Warwitch Deneghra 101: Take me to school?

[Silopolis]

I keep hearing that Deneghra is SOOOOO awesome and super powerful, and I see it on paper, but I have never, NEVER won with her. Not for lack of trying. I have played her enough to say with some confidence that I've given it the ol' college try, but something is always missing. Generally, my army gets cleared off the table before Deneghra can do anything, or I miss with all her offensive spell rolls, or I Crippling Grasp the wrong unit, or I fail to time her feat properly. Compared to Asphyxious or Goreshade, she just seems Advanced to me. Everything depends on perfect timing, or the foresight to know what to Cripple, what to Parasite, and how to use her feat for its max potential.

I'm used to Trollbloods, which is a factor. If I'm depending on buffs, I can spend my first couple of turns doing buffs and then upkeep them the rest of the game. Since Denny uses debuffs, I can't cast them right away. I spend a round or two holding on to Focus because there's no targets, and then suddenly I have to unload. Since I'm trying to cast Crippling Grasp and Parasite in the same turn, there's no Focus available to boost them both, and so one misses. It doesn't help that my most typical opponent, a Cygnar player, has a tendency to turtle and destroy anything I send forward.

The thing is, I can see her power on paper. Her feat is devastating. I certainly wouldn't want my best unit/jack Crippled. Scourge + Venom murders infantry. Influence looks like tons of fun. But on the table, my brain cracks in half and I have no idea what to do and when.

So here are my main issues, and I would LOVE to have some help with these:

1. Feat timing: I keep getting caught up on thoughts like, "Only this one unit will benefit from this feat this turn," and I don't cast it, hoping for a better chance. The feat has so many uses that I get analysis paralysis. Do I pop it defensively? Do I hold out for an assassination attempt? Do I pop it early, even if just to get Crippling Grasp on a particular target?
2. Crippling Grasp: I always seem to get it on the wrong target. I Cripple a jack, and the enemy's unit charges in and breaks me. I Cripple the unit, and the jack blasts a hole through my army. Whatever. I can never seem to use it to the best effect.
3. Focus. When I play her, she is saturated with Focus in the early game and starved for it the rest of the time. I don't own Sirens, so I can't run them. Seether/Deathjack, sure, but I need to buy infantry and arc nodes.
4. Her army: They all die all over the place. When I use Asphyxious, I don't care about that as much, but with Deneghra, each part of her army seems vital to delivering a killing blow. Deneghra herself doesn't seem nearly as capable of ending the game as Asphyxious does.

Anything that can help me with those issues would be much appreciated. I'd really like to understand Deneghra and be successful with her.

Many thanks in advance!

[Tionas]

I think one of the things you're going to run into is that gun line.

if your not playing a Scenario, gun lines are going to win. there just isn't much you can do to them outside of taking a few lists.

also: What are the models your taking, generaly? there are some that work really well, and some that only work so-so.

I actualy tend not to cast Crippling Grasp a whole lot. if your going for the kill on something, parasite is just flat out better, provided you can hit.

and this is why:

Anything that you will have trouble hitting, you probably only need to hit a few times, with most of our models doing substantial damage, you can just flood them.

Anything that you will have trouble damageing, probably isn't going to be that hard to hit, which means that the added armor debuff is just that much better...

I built a pretty snazzy list a while back, that did some horrid stuff... I'll have to dig it up.

I know this post is all over everywhere,but...

She's all about the kill. not neccesarily with herself, but anything, really. and her feat is a Giant middle finger. you could (given terrain, model positioning, ect) pop it on turn 2, after charging something, and have her pretty safe..

[blakeh1]

I find Crippling Grasp is best cast the first or second turn depending on who went first (unless your facing someone that has Lamentation/Cleanse, or a way to easily remove upkeeps of course)

Typically if my opponent goes first, I will determine if I can sacrifice an arc node to Crippling Grasp followed by a Venom or casting Parasite on a second target. With running an arc node and it's range, plus your 10" deployment, you can slap it on something up to 32" away on your first turn. You'll probably lose that arc node, but getting Crippling Grasp and/or Parasite on things early helps throw a curve ball.

