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  1. #1
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    Default Convergence of Cyriss to be a one time only release?

    I'm sorry if this as come up already, but in another forum that I go to one of the users made these statements:

    These minis look incredible in person! Privateer did mention that this is a "limited" release, meaning they aren't planning on expanding the faction much beyond its original release, but I'm sure that's somewhere in this thread already.
    No, they explicitly said the products weren't going to be limited in production, but that as expansion books came out they would include little to no new Convergence material. This came from the mouths of three Privateer employees (the organized play guy, the retailer support guy, and a marketing guy) at the ACD trade show. If I bump into any of them again this afternoon, I'll get more information.
    I have never heard of this before and I was under the assumption that Cyriss was going to be a fully fledged faction, that was going to receive as much support and new releases as any of the other big 5 as new books came out...

    Could someone confirm or hopefully deny these rumours?
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  2. #2
    Destroyer of Worlds dsmiles's Avatar
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    The problem is: They're going to be even MORE of a 'catch-up' faction than Retribution, as far as model count goes. But I was under the same understanding about their being a full-fledged faction.

  3. #3
    Destroyer of Worlds quindraco's Avatar
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    This would sideline them even more than minions. If PP plans on doing this I hope they tell us BEFORE we drop money on them.

  4. #4
    Destroyer of Worlds Dino-Czar's Avatar
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    IF Cyriss was going to be a once off I'd have expected a mercenary contract like the Pirates book was, back in the day.

    Since they aren't a contract I'm comfortable anticipating future releases.

  5. #5
    Destroyer of Worlds Vicomte Athos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    The problem is: They're going to be even MORE of a 'catch-up' faction than Retribution, as far as model count goes. But I was under the same understanding about their being a full-fledged faction.
    Seeing as they releases with as much as Retribution has now that isn't really an accurate assumption.

  6. #6
    Marketing Coordinator PPS_Simon's Avatar
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    Right now we don't plan for the Convergence of Cyriss to be added to the regular rotation of updated armies in our WARMACHINE anthology books (Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate of Menoth, Cryx, and the Retribution of Scyrah), but we will likely add new models to their ranks from time to time.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Simon View Post
    Right now we don't plan for the Convergence of Cyriss to be added to the regular rotation of updated armies in our WARMACHINE anthology books (Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate of Menoth, Cryx, and the Retribution of Scyrah), but we will likely add new models to their ranks from time to time.
    That wasn't the reply that I was expecting but thank you very much for confirming it anyway.
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  8. #8
    Destroyer of Worlds bouncymischa's Avatar
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    Heheh, I suppose that solves the worry about everyone jumping on the Cyriss bandwagon. :P

    It doesn't really affect me... I'm not terribly concerned about needing new shinies for my faction, and getting a relatively self-contained faction is an interesting idea.
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  9. #9
    Eater of Brains MagnustheJust's Avatar
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    Other side of the argument...

    You are pretty much getting the whole faction released at once. I am not really getting how this is a bad thing??



    DO NOT
    take the next statement as whinging, but as an observation...

    Convergence is already getting more in their initial release than Minions as a whole have to this point. So yeah... still not seeing the downside. Especially considering that they are a 'shadow organization' that prefers to pull strings from behind the curtain.
    Last edited by MagnustheJust; 04-05-2013 at 09:10 AM.
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  10. #10
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    I dont think as many people will buy into them now and PP has just lost some sales here. There release may be more than normal but how much does the meta change and tactics change with every book, Cyriss wont get that. A year or so ago it was all about the high defence, now its high armour. Cyriss wont get those evolutions and people will learn there few tricks!
    Last edited by Mod_Redphantasm; 04-05-2013 at 09:52 AM.

  11. #11
    Conqueror FakeProblems's Avatar
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    I actually like that they are not going to be a full fledged deal.

  12. #12
    Judge Mr. Golden Deal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnustheJust View Post
    Other side of the argument...

    You are pretty much getting the whole faction released at once. I am not really getting how this is a bad thing??



    DO NOT
    take the next statement as whinging, but as an observation...

    Convergence is already getting more in their initial release than Minions as a whole have to this point. So yeah... still not seeing the downside... Especially considering that they are a 'shadow organization' that prefers to pull strings from behind the curtain.
    It's not necessarily bad, but it is disappointing. Players like adding new models to their armies, playing new things, getting new things to paint, etc. Not to mention that with an evolving meta and game, the initial releases might not leave you with many options to play against factions with updated models.
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  13. #13
    Destroyer of Worlds SnakeEyes's Avatar
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    Yikes! That's like buying into Pirates but without the ability to then just "go Merc" after you got bored with the limited set of models. Gotta' admit, that has be rethinking getting into Cyriss.

  14. #14
    Eater of Worlds Demeritus's Avatar
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    I still expect there to be quite a bit of complaining from people about the "lack of Convergence support" popping up now and going into the next year but if nothing else people know going into the army that it will be handled quite differently than the others. I am looking forward to them myself though.


