Advice for 25pts?

[Whut]

So I'm new to WM/H and in a slow grow league that just hit 25 points (we grow every 2 weeks).

Now at 15 the choices were limited to what I had at the time, and I've wishlisted a lot for what I want at 35 and 50, but 25 points is that perfect mid-range where you get a decent amount of points, but EVERYTHING counts and there isn't much room for fodder. As in every piece on the board still counts heavily to the outcome of the game.

I'm stuck as to what to bring at 25 points. Any advice?

Thanks!

[CeltKhan]

Start with what you want for 35/50 and work backwards. When I did slow-grow, I believe I added Satyxis Raiders, UA, and Captain at 25. With Skarre, it was pretty effective.

[Aggy]

I would add a full unit of Bane Knights to your list. They are effective and your opponant will have to destroy them all in one turn or you will get the vengeance move during your maintenance phase of the following turn. They have reach and ghostly. I don't think they are as robust as the bane thralls, due to the bane thralls having tough from the UA and stealth naturally, but they are more potent when they reach the enemy.

[midnightcarnival]

It also depends on the caster that you want to play as well. For example, at 25pts with prime Deneghra, I would use 2 nightwretches, 2 pistol wraiths, 2 warwitch sirens, a skarlock, gorman, and min bane thralls with the UA. This is obviously not what you'd like to start with if you were to play either Skarre for example. CeltKhan has the right idea, start from your 35 and 50 point wishlists, then strip it down to the bare minimums of what you feel is absolutely needed with the list and build that.

[juckto]

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...-start-Cryx-eh

[Dragon2439]

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...-start-Cryx-eh

Jucto is that your purpose on the Cryx forums now? Post this link for newbies? How is that not a sticky?

[Whut]

Well I already saw the "start Cryx" thread, read through it, but I still dont know the good synergies at 25 points. A lot of that thread is geared towards 35-50 points is it not? For example, you wouldn't run Malice + Combine at 25 would you? (No, really, would you? I have no clue :X)

Also I don't know which of our casters don't work at lower points. I don't want to buy a new caster who only fits his/her role at 35 pts or above

[Dragon2439]

Well the problem with that is diffent casters shine at different levels, and tend to perform worse at higher or lower points.

Look at pGoreshade. At 15 and 25 his feat is quite significant because 6 free bane thralls can shift the balance quite a bit. At 35 its helpful, but not a major shift. At 50+ its pretty pleh. Granted there are circumstances where this changes, but in general it holds.

Morty on the other hand. I would be iffy to run her at 35, never lower, but at 50 she really shines.

pDenny, the witch coven, scaverous, pSkarre, and pGaspy are all casters that more or less are good across the point scale.

[juckto]

Hey, when newbs start asking different questions I'll start giving different answers.

And FYI while it isn't stickied, it is linked to from the sticky "How to Fully Reanimate". While we're on the topic, I wouldn't want to see anymore stickied threads because it's cluttered enough as it is. Well, not cluttered, but a good number. I've seen forums with about 10 stickied threads and it always seems half of them are years out of date.

+Edit. Actually now that I look, it's actually buried halfway through the Reanimate thread and not that easy to find. Hmm, perhaps it could do with being stickied.

@ OP:
No, the "So you're looking to start Cryx" is aimed at going from 15 points (battlebox) to 25 points. The list it talks about is:

Deneghra (+5)
Slayer (6)
Deathripper (4)
Death ripper (4)
Defiler (5)
Mechanithralls – max size (5)
Necrosurgeon (2)
Skarlock (2)
Warwitch Siren (2)
Total: 25

If that's not the direction you want to go in, then you need to give some feedback why, and what you prefer instead.

[Whut]

Oh, sorry. I think I misclicked the link and had a tab already open of the "So you want to serve the Dragonfather...what you need to know to be a loyal minion" thread, and assumed that was the one.

I like that thread, now after reading it I can say it was quite helpful, but I would like to explore (by which I mean ask you guys about) other options like Skarre, Gaspy, Raiders, Banes, etc, etc, etc that can also be played at that point level.