I find Crippling Grasp generally gives me the best results on a unit like Cavalry (they hate not being able to charge/run), or melee jacks, or melee units as it shuts down the charge/run which helps to net you the alpha strike against them.

I also tend to consider what has a special attack I might be worried about. For example if something has Thresher (*Attack) crippling grasp will shut that down.

As far as her army dying, most games with Deneghra come down to her, an arc node, and one other model to finish things. That model can be a pistol wraith waiting in the wings or something similar. She's got the tools to make just about any model in your army a finisher.

I typically find that you should have 3 arc nodes with her. One to use a fodder early on to deliver stuff, a second one for mid game, and the third for the end game. More is not bad, but you can get by with 3.

Her feat I almost always save for the turn I go for the caster kill. On rare occassions if things are not going well I will pop it in an effort to limit my losses that turn, or if i can use it to take out most of the opponents army

End game typically involves Feat, Scourge to knockdown target plus put some damage on them, then having something else finish it off. Bonus is if you can get Parasite on them the previous turn, but you could also risk not boosting Scourge if your close enough so even a deviation will catch them in the AOE, or they have a low enoguh DEF after the feat debuff that you can hit on a 5/6 or less. At that point a knocked down model at -5 ARM is a sitting duck for things like Pistol Wraiths, or even a boosted Nightwretch shot, or even just a plain old bile thrall spary (don't even have to purge)

[jonconcarne]

for me, Crippling grasp isn't something to throw on what you want to necessarily kill. I like to throw it on anything that I'm worried about demolishing my army. I'll sacrifice one of my 2-3 nodes just to keep the rest of my army safe from a big threat by throwing crippling grasp on it.

One caveat to parasite being better. If I have to kill a high defense unit, like the ATGM or something, I throw a boosted crippling grasp onto them.

The thing to remember, with pDenny, you don't have to kill their army. On her feat turn, that is one of the amazing things that you can do, but it's not required. I try and time my feat turn for one of the following things:
1) pop n drop assassination on their caster - if they leave an opening to their caster, I'll pop it in my turn before I activate the rest of my army.
2) army decimation - if they have the majority of their army within charge range of my army, or shooting range of my ranged elements.
3) protection from reprisal - if I need to advance into range for my next turn, but I'm worried about them destroying my army, I pop my feat as a defensive maneuver.

I prefer to use pDenny's feat offensively, but never forget that making them suck can be just almost as good of a defense as it is an offense.

I'll also echo Tionas' statement about gunlines. Against most armies, pDenny can swing for an amazing pop n drop assassination, but some/lots of gunlines will just tear that to shreds.

[Silopolis]

Here's a list I was noodling a bit about:

Deneghra (-5)
--Nightwretch x2 (8)
--Defiler (5)
Max Biles (8)
Max Mechanithralls (5)
--Brute Thralls x2 (2)
Withershadow Combine (5)
Necrotech + Scrap Thrall (1)
Pistol Wraith x2 (6)

The idea is to keep two arc nodes in reserve and send one of the nightwretches in as a source of Venom/Parasite/CG as needed. The Mechs are there to die on the way in (which means I could do without the Brutes, really, since all they do is die, as well). Last time I ran a Gaspy list like this, the Biles survived a Haley Chain Lightning/gunline long enough to get to the enemy front lines (and fail to kill much of anything, thanks to really good rolling on the opponent's part to shake off Corrosion). Withershadow's there to maybe get me a Seether, but to be a source of ranged damage and take advantage of any Parasited jacks. Pistol Wraiths are there for pop-n-drop with Scourge.

The issue with a list like this, that I can see, is that it requires Denny's debuffs in order to really do much of anything. Mechs and Biles can't hit anything (aside from Purge) without some DEF debuffing, which means Feat/CG. If I want to eke some effectiveness out of more than one thing, I need to time my feat and my approach so that everything that needs the help is attacking on my feat turn.

[Chad]

Feat timing: I keep getting caught up on thoughts like, "Only this one unit will benefit from this feat this turn," and I don't cast it, hoping for a better chance. The feat has so many uses that I get analysis paralysis. Do I pop it defensively? Do I hold out for an assassination attempt? Do I pop it early, even if just to get Crippling Grasp on a particular target?

