Shield Guard is fixed. Sentinel returns to a majority of lists containing Stormwall?

[sepher32]

Protecting Arcane Shield is good. Discuss.

[Defenstrator]

Protecting Shield is good, but I don't know how much you need it. I have a pThag list that I run the Protector in, and his job is to get in the way and to catch stuff like ranged knockdown, Black Oil, etc. But the Stormwall can't get knocked down and can deal with Gorman itself. I can see it with a caster is has synergy with like Kraye or pHaley, but I certainly don't think it's a must have.

[sleet01]

I think Keith means protecting Junior is good. Like, versus Eiryss' death bolts, or MHSF sniping, or something? Screw up Pistol Wraiths, make Gorman very unhappy, things like that?

Edit: I think this will raise the Bokur's stock more than most in-faction SG models, but I'll admit I'm happy about how SG works now and will probably bring a Sentinel with most of my 'jack-heavy casters. They make a great low-investment Focus Battery for eNemo, and now I can run one behind Darius and his Storm Wall to suck off those annoying Disruption shots - plus it'll make a handy backup throwing weapon for Storm Walls if I don't have a Lightning Pod or Half-jack handy.

[sepher32]

Also it has one of the better guns, possibly the best gun of all the shield guards. The little guy often pays for himself.

[PG_n00buaddib]

I run two with eCaine. Put them in front and it's a solid wall behind which to park your caster for relatively low investment.

[GreenJello]

Also it has one of the better guns, possibly the best gun of all the shield guards. The little guy often pays for himself.

Really? Rng 10, random shots, all with 2" at POW 10, and he pays for himself?

Sorry, I put the Sentinel on my list of two things in Cygnar I will not run. Now that the Mechs are useful for BEs and Collosals even they have been taken off the list, leaving only the lowly Sentinel, what am I missing?

[sleet01]

It's a fair gun for a shield guard model. Granted, its current competition is what, the Vanguard? Does one of the Hordes SG models have a throwing spear or something?

[whats82]

I'd say the competition is Bokur. 3pt. You're not trying to intercept heavy weapon, so eEiryss, deathchill shot, occasional black oil and stuff like that. It also is more autonomous and hits harder in melee.

[PG_fildrigar]

It's a fair gun for a shield guard model. Granted, its current competition is what, the Vanguard? Does one of the Hordes SG models have a throwing spear or something?

Wold Watcher has a RNG 10 POW 12 "Turn you into a 3 inch forest" gun.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Wait. Which it? The Bokur or the Sentinel?

I'm thinking the Sentinel gets a second chance and Gallant will also get a lot more play. Even without Connie, an ARM19 Shield Guard is pretty nice.

[gr31]

I think Gallant makes a nice companion for pNemo. I'm still undecided on whether to get a Sentinel or not.

[Calibre]

I'm so happy that this is fixed, I want to start a Cygnar forum thread named: "Suck on this eLylyth". We've been feeling the pain of 3 Legion of Cheeze players fielding her with ravagore spam for the last two years, I guess those list's days are done.

[TerTer]

Don't forget that MHSF can't snipe your caster so easy too if you have SG model near him Now i want to get Gallant for SG and some backup in the list Or 2 sentinels

[knight_actual]

Shield guard isn't all that great against protecting against shooting damage. Taking only one shot out of many doesn't stop eLylyth for example. However, it is VERY good at protecting against the one deadly shot such as eEyriss taking your arcane shield away, Galleeon trying to drag you in, sniper trying to put that last box on rowdy hammer, etc.

That, and also it helps against random lucky shots.

[Brettman008]

Protecting Arcane Shield is good. Discuss.

It seems to me if you're running a SW if you're in for a penny you're in for a pound. Realistically, you're more than likely taking Jr. and Arlan/Mechanics if you're running a Stormwall. That's a 24 point investment, nearly half your list. The easiest way for many opponents to deal with that is strip AS and/or blind it with Black Oil, do a ton of damage to it, cripple it's effectiveness and hopefully finish it off the following round. As such, 4 points that prevent that from happening seems like a good investment to me.