[juckto]

I like pGaspy, play him a lot. I tend to do something like:
pGaspy (+6)
- Arc node (4)
- Arc node (4)
- Cankerworm (5)
Skarlock (2)
Banes - Min (5)
Bane UA (3)
Filler to suit (Bane Lord Tartatus, extra Banes, or whatever) (8)
25

Some people will bag on the Cankerworm in comparison to the Ripjaw, but I like its Stealth, Pathfinder, and nice damage grid. Let alone its affinity and imprint.
Skarlock is there to cycle Scything Touch between Banes and Cankerworm.
Banes are there for obvious reason.
The list will struggle with difficult terrain as is, but noone at my club has caught onto that yet.

[Deo85]

The list will have trouble agents casters/units that can ignore stealth as well I come up agents that in my 35pnt stealth list many a times sadly.

[midnightcarnival]

Here's a sample Skarre and epic Skarre list that I sometimes run at 25 points (she's definitely one of my favourite casters as far as fluff goes, luckily, she also plays very well):

In prime form...

Pirate Queen Skarre (+6 WJ pts)
- Helldiver (3pts)
- Helldiver (3pts)
Skarlock (2pts)
General Gerlak Slaughterborn (3pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)
Max. Satyxis Raiders (8pts)
Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
Satyxis Blood Witches (6)
Satyxis Blood Hag (2)


and her epic form:

Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast (+6 WJ pts)
- Deathjack (12pts)
- Ripjaw (5pts)
Skarlock (2pts)
Max. Satyxis Raiders (8pts)
Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)

[juckto]

I find that even if they ignore stealth it's still a lot of models with tough for them to blast apart.

[Whut]

So I tried out that pDenny list and I like it. Thanks for all the advice guys. In two Saturdays we are having a mini-tournament to finish off the 25 before we jump to 30, and its a two list tourney with scenarios and killbox.

I'm worried that pDenny can't deal well with massed infantry (in particular there is one chap that favors spamming Knights Exemplar with EKreoss) if the player is smart enough to not clump his guys and get hit by venom. In this instance even if I run in and kill several of them, whatever is left can hit me back even harder.

Am I just plain wrong, or not? And in any case, what second caster would you recommend me to take in addition to pDenny?

Here is my list:
Deneghra (+5)
Slayer (6)
Deathripper (4)
Death ripper (4)
Mechanithralls – max size (5)
Necrosurgeon (2)
Skarlock (2)
Warwitch Siren x2 (4) - I swapped the Defiler out for a second WW and pistol wraith, as I don't think I needed a third Node
Pistol Wraith (3) - This guy seems to under perform, he kills 1-2 models and then takes hits back, and I'm afraid to get him anywhere near an enemy caster or ArcNode. Maybe I'm not using it right.
Total: 25

[juckto]

Well, you can always try jamming his knights with mechanithralls. Just keep a stitch thrall close enough to collect bodies without being killed off in turn.
Pistol wraith, as I understand it, should be used against key models. For instance hit an enemy heavy warjack three times (not too hard with their low defence), and it won't do much of anything next turn.

[Whut]

Well that won't work because Kreoss feats and all 10 mechthralls die in a single turn. Even with crippling grasp the Knights still auto hit and auto kill.

[Chouraku]

Well that won't work because Kreoss feats and all 10 mechthralls die in a single turn. Even with crippling grasp the Knights still auto hit and auto kill.

Try to position the mechanithralls so that his knights can't get to all of them.
Then if he uses the rest of his army to finish them off you'll be in a good position as he's used his feat and several activations to take out your 5pt unit, likely clustered up the knights for venom goodness and thrown away his best chance of being able to hit Deneghra.

[Whut]

Good point Chouraku

Well, regardless, what do you think would be a good second caster? And what do you think cant be handled by pDenny?

[Aggy]

I might consider that you go with a Morty Tier 4 list.

Morty +4
Deyerlus (SP?)
Harrower 9
Slayer 5
Slayer 5
Reaper 6
WWS 2
WWS 2

This list should serve you well.