Her feat is both offensive and defensive you can use it to whittle away at your opponents, or set up a kill shot, it all depends on the Denny you want to play. I usually use it to soundly thrash whatever is closest then watch the following turn be a weak hit back. The more you effect the better off you are, but it has to be weighed against what you can kill and how safe Denny is in doing so.

Crippling Grasp: I always seem to get it on the wrong target. I Cripple a jack, and the enemy's unit charges in and breaks me. I Cripple the unit, and the jack blasts a hole through my army. Whatever. I can never seem to use it to the best effect.

Well, it really depends - I prefer to have CG on whatever model unit I see as the biggest threat, particularly in melee. Use an arc node to get this on the designated unit quickly. If it's within 22" of an arc node it's usually well worth it. Cavalry often make good candidates, because they are usually the earliest big threat. For jacks it really depends on the jack.

During her feat turn, that, coupled with CG will allow you to kill literally almost anything outside of an ARM 25 model in a turn, which then allows you to bounce CG to something else (next turn of course).

Focus. When I play her, she is saturated with Focus in the early game and starved for it the rest of the time. I don't own Sirens, so I can't run them. Seether/Deathjack, sure, but I need to buy infantry and arc nodes.

Sirens are the perfect solutions, as are jacks that generate focus (seether, DJ), but if you think about it, you don't really need a lot of focus when it matters, as everything is both easier to hit and easier to damage. A nightmare is probably the best investment as it has 'prey' as well giving it extra movement and a slew of hefty attacks.

Her army: They all die all over the place. When I use Asphyxious, I don't care about that as much, but with Deneghra, each part of her army seems vital to delivering a killing blow. Deneghra herself doesn't seem nearly as capable of ending the game as Asphyxious does.
Anything that can help me with those issues would be much appreciated. I'd really like to understand Deneghra and be successful with her.

I tend to maximize her strengths, I stick with Bane Thralls over knights because they have stealth and Dark Shroud (even more ARM debuff for killing those heavies), Sirens are just fantastic. A couple of arc nodes -- usually at least one defiler for it's spray. But she can make pretty good use of almost any jack.

My question would be -- what troops do you use and why? What are you bringing them to do?

There isn't a model/unit that doesn't benefit from Denny because her primary debuff hits models where it hurts most, their speed, their DEF, their ARM and removal of special attacks. Her feat does it to an even greater degree.

I haven't even tried making use of her ability to take over models yet. I'm sure, used right, it could be pretty gnarly - particularly when used on something like the Drakhun.

[Aldarionn]

Feat timing: I keep getting caught up on thoughts like, "Only this one unit will benefit from this feat this turn," and I don't cast it, hoping for a better chance. The feat has so many uses that I get analysis paralysis. Do I pop it defensively? Do I hold out for an assassination attempt? Do I pop it early, even if just to get Crippling Grasp on a particular target?

There is really no clear cut answer to this question. Deneghra's feat is a very strong one, and it has a very broad area of effect. I play her almost strictly as an assassin though, so the answer for me is "When I can catch the caster with it and have him in range of my assassination units". Not everyone will play her this way, and its not the only viable tactic, but I usually go into a game mentally analyzing how I'm going to dismantle my opponent and assassinate his caster. I have a game plan for turn 1 and I stick to it, and I usually know when I'm going to use the feat, and to what end.

Crippling Grasp: I always seem to get it on the wrong target. I Cripple a jack, and the enemy's unit charges in and breaks me. I Cripple the unit, and the jack blasts a hole through my army. Whatever. I can never seem to use it to the best effect.

Parasite on high ARM targets, Crippling Grasp on melee infantry. Crippling Grasp is a delay spell in my experience, and I use it to neutralize one threat while I'm dealing with another. I would not bother using it on solos, but tossing it on a 'Jack while you tear apart a unit is a good use, as is the opposite.

Focus. When I play her, she is saturated with Focus in the early game and starved for it the rest of the time. I don't own Sirens, so I can't run them. Seether/Deathjack, sure, but I need to buy infantry and arc nodes.

I can tell you that Warwitch Sirens will be a good investment as soon as you can purchase them, but its not 100% necessary. I won a tournament with Deneghra long before they were released and had no real trouble with focus. Deathjack with some arcnodes is a good way to keep her sitting pretty on focus.

