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  1. #1
    Alekzander
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    Default Magnus vs. Seaforge - Which is better for a Beginner?

    Hey there guys!

    I decided to start a merc force.


    I am thron beteween Dwarves or the Magnus agenda.

    I love Ogruns, but I also love Magnus specific Warjacks and the Idrians he can field.


    Can someone present the strenghts and weakness of both forces?

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    DevonV
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    Searforge is slow as all hell, but they pack a punch and sure can take a hit. You can field multiple ARM 18 and 19 models, including a caster with BASE 19 ARM. Gunbunnies (Gunners and Blasters) are so good they'd be broken if not for the shortage of Rhulic focus. Powerful Attack on a spray erases infantry, no matter how elite or well armored it is. Only Man-O-Wars or Bastions or the like stand a chance against it. Five Gunners is an unholy amount of fire you can force your opponent's to wade through to get to you. Drillers can kill anything if you can get them to the target. You can also play an enraged bear and his angry dwarven buddy.

    Their weakness is they are very slow and not very flexible. Their model selection is very limited, and it's almost all slow and short range.


    Magnus plays a seat of your pants hit and run style. (That's why his feat is called Hit-and-Run) He too has a very limited model selection, but he has a wider range of options. He has both the ultimate roadblock in the cheap-as-dirt Steelheads, as well as access to massed fire from Long Gunner infantry, and the sneaky, deadly, Idrian Skirmishers. Some (Protectorate) people will tell you that Idrians aren't worth their points anymore. The Protectorate does not have Snipe. 14" military rifles against their prey with CRA and the Assault and Battery order is just wrong. Magnus can run a lot of 'jacks now that they gave him Resourceful. Upkeeps on his battlegroup are free. Just pop Iron Aggrression and Temper Metal up on a pair of 'jacks and forget about it. You'll still have 6 focus next turn. This makes it easy to upkeep Snipe on the Idrians, and you might as well Blur Mags, since he's in his battlegroup.

    Then there's the Renegades. These used to be the stars of the Agenda, but I honestly don't use two anymore. They are too expensive, and people got wise to the threat range of the Obliterator long ago. You can snipe them and try to catch someone, but you're probably better off using the Obliterator to clear a path and then mow things down with Long Gunner/Idrian gunlines.

    Magnus' weakness is that he has little to handle heavy 'jacks with, so he needs to incapacitate or avoid them. Nomads are good, but you need 2:1 odds to pull it off. An Iron Aggression Mangler puts out good damage, but is outclassed by the main heavies of other factions. Steelheads can hut one with a CMA charge, but again, you need to finish the job. He's also limited to a very small selection of the excellent solos available to mercenaries.

    I've actually never played Epic Magnus, so I can't say anything about him, other than he is a troop 'caster rather than a battlegroup 'caster.


    Gorten, Durgan, and Magnus can all be played effectively in Four Star and/or Highborn lists as well if you really want to get some more varied models involved.

  3. #3
    Angelust
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    I play both, and I'd say pMagnus is very easy to learn to play with.

    Basically take at least 3-4 jacks, cast your upkeeps, and then go smash some face.

    Iron Aggression on a Mangler, Tempered Metal on a Nomad or something, Snipe juggled onto Long-gunners/Croes/Nyss/Mule, etc, and Blur on either himself or a Renegade or something.

    That leaves you to use Magnus as a beatstick, or arc some spells through his renegade.

    It's pretty easy for the most part. The trickiest part is utilizing knockdowns to their full advantage so you can clear LOS for other ranged elements. Otherwise, the focus kind of allocates itself most rounds.


    Dwarves on the other hand can take a lot more skill to play, simply because you're always strapped for focus, always outmaneuvered, and can find it very frustrating if you play against an army that simply will not engage you. For instance, playing against a strong ranged opponent can often pick off half of your models before they get the charge off on your battered remnants. It takes a pretty careful balance of dwarven and non-dwarven units to get the most out of it, and even then, they're still usually at a big handicap because of their speed and low focus.

    I'd generally suggest you play 4 star and get the best of the mercenary lineup.

    Good luck!

  4. #4
    Alekzander
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    I like the sound of the Four Star. It's a shame that I would lose ascess to Idrians no? Or if I field Magnus, even in the Four Star I get to play Idrians?

