New IK RPG: Darkvision, Low-light vision and normal vision.

[Luciano]

In the character creation preview, there is no mention about vision types. So, no darkvision for trollkin and normal vision for all races?

[DarkLegacy]

In the character creation preview, there is no mention about vision types. So, no darkvision for trollkin and normal vision for all races?

Preview is just that, a preview. We have no real idea on vision, carrying capacity, or really anything else than what was provided.

[Luciano]

I thought the preview pages were samples of the final book. It was reasonable for me to think this kind of information should be in the race description, isn't it?

[PPS_Simon]

Things like Darkvision and such were artifacts of the d20 rules and not really part of how we envisioned our non-human races, so those abilities were not included in the new game.

[Luciano]

Thanks, Simon! Actually this also make the things easier for us GMs when running a game.

[Goliath]

Also, the Dregg entry in NQ43 states that they have Night Vision, so it's not like the ability is gone completely. Maybe it will be available to certain Careers, we won't know for sure till the book comes out.

[The Happy Anarchist]

Yeah, I imagine that special vision types are going to be much more rare.

[Sosthenes]

So no more Fellcallers singing cover versions of Queensrÿche's "I only dream in infrared"?

[DragnTyr]

While this is not really a deal breaker for me, it is really disappointing and strike one for me against this new game system (I will wait for the final word until I have the books in hand though). So far I am not really impressed that the game is looking a feeling like a Mini War-game with RPG elements added in and getting rid of most of the Sub vision types or at least cutting back on what there are and what races get them, seems a lot like they got rid of that mechanic due to it not fitting well with their game concept more than anything else. This is the same thing that some video game developers use with the game engines that they use, they just keep recycling the old engine cobling on new mechanics that the engine just can not or does not handle well... I really hope this is not the case, I am excitedly waiting for this set of book releases to know more though.

I do agree that not every monster had to have a darkvision/infrared vision, but even creatures on earth are noted for having different types of senses to see from every thing a tremor type sense to feel sense, just plain having better eyesight in darkness.

So I will keep converting my Ironkingdoms game over to the Hero Game System, as it is the best game system that I have ever found, it is able to give you flavor, development, flexibility, and more. The down side is due to the way the game system rules and the shier number of options it can be overwhelming for noobs.

[DarkLegacy]

While this is not really a deal breaker for me, it is really disappointing and strike one for me against this new game system (I will wait for the final word until I have the books in hand though). So far I am not really impressed that the game is looking a feeling like a Mini War-game with RPG elements added in and getting rid of most of the Sub vision types or at least cutting back on what there are and what races get them, seems a lot like they got rid of that mechanic due to it not fitting well with their game concept more than anything else. This is the same thing that some video game developers use with the game engines that they use, they just keep recycling the old engine cobling on new mechanics that the engine just can not or does not handle well... I really hope this is not the case, I am excitedly waiting for this set of book releases to know more though.

I do agree that not every monster had to have a darkvision/infrared vision, but even creatures on earth are noted for having different types of senses to see from every thing a tremor type sense to feel sense, just plain having better eyesight in darkness.

So I will keep converting my Ironkingdoms game over to the Hero Game System, as it is the best game system that I have ever found, it is able to give you flavor, development, flexibility, and more. The down side is due to the way the game system rules and the shier number of options it can be overwhelming for noobs.

So your belief that Trollkin should have Darkvision is a strike against a system that was built specifically for IK, instead of bolting on the IK to DnD 3.5? The developers have stated that non-humans don't have those sort of sight changes in their world. What more could you ask for?

[PG_Dalthoraz]

So we will probably see things like eyeless sigh ala legion in some creatures I'm sure. We all ready see see night vision on monsters in NQ 43. This system is IK not DnD so it doesnt make sense for trolls to have dark vision. I expect to see eyeless on legion stuff and other things with night vision. But heck dark vision is the least of my worries. The only thing I have seen that bothers me is the starting career only column in the table of the character building preview.

[Sthiel]

The concern is that maybe its not built specifically for IK, but built to be compatible with Warmachine / Hordes and any concessions made to make that viable.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

WARMACHINE and HORDES were built specifically for the IK.

[Weaselcreature]

Doug beat me to it, but that's exactly what I was going to say. The IK came before the table-top game; they made concessions putting their setting into an existing, well-known system, which helped build a customer base. The table-top game was their own system, thus concessions weren't needed, now they are making their own RPG system, and can create it to closer fit the original idea.