Deneghra is a focus hog, there is not much you can do to fix that fact, so you can really only compensate for it by taking units that are not focus reliant, or not heavily so. A Skarlock Thrall to do some of her backfield buffing (like Ghost Walk) is a good investment, as is Gorman to throw Rust Bombs on 'Jacks if you cannot afford to parasite them. The Withershadow Combine is another good unit to take as you can cast a debuff and use Admonia to upkeep it, saving you a focus point for the next round.

When dealing with focus, try to plan ahead. Be thinking of what you want to cast when your opponent is finishing their turn. Think of how many focus it will cost, and ration it out early in your turn so you know what you have available to allocate to 'Jacks to sit on for ARM. Its very important to get a good feel of when to boost a spell or not based on averages and probabilities. Usually if its her feat round you won't need to boost anything.

Her army: They all die all over the place. When I use Asphyxious, I don't care about that as much, but with Deneghra, each part of her army seems vital to delivering a killing blow. Deneghra herself doesn't seem nearly as capable of ending the game as Asphyxious does.

Thats because Deneghra is NOT as capable of ending the game herself as Asphyxious is. She is not a melee Warcaster, she is a spell slinger and she is very good at it, but she uses other models to do the dirty work.

How you will end the game largely depends on your opponents choice of caster. If its a high ARM target you might not be able to reliably assassinate in one turn, so you may consider going for the infantry. If its a high DEF low ARM caster, Deneghra will murder them with almost no trouble, so assassination is a pretty good option. Dropping Caine isn't hard, but putting down Karchev will be nearly impossible.

OK, now for some general list design advice. If you could post a list of models you own it would definitely help me suggest a list that you could actually field. From my experience, Deneghra is one of our best direct assassins. In MK I a forum poster by the name of Ranz devised a very strong assassination list that became the staple of top-tier Cryx. It involved 4-6 Bonejacks, 2 Pistol Wraiths, Gorman, a Skarlock, and then filling up on infantry. Its not as easy to get so many Bonejacks in a list in MK II, nor is it that beneficial any longer, but having 2-3 arcnodes with Deneghra is a very good idea. Gorman and a Skarlock are both great options as well, and Warwitch Sirens (as mentioned above) are a good investment just for the focus relief on Deneghra. As for infantry, I like using Bane Thralls and Tartarus with Deneghra, along with The Withershadow Combine. When almost your entire army has Stealth, it can be very frustrating for your opponent to deal with. Add the new Bane Thralls UA to the mix and you have a unit with Tough, Stealth, Dark Shroud, Weapon Master and a solo that adds to them. Give them Ghost Walk and watch them do some serious damage.

I would play something like this personally:
Warwitch Deneghra (+5)
2x nightwretch (8)
Skarlock Thrall (2)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4)
10 Bane Thralls (8)
--Bane Thrall Officer and Standard Bearer (3)
Gorman Di Wulfe (2)
2x Pistol Wraith (6)
Warwitch Siren (2)
Withershadow Combine (5)

Total 35+5

This list is FULL of options. The only models that dont have Stealth are the Skarlock Thrall, the Pistol Wraiths (who dont need it) and the Nightwretches. Pistol Wraiths are there for the assassination, Bane Thralls are there as a beatstick for infantry and 'Jacks, Tartarus is there to replenish them, and Gorman is there to protect Deneghra and the Skarlock as well as toss around Rust, Acid and Black Oil as you see fit. I included the Siren for the free focus on one of the Wretches to run, and Venom. Alternatively you could drop one Pistol Wraith and the Siren for a Defiler to get an extra Arcnode and a spray template, but it comes down to personal preference.