  5. #5
    Koyote
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    Four Star can't play Idrians, but they can play Nyss (Nyss are actually considered much better). Four Star also gets access to the 2 'jack repair solos (Meg and Thor) which helps because Magnus loves 'jacks.

    The Idrians are Contract specific, not caster, so they can only be fielded in Magnus's Agenda.

  6. #6
    Alekzander
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    Got it.

    Any recommendations to what I buy after the Magnus Battlebox?

    Keep in mind, I am trying to build a Four Star Syndicate.

    I would like to avoid making the list -too- 'jack centric.

    I am aware most people recomend getting a second Renegade. Is this a good plan?

  7. #7
    Koyote
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    So you're going to stick with Magnus? Frankly I find Searforge (with Gorten) a little more forgiving on beginners.

    After you get Magnus battle box, you could pick up a Vangard, 10 Nyss hunters, and any solo thats 2 points and will work for the Four Star (Kell, Orin, Gorman, etc). You'd have to drop the Talon and you have a very solid 25 pt army. Cast Blur on Magnus, Iron Aggression on the Mangler, Temper Metal on the Vangard, and Snipe on the Nyss...and then have fun!!!

    *edit* The Renegade is a very very good 'jack, but it is also very expensive point wise. It's actually better to hold off having 2 until you get familiar with how Magnus works and how evil the Renegade can be.
    Last edited by Koyote; 11-28-2009 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #8
    maxxev
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    Having played against both Magnuses and beaten him every time with Gorten, I'd say Searforge... lol, but then it's really all down to the choices you make...

    Don't forget that you can use Gorten in 4* as well, so you could play both at different times (or in larger games both together even).

    Gorten I find very forgiving because his armour 19 means that if you miss seeing an attack coming he may well just survive it anyway, where as Mags wont survive an assassination run at all.

    However if your going for Mags, get the Battle box (if you can still find it, it's out of production) drop the Talon and pic up either a vanguard or a Bokur to give MAgs more survivability (shield guard), A Nomad is a great cheap jack to add to your beatstick potential. Steelhead Halberdiers are dirt cheap and excellent fodder whilst still being useful in combat and Nyss are brilliant shots and also pack a punch due to weapon master.

    However taking 4* means you'd loose access to the Horgenhold forge guard and there is no heavier hitting Merc unit. To counter this however you do get access to Kayzyz (SP?) assasins which rock, ESPECIALLY with Gorten protecting them from blast damage (solid ground).

    Either way (Mags or Gorten) good luck.

  9. #9
    Alekzander
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxxev View Post
    Having played against both Magnuses and beaten him every time with Gorten, I'd say Searforge... lol, but then it's really all down to the choices you make...

    Don't forget that you can use Gorten in 4* as well, so you could play both at different times (or in larger games both together even).

    Gorten I find very forgiving because his armour 19 means that if you miss seeing an attack coming he may well just survive it anyway, where as Mags wont survive an assassination run at all.

    However if your going for Mags, get the Battle box (if you can still find it, it's out of production) drop the Talon and pic up either a vanguard or a Bokur to give MAgs more survivability (shield guard), A Nomad is a great cheap jack to add to your beatstick potential. Steelhead Halberdiers are dirt cheap and excellent fodder whilst still being useful in combat and Nyss are brilliant shots and also pack a punch due to weapon master.

    However taking 4* means you'd loose access to the Horgenhold forge guard and there is no heavier hitting Merc unit. To counter this however you do get access to Kayzyz (SP?) assasins which rock, ESPECIALLY with Gorten protecting them from blast damage (solid ground).

    Either way (Mags or Gorten) good luck.
    One of the reasons I am going with Magnus instead of Gorten is that his Battlebox is out of production, yet I found a place that still has it. I am a collector nut, so when I heard that maybe we may never see this box again, I decided to pick it up. My second Warcaster will probably be Gorten, I intend getting his Battlebox when I decide to expand to 100 points.

    So Drop the Talon and get a Vanguard and a Bokur? I like the sound of that.