[DragnTyr]

So your belief that Trollkin should have Darkvision is a strike against a system that was built specifically for IK, instead of bolting on the IK to DnD 3.5? The developers have stated that non-humans don't have those sort of sight changes in their world. What more could you ask for?

This is not what I said, As for the system being "build specifically for IK" while not inaccurate is how ever misleading. The Core system of this RPG now matter how you want to wash it in words is completely build on PP's Miniature chassy (which is one of the best Mini games I have ever played), not build from the ground up to be a new RPG system do not be fooled. That is why if you scroll through the forums that there is lots of threads with this being a concern.

Now I believe that having a great RPG system on a the PP core is possible, it is just going to comedown to mechanics and options (not just Jobs and the skills those jobs give you everyone has a hobby). Which is the topic of many threads lately. I believe that removing some of the vision options as being a reduction of options, not making creatures that should not have them have them less of a playable option. In my example I was pointing out that Normal creatures have different vision options, granted they evolve from living in their chosen environment more than some arbitrary person saying "here you need this because I say you do". It is about options, all RPG games are about options and removing this leads to those that do not feel there is enough options.

I know that in a perfect world each race would have a core base stats, then a long list of other cool benefits that they get to have and you get to choose 3 more to add to your core base stats. This would make each trolkin you come up against different as you have no Idea if they have the super regen, or how about the Massive strength, or even better eye site then normal. It is about options.

With out seeing the books this game system is very basic. I am hoping that there are some more advanced options to add more flavored option because so far the cost of stat increases is expensive, you can imagine that skills is going to be the same and judging from the Epic stats not going to provide lots of variation except what your classes/job offer. Any way I will not be saying any thing more on this as it is changing the thread to a different conversation. I have said what I want to say.

Peace be with you all!!

[PG_snapshot_superhero]

I think the thing that many people on these boards seem to miss is that the original 3.5 IK was shoehorned into the D&D game system. The current Iron Kingdoms game coming out isn't "IK 3.5 MkII" it is the Iron Kingdoms as they were always intended to be. It isn't a bastardized version of the previous IK. The previous IK was a bastardized version of the current system.

The great thing about the whole situation, is that if people don't like the current system, it's not like all the previous books have been gathered up and burned. Feel free to play the 3.5 system if that is what they prefer. To each their own.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

To be clear, if there was a pressing need for a particular race to have something similar to darkvision, an ability would be made to allow it. (Indeed, one was created for the Dregg already, called "Night Vision.") None of the races presented in Book 1 of the RPG qualify. Special vision was never a core aspect of any of the main Iron Kingdoms races and in retrospect I wish we had not given it to any of them. That's one of the things that making a new RPG allows us to do.

To this day I can't provide any good explanation why trollkin ever had darkvision in d20. It makes little sense. Trollkin spend no significant portion of their time in darkness. Even dwarves--some of whom spend more time underground than our other prominent races--bring light sources when going into dark places, just like humans would. Our dwarves have become quite comfortable with working in deep mines and have created underground dwellings with greater frequency than other races, but they still use light to see by, as would a human from Caspia who spends most of his life in the communities built entirely inside that city's extensive walls. Similarly, there's no good reason for gobbers or elves to have better vision in low light conditions than humans. Iosan cities are nicely lit, and are indeed brighter at night than most human cities. The elven soldiers stationed along the Iosan border at night rely on similar methods as humans, including making use of magic and technology to create optics intended to augment their natural sight.

Moving forward it is best to adopt the same open-minded attitude as we suggested with the release of Mk II for WARMACHINE and HORDES. While a love of the old RPG is appreciated and understandable, I recommend putting aside your preconceptions. Many things will be different. Most of the non-rule background information still applies and is of value, but some of this has also been revised, updated, clarified, and integrated into the new system (as well as being brought forward to 608 AR). This is a new RPG in every respect. While some quibbling about what is different is expected and inevitable, players need to understand that this is a new game and approach it as such. Having a similar ruleset as the miniature games does not prevent this game from being a true RPG. Instead similar rules allow for easier learning between the different games we produce. The focus of the RPG is quite different from the miniature games and the rules reflect that. Indeed, there are a number of significant differences which will need to be learned by WARMACHINE/HORDES players venturing into the RPG. But the rules reflect the sensibilities of our company and its game designers and developers. I think you will find that if you embrace them, exciting times are ahead for those launching into adventures in the Iron Kingdoms.

[J. Beatnik]

I just had a party idea: 3 stormsmiths and a warcaster with a firefly. Triangulate like a BOSS.