As for the Bokur vs. Sentinel debate I believe the Sentinel is the clear winner. Not only is it significantly more durable but it has a decent gun. If you attach it to Arlan or Jr. focus for running won't be an issue.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

Sentinels take deathchill out of the equation too.

Yeah, that little chain gun just got awesome.

[GreenJello]

I think Gallant makes a nice companion for pNemo. I'm still undecided on whether to get a Sentinel or not.

Ditto! Need to get him completed so the old man can live through a game or two.

[Brettman008]

Sentinels take deathchill out of the equation too.

Yeah, that little chain gun just got awesome.

Death Chill slipped my mind. That makes 3 common ranged attacks you don't want connecting with the SW. Plus, against lists such as dual Ravagores, Harkavitch etc... that Sentinel just became extra damage boxes for your SW.

[GreenJello]

The easiest way for many opponents to deal with that is strip AS and/or blind it with Black Oil, do a ton of damage to it, cripple it's effectiveness and hopefully finish it off the following round.

While SG will protect against Death Chill and Eiyruss, I don't see how it can stop Gorman's Blind Oil, or other AoEs am I missing something?

[vintersbastard]

While SG will protect against Death Chill and Eiyruss, I don't see how it can stop Gorman's Blind Oil, or other AoEs am I missing something?

Well, the original target is no longer hit by the attack, so it doesn't suffer any effects. Note that the AOE does not get shifted around (even if it did, you could leave the Sentinel sufficiently far away so that the Stormwall isn't covered anymore).

[Soda Breeze]

Stormwall's base size eats all non-5" AoEs, so it's actually better the AoE doesn't get moved as that could potentially harm other things surrounding the Sentinel.

[Crate123]

It will only stop deathchill if the cryx player doesnt have 2 pistol wraiths. They do tend to be played in 2s.
A single sentinel will do next to nothing against an Elylyth list, stopping 1 shot wont do you much good if they are shooting your caster.
Its still very possible to hit the stormwall with black oil though, just run something close to it and target that instead, sure it makes it easier to miss but its still very doable.

[whats82]

Well, the original target is no longer hit by the attack, so it doesn't suffer any effects. Note that the AOE does not get shifted around (even if it did, you could leave the Sentinel sufficiently far away so that the Stormwall isn't covered anymore).

Wait, it doesn't shift the AE onto the new directly hit model ?

[vintersbastard]

Wait, it doesn't shift the AE onto the new directly hit model ?

As per this ruling.

[TerTer]

Wow that's great even better to run 2 sentinels

[whats82]

So, shield guard now has similar word as sac pawn in that .. that's whacky weird.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

It will only stop deathchill if the cryx player doesnt have 2 pistol wraiths. They do tend to be played in 2s.

I don't follow your thinking. Requiring both PWs to be committed on a single turn just to get the SW tied up once is a good thing. If they aren't running 2 PW it isn't even an issue. Cutting down on deathchill is just objectively good.

[Rolling_Thunder]

more kraye. That is all.

[leo_neil316]

I'd say the competition is Bokur. 3pt. You're not trying to intercept heavy weapon, so eEiryss, deathchill shot, occasional black oil and stuff like that. It also is more autonomous and hits harder in melee.

My responce to bokurs has always been the same.

Blow them up with guns. Then shoot the thing they were guarding.

Significantly harder to do to the 18 box more sentinel.

[GreenJello]

I don't follow your thinking. Requiring both PWs to be committed on a single turn just to get the SW tied up once is a good thing. If they aren't running 2 PW it isn't even an issue. Cutting down on deathchill is just objectively good.

While tieing up two PW is a good thing, it also means that the second PW will get through if you only have one model with shield guard. Thus it only requires 6 points to screw up a 18 point model. By hey, Cryx, it's fair! I mean if Cygnar's disruption worked, that would be a serious problem! But Cryx is an underdog faction and need help.