  10. #10
    Koyote
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    It all depends on your play style. Magnus is very flexable and can run a good melee army, ranged army, or a balanced army. He also can be used to do some spell slinging and sneaky (actually not so sneaky. Most people know his tricks, its just trying to stop it...) assasination. The rules for Warhammer, thanks to Mk. II, is balanced enough that you can really play what you want and not go wrong. What way do you want to play Magnus?

  11. #11
    relasine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alekzander View Post
    One of the reasons I am going with Magnus instead of Gorten is that his Battlebox is out of production, yet I found a place that still has it. I am a collector nut, so when I heard that maybe we may never see this box again, I decided to pick it up. My second Warcaster will probably be Gorten, I intend getting his Battlebox when I decide to expand to 100 points.

    So Drop the Talon and get a Vanguard and a Bokur? I like the sound of that.
    Both Battleboxes are actually out of production now; it's really a matter of simply finding one of the remaining starters that are still on the shelf...

    For a beginner Magnus list, I'd recommend building around the drop-and-pop. It's a simple strategy that's not hard to wrap your head around. A pair of Renegades is good to have for this very reason, so I'd probably purchase a second to replace your Talon. After this, fill with ranged loveliness: Nyss Hunters, Mules, Mariners, Cutthroats, Trenchers/Long Gunners/Idrians (if you're playing with the Agenda), and add in some Steelheads for some melee balance.

  12. #12
    DevonV
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alekzander View Post
    One of the reasons I am going with Magnus instead of Gorten is that his Battlebox is out of production, yet I found a place that still has it. I am a collector nut, so when I heard that maybe we may never see this box again, I decided to pick it up. My second Warcaster will probably be Gorten, I intend getting his Battlebox when I decide to expand to 100 points.

    So Drop the Talon and get a Vanguard and a Bokur? I like the sound of that.
    Everything in both boxes is available separately, so the only point in getting them would be for the box itself. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I wouldn't want you to think that any models were going out of production)


    The Talon is hard to use effectively compared to what you can replace it with. The Bokur is a point less and the Vanguard only a point more, and both are more useful to Magnus.

  13. #13
    Sabin
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    Four star are much easier to play with to begin with and certain models in the battlebox (the talon to be specific) don't see much playtime.

  14. #14
    Annihilator Katkiller 5's Avatar
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    Picking up a solid ranged unit to utilize snipe (Nyss, Croe's, even high shields) is also somethin' I'd recommend with Magnus. Either that or a Mule, depending on witch ya like better really.

  15. #15
    Galleon
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    After you get the battlebox id go for something like

    Magnus +6
    -reneagde -6
    -renagade -6
    -mangler - 8
    trenchers - 11

    25 points. Iron agression on mangler , temper metal on renegade 1 , blur on mag or other renegade and snipe on trenchers. This 25 pt list is preaty balanced between range , melee , spell threat and survivability. trenchers can drop smoke to block LoS to your army or use a 14 inch CRA and have assault . Mangler can clear infantry or a jack with some assistance. Renegades can assassinate a caster from 19 inchs out or 23 inchs if you rotate snipes and are a ok melee choise that also have arc nodes. Magnus himself can make jacks stationary with spells , AoE or just sit there giving out focus. Hes also a solid melee.

  16. #16
    Sabin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katkiller 5 View Post
    Picking up a solid ranged unit to utilize snipe (Nyss, Croe's, even high shields) is also somethin' I'd recommend with Magnus. Either that or a Mule, depending on witch ya like better really.

    I wouldn't start with Croes, they are a bit specialised, Nyss hunters are generally your best bet, or Idrians if you want to run Agenda.

  17. #17
    stray_bullett
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    I would start with magnus, after having 2 games with my new dwarves I dont think Ive ever been that frustrated running an army.

  18. #18
    Sabin
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    Dwarves are better Mk2, previously they suffered from poor units. They still tend to work better 4* then searforge most of the time, Dougal is Durgen's best friend, Durgen also loves Reinholdt and Aiyana (harm is the equivilent of +4 weapon power for blast damage)

  19. #19
    Annihilator Katkiller 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabin View Post
    I wouldn't start with Croes, they are a bit specialised, Nyss hunters are generally your best bet, or Idrians if you want to run Agenda.
    If you're gonna run agenda I'd say Long Gunners. Benefit massively from snipe and do a very solid job of softening up a heavy warjack so that a Mangler can finish the job.

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