New Character Jacks - What do you want? And who for?

[PG_hendybadger]

With the recent playtest PDF posted here - http://privateerpress.com/files/Priv...C37_Models.pdf
there are a couple of new Merc Character Jacks.
A Mariner for Shea and a Blaster for Gorten.
Obviously these arnt balanced yet as they are being used to test people, but they might appeaer one day if we are lucky.

That started an interesting conversation though about the sort of Jack Shae should have.

What new Character Jacks would you like for Mercs?
What should they do?
Which Casters are they for?

Personnaly I would LOVE to see a Freebooter for Shae. But not just any Freebooter, one carrying the Commodore Cannon!

[PG_vytzka]

Wait, that Mariner is a real* thing? Chain Strike with Shae? *drools*

*playtest, who cares

[CaGeRit]

Have to say, I don't really "get" Gorten's blaster. Why give a ranged jack assault if it has no melee weapons, where melee would be the last place it would want to be. The only tactic I really see is charging (for free) something out of range for +3" threat range on the shotgun. If they stuck a giant low POW bayonet with AP on it I could see it as a viable jack.
Shae's mariner seems an odd choice, especially when the rengrave/freebooter encounter practically writes itself in as a character jack, all you need to do is justify Shae going out and finding it at the bottom of the ocean.

[PG_hendybadger]

Wait, that Mariner is a real* thing? Chain Strike with Shae? *drools*

*playtest, who cares

Im going to test it our for sure.
I hope they post up finished versions when the playtest is over.

[PG_vytzka]

Have to say, I don't really "get" Gorten's blaster. Why give a ranged jack assault if it has no melee weapons, where melee would be the last place it would want to be. The only tactic I really see is charging (for free) something out of range for +3" threat range on the shotgun. If they stuck a giant low POW bayonet with AP on it I could see it as a viable jack.

Eh, extra 3" is a big deal, not to mention that it lets you spray without regard for being in melee with other models at the end of the charge (where previously you couldn't spray a Reach model from 2" or closer, thus losing at least 2" of the spray template). That's worth an extra point (it's a 4 point character jack FFS!).

Shae's mariner seems an odd choice, especially when the rengrave/freebooter encounter practically writes itself in as a character jack, all you need to do is justify Shae going out and finding it at the bottom of the ocean.

While true on the fluff count, that wouldn't give you the maximum threat range possible with Shae so far (17" without Push, vs 16.5" previously, 19" on the first turn). I don't know what you'd have to give that Freebooter to be as useful as this Mariner who can also shoot on turns it's not killing people in melee. This is one of the top Mercenary jacks, definitely better than Rocinante I would go so far as to say.

edit: which casters like it?

Shae: hells yeah (srsly)
Bart: yeah (it's a Mariner that's better in melee, what's not to like)
Fiona: give or take
pMagnus: haha yes, move away Mangler, Iron Aggression has a new boyfriend
eMagnus: yes (much needed threat range boost with melee jacks)
MacBain: oh yes (Fortune, Lash)
Damiano: yes, (threat range) but not necessarily a better choice than Rosie
Ashlynn: give or take with other characters, but a valid choice for sure
Constance: it's not Gallant

[CaGeRit]

Eh, extra 3" is a big deal, not to mention that it lets you spray without regard for being in melee with other models at the end of the charge (where previously you couldn't spray a Reach model from 2" or closer, thus losing at least 2" of the spray template). That's worth an extra point (it's a 4 point character jack FFS!).

I knew the 3" was nice, but didn't think about spraying while in combat, that actually makes a decent amount of sense now. Charge in, blast, hope you clear out enough to disengage the jack and move something in to protect the jack from reprisals. Rinse wash repeat (maybe only once or twice, but its a valid tactic).
And a fluff pet peeve (disregard as necessary)... I'm not sure if "Value" (cheapness) should be a primary trait of a character jack, they are supposed to be unique after all.

Also reading down the list of the prototype jacks, none of them really wow me. A few special rules here and there, but I'm more used to thinking of character jacks stepping outside of the designated role of their chassis. A sort of mechanical evolution which is result of surviving battles and overcoming their weaknesses. Though these aren't finished rules and who knows what may change.

[Choco]

Remember, these were put out there to test people. A Sentinal for Caine? Why isn't is a Charger, as I think in the fluff it mentions that it is his favorite jack? I don't think these are at all even close to what could be in the future. These are purposely unbalanced (whether too good or too bad is still to be seen) and are meant to challenge us to find out why and give good suggestions to fix them.

