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Thread: Can't Decide

  1. #1

    Default Can't Decide

    I like the look of Cygnar and Retribution armies. However I can't decide which one to go with. I'm using www.thewarstore.com to purchase my battlegroup whenever I do decide and I'm comparing prices of the models and can't tell which models are cheaper. If they're about the same price then I REALLY can't decide which to go with! Can anyone tell me which faction is cheaper to go with? I like the mechanics of either faction so it doesn't bother me which .

    Thanks for the help!

  2. #2

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    This is a "should I buy Cygnar or Ret" thread, I'm sure it covers most of the things you would like to know http://privateerpressforums.com/show...final-Decision.

    Cost is subjective. The game and table top gaming is expensive in general, and you're going to find comparable costs for start-up for both factions. The way I chose my faction was based on looks and what faction got me the most excited. The game is very well balanced so you do not have to worry about making a poor decision in terms of faction choice and picking a lemon.
    Last edited by Tick-Tock Man; 04-27-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tick-Tock Man View Post
    This is a "should I buy Cygnar or Ret" thread, I'm sure it covers most of the things you would like to know http://privateerpressforums.com/show...final-Decision.

    Cost is subjective. The game and table top gaming is expensive in general, and you're going to find comparable costs for start-up for both factions. The way I chose my faction was based on looks and what faction got me the most excited. The game is very well balanced so you do not have to worry about making a poor decision in terms of faction choice and picking a lemon.
    My mind has been made up! Ret it is! They look badass and I like their mechanics more (stealthy ninja elves are smexy). Thanks for the link! Is there a favorite online store to buy from among people here? Does a starter battlegroup come with paint or markers or anything?

    Are there any extra units I should invest in other than the battlegroup? And do the models all need bases or do they come mounted already?
    Last edited by WNxTyr4el; 04-27-2013 at 05:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Destroyer of Worlds ViperClaw's Avatar
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    No paints.
    No markers or tokens.
    Comes with basic starter rules.

    Models need to be assembled but come with bases. You will need some "superglue". Just about any CA glue will work (cyanoacrylate I believe).

    There are all kinds of units that you can get (or should get as Retrubution casters go lite on jacks and heavy on infantry except for eVyross). I would recommend Mage Hunter Strike Force with the UA and either Dawnguard Sentinels with the UA or Houseguard Halberdiers with UA. Any of these units will work well with your starterbox caster (and pretty much any other Ret caster).

    If you don't know the rules then just use the battlebox to start. Play quite a few games at that level until you are familiar with movement, shooting, melee, activation order, etc. If you tell people you want to play a starterbox game sometimes they will look at you strangely. Just tell them you are new and need to learn the game. Startergbox games are much shorter in duration so it shouldn't be a problem finding a game. Most people will gladly help you learn the rules and are very patient with new players. If they aren't they are being thickheaded as they shouldn't be running off new players they should be helping them and getting them excited to play the game.

    Have fun.

    Welcome to the cause. Kill all humans (magic users at least).

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperClaw View Post
    No paints.
    No markers or tokens.
    Comes with basic starter rules.

    Models need to be assembled but come with bases. You will need some "superglue". Just about any CA glue will work (cyanoacrylate I believe).

    There are all kinds of units that you can get (or should get as Retrubution casters go lite on jacks and heavy on infantry except for eVyross). I would recommend Mage Hunter Strike Force with the UA and either Dawnguard Sentinels with the UA or Houseguard Halberdiers with UA. Any of these units will work well with your starterbox caster (and pretty much any other Ret caster).

    If you don't know the rules then just use the battlebox to start. Play quite a few games at that level until you are familiar with movement, shooting, melee, activation order, etc. If you tell people you want to play a starterbox game sometimes they will look at you strangely. Just tell them you are new and need to learn the game. Startergbox games are much shorter in duration so it shouldn't be a problem finding a game. Most people will gladly help you learn the rules and are very patient with new players. If they aren't they are being thickheaded as they shouldn't be running off new players they should be helping them and getting them excited to play the game.

    Have fun.

