difference between warmachine and hordes?

[jkendle88]

I have the warmachine rulebook and was recently able to pick up a bunch of circle stuff pretty cheap. Is the fury management going to be the only difference? It is covered in the quickstart rules for hordes. My main question is are the two rule books that different that I would need to get the hordes rule book too? Or do the quickstart rules cover the differences?

[tuttleboy]

It's not the only difference, but it's the biggest difference. The Quickstart rules are great place to start, and to be quite honest this should probably be in the general section as its not a specific rules question.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Moving this to general discussion, as it is not really a rules question.

[adary]

As a friend of mine said once, If you start with Warmachine, get used to focus, and move to Hordes and fury, you will be the happiest gamer alive. If you start with Hordes, get used to fury and move to Warmachine, you will have a slightly tougher time getting used to the difference. Once you understand them both, you will love them equally

[CrypticApathy]

The general rules are the same but the warmachine book won't tell you how to handle damaged aspects or animi or frenzy checks.

[Ikazuyr]

Yes, the real difference between warmachine and hordes is the difference between focus and fury. There are also probably a couple other pieces like frenzy checks, but infantry and solo rules are the same. The quick start rules give you a little bit of how the fury mechanic works, but I know there are things they don't cover in the quick start rules and the frenzy stuff is simplified.

[PG_dbsmash]

Unfortunately, we will often hear people complain that beasts are better than warjacks and that fury is better than focus. I personally find the systems quite balanced, but sometimes that balance is not immediately obvious. The fury mechanism essentially can produce larger bursts of power, whereas the focus system is more consistent and dependable.

[jkendle88]

Yes, the real difference between warmachine and hordes is the difference between focus and fury. There are also probably a couple other pieces like frenzy checks, but infantry and solo rules are the same. The quick start rules give you a little bit of how the fury mechanic works, but I know there are things they don't cover in the quick start rules and the frenzy stuff is simplified.

Ok so I should get the hordes book too then, that was what I was really looking for. I figured it was probably simplified in the quick start rules.

Thanks a lot for your help ill pick it up and give hordes a try it looks like a lot of fun so far.

[Circle noob]

the rules in both books are almost the same. fury management, forcing, damage transfers, frenzy checks and animi concerning issues are described in hordes primal mkii. the mechanics are imho not so hard to understand and i really dont get why these important parts are not covered in warmachine prime mkii as well, since pp clearly want us to play wm against hordes and vice versa. so i got the impression that it really comes down to making more money. (that is just my point of view and i actually bought both rulebooks and kinda like myself a little less for that fact).

[scout's honor]

the mechanics are imho not so hard to understand and i really dont get why these important parts are not covered in warmachine prime mkii as well, since pp clearly want us to play wm against hordes and vice versa.

The rules are some 70 pages or so, out of 250. In other words, to provide the same content regarding rules, models and fluff from both books in a single volume PP would be looking at a page count of 450. That's a 450-page book for players to pay for in one go, and a 450-page book for players to cart around to wherever they'll be playing. And obviously PP has to front the money for these books to the printer and hope to recuperate this investment afterwards - that's a lot more money to put up in one go when we're talking one book instead of two, that were released with quite a significant period of time between them. Does that count as enough of a reason to split the systems up into two books?

[CrypticApathy]

Just get someone to show you how to handle fury an the wm rulebook will be fine.

[tuttleboy]

...or wait and see if the Hordes 2 player box has an arse kicking minirulebook and pick one of those up.

[stupidmonkey]

There are different rules in the Hordes book for what happens when your beast get damaged, transferring damage healing beasts, shaking effects on beast, Leaching, Reaving, and Frenzy... among other things. If you are playing a Hordes army I would suggest a Hordes book. There is enough of a difference.

[Circle noob]

@scott: i dont think they should include the fluff and army of the hordes armies in the warmachine book or vice versa. i just want the rules, nothing else! those would prolly add about ten pages to the either prime or primal.

[WarpedWolf]

Other than the warbeast/warjack and fury/focus mechanic, there are a few other small changes scattered throughout the rules. It's enough that I'd want the rulebook.

I wish PP would put out 'bootstrap' guides for people moving from one game to the other, but I don't think that's likely.

[Decade]

Just a little off topic, but not really. A practical difference between the two is army composition. In most cases, Warmachine is going to be light on jacks, because the resource system rewards being frugal, as the relationship between jacks and casters tends to be a parasite/host relationship. Jacks need resources from the caster, but the reverse is not true.

Conversely, in Hordes, there tend to be more beasts, since the resource system requires redundancy as the relationship between the beasts and locks is more of a mutualistic symbiosis. A lock that's lost his beasts is in trouble, because he has no fury generation other than cutting, and can't transfer damage.

[Sneak]

...or wait and see if the Hordes 2 player box has an arse kicking minirulebook and pick one of those up.

+1 Wait for the mini rule book in the 2 player box. The Quick start rules + MKii Prime book will be enough for you to get started. I would not pick up the Hordes rule book.