Long Gunner Revolver Rifles: Why they don't make sense

[Jake the Dog]

Revolver Rifles where once developed in Real Life history. They where discarded quickly because the can cause damage to the user. Whenever a revolver fires, there is gunpowder exiting the bullet chambers going forward, which is no issue in a revolver pistol. But guess what would be in front of the bullet chambers in a revolver rifle? Yep, the user's hand.

I dunno if this is a matter discussed before but I wanted to share my thoughts.

[Nanoha]

A properly engineered revolver can solve that - the Soviet Nagant revolver is the only one of it's kind that can be silenced. In order for that to work the cylinder has to be closed enough that no pressure can escape out the sides to make a sound, which I imagine also precludes powder scatter as well

[PitLord]

if you follow the fluff from the role playing game the firearms in the Iron Kingdoms do not use gunpowder but a strange alchemal mix. Apparently it does not have the same issue.

[Leprousy]

I personally feel that in a world of steam powered robots that defy the laws of physics you are FAR to worried about a small detail.

Really behemoths spindly legs can't even hold all that weight in scale! Plus, the joints are hydraulic with steam power?!?! Oh wait, the hip joints don't even have a hydraulic piston attached, much less the 12 needed to make a hip work?

[PG_Gearjock]

I suggest you google image a Rossi Circuit Judge. Revolver rifles work just fine.

[kolonelk]

Damn, now I'm going to feel really silly blowing away undead monstrosities, magical coal-powered robots and rampaging monstrous beasts with my historically suboptimal guns

[9breaker]

OP has a good point...wait a second. Now that I think about it, magic, mentally controlled steam powered robots and monster... None of that makes sense either!!! ***

[Jake the Dog]

A properly engineered revolver can solve that - the Soviet Nagant revolver is the only one of it's kind that can be silenced. In order for that to work the cylinder has to be closed enough that no pressure can escape out the sides to make a sound, which I imagine also precludes powder scatter as well

Yeah, I googled that revolver. While it features a gas seal engineering design, it makes it reload only one bullet at a time ("Nagrant revolvers had to be reloaded one cartridge at a time through a loading gate, with the need to manually eject each of the used cartridges, making reloading laborious and time-consuming."). Because of how the Long Gunner Revolver Rifle reload is described, I'm not so sure they employed similar engineering.
But if they did use this firearm engineering design, it's hilarious that Cygnar used real life Soviet firearm engineering instead of Khador.

if you follow the fluff from the role playing game the firearms in the Iron Kingdoms do not use gunpowder but a strange alchemal mix. Apparently it does not have the same issue.

Gunpowder or not, a combustion in a revolver without a gas seal should produce exhaust that leaves out of the chambers.

[Nanoha]

Because of how the Long Gunner Revolver Rifle reload is described, I'm not so sure they employed similar engineering.
But if they did use this firearm engineering design, it's hilarious that Cygnar used real life Soviet firearm engineering instead of Khador.

That's true, the Cygnar revolver rifle seems to have a combination of features (swap out cylinders, gas seal, weird lever action) that seems like it wouldn't work as a real weapon.

[GreenJello]

This is your only problem with LGs? You obviously haven't heard the lamentations of the Cygnar players!

BTW, Gyrosluggers don't work either, but all the Space Marines lug them around too!

[stonet13]

OP has a good point...wait a second. Now that I think about it, magic, mentally controlled steam powered robots and monster... None of that makes sense either!!! ***

No, no, no, stop... if you stop believing the entire world will come to a crashing halt!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ujRE...e_gdata_player

[Bubbles]

But this is set in a world where they have mechanical limbs and Magic powered robots.

[sourclams]

What if you just wore a glove?

[GreenJello]

What if you just wore a glove?

You mean, like the models ALREADY DO?!?!??! This IS MADNESS!!!!!!!1

[Jake the Dog]

You mean, like the models ALREADY DO?!?!??! This IS MADNESS!!!!!!!1

Art shows no gloves:

[Nanoha]

Art shows no gloves:

But at least he's wearing his goggles, my chem. professor would approve

[Leprousy]

Art shows no gloves:

I love that fact that you argue the rational, and ignore all of the posts pointing out the irrational silliness of this discussion.

[Jake the Dog]

I love that fact that you argue the rational, and ignore all of the posts pointing out the irrational silliness of this discussion.

All the posts saying "it's a fantasy setting, forget about it" are borderline strawman arguments, instead of discussing the logic behind the gun design, they point that the setting is fantasy therefore there are no rules of logic. The setting is fantasy, but most of the gunpowder technology (almost all firearms, a lot of the artillery, etc.) used in it seems grounded on real word physics.

[GreenJello]

Art shows no gloves:

Um, yeah, but the MODELS clearly have it, I should know having painted 10 of the blighters!

Also, if it really is a serious issue, I think some simple leather gloves would be an easy thing to issue.

[MadJack]

Wait, that's your problem with the long gunner rifle? Not the fact that the revolving section clearly can't revolve because seen from the front it's actually shaped like a figure 8 on its side rather than a circle? And not the fact that it doesn't seem to line up with the gun barrel?

[jandrese]

They have fingerless gloves!