I always thought a Freebooter was more fitting for Shae and a Mariner for Bart, maybe that right there is part of the challenge for us? Yes, Shae would still use the crap out of it, but it's still just a test.

[CaGeRit]

I know I know. I just like to complain about things. If a gamer isn't complaining about something then something's not right.

Though along the lines of improving/changing things, what do people think about giving gorten's blaster a low pow ap weapon, probably a horn/bayonet or something along those lines. Call it Rhino or some such. Perhaps give it a little boost to slamming for a real in your face type jack, probably would up the points a little though.

[Inquisitor Wall]

A vanguard for Ashlynn would seem pretty logical to me. Probably one with some sort of a critical strike to work with her feat.

[PG_vytzka]

Light character jacks are difficult to do well. Since light jacks in general have pretty gimped stats they're already less desirable than heavies, and when you pile on special rules that don't increase those stats too much and make them cost as much as a heavy it becomes even shakier. That's why other character lights have an arc node, are something completely off the wall (Cankerworm) or simply stealth heavies (the MkI Karn).

Personally I'd like a vanguard but I think the preferred route to go would be the Karn route (heh). Give it weaponmaster on the guisarme, which makes it stand up to the nomad at the least, and one or two other rules to turn it into a mini (mega-?) Ashlynn (Quick Draw, Riposte, Virtuoso, Parry et al). For 7-8 points it would be fun and competitive.

[Ashcans]

Reading this thread I was not impressed by Assault on the Basher, because blowing one of Gorten's very limited focus for an additional 3" of range seemed like raw deal. But then I checked the PDF and saw that it has Aggressive as well, which hadn't been mentioned. That's a huge difference! Having it able to charge free means that you can just give it the one focus to boost with and still get the benefits of the Asssault. Great!

As far as character jacks I'd like to see, I'd love to see one for Ashlynn. Vytzka is right that light character jacks are difficult, but I think that the Vanguard is a great candidate for one because it is already an amazing light jack. While I would also love for Ashlynn to get some sort of unique Llael heavy, the reality is that I'm a little hard pressed to imagine a character heavy for her that would outperform Rocinante or Gallant.

[MagnustheJust]

Three things...

A) It says in the article by DC that these example character warjacks are just there to separate the wheat from the chaff as far as finding more external playtesting groups go.

B) @ CaGeRit : The Bunnies do have a melee attack, it is a bash attack. But that is secondary to getting free charge with POW 10 SPRAY 8 attack with fully boosted attack & damage rolls for one focus... Think about it!!

3) Character Mule for MacBain!!

[joelker41]

Vanguards are fun, a character one for Ashlynn would be really fun.

I would like some form of knockdown protection for Ashlynn (affinity maybe?), perhaps turn the gun into a blaster option.

Unfortunately a character vanguard really isn't what she needs. Her playstyle and theme force could use a well costed beatstick.

[Coinlord]

Three things...

3) Character Mule for MacBain!!

A mule? You suprise me. It's stated in his fluff that the first jack to respond to him was a mule and he seems to favor his mule's utility in the fluff, but in game he works better with a Nomad and his theme list even asks for two!
On a related note, doesnt it seem like the old cygnar handoffs would be the most likely to have personality quirks? they've been around for over a hundred years and been passed from user to user. Surely that's had to have made an impression on a bucket of bolts.

[PG_vytzka]

3) Character Mule for MacBain!!

Given the Nomad card quote, I find this unlikely.

[Choco]

When it comes to Ashlynn, I would love to see a Vanguard that doesn't have a shield, but much higher DEF, a slug gun in that hand, and then gunfighter/point blank, riposte (affinity?), parry and a slightly high MAT. Granted, I wouldn't mind seeing this as a Nomad too. What about a Mule for her?

Durgen seems like he would get either a Basher or an Avalancher.

Gorten seems to be made to get a Driller.

I'm surprised that Magnus doesn't have an actual character jack yet. He has the Renegades that are almost characters, and back in MKI the Manglers were also restricted to him, so why doesn't he have a character jack of each type by now?

Fiona is a funny one. A Mariner that let's her upkeep spells on it for free? Doesn't need a loader for it's gun? Counts as a Thamarite model.

MacBain!!! should have a Nomad as his. Don't know what it would do though.

Those are my ideas for the quick and dirty. Happy brainstorming.

[Heavygear]

I would like to see a character warjack for Rutger Shaw based on the art work from Iron Kingdoms. Stipulate that it can only be used with Rutger Shaw ala the Lesser Warlock battle group rules.

I would like to see a character Colossal for Bart.

[Weezinggg]

I think Shae's character jack is perfectly fine as is. Maybe even too good.

