Lord Toruk and his offspring. . .

[GunMageinTraining]

Up until he built his secret super empire. I think with Pyro's stone (providing it wasn't majorly flawed) he's probably sitting at about equal to any of his other brothers, if he assumed full draconic form. The shards for the warlocks/Typhon are rather small by comparison and he just got a whole additional athnac to play with.

[alchahest]

I think you're putting too match stocks in everblight intelligence score.
Yes he is smart, but breaking the athanc weakened him overall.
Everblight is like the nerd son of toruk. Kind of failing evil genius. The one that all the other kids used to slap around

and yet which of daddy toruk's kids has their own faction?

[Loveless]

Yes he is smart, but breaking the athanc weakened him overall.

Er...not really.

The thing with a general athanc is that it grows into new dragons when it breaks. This is why splitting the athanc is typically a bad idea.

However, thanks to Everblight's resources and tools, he can take shards of his athanc without them growing into new dragons.

This provides him with:
1) More points of attack - far more individuals to send out blighted draconic goodness than a single dragon would have.
2) Security - as long as a single piece of his athanc remains, he remains. From what I recall, this is part of the reason Absylonia was left behind during the assault on Pyromalfic (the other part being that she can create spawn faster than her teammates).

True, Everblight doesn't have his body - but he seems to have something better - an army of bodies that moves at his command - with multiple heads (his warlocks) from which he can observe far more than other "leaders" of forces.

Everblight has a constant live stream from his minions. It makes him, in my opinion, more impressive than his brothers and father.

If anything, his huge ego and general cockyness just make him cute. Aww, look at the little Everblight! *pinches Everblight's cheeks*

[yankeefan]

If anything, his huge ego and general cockyness just make him cute. Aww, look at the little Everblight! *pinches Everblight's cheeks*

lol.

lets not underestimate what EB did either. Sure pyro had an issue but he was still alive so he wasnt exactly weak either. What EB did by eating pyro was a kick in the junk for the DA they are "working together" to not get eaten and are still being eaten. this could be very detrimental to the others knock em off the high horse.

[Chaosblack]

However, thanks to Everblight's resources and tools, he can take shards of his athanc without them growing into new dragons.

And with the splitting this also supply him the ability to loss many parts of the athac by the death of his minions.

So the questions are:

1. Does splitting the athanc reduce the power of the main athanc?
2. What happens to the athnc shards in dead minions?

In my opinion since bigger athanc = more power. Smaller one mean less power.
I think that the next book will tell us how it goes when everblight face the dragon kruger meet (forgot the name).

[skrulnik]

I think you're putting too match stocks in everblight intelligence score.
Yes he is smart, but breaking the athanc weakened him overall.
Everblight is like the nerd son of toruk. Kind of failing evil genius. The one that all the other kids used to slap around

So he is like Scott Evil?

[alchahest]

And with the splitting this also supply him the ability to loss many parts of the athac by the death of his minions.

So the questions are:

1. Does splitting the athanc reduce the power of the main athanc?
2. What happens to the athnc shards in dead minions?

In my opinion since bigger athanc = more power. Smaller one mean less power.
I think that the next book will tell us how it goes when everblight face the dragon kruger meet (forgot the name).

well, the warlocks only get tiny shards of it. and worrying about dwindling athanc supply is moot, now. he's got an entire new athanc's worth of power to draw on (see Typhon for how much fun the new athanc can be)

[magi]

And with the splitting this also supply him the ability to loss many parts of the athac by the death of his minions.

So the questions are:

1. Does splitting the athanc reduce the power of the main athanc?
2. What happens to the athnc shards in dead minions?

In my opinion since bigger athanc = more power. Smaller one mean less power.
I think that the next book will tell us how it goes when everblight face the dragon kruger meet (forgot the name).

1) Normally, yes, due to the new athanc becoming it's own sentience. In everblight's case, the athanc remains a part of him, so his power is not reduced.

2) The shard remains a part of everblight. I imagine he'd probably use it to call out to someone near by, and corrupt them with the blight emanating from it. From their he'd either have them force it into themselves and become a new warlock, or have them return it to it's rightful owner.

[PitLord]

Yeah the thing about Warlock minions is that inside them is still a piece of anthac. No one, has ever managed to destroy one of those. So unless the warlock is eaten by a dragon the shard will be around to temp others, or be recovered.

