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  1. #1
    Destroyer of Worlds Joasht's Avatar
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    Default Uses of the Manticore and Hydra?

    I have the heavy kit with me and am deciding if I should go through the hassle of magnetizing it instead of just hard-building it as a Phoenix. Frankly I cannot think of a list is put the Manticore/Hydra in over a Vyre jack.

    Thoughts? Thanks!

  2. #2
    Conqueror shady's Avatar
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    I know its not a fav of people however im a huge fan of the hydra. I like to run two hydra and a Phoenix with P Vyors and Raven it allways works out well cheers

  3. #3
    Conqueror Oulak's Avatar
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    I say magnetize it for no other reason to try them out for yourself. I still think the Manticore is a great 'jack, but mine is only magnetized to be that or a Discordia, so I (up until now, secretly,) suffer Hydra-envy.

  4. #4
    Conqueror Mrninjaman's Avatar
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    I started Ret over the summer and had the same dilemma I decided to magnetize my jacks. However yesterday I just ordered my second Shyeel Kit and plan on making a phoenix. The Phoenix is just too good, I have played used the manticore once, and never the hydra. So for me I wish I had just built a Phoenix from the get go. Now keep in mind I'm not saying the hydra and manticore are bad but that if you only have one heavy kit you are probably going to run a Phoenix 90% of the time anyways.

    FYI I usually Run Rahn, Kae or Ossy so they tend to favor either having the Arcnode or in Ossy's case I just run to Vyre jacks.

  5. #5
    Destroyer of Worlds Pixl's Avatar
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    I actually prefer the manticore or hydra before the phoenix. One got sick range (with Ravyn) and one can shoot 3 shots (through stuff with Kaelyssa).
    There should be something like a cool picture here or a quote about something funny that has been said, but I am lazy -Pixl

  6. #6
    Annihilator Zekefreed's Avatar
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    I Personally like the manticore. It's got a pretty great gun, ROF 3 power 12, has won me many a games on ravyn's feat turn especially. With Ossy i'm sure it would do the same. the cannon also has covering fire. 2 power 15 open fist, that can get up to pow 20 realistically. pretty great. Fully loaded, last week I killed a Carniveon with only the Manticore. I think this is frankly a great jack, it's just tough finding a spot for him. Though in most high point games I spring for this guy immediately being only 8 pts.

  7. #7
    Combatant
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    Manticore is great toolbox jack and the hardest hitter in Ret. I had a fun time running Vyros T4 with 4xManticore. Didnt think I had enough covering fire so next time I will use 5 of them! Stops alot of infantry lists and is very nice in scenario play.

  8. #8
    Destroyer of Worlds Kuwanger23's Avatar
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    One Manticore can protect itself or another heavy from being charged by infantry. Just place the covering fire just a bit ahead of your base. Now the only thing than can get to you is another heavy or multiwound. I was actually thinking of putting one with Garreth. Giving him covering fire allows him to be more aggressive. Now as long as your opponent doesn't ignore stealth you now have protection vs single wound infantry and shooting.
    Last edited by Kuwanger23; 11-20-2012 at 02:23 AM.
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  9. #9
    Destroyer of Worlds Murkhadh's Avatar
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    I like the manticore but since the vyre jacks it has been making less and less of my lists

    Disco, Phoenix and the Banshee are the top 3 jacks now.
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  10. #10
    Destroyer of Worlds joelker41's Avatar
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    I like the Manticore overall, rarely disappoints when he is in a list, but I can very rarely fit them in. Bit of a quandary. Hyperion replaced my double Manticore Ravyn concept I had been playtesting. I'm not that mad about it though.

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  11. #11
    Annihilator Tucker's Avatar
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    I rather like the Hydra with Kaelyssa. It tends to be very focus-efficient, and the gun is good with Phantom Hunter.

    The Manticore is a funny jack. As others have said it's a perfectly good jack and has a good toolbox of abilities; the trouble is finding room for it in your lists because that toolbox doesn't give it a clear role.