    Welcome to the cause. Kill all humans (magic users at least).
    Thanks for the welcome and info! I'm moving soon but hoping my sister's boyfriend will join me in this endeavor for the few months I have left in this state. I'm probably looking at a little over $100 to start here which is fine (better than 40K startup costs). So any superglue from like WalMart would work? Also, is there a way to find out what stores near me hold WarMachine games? Or is it not like that?

    Lastly, do I need to buy the faction rule book and faction deck of cards?

  6. #6

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    Use google to find local gaming shops, or do what I did, call every gaming and comic book shop in the area asking if they hold gaming nights. Where do you live?

    I personally use lock-tite gel based super glue (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/sg_...el-Control.htm) and love it.

    A rule book is very handy to have, and currently Ret does not have a deck. Faction books are not a requirement, so you can take them or leave them. Some things you will want to get are card protectors, erasable markers, and tokens (hell pennies work for this).

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tick-Tock Man View Post
    Use google to find local gaming shops, or do what I did, call every gaming and comic book shop in the area asking if they hold gaming nights. Where do you live?

    I personally use lock-tite gel based super glue (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/sg_...el-Control.htm) and love it.

    A rule book is very handy to have, and currently Ret does not have a deck. Faction books are not a requirement, so you can take them or leave them. Some things you will want to get are card protectors, erasable markers, and tokens (hell pennies work for this).
    I live in Maryland right now. Moving to Tampa, Florida in August. And yeah I'll look up all the gaming and comic shops near me to see if they have gaming nights. I know the one comic store I found nearby here has Friday Night Magic but I'm not sure if they hold other games there. I'm in Baltimore/Towson now, moving to Columbia and will check the stores near there too. I have the Ret token set in my cart right now, that's what I plan on getting.

  8. #8

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    You can also use http://www.privateerevents.com/ to find stores that are registered with Privateer Press.

    Melee kill list
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  9. #9
    Destroyer of Worlds ViperClaw's Avatar
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    It's ok to learn the game with your sister's boyfriend but it is more important to play against people that really know the rules. And if they aren't certain of a rule or interaction that they admit it and look it up in the rulebook. The rulebook is very cut and dry and there are very few, if any, gray areas. There really isn't room for "interpretation" of a rule like there is in other games which is one the things that everyone likes about Warmachine/Hordes.

    I'd get the rulebook as a first "expansion" of your army. More detailed/complete ruleset than the one found in the battlebox. It's not as fun as new minis but is worth the investment. Great appendix makes looking up rules questions fast and easy.

  10. #10

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    The faction rule book you're saying right? Because the battle group comes with the game rule book?, right? I'm really excited to start playing. There's a store where my sister goes to play FNM that's a privateer press venue for warmachine so maybe I could play there!

  11. #11
    Combatant loki08234's Avatar
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    The battle group only has the quick start rules, not the complete rules. So I would advise against the faction book, (unless you want to know the fluff) and get the main rule book. Also get the tokens later, use the money on more models!

  12. #12
    Destroyer of Worlds Delta57Dash's Avatar
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    Welcome to the angry Elves! I'd recommend reading through our tactics page in the stickies. You can pick up your pointy ears and your crossbow from the Quartermaster on floor 3.

  13. #13
    Destroyer of Worlds KhaorvaK's Avatar
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    Hey, you might look into getting the smaller rulebook on ebay. Something along the lines of:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARMACHINE-P...-/181128967069

    The main rulebook is, as expected, overly expensive, and has all the same rules as the mini rulebook. If you're really into reading up on lore, go with the big rulebook... But if I were you I'd prefer to spend my money on more models. :P

    Also, I second what others said about playing against experienced players. You don't know how often new players can come to an incorrect understanding of the rules because no one challenges them on it. ...It's true that there really is no "interpretation" aspect to the rules once you understand them, but there is PLENTY of room for misunderstanding.

    As one glaring example:

    A model that declares a charge and is not able to reach melee range has failed his charge and his activation immediately ends.

    HOWEVER, there's a confusing part shortly after in the rules that states that if his charged target no longer exists, he can put his attack into another model.