The basic strategy with the above list would be to pin down opposing troops with the Bane Thralls and Tartarus while moving one Bonejack up each flank with a Pistol Wraith. The Siren would advance with one of the 'Jacks to give it focus to run, and Deneghra would supply the focus for the other. Gorman, the Skarlock and Deneghra stay behind the Bane Thralls and Gorman throws a cloud effect in front of the Skarlock and Deneghra. The Withershadow Combine upkeep any buffs Deneghra casts early on and use Puppet Master on Deneghra to ensure that she hits with her abilities. If they get the chance they can pop the occasional upkeep and snipe solos with Dark Fire. Go for the assassination as soon as possible. If your opponent gets within 24" of Deneghra and your Wraiths are alive and in position, advance a bonejack within about 4" of the opposing caster, advance with Deneghra (or charge one of your own Thralls if you need extra range), pop your feat, cast Scourge through the Bonejack (which cannot miss your target due to the scatter distance), then Parasite them. If you can get Tartarus within 2" for Dark Shroud even better. Use the Pistol Wraiths to unload on the knocked down caster at -5 ARM (-7 with Dark Shroud) which should more than likely kill him.

This is not the only viable list or strategy, but its the one that I find to be the most effective when using Deneghra. You can, of course, take any bits or pieces of this advice and apply them as you see fit to your own unique play style, but I hope you find the write-up helpful.

[Blasterbonatti]

Play very aggressively. Run an arc node up first turn and let fly with crippling grasp and parasite. I usually try to crip grasp their biggest threat. Get the spd nerf in early and you can basically take some things out of the game from the get go. Take units that don't need much help surviving. Bane Thralls are AMAZING with her. (with Tartarus, naturally). Mechanithralls are ace too simply because they're so cheap, but hit as strong as a heavy jack with her debuffs on the target unit. Bloat Thralls can devastate infantry-heavy armies. I usually try to take at least 3 nodes, two for early game spell slinging and hold one back for the end game. Gorman's great for added debuffs and smoke clouds.

I usually save her feat for the assassination attempt, and it usually works. It's also nice to allow your army to redeploy in the middle of the board, don't be scared of getting her too far forward for this as if you're cautious enough she's damn hard to hit.

Judging from your list, I'm pretty sure if you swapped out the biles for banes you'd fare much better.

[Silopolis]

Currently I can't field more than minimum Bane Thralls, and my Tartarus is broken so I don't want to field him until he's fixed. I'm likely not going to be able to bolster my Banes anytime real soon, either.

My current troop options:
Mechanithralls (12 or 13, plus 2 Brutes)
Biles (10)
Bloat (1)
Pistol Wraiths (2)
Revenant Pirates (10)
Rengrave
Necrotechs (2)
Withershadow
Machine Wraith
Soulhunters (Max, I think)
Darragh Wrathe
Overlords
Gorman
...and I think that's it.

[BENDER]

Feat timing: I keep getting caught up on thoughts like, "Only this one unit will benefit from this feat this turn," and I don't cast it, hoping for a better chance. The feat has so many uses that I get analysis paralysis. Do I pop it defensively? Do I hold out for an assassination attempt? Do I pop it early, even if just to get Crippling Grasp on a particular target?

I will echo the other in saying that the feat is so flexible and wide reaching that there really is no set time to use it. But I can give a few examples of when I have used it to great success:

The obvious one is the caster assassination attempt. If its a high def, low arm caster, combine this with crippling grasp and just go wild. If its low def high arm, parasite is better.

Are you in a take and hold scenario? Usually with our superior speed we get there first but have a great deal of trouble holding ground. Pop your feat and buy yourself a turns breathing space to get into a better position or even to get the charge in the turn after.

Have you just done a massive boo boo with your estimated threat ranges? Or have the dice not been kind to you. Has the enemy caster set up its own assassination run and you see it coming? Feat defensively to limit the damage. Remeber the feat also affects the focus stat so it limits control radius and scuppers any plans your enemy caster may have. Karchev or Gorten with a 6 inch control radius is just pitiful to see. But lets just say the schadenfreude is strong in this one

Are you about to embark on an alpha strike with your whole army? Feat to get the damage bonuses and to limit payback.

Crippling Grasp: I always seem to get it on the wrong target. I Cripple a jack, and the enemy's unit charges in and breaks me. I Cripple the unit, and the jack blasts a hole through my army. Whatever. I can never seem to use it to the best effect.

I think you are looking at it from a glass half empty perspective. What if you didn't have crippling grasp? Then both the unit and the jack would be able to get you!

Once again there are no hard and fast rules with this one. Just look at the enemy army and think to yourself "Which unit would I really like to SUCK at this point in time?"

