we get some more cav, that don't just speed bump.

I would rather have Dash than Iron Flesh, to be honest. lVlad's spell list has some other losers in it, and I consider his feat atrocious, but Dash is money.

[ScottEBJJ]

I would rather have Dash than Iron Flesh, to be honest. lVlad's spell list has some other losers in it, and I consider his feat atrocious, but Dash is money.

What are the losers on his spell list? I mean I get some people wanted Superiority of Infernal, but it's not a bad spell. Razor Wind is a good offensive spell. And Wind Wall is situationally awesome.

And regarding his Feat, how are people not getting use out of it? I mean by all means don't build your list to it, most models can't benefit from it fully. But getting a full offensive turn with your Warcaster and not have to trade Fenris or Beast 09 has been absolutely awesome. To call it atrocious is insulting to the actually atrocious feats that exist. Gunnbjorn? eGrissel? Yeah lVlads feat does not come close to that category. In all of my games with him his feat turn has resulted in a lot of stuff happening.

[Trihnicus]

Absolutely: "living enemy model" -> no Cryx, no friendly models - http://j.mp/vlad3

No Undead, No Friendly models, No Warjacks, No Constructs,

[@Kriegsspiele]

No Undead, No Friendly models, No Warjacks, No Constructs,

This! It's always better to be precise.

lVlad's spell list has some other losers in it, and I consider his feat atrocious, but Dash is money.

Dash is great, but where are those losers?

I mean I get some people wanted Superiority of Infernal, but it's not a bad spell. Razor Wind is a good offensive spell. And Wind Wall is situationally awesome.

Dash is great. (Did I say that already? )
Hand of Fate is his (2nd or still 1st?) bread and butter spell.
Infernal Machine vs. Superiority: does +2 DEF really matter that much?
Wind Wall is lovely when going for assassination,
Ditto for Flashing Blade with Blood-Quenched; http://j.mp/Vlad3Assassinator
Razor Wind is very situational in my opinion.

And regarding his Feat, how are people not getting use out of it? I mean by all means don't build your list to it, most models can't benefit from it fully. But getting a full offensive turn with your Warcaster and not have to trade Fenris or Beast 09 has been absolutely awesome.

I don't get this either? I'm currently testing his T4 exclusively and I'm building my list for the feat to some degree automatically: I really love it, especially for assassination. Didn't have any good targets yet to use it for attrition. And beyond sidestepping: every featable unit benefits from Sprint!? It's not a "trap" at all in my opinion.

EDIT: "Blood-Quenched" instead of "Brutal Charge".

[ScottEBJJ]

+1 speed on Kayazy < Iron Flesh on Kayazy. Sorry... sure its good on them, but IF them and its dumb. That same list with Elvad would be better, at least his feat would rock stuff.


I want to like 3Vlad, I do really want to run a cav list of doom!!!! however it keep looking like he just isn't the caster for me. Maybe when we get some more cav, that don't just speed bump.

Your making a judgement on a caster based on a super restrictive theme force without stellar benefits. Doesn't that seem a bit lacking in logic?

He isn't going to run a "cav list of doom", at least at present. But for that to sour you on him overall is like trying to shove a square peg into a round hole, and getting mad at the peg and the hole.

[ScottEBJJ]

I don't get this either? I'm currently testing his T4 exclusively and I'm building my list for the feat to some degree automatically: I really love it, especially for assassination. Didn't have any good targets yet to use it for attrition. And beyond sidestepping: every featable unit benefits from Sprint!? It's not a "trap" at all in my opinion.

It absolutely is a trap. Markhov, the Drakhun, and Uhlans all have to be sent at a relatively narrow target set to benefit from the feat that it is a trap to include them on the basis of the feat. If people are giving up consistent assassinations to the feat, then frankly they are playing very poorly. And that is just being plain honest.

[quindraco]

What are the losers on his spell list? I mean I get some people wanted Superiority of Infernal, but it's not a bad spell. Razor Wind is a good offensive spell. And Wind Wall is situationally awesome.

And regarding his Feat, how are people not getting use out of it? I mean by all means don't build your list to it, most models can't benefit from it fully. But getting a full offensive turn with your Warcaster and not have to trade Fenris or Beast 09 has been absolutely awesome. To call it atrocious is insulting to the actually atrocious feats that exist. Gunnbjorn? eGrissel? Yeah lVlads feat does not come close to that category. In all of my games with him his feat turn has resulted in a lot of stuff happening.

I didn't mean to place his feat on an objective scale with my post. I hands down do NOT consider his feat the worst in the game - I don't even consider it the worst in Khador. Karchev gets that distinction. Note that there's more to a caster than their feat - I think Zerkova's is ludicrously good, but I think Karchev is a more effective caster for other reasons. I'm not 100% sure if I'd give lVlad second worst feat, but that feels about right.