Even if you use a walock as a pawn, let her (so far all female) get eaten by another dragon, as long as you win the overall war and consume that dragon, you would be getting the piece back (sooner or later). Though here I am really thinking more short term. Had Rhyas for example mistimed her jump and jumped right down Pyromalfics gullet, it sucks for her, but assuming the spawn eventually wear old Pyro down anyway Everblight gets the shard back when he eats Pryo's anthanc.

There are two real issues with this. One it is possible that while consuming a shard the other dragon would be able to discern the location/nature of the other shards. Everblight seemed to get at least glimpses of Pyromalfics mind during this process. Two presumably Thagrosh with the main anthranc is much easier prey than an actual dragon (anthanc! now in bight sized packaging). Though up to this point that has been mitigated by the following: EB himself was not much of a match for other dragons apparently and no other dragons are looking for an anthanc in a heavily blighted ogrun thing.

It is debatable weather EB should he form his body now could defend himself against his siblings. Certainly Thagrosh at times seems to realize that his body cannot do what it is presently doing forever. Could be his mind is subsumed into EB and his body actually becomes a dragon. Could be he is pertty much just oblitereated and a fledgling dragon hatches from him like an egg.

[AluminumFalcon]

lol.

lets not underestimate what EB did either. Sure pyro had an issue but he was still alive so he wasnt exactly weak either. What EB did by eating pyro was a kick in the junk for the DA they are "working together" to not get eaten and are still being eaten. this could be very detrimental to the others knock em off the high horse.

The dragon alliance wasn't working together when Everblight consumed Pyromalfics anthanc. They didn't even know Everblight was kicking around with his own army until after that had happened. That is what Kreuger went to tell Blighterghast.

[GunMageinTraining]

I'm curious what would happen if EB decided to cut his athnac up into like 3 large chunks and build 3 bodies simultaneously, or 2 and leave Thagy as is.

You think a dragon could build multiple bodies? Seems like's it's almost a natural process of the athnac that has to be restrained rather than something the dragon wills.

[Swift2568]

That sounds essentially like what Lord Turok did. I would suspect that EB would then lose control over the other two chunks and we'd have more dragons.

[magi]

That sounds essentially like what Lord Turok did. I would suspect that EB would then lose control over the other two chunks and we'd have more dragons.

It was a tricky thing for Everblight to build Typhon.

Just a thought though: What if Everblight has a trick up his sleeve to preserve himself in the face of the other dragons' war against him? What if he's learned from his construction of Typhon, and decides to make a false dragon with a shard of his athanc? He can set this 'false Everblight' against the other dragons, and purposely lose. One of the dragons (knowing Cryx, probably Toruk) consumes the shard of his total athanc, and Everblight makes a good show of 'dying'. And then he laughs maniacally and starts hunting another dragon.

[W0lf]

Basically Everblight is the coolest Dragon.

[AluminumFalcon]

It was a tricky thing for Everblight to build Typhon.

Just a thought though: What if Everblight has a trick up his sleeve to preserve himself in the face of the other dragons' war against him? What if he's learned from his construction of Typhon, and decides to make a false dragon with a shard of his athanc? He can set this 'false Everblight' against the other dragons, and purposely lose. One of the dragons (knowing Cryx, probably Toruk) consumes the shard of his total athanc, and Everblight makes a good show of 'dying'. And then he laughs maniacally and starts hunting another dragon.

I would think that the dragon consuming the shard would realize that it wasn't the complete athanc. Besides, Everblight as a faction would have to disappear for awhile to make it work. I think the other dragons would get wise if the shard was consumed but Thagrosh was still around and kicking.

Also, Everblight is not the coolest dragon...

[magi]

I would think that the dragon consuming the shard would realize that it wasn't the complete athanc. Besides, Everblight as a faction would have to disappear for awhile to make it work. I think the other dragons would get wise if the shard was consumed but Thagrosh was still around and kicking.

Also, Everblight is not the coolest dragon...

Does anyone know for certain that Thagrosh is in fact Everblight? Also, if Everblight carved off a big enough chunk to make a full sized draconic version of himself, I'd guess that the other dragons might not know the difference. Especially if Everblight somehow faked the consumption of his will during the battle of the Athancs.

[Azurath]

That sounds essentially like what Lord Turok did. I would suspect that EB would then lose control over the other two chunks and we'd have more dragons.

