question on rime

[zpavlov]

If an enemy model attacks a winter troll, fails to kill it, then kills it with a second attack, does the model become stationary?

[Primus]

Yes, it would.

[ccjazz38]

If an enemy model attacks a winter troll, fails to kill it, then kills it with a second attack, does the model become stationary?

The way I am reading the rule for Rime...there should be no second attack! Yes it says "after the attacker's activation, but Rime works after "A" melee hit which would end the enemy activation after the first hit! (unless he takes the winter troll out and/or has cold immunity)

[Primus]

Rime - If this model is hit by a melee attack, the attacking model becomes stationary for one round at the end of the attacking modelʼs activation unless the attacking model has Immunity: Cold ICON or this model was destroyed or removed from play by the attack.

Emphasis mine. If a unit has multiple attacks, its activation does not end until after those attacks are used up. Rime specifically says "at the end of the attacking model's activation", not "when hit by an enemy attack" or "when damaged by an enemy attack".

[ccjazz38]

Emphasis mine. If a unit has multiple attacks, its activation does not end until after those attacks are used up. Rime specifically says "at the end of the attacking model's activation", not "when hit by an enemy attack" or "when damaged by an enemy attack".

I will give you a copy and paste:.....

(Rime - If this model is hit by a melee attack, the attacking model becomes stationary for one round at the end of the attacking modelʼs activation unless the attacking model has Immunity: Cold ICON or this model was destroyed or removed from play by
the attack.)

If model is hit by "A" melee attack! The attacking model's activation (that attack) ends because it is now stationary.

If it was the other way around, there would not be much of a difference from it's animus

[Primus]

You need to re-read the timing rules on page 55. The attacking model's activation does not end until all of its action (step 9) is done. Rime does not interrupt this. The turn sequence looks like this, and we'll assume for argument's sake that the movement part of the unit's activation is done.

Action segment starts ->
First initial attack ->
Hit ->
Damage does not kill Winter Troll ->
Rime's conditions are met and the unit will be made stationary at the end of its activation.

Now, if the model has only one attack available, then we move to Step 10 and resolve any end-of-action and end-of-combat action effects. That ends the model's activation, and Rime kicks in and makes it stationary.

If the model has more initial attacks, or can buy attacks via various means, or can cast spells or do a number of the other things we can do now mid-activation, we are still in Step 9 of the timing chart. Rime's firing off does not change this.

Timing is key, and there's been a lot of changes in MkII regarding it.

[ccjazz38]

You need to re-read the timing rules on page 55. The attacking model's activation does not end until all of its action (step 9) is done. Rime does not interrupt this. The turn sequence looks like this, and we'll assume for argument's sake that the movement part of the unit's activation is done.

Action segment starts ->
First initial attack ->
Hit ->
Damage does not kill Winter Troll ->
Rime's conditions are met and the unit will be made stationary at the end of its activation.

Now, if the model has only one attack available, then we move to Step 10 and resolve any end-of-action and end-of-combat action effects. That ends the model's activation, and Rime kicks in and makes it stationary.

If the model has more initial attacks, or can buy attacks via various means, or can cast spells or do a number of the other things we can do now mid-activation, we are still in Step 9 of the timing chart. Rime's firing off does not change this.

Timing is key, and there's been a lot of changes in MkII regarding it.

I can kind of see what you are saying...still not sure that I am not correct either.... I think PP needs to reword Rime a little...either say (one or more) to match your argument (get rid of "A melee attack") or take out (end of the attacking modelʼs activation) to match my argument.

"A" attack and "end of attack model's activation" has different meanings in my opinion!

[Primus]

"A" attack and "end of attack model's activation" has different meanings in my opinion!

Our opinions don't change what's specifically outlined in the rules.

Timing received large changes in the WM Field Test, and the new version does take some getting used to. Things like being able to complete the movement portion of a charge, then cast spells or use abilities prior to doing the charge attack, are radically different than in MkI. So no worries about being confused about MkII timing issues.

[ccjazz38]

Our opinions don't change what's specifically outlined in the rules.

Timing received large changes in the WM Field Test, and the new version does take some getting used to. Things like being able to complete the movement portion of a charge, then cast spells or use abilities prior to doing the charge attack, are radically different than in MkI. So no worries about being confused about MkII timing issues.

So the only difference (besides letting you warlock cast it) between rime and freezer animus is.... the cost of fury? I see no point using rime anymore if you will get the same effect at a wider range with freezer. Agree or no?

[Primus]

Rime is inherent and costs no Fury to activate. It also requires the Winter Troll to be hit by a melee attack. Freezer puts up a 2" stationary-inducing field on any friendly model you want.

I'd be using Freezer to blunt advances and stop up charge lanes when needed.

[ccjazz38]

Rime is inherent and costs no Fury to activate. It also requires the Winter Troll to be hit by a melee attack. Freezer puts up a 2" stationary-inducing field on any friendly model you want.

I'd be using Freezer to blunt advances and stop up charge lanes when needed.

Ok! The strategy we can agree on!