As for his spell list, I think the losers are Infernal Machine, Wind Wall, and Razor Wind/Flashing Blade. I don't normally argue with Razor Wind, because every caster gets at least one offensive spell and Razor Wind is the baseline Khador one, but I'd rather have just Flashing Blade; I listed both because I'm not sure everyone else would also prefer it, but I am sure it's not worth spending two precious spell slots on offensive spells in a faction with no arc nodes, especially since he's otherwise a support caster. Infernal Machine could have been Superiority, as you mentioned. Wind Wall is worse on him than on pVlad, and while you're correct that it can be useful, there are number of spells I'd cast first, such as Fog of War.

[@Kriegsspiele]

Markhov, the Drakhun, and Uhlans all have to be sent at a relatively narrow target set to benefit from the feat that it is a trap to include them on the basis of the feat.

I even did it with Vlad himself yesterday: another new vector was simply better than +1 inch from charging (and +2 MAT/STR, and a boosted damage role). And the Drakhun has enough hitting power (horse and himself) with or without a charge frequently.

Beyond that, the feat has 2 parts: sidestepping and sprinting. I used the latter to escape after a failed assassination and to screen Vlad with other units and solos after they had charged/attacked as well. I really wouldn't call this a trap, even if you're using the entire feat with just 4-6 models (Vlad, Fenris, Drakhuns, jacks) and use "just" half of it with your other units.

If people are giving up consistent assassinations to the feat, then frankly they are playing very poorly. And that is just being plain honest.

I haven't played enough games to judge this: In my opinion the assassination potential is huge, but it's not mandatory? I guess it depends on the current situation, just as always.

I think the losers are Infernal Machine, Wind Wall, and Razor Wind/Flashing Blade.

Infernal Machine because you would have preferred Superiority or because it doesn't fit in general?

I really don't get the point why you think that the combination of Wind Wall, then Flashing Blade and Blood-Quenched are "losers"? My highest P&S was 19 so far (plus HoF: 20.45). Pretty neat for a caster, isn't it!? Without FB Blood-Quenched would be useless: With FB it's great to kill a lot of casters even while bunkering focus...

EDIT: "Blood-Quenched" instead of "Brutal Charge".

[ScottEBJJ]

I didn't mean to place his feat on an objective scale with my post. I hands down do NOT consider his feat the worst in the game - I don't even consider it the worst in Khador. Karchev gets that distinction. Note that there's more to a caster than their feat - I think Zerkova's is ludicrously good, but I think Karchev is a more effective caster for other reasons. I'm not 100% sure if I'd give lVlad second worst feat, but that feels about right.

As for his spell list, I think the losers are Infernal Machine, Wind Wall, and Razor Wind/Flashing Blade. I don't normally argue with Razor Wind, because every caster gets at least one offensive spell and Razor Wind is the baseline Khador one, but I'd rather have just Flashing Blade; I listed both because I'm not sure everyone else would also prefer it, but I am sure it's not worth spending two precious spell slots on offensive spells in a faction with no arc nodes, especially since he's otherwise a support caster. Infernal Machine could have been Superiority, as you mentioned. Wind Wall is worse on him than on pVlad, and while you're correct that it can be useful, there are number of spells I'd cast first, such as Fog of War.

I consider his feat on par with pVlad. Not worth building a list around, situationally game winning, mostly just effective, and never useless.

I do not see whats to compare about Flashing Blade and Razor Wind, they are both "offensive" but the similarities end there. Razor Wind gives you a magical ranged option on a caster, which is essential. On a SPD 8 model it is also a very effective assassination tool for those times when your opponent is forced to leave themselves exposed. I would not want to leave home without the ability to throw a boosted ranged attack with my Warcaster when needed. Flashing Blade on a Cav. Warcaster with access to Sprint is really exceptional. Being able to make focus efficient attacks in 3-5 different spots on the board is really the type of shenanigans people have been complaining we do not have access to for awhile now. And given that he gets a free offensive turn with his feat and is blood fueled it is a spell that will get a lot of use. I'm really struggling to find where you a drawing the comparisons between the two or why either would illicit complaints.

Superiority is better the IM for sure, but it's almost a non issue. You needed a SPD and MAT buff, anything extra is just extra. Terror isn't useless.

In what way is Wind Wall worse on him then pVlad? I feel as if Fog of War was on his card you'd be issuing the same complaint. I vastly prefer Wind Wall as Fog of War just grants a to easily ignored or already gotten benefit, though it is for the whole army. Wind Wall is needed because of his base size, it prevents him from getting shot up at will. It can be worked around but his stats are enough that denying any shots will save him, usually.