    ...The second portion can be easily misinterpreted by a new player trying to grasp all the concepts at once to say that if you don't reach your original target, you can attack another target you can reach...

    ...But that's not really the case. In fact the rules are pretty black and white on what the model can attack (no interpretation) but a new player can easily forget the first part or misread the second part to come to a false understanding.


    ^ I hope i haven't confused you... I just mean to point out that an experienced hand can clear up these issues before they become ingrained into your memory incorrectly

    good luck, have fun, kill all humans.

  14. #14

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    Haha thank you all for the welcomes and help. I'm very excited to start in a month or so. I'll look into the big rule book but I may be able to understand the game from the smaller one that comes with the starter kit.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaorvaK View Post
    Hey, you might look into getting the smaller rulebook on ebay. Something along the lines of:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARMACHINE-P...-/181128967069

    The main rulebook is, as expected, overly expensive, and has all the same rules as the mini rulebook. If you're really into reading up on lore, go with the big rulebook... But if I were you I'd prefer to spend my money on more models. :P

    Also, I second what others said about playing against experienced players. You don't know how often new players can come to an incorrect understanding of the rules because no one challenges them on it. ...It's true that there really is no "interpretation" aspect to the rules once you understand them, but there is PLENTY of room for misunderstanding.

    As one glaring example:

    A model that declares a charge and is not able to reach melee range has failed his charge and his activation immediately ends.

    HOWEVER, there's a confusing part shortly after in the rules that states that if his charged target no longer exists, he can put his attack into another model.

    ...The second portion can be easily misinterpreted by a new player trying to grasp all the concepts at once to say that if you don't reach your original target, you can attack another target you can reach...

    ...But that's not really the case. In fact the rules are pretty black and white on what the model can attack (no interpretation) but a new player can easily forget the first part or misread the second part to come to a false understanding.


    ^ I hope i haven't confused you... I just mean to point out that an experienced hand can clear up these issues before they become ingrained into your memory incorrectly

    good luck, have fun, kill all humans.
    God, the only thing worse than remembering and learning all the rules of the game in my first 5 or 6 match ups was trying to remember what my guys did. I played my first four games with a Banshee not realizing his gun caused knock down, and remembering all the things Halbs could do with their UA was an undertaking (crap, forgot to reform, oops I wanted to shield wall). Coincidentally, the first game I used the Banshee's gun correctly I won.

  16. #16
    Destroyer of Worlds Dubstep's Avatar
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    Well, at least its easier to learn, and less confusing, than a certain "other" game...
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  17. #17
    Destroyer of Worlds bouncymischa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tick-Tock Man View Post
    God, the only thing worse than remembering and learning all the rules of the game in my first 5 or 6 match ups was trying to remember what my guys did. I played my first four games with a Banshee not realizing his gun caused knock down, and remembering all the things Halbs could do with their UA was an undertaking (crap, forgot to reform, oops I wanted to shield wall). Coincidentally, the first game I used the Banshee's gun correctly I won.
    Hmmm, that does make me wonder... is it that wise to suggest getting UAs for units for completely novice players? While the UAs are very useful to our units (and thus should be obtained eventually), they do add an extra layer of complexity to the game that could be difficult for a new player to surmount.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncymischa View Post
    Hmmm, that does make me wonder... is it that wise to suggest getting UAs for units for completely novice players? While the UAs are very useful to our units (and thus should be obtained eventually), they do add an extra layer of complexity to the game that could be difficult for a new player to surmount.
    Yeah I was looking around...what are UAs, lol.
    Last edited by WNxTyr4el; 04-28-2013 at 09:23 AM.

  19. #19

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    Get UA's, it is what make's our infantry amazing. It doesn't add complexity, it adds awesome.