  15. #15
    Destroyer of Worlds Dino-Czar's Avatar
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    Wat?


    So... wait... why weren't they a merc contract like Rhul or Shea?

    I'm at a loss for words.

  16. #16
    Destroyer of Worlds MidnightFox0083's Avatar
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    Interesting. So they're a Faction, but not a MAIN Faction.



  17. #17
    Destroyer of Worlds Lanz's Avatar
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    It's probably a good idea, all things considered. If they have enough tech to be competitive, it might make it a lot easier to release new factions without needing much catch-up.

    Personally, I think it would work to just spread the releases out and have books that revolve around specific wars and events and don't include all the factions. Like a Cryx+Khador+Cygnar book that has their yearly updates and revolves around their conflict, then the following year a Protectorate+Ret+Mercs book, revolving around some conflict involving those factions, or whatever. Then the next cycle mixes them up again to revolve around 2 other conflicts.

    I know people moan and groan about getting things at the same time, but it's not like every faction has an equal amount of high-end competitive models anyways, so it doesn't really shift the balance much if they aren't all updating at the same time.

    I think slowing it down would do more good than harm. Gives more time for the dust to settle after new releases.

    How well The Convergence handles in the competitive sphere might be a sign of how things can change.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Golden Deal View Post
    It's not necessarily bad, but it is disappointing. Players like adding new models to their armies, playing new things, getting new things to paint, etc. Not to mention that with an evolving meta and game, the initial releases might not leave you with many options to play against factions with updated models.
    Those are my sentiments exactly.

    While it hasn't turned me of the faction per se, it has made me seriously reconsider buying into it knowing that they will be unable to evolve to meet an ever changing meta.

    1 hour ago they were a sure thing for me, after hearing this, I'll have to seriously think about it.
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  19. #19
    Destroyer of Worlds Lanz's Avatar
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    Bear in mind that Simon didn't say they aren't getting any new releases. I should think that if significant models are released (like colossals), The Convergence will get its fair share. Just not every single release cycle.
    "If at first you don't succeed, label it version 1.0."


  20. #20
    Destroyer of Worlds quindraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Simon View Post
    Right now we don't plan for the Convergence of Cyriss to be added to the regular rotation of updated armies in our WARMACHINE anthology books (Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate of Menoth, Cryx, and the Retribution of Scyrah), but we will likely add new models to their ranks from time to time.
    Thanks for the advance warning, I appreciate knowing these things up front. I always make sure to warn people going into mercs or minions to do so with their eyes open, I'll start mentioning this as well.

  21. #21
    Destroyer of Worlds LunarSol's Avatar
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    This is quite surprising, but in some ways, makes me more interested in buying into them than I was before.

  22. #22
    Destroyer of Worlds bouncymischa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino-Czar View Post
    Wat?

    So... wait... why weren't they a merc contract like Rhul or Shea?

    I'm at a loss for words.
    I can think of a few reasons, off-hand. The biggest one is probably just conceptual -- the Convergence certainly isn't going to be hiring out to anyone to do their work, so they certainly wouldn't follow Mercenary rules. In fact, they seem like an experimental first step in a concept I'd tossed around in the Minions forum a little while back -- the idea of independent, standalone factions to represent minor powers. Arguably, the Thornfall Alliance and Blindwater Congregation could have (and perhaps should have) been the same thing -- independent mini-factions, rather than pacts.

    In the end, I suppose it only really matters if you're attached to the idea of a constant expansion and evolution for your faction. Certainly, with faction bloat steadily increasing in the game, it does eventually make one wonder whether or not it's really necessary. So another argument could be made that the Convergence is an experiment in stepping away from the "constant expansion" model.
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  23. #23

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    Simon- How will rules get released for new models if they're not part of the anthology books?

    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Simon
    ...but we will likely add new models to their ranks from time to time.

  24. #24
    Destroyer of Worlds Invaderzahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiTides View Post
    Simon- How will rules get released for new models if they're not part of the anthology books?
    NoQuarter? maybe a mini-section in some future books?
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  25. #25
    Judge Mr. Golden Deal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
    Those are my sentiments exactly.

    While it hasn't turned me of the faction per se, it has made me seriously reconsider buying into it knowing that they will be unable to evolve to meet an ever changing meta.

    1 hour ago they were a sure thing for me, after hearing this, I'll have to seriously think about it.
    To be fair to Privateer Press, Simon didn't rule out new models entirely, just that they won't be getting new models in every anthology books like other factions, which is fine. I don't need the 1 warcaster + other models in every book to be happy with the faction as long as I feel that the faction has the tools to deal with everything. I don't want to have the faction be released and then be permanently hobbled the way that Forces of Hordes: Minions and Forces of Warmachine: Retribution of Scyrah were.
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  26. #26
    Conqueror Thanatos73's Avatar
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    That's a strange turn for the Convergence. Not necessarily a bad thing, just not what I was expecting. On the plus side they get lots of new shinies right off the bat. On the minus side it may be a long time until they get anything new.