Anyway, given the way the model is holding the weapon in the art, it looks like it's more of an issue for the forearms, and I note that the Long Gunners appear to have some sort of leather guard on their forearms.

I don't think the powder that the IK uses will be any better at this than gunpowder. It's still a hot expanding gas that is spraying out in a knife-like jet when you fire the weapon.

[Jake the Dog]

Um, yeah, but the MODELS clearly have it, I should know having painted 10 of the blighters!

Also, if it really is a serious issue, I think some simple leather gloves would be an easy thing to issue.

Fingerless gloves. They'll cook like hotdogs either way.

[GreenJello]

Fingerless gloves. They'll cook like hotdogs either way.

I don't think you really understand the powder burn patterns of the mk III Cygnar Standard Issue Long Rifle. Nemo himself has designed the new fingerless gloves to ensure that our poorly trained Long Gunner Riflemen are able to fire more than a volley or two before being brutally slaughtered by the forces of Cryx. Before allowing them out into the field Nemo had months and months of testing to ensure that the rifle was far more dangerous to the enemies of Cygnar than our own troops.

[Aedric]

Its quite clear that it really means the people of cygnar aren't actually human and are some weird genetically modified humans.

Its the only way it explains the guns!

I could never could quite put my mind on what was so unsettling about the cygnarian populace.

[Joker331]

What if they just wanted to make the model look "cool"?

[Vedrial]

I guess it's true that everyone has their own flying snowman. Another point for Scalzi.

[c-mac]

Art shows no gloves:

I would like to point out that in front of the cylinder there is a plate that would deflect the ejecting powder

[Lanz]

All things considered, those revolver chambers don't look conventional anyways. They may already have whatever safey measures are needed to cover or redirect the escaping gas.

[kolonelk]

And who's to say the IK gunpowder actually creates hot gases, maybe it actually ejects a pleasant minty vapour?

[Lich_Lord_X]

And who's to say the IK gunpowder actually creates hot gases, maybe it actually ejects a pleasant minty vapour?

Can you buy IK gun powder in different flavors? Like what if I want strawberry flavored or cotton candy flavored gunpowder?

[Bunny de Guerre]

Can you buy IK gun powder in different flavors? Like what if I want strawberry flavored or cotton candy flavored gunpowder?

Welll, I know now what my first character in the IK RPG will be trying to make. As far as I recall, the gunpowder equivalent for Iron Kingdoms is two separate powders / materials that, when combined, explode, so you could sell mix and match flavours. Lemon in the first powder, lime in the other and - bang! Fresh, fruity mist with every shot!

[Saladin]

Fuhgetabout it

[dracphelan]

Actually, they are still used today. A very simple solution was discovered. A metal shield that prevents the gasses from injuring the user. They are more popular in other countries whose laws greatly restrict what semi-auto rifles civilians are allowed to own. This is an example of one from Brazil.

[Leprousy]

All the posts saying "it's a fantasy setting, forget about it" are borderline strawman arguments, instead of discussing the logic behind the gun design, they point that the setting is fantasy therefore there are no rules of logic. The setting is fantasy, but most of the gunpowder technology (almost all firearms, a lot of the artillery, etc.) used in it seems grounded on real word physics.

I was referring to the posts pointing out that the most important underlying principals of applied engineering don't work. Hence, why i said rational. The game is about giant steam powered robots, which as modeled cannot possibly function, unless their motive power is magical (which it is not.) As designed none of the ball and socket joints have any means of applying force to move them, so their shoulders and hips cannot move. In addition, to get really picky for steam powered robots to function boilers have to be regularly stoked, filled with water, and pressure regulated. This would require a team of engineers running around on the battlefield hauling carts of coal, and drums of water.

I guess I have to ask that if you can buy into the violation of physics in the very machines of the game called Warmachine doesn't nit picking the operation of a revolving rifle become a little narrow sighted?

I personally am more than willing to accept these issues, because I think steam driven giant robots are bad ***.

[Top]

The revoler rifle was no big thing to me. If you want to get fussy I'm far more curious why there never seem to be any relief valves depicted for the boilers on Warjacks.

I took some O-Gauge steam whistles and modded my Cygnar heavies.

[kolonelk]

I personally am more than willing to accept these issues, because I think steam driven giant robots are bad ***.

Exactly. It's like wondering why Tough rolls apply equally to being hit by a Choir member's stick as to being hit by a tree trunk wielded by Mulg.

[Mustakrakish]

"Ha! Rifles."

[Lord of ???]

The gasses from a revolver shot are only dangerous when in close proximity.

After a very short space it's just a warm breeze and not a high pressure super heated cutting wave.


The only time they would have a problem would be if they were to grip the chamber rather than the grip.

[Lord of ???]

Double post

[PG_Feeple]

Actually, they are still used today. A very simple solution was discovered. A metal shield that prevents the gasses from injuring the user. They are more popular in other countries whose laws greatly restrict what semi-auto rifles civilians are allowed to own. This is an example of one from Brazil.

eah, I always thought there was a small cap on the front of the ammo cylinder that caused the combustion to out sideways, rather than forwards. I guess that means LG are a threat to each other?