Delivery for you... BOOM!

[baronvonchaos]

I debated on the title being "Candy-gram for Mongo." but It didn't quite fit. Anywho.

I wanted to post a merc tactics thread to see if anyone has any ideas on this.

Have you ever noticed that whoever can out-threat (movement shenanigans) or out-range (RNG'd attacks) will win 90% of the time?

I have actually 2 guys at my local game store who are excellent tacticians. I usually lose to them. One guy plays legion and net-listed the guy from L&L's eVayl list. He began to cycle admonition and Refuge on a Ravagore, Angelius, and what have you and just yo-yo back and forth. This tactic will destroy any army I can think of because I just don't have the range to get to them in Melee, much less get to them with a ranged attack.

Eyeless sight ignores everything but cover and the only Rock Wall we have is on the SPD 4 team. If it takes 3-4 turns to get there, even a shooting Angelius will whittle down troops with Insane efficiency.

I played this list yesterday and learned a few things.
Highborne, 35pts
Ashlynn
-Nomad
Anastasia Di Bray
Devil Dogs Min
-Mule
10 Long Gunners
Precursor Knights Min
- Precursor UA
Reinholdt
Rhupert.

Here's what I leraned. I need to sack 2 pts in here somewhere to get Thor in there. I kept having my Nomad brained before I could even get him decently into combat. Being able to fix a cortex and/or Right arm would be golden.

I played against Khador and Legion. With Khador I got "Page 5-y" and over ambitious. I played against Irusk, Uhlans, Full IFP and UA, Great Bears, and Conquest.
Needless to say I didn't get to conquest, but I did take Irusk down to 4 health. Not a bad game. I did do things wrong though and my crazy plan wouldn't have worked.

The second game I played against Legion with pThags, Typhon, Carnivean, Bolt thrower, and a Ravagore with a Shepherd. I missed killing the shepherd 1 round and got the Carnivean down to 3 health... I couldn't deliver the caster kill because the whole game pThags hid behind a wall and doled out Spiny Growth. He did dragon breath Di Bray though. The game was somewhat intense, I think I did well for having him in an incredibly defensible position and taking Thags down to half health before a bolt found Ashlynn and pasted her. I forgot about quick draw though... A scenario would have greatly diminished the "hiding in a structure" shenanigans.

All in all I thought I did pretty well.
Thoughts on this list, ideas are appreciated.

TL;DR

I played a list and lost because I didn't have much ranged threat to keep advancing and throwing threat down range. I also don't have superior threat. Does this game come down to who can out threat the other? If that's the case, why would you ever take melee troops? You'll get shot to pieces with even a semi-decent shooty list. Forgeguard don't make it to the front line even with Quicken. Def 12 is cake to hit and with things like 2 man CRA's from a long gunner or just widowmakers can ace half a unit a turn. How do people overcome that? Any links or lists that are "good" for Ashlynn? I am trying to refine my list a bit, but it seems fairly decent. I'm getting kited and I can't seem to fix the problem, or even punish the ranged foe for retreating.

[Kallas]

Does this game come down to who can out threat the other? If that's the case, why would you ever take melee troops?

Short Answer: no.

Essentially, you're going to be looking at one thing for your list: can I get the Alpha Strike (ie, will I hit first or be hit)? This is important for how you build your force and how you use it on the table.

If you're never going to get the Alpha Strike, you'll want to look at tougher options, ones that require a greater investment to remove from the game. Typically, Warjacks are better in this roll, as they combine high ARM with a large number of boxes, than infantry who will usually die to a single hit each (excepting heavy infantry like Cetrati and Men-o-War, or buff-stacked units such as Temple Flameguard.) For examples of successful non-Alpha Strike lists, look to the Trolls, who are renowned for the Champion Brick (Champions under the Krielstone and Iron Flesh and/or Wind Wall) or Khador, where the plethora of high DEF and/or Tough mitigates the advantage of hitting them first.

Without going into a huge post, you'll also want to evaluate how you're getting there and how you're presenting your own forces. Are my primary damage dealers up front and exposed? Am I clogging myself up with useless screening? Etc, etc.

Finally, and very, very importantly: scenarios. The game is balanced with scenarios in mind (look at eHaley, eDenny, Rahn, etc who all thrive in scenarios and prefer games that are not purely caster kill) and if you're playing pure caster kill, your statement of threat range wins is definitely true. Scenarios force engagement by presenting an alternative win condition. Those Ravagores might be tearing your infantry up from a million miles away, but you've claimed that objective and carried off the important artifact/chest o' gold/arbitrary scenario macguffin.

Hope this helps.

[PG_LEJKaya]

Have you ever noticed that whoever can out-threat (movement shenanigans) or out-range (RNG'd attacks) will win 90% of the time?

No.

I play Circle and this is manifestly not true.

[lastspartacus]

Stagger your lines.

[rydiafan]

Stagger your lines.

Give this man a cigar.

[baronvonchaos]

I'll get him a cigar if I get one too. We'll smoke together, Play WM/H...

I got a feeling that Kallas hit the nail on the head. This game is balance by scenarios. Hmm. I'll have to look more into these.
　
When you have Ravagores lobbing shots at you from a football field away, it makes it ridiculous to try and get to them with your force somewhat in tact. However, these ranged lists would failboat pretty hard in scenario.
　
Playing pMagnus t4 list with a steelhead strike force (full Halbies, min Cav, stannis @35pts) is sometimes balls against ranged lists. With low number of ranged troops and a max 18" threat range on cav (if I want to throw them away), I don't see much of a "win" there save by scenario. Blur can help with this, but against Ossyan, it gets dicey (no pun intended).
The next question I have is what people use for caster kill scenarios. Another thread...