Typically first on the agenda are units with high threat ranges. Cavalry are favourites. But anything that can move really fast needs to be slowed down. For example, in a Strakov army, Beast 09 can go really fast. Not with CG on it. Karchev, if he's forgotten to bring upkeep removal can be a really cruel target for CG. He cant tow effectively and you can slow down the entire jack force that way.

Second priority would be units that are holding objectives that I am in a position to attack. Cryx infantry really need those DEF and ARM debuffs. Remember that you can use a skarlock to cast it twice in one turn.

Thrid priority would be anything that could potentially get Denny once the feat has been blown.

Focus. When I play her, she is saturated with Focus in the early game and starved for it the rest of the time. I don't own Sirens, so I can't run them. Seether/Deathjack, sure, but I need to buy infantry and arc nodes.

I have the opposite game plan. I have found that if I dont run jack heavy, I don't really need the focus until the endgame. Typically once I have got my upkeeps going, I sit on focus. Parasite and CG are usually the only caster support my army needs. I have Gorman and Skarlocks to help out. And its only if I am desperate for anti infantry that venom gets used. I run a leviathan quite regularly with deneghra and apart from the two focus I give it, and the odd focus for a running bonejack. Typically I can camp on 3 focus a turn quite comfortably.

Her army: They all die all over the place. When I use Asphyxious, I don't care about that as much, but with Deneghra, each part of her army seems vital to delivering a killing blow. Deneghra herself doesn't seem nearly as capable of ending the game as Asphyxious does.

The question really should be: "How do I preserve my units?" Asphyxious and EAsphyxious may be able to have a more direct endgame but I am thinking that you may have become too dependant on the caster to do the heavy lifting.

I have found a wave system works quite well. Keep at least one arc node and few few other ranged peices back to finish things off.

[Silopolis]

So, I took Denny out tonight against Siege. I had Denny, a Seether, a Reaper, two nodes, a Helldiver, min Mechanithralls + 1 Brute, a Pistol Wraith, a Necrotech, and the Withershadow. He had Seige, a Lancer, a Defender, a Hunter (marshalled to the Gunmage UA), min Gunmages + UA, min Swordknights, Strangewayes, 3 Stormsmiths, and the Squire. I might be misremembering.

I got owned. The Mechs died in no time. The arc node I sent up to get some debuffs started got shot once and lost its arcnode, and had to run back for repairs. My Reaper got its Helldriver shot off in one shot. I managed to get an arc node into position, pop my feat, and cast Venom through it, hitting the Hunter for 0 damage, missing Seige entirely (yes, with a Spray at FOC 7, on my feat turn), and doing about three damage to Strangewayes. I Scourged and hit the Gunmage UA and one Mage. That was the extent of my damage for the rest of the game.

My opponent killed off everything blocking his view to Deneghra, used Mage Sight, and then assassinated her while under the influence of her feat. Thanks to the Squire, his CTRL area was large enough to just touch her with Mage Sight. Even under her feat, his models were standing still and firing at their normal RATs, which all seemed to be 6 or 7.

Once again, I simply couldn't get into range to do anything AT ALL. It was ridiculous. Even using her feat, I couldn't survive enough to make it so that Parasite or Crippling Grasp would have any effect. The one unit I'd have needed Crippling Grasp for (the one that relied on SPD at all, or would ever have charged me) was the Sword Knights, and my opponent did nothing with them all game except walk them slowly backwards.

It was stupid. It keeps coming back to the fact that I can only seem to win against Cygnar if I bring the one caster I have who doesn't care if his army suvives at all. All my games are about the army getting wiped the hell out, and if my caster can't dish out the pain on his or her own, then there's no point. And Deneghra, Toruk love her, is busy tossing debuffs when Asphyxious or Skarre would be bombing the crap out of someone.

Maybe Deneghra just needs to go on the shelf for good. I'm not going to win with her, that part's increasingly clear, no matter how badly I'd love to get that point in the W column.

[Malus Prime]

Sounds like your experience was part bad luck, part poor planning.

Failing to hit lots of stuff during the feat round, as well as getting your arc node shot off in the first round and the reaper's helldriver disabled, is all bad luck.