The whole purpose of Rapture is to divide the athanc without this happening. Hence why all the warlocks aren't growing little independent dragons right now.

[AluminumFalcon]

Does anyone know for certain that Thagrosh is in fact Everblight? Also, if Everblight carved off a big enough chunk to make a full sized draconic version of himself, I'd guess that the other dragons might not know the difference. Especially if Everblight somehow faked the consumption of his will during the battle of the Athancs.

I don't think that losing the battle of "wills" is something Everblight could fake. When that battle starts, it is consume or be consumed. On top of that, cutting off a large chunk of his athanc would only serve to make his enemies stronger if it was consumed. Not only would they have lessened his athanc, consuming it would probably give them some sort of connection to the Everblight faction, negating any attempt to fake his death and giving the dragon alliance a huge advantage in their war against him.

[GunMageinTraining]

I wonder if the size of the athnac shard is proportional to the amount of 'will' he can exert. If not, he may be able to just hand deliver a shard to a dragon, having the dragon attempt to consume it, thus starting the battle of wills without the nitty/gritty of disassembling the dragons corporeal form and ripping the rock out bloodly.

Would be interesting if he could simply send a trojan horse of a meta-physical dragon virus and thus gain not only a whole new athanc, but a pre-assembled body.

[Azurath]

That's assuming the dragon being consumed has a realistic shot at winning the battle of wills. Pyromalific was more powerful than Everblight, but lost the battle of wills when he was consumed. I think there is an extreme advantage to being the one doing the consuming in such a fight. I mean, we've never heard of a dragon consuming another dragon and then losing this battle of wills. For all we know, the only reason there was a battle of wills at all is because Pyromalific was in fact more powerful than Everblight, yet was the one being consumed.

[GunMageinTraining]

I think Pyromalific lost largely due to the wound he sustained, to his athnac, that wasn't healing.

Though there may be something to be said for the vital energy that they use to create/power/run the physical bodies.

Getting yourself ripped bloody from your body may be quite taxing to a dragon, which would leave him vulnerable to consumption. That and if it is a 'battle of wills' then though Everblight was considered the weakest of dragons, physically, means nothing for his mental powers, which I'd say have been shown to be substantial.

[lastspartacus]

question is, can a dragon that 'consumes' anothers athanc, be in fact taken over itself.

[Azurath]

question is, can a dragon that 'consumes' anothers athanc, be in fact taken over itself.

That's my point. There's no evidence that this can occur. The only reason we are considering it is because Everblight ended up in this Battle of Wills, which we are assuming could have gone either way. For all we know, Everblight couldn't lose that battle at all, it was just a matter of how long it would take to eliminate Pyromalific's consciousness. Its also possible that, as I said before, the only reason there was a battle was because a weaker dragon consumed a stronger (which, so far as I'm aware, is the only time that's ever happened). Everblight certainly didn't know it was going to happen. Everyone is jumping to too many conclusions from too little information.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

In this case the more important contributing factor to the struggle was the divided nature of Everblight's athanc. This is mentioned in the narrative, if memory serves, in the context that Everblight was physically absorbing Pyromalfic's athanc while only using the portion that was within Thagrosh. While Everblight likes to boast that his mind isn't diminished by this division, the absorption process does require direct physical contact. This is the first time a defeated dragon's athanc has been consumed without the victorious dragon being bodily present with an entire athanc available for the process.

[yankeefan]

In this case the more important contributing factor to the struggle was the divided nature of Everblight's athanc. This is mentioned in the narrative, if memory serves, in the context that Everblight was physically absorbing Pyromalfic's athanc while only using the portion that was within Thagrosh. While Everblight likes to boast that his mind isn't diminished by this division, the absorption process does require direct physical contact. This is the first time a defeated dragon's athanc has been consumed without the victorious dragon being bodily present with an entire athanc available for the process.

im also going to assume this was the first time that the "weaker" dragon was doing the absorbing.(if that wrong oops)

so that could also explain to a point why the battles of wills was so drawn out(along with EB wanting to create typhon)

[Azurath]

In this case the more important contributing factor to the struggle was the divided nature of Everblight's athanc. This is mentioned in the narrative, if memory serves, in the context that Everblight was physically absorbing Pyromalfic's athanc while only using the portion that was within Thagrosh. While Everblight likes to boast that his mind isn't diminished by this division, the absorption process does require direct physical contact. This is the first time a defeated dragon's athanc has been consumed without the victorious dragon being bodily present with an entire athanc available for the process.