Now I understand you didn't mean to view the feat in an overall comparison, but your post really did come off as over-exaggerated. When I think of worthless/loser spells I'm thinking of stuff I forget are on the caster card, like Grind on pIrusk or the knockdown spell on Strakov. I think calling any of lVlad's spells losers is like calling Airburst and Wind Blast losers.

[quindraco]

I really don't get the point why you think that the combination of Wind Wall, then Flashing Blade and Brutal Charge are "losers"? My highest P&S was 19 so far (plus HoF: 20.45). Pretty neat for a caster, isn't it!? Without FB Brutal Charge would be useless: With FB it's great to kill a lot of casters even while bunkering focus...

I don't even..... what? Flashing Blade and Brutal Charge have no synergy at all, except that you can use Flashing Blade prior to movement to charge despite having started your activation walled in by models. Did you type Brutal Charge and mean Blood Quenched? Also, I said I wanted Flashing Blade *instead of* Razor Wind, so there's that. Wind Wall I have little respect for on him; there are other, better spells that could have been. It's situationally incredible, like if you can deliver him into the B13 and then cast it so there's no reprisal, but it doesn't have the broad utility I look for in my spells.

[Trihnicus]

How and Why does Brutal Charge make a difference to Flashing Blade? Brutal Charge only effects Charge attacks.... not to be confused with Attacks made before during or after a charge....

[quindraco]

I consider his feat on par with pVlad. Not worth building a list around, situationally game winning, mostly just effective, and never useless.

I think this is accurate; pVlad's feat is absolutely a list-building trap, as you point out. His spell list is completely wrong for a jack-focused caster, but his feat is pure warjack. If you put his feat on Karchev it would be really incredibly good, but on him it's more of an afterthought - the bulk of my wins with pVlad didn't even involve a feat pop.

I do not see whats to compare about Flashing Blade and Razor Wind, they are both "offensive" but the similarities end there.

I hate Razor Wind. If I'm close enough to the enemy to cast it, I'm close enough to lose the game. I've used it, but incredibly rarely. I accept it, because there's an unspoken rule that every caster must spend a spell slot on offensive output, but I don't like it. Flashing Blade I actually like, and it seems to occupy that spell slot adequately.

Superiority is better the IM for sure, but it's almost a non issue. You needed a SPD and MAT buff, anything extra is just extra. Terror isn't useless.

As you say, Superiority is better. And it's a signature Khador spell. It's only slightly less silly than Harkevich packing Fortune.

In what way is Wind Wall worse on him then pVlad?

1) His base size is larger, so the Wind Wall area for packing in other models to protect is smaller.
2) His baze size is larger and he's much faster most of the time, so a Doom Reaver limo is horribly impractical, which used to be one of the major ways to make Wind Wall shine.
3) Since he's using HoF, not SnP, his use of Wind Wall has a more significant effect on giving up offensive output, since that focus could be used for a HoF cycle.

Now I understand you didn't mean to view the feat in an overall comparison, but your post really did come off as over-exaggerated. When I think of worthless/loser spells I'm thinking of stuff I forget are on the caster card, like Grind on pIrusk or the knockdown spell on Strakov. I think calling any of lVlad's spells losers is like callin Airburst and Windblast losers.

I'm unwilling to take responsibility for you thinking of loser and worthless as synonyms. I never accuse lVlad of having trap spells, which is what you're referring to (by the way, Grind is *better* than Razor Wind) - a spell that is almost always going to lose you the game if you're casting it because of what casting it implies, like Obliteration on pButcher.

[@Kriegsspiele]

Did you type Brutal Charge and mean Blood Quenched?

This is it. Sorry. Edited the posts above to prevent further misunderstandings.

Also, I said I wanted Flashing Blade *instead of* Razor Wind, so there's that. Wind Wall I have little respect for on him; there are other, better spells that could have been. It's situationally incredible, like if you can deliver him into the B13 and then cast it so there's no reprisal, but it doesn't have the broad utility I look for in my spells.

Used it against Bloodtrackers, BlightedSwordsmen, and Sword Knights so far. Worked as intended.

[PG_Shadow37]

I have not played Vlad3 yet, but any model with Side Step and Reach is really really good. You are able to get angles that even experienced players cannot see at times. I think ranged models will be key for Vlad3 for destroying key enemy models that will make way for Side Step.

[quindraco]

Used it against Bloodtrackers, BlightedSwordsmen, and Sword Knights so far. Worked as intended.

You used Wind Wall on Sword Knights? How?

[@Kriegsspiele]

You used Wind Wall on Sword Knights? How?

Flashing Blade. Just Flashing Blade.

[jdeckert]

Doesn't windwall cover a larger area thanks to his larger base? That's one way it would be better with Vlad3 than Vlad1. I know it's very matchup dependent, but with his large base windwall can be the difference between getting range-assassinated and actually having a chance.