    Here are the best things about the Manticore:

    1) It can be focus-efficient. It only needs one focus to deliver a boosted combo-strike and ruin someone's day. And it doesn't need any focus at all to lay down covering fire.

    2) It's cheap, and works well in pairs. Two Manticores is a great melee threat, and two covering fire templates stops enemy infantry cold.

    3) Two open fists and a high strength make it really good at power attacks. Two-handed throws are obviously great, and I've come to love weapon locks recently.

    Overall it's a good jack and it's worth taking two of them, if you can build the right list around them.

  12. #12
    Conqueror lorenlord's Avatar
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    I've always been a fan of the Hydra. give it 3 focus Turn 1, put snipe on it, and you've got a RNG 19" POW 15 shot, and It keeps any focus it doesnt use. I was using it exclusively in my Ravyn list with success, until I got a banshee.

  13. #13
    Destroyer of Worlds DesertSpiral's Avatar
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    covering fire actually completely protects any heavy from non reach infantry if you centre it. the 1.5" radius > 25mm base + 0.5" melee range.
    "No flaws when you're pretending!"

  14. #14
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    The main problem with these two 'jacks is that they are Mat 6 Rat 5, so while in theory you can shoot three hand cannon shots with the Manticore, in practice you will only be doing that if he gets a chance to aim. Similarly with the Hydra, you might think that it's mega focus-efficient but the truth is that you will often be boosting to hit and damage with it anyway so it will still be eating two focus per round. Ravyn's Snipe is usually in high demand so I don't know if that is really a good way to fix the problem. Her feat helps alot, though.

    Still, the Manticore is quite useful all around and the Hydra functions well with certain casters (Ravyn, eVyros, possibly Ossyan with Chronomancer up ect.). I've found covering fire to be extremely annoying for melee infantry to deal with.

  15. #15
    Annihilator Ralphus's Avatar
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    I am not petitioning for eRavyn to have Guided Fire.

    And by not, I mean I started weeks ago.

  16. #16
    Conqueror Arasaka's Avatar
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    Between the Manticore's FOC-hungriness and the fact that one 3" covering fire template is generally insufficient, I find myself wishing it were a Cyclone instead.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arasaka View Post
    Between the Manticore's FOC-hungriness and the fact that one 3" covering fire template is generally insufficient, I find myself wishing it were a Cyclone instead.
    This is true, I've often wished we had access to the Cyclone. But then again, the Manticore is a ton more versatile than the Cyclone and it pays for it by being less of an infantry killer.

  18. #18
    Destroyer of Worlds darisus's Avatar
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    Call me razy but i like using the hydra and a AFG in my ossy list. You an just sit back let your infantry screen things and pop long range aimed shots from the AFG and hydra at pretty decent pow. You can put down cygnar havies pretty easy if you roll well on shots from the AFG and that boosted pow 15 from the hydra does pretty well at 17" range.

    Some people laugh about when i put them both down like that for the list but they rarely dissappoint me and often suprise some. It is alot of points but since they really don't have to move after turn 1, you can really make one arcanist keep them both up pretty well from any incidental shooting damage they may take and as i have found let my infantry do the heavy lifting.

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  19. #19

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    Manticore... It is 8 points and delivers Pow 20 attacks to heavy armor'd warbeast that MHSF don't get a bonus against... Think of it at worst as another Dawnguard Sentinel unit that you buy with Warjack points. Covering fire is just amazing, lets you deploy and use your infantry on one side of the table, and fill path ways with magical death bullets...

    While I have been desperately trying to fit him into Kaelyssa, as she can phantom hunter him for three shots that ignore LOS, Rift some difficult terrain and covering fire the gaps, and make enemy warcjacks stationary for a nice two handed throw to the enemy warcaster, or knocking it down for some backlash goodness.

    As for Rayvn, I haven't got a chance to play with the Hyperion, but I like to think of the Manticore as a two point Solo that either hangs out protecting things from getting charged while everyone whittles the enemy infantry away...