I actually never made the connection between the shards and Everblights struggle. I just assumed that Everblight withdrew from the shards to focus on his battle. And when you mention that this is the first time a dragon consumed an athanc without a body, is an athanc able to draw additional strength from it's body to help the absorption? Hence why such a battle of wills isn't the norm?

[PPS_Dougseacat]

Mainly because you generally need a body to kill another dragon and tear free their athanc to eat it. There has been no studies in absorption between disembodied athancs. Corvis University might be willing to offer a substantial grant to anyone willing to slay a pair of dragons and record the details of the experiment.

It's worth continuously restating just how unique and unusual Everblight's current situation happens to be. No dragon has ever attempted many of the things he is doing right now. There are no precedents or relevant lore.

[Northern Ronin]

No dragon has ever attempted many of the things he is doing right now. There are no precedents or relevant lore.

This is what makes Everblight the coolest dragon, bar none. Even Toruk didn't stop and think what would happen if he cast away the 'useless' parts of his Anthac, Everblight just sits and studies going "I wonder what happens if I funnel blight through infants. . . ." He seems to possess a great creative spark almost void in other dragons. Even Toruk seems conventional in his ways, letting his minions do the experimentation (Perhaps he can't grasp the mechanics of it, perhaps he'd rather not be bothered by it, I'd say the former has weight since they do grave rob new tech, rather then asking Toruk how to replicate it).

[GunMageinTraining]

Toruk brought the secrets of necromancy to the kingdom of Cryx, and the've perfected it into an art and science.

Everblight's done a similar thing with 'blight' and the very nature of the dragons and athancs itself. I don't think Everblight's going to have the same problems he did with Pyro's athnac if he manage to get a hold of another.

[AluminumFalcon]

I'll be shocked if he gets a hold of another athanc though. I know he is going to try, but all of the dragons are going to be watching their backs now. Plus, he can't get too strong, or he'll have to start twiddling his thumbs in the fluff like Cryx does.

[GunMageinTraining]

Well he still needs to build himself a body and that may take quite awhile.

From the greater fluff perspective, I could definitely see Everblight slowly start picking off the dragons one by one, becoming one of the only dragons left, and able to oppose Toruk, though he could also simply join the dragon compact too.

[Joroth]

I'm not so sure the alliance would have him. After Kreuger told Blighterghast what was going down, the dragons were called to assemble except for EB. I would imagine there to be an upcoming conflict with lots of dragons either trying to bully EB into knocking it off or just try and eat him and be done with the whole thing.

I'm sure things won't progress very fast in human standards, so we may not see much of any kind of draconic action. I like how Everblight seems to be the only dragon with a fast-paced agenda.

[lastspartacus]

EB surely isnt the only dragon outside the alliance.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

Actually he pretty much is.

[PG_Sobek]

Yeah, I think that all the other dragons who weren't part of the alliance are dead and gone. Hence the reason why their alliance was so important to them.

[lastspartacus]

aren't there some crazy dragons like this Chimera thing I keep hearing about? Figured he was on his own.

But the Seacat is surely right, I stand corrected! :P
I thought the timing of that alliance happened before EB began his major plot points.

"Dude, there's like this big alliance party, and you missed it! What have you been hiding under a lake for a thousand years?"

[GunMageinTraining]

Actually, yea....

Is the Chimera part of the alliance? I didn't think it was sane enough to be part, plus the Twin dragons are mentioned as being slightly crazy too.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

The Chimera doesn't really count as a dragon anymore. No one talks to it and it has no friends.

If you read p. 146 of Primal, on the right column it is mentioned that Everblight did not participate in this pact as he was still hiding and recuperating from his injuries from his last encounter with Toruk. Krueger confirms this on p. 48 of Metamorphosis when he is discussing his findings about the stolen Wurmstone with Mohsar.

[Klebert L. Hall]

Actually he pretty much is.

Okay, that's cool - they're in communication all the way over to the Suneater Mountains, and probably farther! Nifty info.
-Kle.

[yankeefan]

The Chimera doesn't really count as a dragon anymore. No one talks to it and it has no friends.

omg this might be the greatest thing doug has ever posted im so sig ing this