And maybe it's because I've been having so much fun with Grayle, but his feat seems pretty good to me. You can kill a bunch of stuff via sidesteps and then sprint into a position to minimize retaliation and set up a next turn caster kill. That is if the sidesteps don't deliver you to the caster already...

[quindraco]

Doesn't windwall cover a larger area thanks to his larger base? That's one way it would be better with Vlad3 than Vlad1. I know it's very matchup dependent, but with his large base windwall can be the difference between getting range-assassinated and actually having a chance.

And maybe it's because I've been having so much fun with Grayle, but his feat seems pretty good to me. You can kill a bunch of stuff via sidesteps and then sprint into a position to minimize retaliation and set up a next turn caster kill. That is if the sidesteps don't deliver you to the caster already...

Actually, yes. I was misreading Wind Wall, and should amend my statement. It actually does scale with base size, so his covered area is now larger, not smaller.

[Der Dexter]

The area for windwall with a large base is bigger than with a small base, so what the problem?
also with eVlad miving faster with base spd, he taxies stuff further up the field. Especially DR, they run all the time anyhow, easily keeping up.
I dont understand these objections...

Also obliteration with pButcher is a decent assasination-tool, try it out.
With wishnailer with hiss arcane secrets, its a pow 15+4d6 and pseudo-S&P, oneshotting some casters, and at least doing tons of dmg. done 3 casterkills with it so far, and they never saw a Butcher spellassasination coming their way...
What i mean, is those niche-spells are very situational, but can do nice things at times if thought of...

[ScottEBJJ]

I hate Razor Wind. If I'm close enough to the enemy to cast it, I'm close enough to lose the game. I've used it, but incredibly rarely. I accept it, because there's an unspoken rule that every caster must spend a spell slot on offensive output, but I don't like it. Flashing Blade I actually like, and it seems to occupy that spell slot adequately.

But they don't at all fill the same role. The inability to assert yourself at range as a Warcaster, when opportunity calls, would leave a very real very large hole in his game. You have to be able to pop the incorporeal solo/Vilmon or put a warcaster/warlock down that is out or low on focus/fury, and Razor Wind is very effective in that regard. He has an 18-24inch threat with it, which is quite nice. Casting it does not mean you are somehow going to lose the game, unless you are casting it for no real reason.

1) His base size is larger, so the Wind Wall area for packing in other models to protect is smaller.
2) His baze size is larger and he's much faster most of the time, so a Doom Reaver limo is horribly impractical, which used to be one of the major ways to make Wind Wall shine.
3) Since he's using HoF, not SnP, his use of Wind Wall has a more significant effect on giving up offensive output, since that focus could be used for a HoF cycle.

I think you need to re-read Wind Wall. It protects everything completely within 3in. 3in + 50mm + 3in > 3in + 30mm + 3in. lVlad actually protects a larger area Wind Wall, I'm not sure how you thought otherwise? Though you are correct, the Vlad Limo is impractical, though I never considered it a tactic just a mildly effective funny trick.

How does it cut into his ability to cycle HoF? Unless you are upkeeping it, casting it on yourself, and then recasting it; cycling HoF will never cost more then SnP anyway. And even throwing it three places will cost the same as SnP if you bring Wishnaylar. So I'm kind of confused.

[sliganian]

Also obliteration with pButcher is a decent assasination-tool, try it out.
.

And THIS. I've used it a couple of times. Some folks don't see it coming and think that being out of Butcher's charge range means they are 'safe'. Obliteration under pButcher's FEAT with a Boost is 15+5D6 damage (so15+7+7+3). Last time I used it was on a Knocked Down pFeora. Obliteration took most of her boxes off, the HandCannon (remember that?) took the rest.

[quindraco]

I think you need to re-read Wind Wall. It protects everything completely within 3in. 3in + 50mm + 3in > 3in + 30mm + 3in. lVlad actually protects a larger area Wind Wall, I'm not sure how you thought otherwise? Though you are correct, the Vlad Limo is impractical, though I never considered it a tactic just a mildly effective funny trick.

I already retracted this in another thread, I was misreading it.

How does it cut into his ability to cycle HoF?

Because there's only so much focus to go around.

[ScottEBJJ]

I already retracted this in another thread, I was misreading it.



Because there's only so much focus to go around.

And I just explained the one circumstance that cycling HoF would cost more then casting SnP. The average cycling of HoF cost 2-3 focus. And even in that rare circumstance where you need to upkeep it, cycle it to Vlad, then put it elsewhere; with Wishnaylar it would cost the same.

And if you need to HoF yourself you are probably going to need the other focus to make more attack to anyway, so you weren't Wind Wall'ing anyway.