The poor planning was model selection and overall strategy. If you were complaining about focus, why would you bring five 'jacks? Granted the Seether is efficient and most of the game, you don't need to allocate anything to the bonejacks except to run the nodes... but by the time anything is in a position to do something, you're back to square one with focus problems again. I'd trade in the Reaper and the Helldiver for more infantry so that you can devote your focus to the Seether and/or spellcasting.

As for getting your McThralls shot up the first round... what do you expect to happen with only six of them? Max it out and add a Necrosurgeon so that they have some lasting power - give your arc nodes and Seether a fighting chance to get into position.

Venom is a good weapon, but it's not really an assassination tool unless you can layer parasite on a previous round. You'd be better served throwing crippling grasp on the gun mages to get their defense down, and then spraying them with venom... or just scourge for less focus, and it doesn't really matter if you miss.

It sounds like you were playing an attrition game, but you didn't bring the tools to last it. I'd give it another shot. Courteously ask your opponent if he'd be willing to reprise the same list so you can try to reclaim your dignity and see if a few small changes make any difference.

[FederationX]

I got owned.

As Malus Prime said above, Necrosurgeon is key for giving your McThralls some lasting power. I saw that you don't own one yet, but would your opponents be ok with your proxying until you get the unit?
Here's a few quick & not so quick questions to answer honestly, and with humility.

Question one. What scenario were you playing? You mentioned that he was backing up his units and then firing again. Insist that your opponents play a scenario. Any of the SR2010 ones would have forced him to engage in melee to some extent, even if just with his Lancer & Sword Knights. That'll start giving you a shooting into melee bonus which will help a ton/ start blocking LOS to your other models.

Question two. On your feat round, what was the Withershadow Combine doing? Tremulus' Puppet Master is great for those botched rolls - like when you missed Siege.

Question three. From your battle report, it sounds like you took a shot at Seige, wiffed, got frustrated and went after the Gunmage UA. You went after Siege first, that's good. But why not start by firing off a Scourge, then more follow up attacks? DEF 5 = win! There's more advantages to knocking him down that I'll touch on later.

Question four. In an effort to survive a counter attack, how close did you get yourself? Or a better way of phrasing this, if you was a chance to assassinate him, did you expose yourself any more than you absolutely necessary? It's possible that you were trying to cover his whole army with your feat, but if you kill the caster, do you really need to catch everyone?

Quick math for you: Siege FOC 6 - 2 from the Withering = 4. 8" control area + 2" for Squire = 10" control. Siege is SPD 3 from Withering, giving him an effective 13" threat range for Mage Sight, & for his feat, Breach. pDenny's control area is 14", so it's possible to keep pDenny safe for at least one round from Siege assassinating her (himself).

Question five, AKA last question for now. If time permits, and you get a rematch, would you be willing to ask your opponent to walk you through their logic as they play? You could do this as frequently as you like - hell, even before and after each model/ unit goes. It takes a lot of time, but you'll know immediately when your opponent spots a weakness you've exposed. It could be simple positioning, going after his weaker targets, taking his bait, not concentrating your firepower enough.

It takes time, but it's a huge help when you're struggling trying to figure out a new caster/ unit/ faction. Seriously, if & your opponent have the time and patience to explain everything, you'll learn a ton from just one game. It sounds like your opponent had planned out his counter assassination before you even finished your turn. At minimum, ask your opponent what, "At what point did you see me screw up? How do you think I could I have saved it?" And then LISTEN. Yes Siege is good, but so is pDenny. He didn't win 'cause of a bad match up, it sounds like he won because he out played you, plain and simple. No shame in it, you're learning. But use the chance to learn from his experience. Don't give up!!

[Mannen]

I know its been said before but you should really consider adding the Deathjack to your list. Not only is he a solid threat in melee and difficult for the enemy to bring down, he can also act as an arc node of sorts.

I tend to use Denny's feat aggressively. Either by advancing her far upfield (behind cover of course) and then popping her feat and hopefully catching most of my opponents army, and then proceed to beat the snot out of them with my army. Or I use it when I see an early angle for an assassination. Feat+CG or Parasite followed up by a brace of Pistol Wraiths usually make for a very dead 'caster.

If someone's wondering why I cast CG or Parasite instead of of Scourge I tend to play against Menoth alot, and sofar I've never seen a single list without that accursed Covenant.