[Defenstrator]

Shield guard isn't all that great against protecting against shooting damage. Taking only one shot out of many doesn't stop eLylyth for example. However, it is VERY good at protecting against the one deadly shot such as eEyriss taking your arcane shield away, Galleeon trying to drag you in, sniper trying to put that last box on rowdy hammer, etc.

That, and also it helps against random lucky shots.

True story. For me the damage shots are secondary to catching those screw over range effects. Not having a Arcantrik Force Generator smack your heavy with Momentum, interrupting Death Chill, catching the Disruptor Bolt or Black Oil. It's job is to take it in the face so my heavies can do their thing unimpeded.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

While tieing up two PW is a good thing, it also means that the second PW will get through if you only have one model with shield guard. Thus it only requires 6 points to screw up a 18 point model. By hey, Cryx, it's fair! I mean if Cygnar's disruption worked, that would be a serious problem! But Cryx is an underdog faction and need help.

Well, yeah, man. But forcing both to drop incorporeal on the same turn is still better than getting hit by one then the other on successive turns.

Also, I play Kara. So, you know, return fire.

[sepher32]

Pretty sure that 2 pistol wraiths is actually a bad trade just to stop the colossal from moving for a turn(from the Cryx perspective). Particularly given that those 6 points did nothing else.

Situation may dictate otherwise of course, but sacrificing movement to remove 6 points is just fine by me.

[Joasht]

I run Stormwall with either ATGMs (+UA) or Black 13th (sometimes both) in a desperate attempt to try and weed out eEiryss/Gorman/Pistol Wraiths early on (helps that Stormsmiths can also kill the former two). The thing is, when you consider that your Stormwall probably already has a posse of support models (e.g. Jr., Arlan, Black 13th, A&H), adding even MORE support gives you a big "all eggs in one basket" problem.

That said, man I'm excited for Gallant (outside of Stormwall lists, of course).

[Soda Breeze]

It makes Kraye a lot better to play IMO especially in-tier when you don't have Junior to throw AS on him. Now those Sentinels on infantry clearing duty can keep him well and proper too.

[Crate123]

I don't follow your thinking. Requiring both PWs to be committed on a single turn just to get the SW tied up once is a good thing. If they aren't running 2 PW it isn't even an issue. Cutting down on deathchill is just objectively good.

I was merely stating that it wasnt the end to pistol wraiths everywhere
Its true though that often it wouldnt be worth it to sacrifice 2 pistol wraiths simply to deathchill the stormwall but its an option.

[Ender101]

I think that the Sentinel might be back in business. If one is looking for a defensive Cygnar piece its hard to beat, arm 18 with shield guard is nice in the 4 point slot. Plenty of boxes and able to shoot a gun makes it a happy little jack. Its not a jack for each caster, and it does have some fairly reputation damaging limitations.

If one thinks of it as an offensive piece you're bound to be disappointed in its damage output. Despite my love of chain guns, strafe is a pretty lack luster ability overall, especially as the initial target eats a lot of attacks according to a ruling by Macallan in this thread: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...=1#post1097258. So as an offensive piece, it has average Cygnar RAT and POW and a variable rate of fire which basically lays a selective and mildly useful aoe which requires to hit rolls and independent boosts. To be a gun to be proud of it would need something to go along with it. The pow of the gun is too low to threaten anything above medium infantry, and against heavy infantry the focus load required to boost the damage is draining on the caster.


So the sentinel's utility is really one of perspective. If it is considered to be a decent defensive piece with a gun tacked on it makes more sense as to how it can be useful.

I second that Kraye likes Sentinels, Guided Fire and keeping his big butt safe makes for more wild west stories.

[RidetheLightning]

more kraye. That is all.

This x 100!

[The Anders]

If only it had covering fire..

[leo_neil316]

While that would be nice they'd have to drive the cost way up, to like, 6 points. And then you're stepping on the cyclone and trencher chain guns toes.