I think Grundbacks character bunny should have a magic gun since he has a weakness to incorporeal models. Id also like to see a new gun on the model to make it more distinguished from is bunny brethren.

[citcit4]

the charecter gun bunny should be able to swith between the 2 gun types and have either boosted range or rof

[baronvonchaos]

The thing I like about Shae's jack is that the "problem" with Privateer jacks is higher def but paper armor. They need to get that alpha strike (like cryx jacks) So anything that gives it that edge and lets it alpha strike something, I'm game for. The only problem is whatever it doesn't kill gets to scrap it next turn. The +1 DEF is totally nice, but woof. The problem I still have with the mariner is the Loader deal. The Long Range is fantastic with Dougal and Snipe from pMags.

All in all it comes down to what Vytzka said in post #5. I agree with those assertions. However Ashlynn can enjoy not getting knocked down all the while loading stuff to fire at decent range. Even to charge Ashlynn up, and move up behind her with Lash and fulfill the loader rule and shoot around her. The feat turn can really enhance its hitting power though. I just want it to have tall in the saddle to swing at everything in a full 4" arc >.


To answer the topic: Character WJ for Bart. Something with Range and melee, and an affinity of "Mark the Target" for some focus efficiency. Perhaps flare on the gun (Protectorate Reckoner).
A character Heavy for Ashlynn that grants Surefoot while not stationary for models within 5" or something cool like that. It'd be cool if it was a Llaelese heavy too.

[Ger]

Oddly if you look at stat lines. As much as we deride our Privateer jacks for being paper it's not that far off. Their damage grid is actually identical to a nomads. They have 30 out of a possible 36 boxes. 2 off the top left and top right as well as 11 off the bottom left and bottom right corners. Further they only have -1 base arm vs a Nomad and +2 armor. The trick is our non-privateer chasis also tends to have shields or bucklers.

So one way to look at it is -2 arm for +2 def. Another way is -1 arm -1 buckler for +2 def. At least vs a Nomad. Mangler is the only one with a unique base line of Def 11 Arm 19. Mules, Nomads, and Rovers all 10/18 vs 12/17.

I think the issue is we lack solid repairs and arm buffs. People commonly spend a lot of points to get access to Spiny Growth. So damage taken is often difficult to remove and Def 12 is 1 point off of the jack sweet spot I think.

Def 12 can be missed but isn't that hard for average 6 or slightly above 7s on 2d6. Where as arm 17 is in that sweet spot of dice rolls for taking damage. Often a damage roll that would have been 4 is now 6 and thus filling a grid.

So I think the Privateer jacks may be meatier then we like to give them credit for, but feel very bad because on average we are losing/risk losing systems. While the Def is much harder to feel because it's not quite high enough.

Also a Privateer chassis with a real shield would be pretty sweet. Gallants 13/18(19) is awesome and I wouldn't mind seeing a 13/17(19).


Not totally the right thread but I wanted to share my thoughts since it came up.

[SalsaShark]

I have always wanted a Nomad with two battle blades. A real offensive powerhouse.

[MrGloverGlover]

I'd like the join the 'jack-for-Ashlynn brigade.

Standard Vanguard chassis, then:
+1 DEF (so up to 14)
Critical: Knockdown on the guisarme
Affinity [Ashlynn]: Whilst within 2" of this model, Ashlynn is immune to blasts
Point cost: 6 (possibly 7, but I think we could get away with 6)

I did think about having a 2" no-knockdown effect (For Ashlynn only, not other models) but I think that'd generate too much hate, it is her main weakness after all and everyone needs one weakness.

[Ger]

Any character jack for Fiona had best have Affinity: Arc Node.

[Pydracor]

I really like the idea of that Vanguard MrGloverGlover.
To make it a bit more "ashlynny" (ashlynnesque? :P), I would like to see either Riposte (interesting with DEF14) or Imprint [Admonition] for 1 Focus

[CareyBear]

Any character jack for Fiona had best have Affinity: Arc Node.

I'd go for Blessed and Affinity: Cull Soul

[MrGloverGlover]

I really like the idea of that Vanguard MrGloverGlover.
To make it a bit more "ashlynny" (ashlynnesque? :P), I would like to see either Riposte (interesting with DEF14) or Imprint [Admonition] for 1 Focus

I'd love that too, but in the interest of balance and keeping the cost down, I'd probably add parry and increase the cost to 7pts.

How about that?

[PG_vytzka]

Any character jack for Fiona had best have Affinity: Arc Node.

A Talon with a Telgesh Mark'd Cultist Pressganger stapled to the shield?