As others have stated, Crippling grasp is best used early in the game against a unit/model that I don't want to face; cavalry, MoW etc.

[GhostfaceKillah]

Take a skarlock just for a extra ghost walk. Remember it ignores free strikes and lets you move through guys.

[Aldarionn]

I totally agree with what Malus Prime and FederationX said above. It sounds like you overextended without a game plan and mixed up the order of operations, which is IMMENSELY important in Warmachine.

Before you use any offensive abilities to deal damage to an opponent, first use abilities that will make them easier to hit. Start with your feat, then cast Scourge and knock down the caster. If your Arcnode is within about 4" it will be mathematically impossible for a 3" AOE to miss a small based target. Be careful though as you can get too close and knock down your own Bonejack.

Once the caster is knocked down, it should be cake from there to stack anything else. Do a little quick math and consider which weapons/spells/abilities you intend to use to assassinate your target. Check your POW against the targets current ARM and consider that it might be wise to hit them with Parasite instead of casting an attack spell, and let the rest of your force do the work. Even Siege will be hurting when a Pistol Wraith shoots him at -5 ARM.

Remember what I said about focus. Focus efficiency is important, and you REALLY need to get in the habit of designing your lists with that in mind. When you are considering adding a 'Jack to the list, consider the following:
-How many 'Jacks do I already have?
-How many of my 'Jacks NEED focus to operate well?
-Do any of my current 'Jacks generate their own focus?
-Do I have other means of supporting a 'Jack besides my caster?
Deneghra can support one heavy (or two if one of them is Deathjack) and some arcnodes, but adding in Warwitch Sirens will ease the focus strain on her TREMENDOUSLY.

Adding in The Withershadow Combine was a good move as they can save her a focus each round by upkeeping a spell for her, and I recommend taking them in every game with her, but you need to focus your list toward one goal, and I think the above list you posted was a step in the wrong direction. Think of your Warcaster as a tradesman, and the army he or she takes as their tools. It doesn't do a whole lot of good for a carpenter to bring a blacksmiths tools to work with him, nor does it do an engineer any good to bring a carpentry belt to work. Designing your list to fit the needs of your caster can be a challenge but you have to familiarize yourself with which casters can support which kind of 'Jacks, and how many before they become overloaded. Deneghra is a finesse caster that requires a lot of practice to play well, and the truth of it is, she is not a strong 'Jack supporter, though with the assistance of some of our Solos and Units, she can do the job quite well through her debuffs.

If you want to field more 'Jacks in a straightforward manner, consider taking casters like Mortenebra, pGoreshade, eSkarre or pAsphyxious. All of them have the focus and the spell list to handle a couple of heavies and still be able to function.

[Aldarionn]

Take a skarlock just for a extra ghost walk. Remember it ignores free strikes and lets you move through guys.

No, it doesnt. Ghost Walk allows you to move through TERRAIN, OBSTACLES, and OBSTRUCTIONS without penalty. It says nothing about moving through models, friendly or enemy. It is a very useful tool for getting an Arcnode in the right place or moving a unit of Bile Thralls up into a good position to Purge, but you cannot just move through models all willy-nilly like with it.

[Wulfen]

I don't see a whole lot of stealth/incorporeal in your lists. Especially against a gun-line, you either take a swarm, or multiple lines, or you take units that can't be hit by normal means.

I'm also a big believer in the Satyxis with the Sea Witch. Ranged has a real hard time against them, and I usually combine them with Bane Thralls and something else hard to hit, like the Ghost Raiders.

[Tionas]

There have been long discussions (which, i believe, you've been part of.) involving our vulnerability to shooting.

If its really bothering you (and it really bothers me) Get yourself some satyxis and/or Ghost Pirates. they are both speed 7, and both of them will Force your opponent to deal with them or suffer some tremendous consequences. Myslef, I'd leave the Reaper at home. She is Focus strapped as it is, and the reaper requires a few focus to make it hum. I've never gotten the stalker to do its worth for me, and for three points, Gerlak or a pistol wraith seems better.

I'm in agreement here, I don't think you chose the right army to go with her. Give her a few more goes.

[FederationX]

@ Silopolis. Just checking in to see if you've had any luck in the last week with pDenny.