    Hydra? Eh... Your boosting to hit your aiming, but double Arcanist can keep it running from all but concentrated fire but it reminds me of a Ghost Sniper with the high power shot, taking out a solo a turn or presenting the enemy warcaster with a zone to not enter if you are running either Eiryss. Rayvn will make the zone suddenly larger and make it actually hit reliably by aiming with +4" range, and boosted hits. Kaelyssa will simply make it a hard zone that their non stealthed warcaster does not enter...

    Pvyros can simply turn the hydra into a super laser on his feat turn, but I would think after getting zapped by our low orbit Ion Cannon, they will simply take it out first next time. So Manticore is never useless like his bigger brother the Phoenix as worst case you can simply covering fire and deny charges, jamming, or space.

    If you can screen the Hydra from your opponent's army, with Arcanist back up, it can be a super laser sniper rifle. Otherwise you will be a saaad Panda. If you don't need an Arc Node you can spare the two points for Phoenix get a Manticore. If you can two of them does do an awesome of shutting off entire flanks with double covering fire (3" then leave a smaller then 25mm gap, then another 3").

  20. #20
    Destroyer of Worlds joelker41's Avatar
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    My problem with Manticores is I always find two is necessary if your playing 1. One 3" covering fire is a lot cooler when you can make a 7" wall with a second one by making it roughly an inch away from the other one.

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  21. #21
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    I am a big fan of the hydra. People act as though it can't handle its own. I don't get why.
    I run mine with Kaelyssa and Ossyan.
    Kae makes it a denial zone for enemy casters that's pretty reasonablely sized.
    Ossyan I also use it with the AFG as a dump 3 focus off and protect the AFG as a giant laser cannon

  22. #22
    Destroyer of Worlds Kallas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkfire View Post
    Pvyros can simply turn the hydra into a super laser on his feat turn,
    Just to clarify, you know that Vyros1's feat allocates and thus cannot exceed 3 focus on the Hydra because of the feat, right?

    Because it sounds like you're saying you can just stack up the focus. Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.
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  23. #23
    Conqueror lorenlord's Avatar
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    I like the Hydra. The gun is nice, the focus battery and perks are nice, and I love the Chain attack for two-handed throws againast anything. Add A+H and Concentrated Power from an arcanist, you'll do some decent damage before your throw. Just my 2 cents

  24. #24
    Conqueror Oulak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenlord View Post
    I like the Hydra... Add A+H and Concentrated Power from an arcanist, you'll do some decent damage before your throw. Just my 2 cents
    It is a 5-point additional investment, but bringing the Hydra's effective P+S to 18 goes a long way. What I really love about this is that with a successful chain attack of a headbutt, a fully allocated Hydra (3 focus) can auto-hit those last bought attacks. If the chain attack misses, you still purchase attacks with those focus, they're just not auto-hits.

    Granted, it's probably not the most optimal use of A+H, but it does go a long way towards making the Hydra a fighty jack.
    Last edited by Oulak; 11-24-2012 at 11:56 PM.

  25. #25
    Destroyer of Worlds Snipafist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darisus View Post
    Call me razy
    You're razy!

    (sorry, I couldn't resist)
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  26. #26
    Destroyer of Worlds darisus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipafist View Post
    You're razy!

    (sorry, I couldn't resist)
    busted "c" key ftw. Really have to punch it to get it to work!

    Originally Posted by PPS_Dougseacat
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  27. #27
    Destroyer of Worlds Delta57Dash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darisus View Post
    busted "c" key ftw. Really have to punch it to get it to work!
    ... like this?



    Also, sticking a Hydra in the middle of your MHSF with Kaelyssa is an absolutely hilarious way to dare them to fire AOE's at you. Discordia's probably better though.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallas View Post
    Just to clarify, you know that Vyros1's feat allocates and thus cannot exceed 3 focus on the Hydra because of the feat, right?

    Because it sounds like you're saying you can just stack up the focus. Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.
    Sorry, I forgot that it said allocate, wishful thinking at work... *Sighs longingly*

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