    It does seem to make it easier to release new self contained factions in the future. I do wonder if the new Hordes faction will be a Convergence like release, or be a full faction like Retribution.
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  27. #27
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    This is a little surprising. Still thinking about getting them though.

  28. #28
    Destroyer of Worlds bouncymischa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanz View Post
    Personally, I think it would work to just spread the releases out and have books that revolve around specific wars and events and don't include all the factions. Like a Cryx+Khador+Cygnar book that has their yearly updates and revolves around their conflict, then the following year a Protectorate+Ret+Mercs book, revolving around some conflict involving those factions, or whatever. Then the next cycle mixes them up again to revolve around 2 other conflicts.
    I'm reminded of Dystopian Wars, which recently released an expansion book largely focused on the conflict in Belgium. So the various European powers got new allies to play with, but the FSA and Japanese didn't.
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  29. #29
    Destroyer of Worlds Da-Rock's Avatar
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    Its not April Fools still is it?

  30. #30
    Marketing Coordinator PPS_Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiTides View Post
    Simon- How will rules get released for new models if they're not part of the anthology books?
    They would likely be included in the anthology books when we do release new models, they just won't be an assumed inclusion like our main factions.

  31. #31
    Eater of Brains MagnustheJust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiTides View Post
    Simon- How will rules get released for new models if they're not part of the anthology books?
    Many early Mercenary releases were initially debuted in No Quarter - Croe's Cutthroats, Steelhead Halberdiers, and Alexia & the Risen...

    Heh, I remember the big stink when the wrong template was used in the magazine, and Alexia was listed as a warcaster!! Hehe - good times!!
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  32. #32
    Eater of Brains MagnustheJust's Avatar
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    Rassafrakkin' split second ninja-ing Simon... Now I gotta drink!!

    Quote Originally Posted by moleverine View Post
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  33. #33
    Zombie Conqueror Thanan's Avatar
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    Simon,

    Will convergence still be included in the fluff, in a similar manner to the other factions, in each book (similar to Colossals?)



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  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Simon View Post
    They would likely be included in the anthology books when we do release new models, they just won't be an assumed inclusion like our main factions.
    Okay, thank you :-)

    This actually does not turn me off to Cyriss at all. In fact, it makes me more interested in them!

  35. #35
    Destroyer of Worlds Cambeul's Avatar
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    It looks like the Convergence will be something like the Pirates Book. And how many updates have they gotten recently?
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  36. #36
    Marketing Coordinator PPS_Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanan View Post
    Simon,

    Will convergence still be included in the fluff, in a similar manner to the other factions, in each book (similar to Colossals?)
    With the launch of SIX we're considering some new ways to address the narrative fiction in the anthology books and how we advance our overaching meta-plot, so I don't have a solid answer to your question right now.

  37. #37
    Eater of Brains MagnustheJust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambeul View Post
    It looks like the Convergence will be something like the Pirates Book. And how many updates have they gotten recently?
    Quote Originally Posted by moleverine View Post
    If you worship MagnustheJust, you fight for coin, and that is all.
    Quote Originally Posted by solkan View Post
    You mean Magnus isn't the Harbinger of the Comfy Chair?
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  38. #38
    Destroyer of Worlds legionaires's Avatar
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    At the initial flash in the pan I was all boo on this development. But then I thought about it for a moment. How does this make Convergence any different from my Magnus' Agenda lists? It will make Convergence a self contained force where once you get your models, you have less catching up to think about compared to if you started a brand new Cygnar/Menoth/Khador/Cryx force today and felt you needed to own one of everything at least.

    I could see where some players who are of a 40k/WHFB mind set/background would actually like to not have to always be thinking of if they are going to "have to buy" something from the next book. Of course it could be that PP wanted to push Convergence out with the Force Book, not have to worry about them in the next anthology and then go back to a standard release schedule in the next book.

    Who know other than PP staff.

    TL DR The idea of not getting regular releases is starting to grow on me.
    Last edited by legionaires; 04-05-2013 at 09:39 AM.

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  39. #39
    Destroyer of Worlds DemonCalibre's Avatar
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    I wonder if this choice is driven by the fact that with six factions the anthology books were getting huge with model rules if they have any amount of normal releases.

    I mean think about it. If we have six factions(Seven with Mercenaries), presuming 5 releases, each faction gets 7 pages, meaning 49 pages on rules alone. That is a pretty hefty chunk, if Convergence were in their it would be 56, more and significantly more if there were six releases.
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  40. #40
    Destroyer of Worlds Dino-Czar's Avatar
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    Lateral growth into more factions vs vertical growth of factions is a good idea.

    Being upfront with that plan from the start would have been a good idea too.

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