  20. #20
    Destroyer of Worlds Deranith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncymischa View Post
    Hmmm, that does make me wonder... is it that wise to suggest getting UAs for units for completely novice players? While the UAs are very useful to our units (and thus should be obtained eventually), they do add an extra layer of complexity to the game that could be difficult for a new player to surmount.
    I generally suggest getting the UA with the unit even for newer players. The UAs add a new level of depth to the unit, but I feel it's easier to learn how to do something right the first time than to learn how to do something, then change how it gets done. The UAs for Ret are game-changers. Take the MHSF for example. They're a unit of RNG 12, RAT 6, POW 10 shots which isn't terribly spectacular. With that your target priorities are lowish-ARM buffed unfantry, light jacks and heavy jacks as target priority. Add the UA and the ability to ignore LoS and your target isn't damaging the front line, it's decimating the support solos and units. Playing against opponents who are familiar with the MHSF aren't nearly as scared of them when they can't shoot past the front line. Add the Halb UA and suddenly the Halberdier unit can do more than shield wall and tarpit, they become an offensive powerhouse whose damage and accuracy have to be respected. That's not to say that the units are useless without the UAs, but as someone who rarely sends a unit into combat without one it was easier to learn how to use them all at once.
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deranith View Post
    I generally suggest getting the UA with the unit even for newer players. The UAs add a new level of depth to the unit, but I feel it's easier to learn how to do something right the first time than to learn how to do something, then change how it gets done. The UAs for Ret are game-changers. Take the MHSF for example. They're a unit of RNG 12, RAT 6, POW 10 shots which isn't terribly spectacular. With that your target priorities are lowish-ARM buffed unfantry, light jacks and heavy jacks as target priority. Add the UA and the ability to ignore LoS and your target isn't damaging the front line, it's decimating the support solos and units. Playing against opponents who are familiar with the MHSF aren't nearly as scared of them when they can't shoot past the front line. Add the Halb UA and suddenly the Halberdier unit can do more than shield wall and tarpit, they become an offensive powerhouse whose damage and accuracy have to be respected. That's not to say that the units are useless without the UAs, but as someone who rarely sends a unit into combat without one it was easier to learn how to use them all at once.
    I'm adding them to my future cart right now. What types of brushes will I need, while we're on the topic of ordering things . I can do P3s "Fine Hobby Paintbrush", P3s "Large Drybrush", and P3 "Fine Studio Paint Brush." Will those 3 be enough? Or will I need one medium-large paint brush?

  22. #22
    Destroyer of Worlds bouncymischa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deranith View Post
    I generally suggest getting the UA with the unit even for newer players. The UAs add a new level of depth to the unit, but I feel it's easier to learn how to do something right the first time than to learn how to do something, then change how it gets done. The UAs for Ret are game-changers. Take the MHSF for example. They're a unit of RNG 12, RAT 6, POW 10 shots which isn't terribly spectacular. With that your target priorities are lowish-ARM buffed unfantry, light jacks and heavy jacks as target priority. Add the UA and the ability to ignore LoS and your target isn't damaging the front line, it's decimating the support solos and units. Playing against opponents who are familiar with the MHSF aren't nearly as scared of them when they can't shoot past the front line. Add the Halb UA and suddenly the Halberdier unit can do more than shield wall and tarpit, they become an offensive powerhouse whose damage and accuracy have to be respected. That's not to say that the units are useless without the UAs, but as someone who rarely sends a unit into combat without one it was easier to learn how to use them all at once.
    You do make a valid point. On the other hand, thinking about it myself, I suspect I'd be likely to encourage a starting player to pick up the Dawnguard Sentinels, as they're a pretty straightforwards beatstick unit, and the UA is perhaps one of the least necessary -- certainly, Vengeance is powerful and useful, but it doesn't bring any particularly new capabilities to the unit the way the MHSF or Halberdiers UAs do. Heck, considering the number of times I just take Sentinels and Stormfalls as my units, I could see myself encouraging a new player to start with those and work their way up to the MHSF and Halberdiers. X3
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  23. #23
    Destroyer of Worlds KhaorvaK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNxTyr4el View Post
    I'm adding them to my future cart right now. What types of brushes will I need, while we're on the topic of ordering things . I can do P3s "Fine Hobby Paintbrush", P3s "Large Drybrush", and P3 "Fine Studio Paint Brush." Will those 3 be enough? Or will I need one medium-large paint brush?
    If you have a local game shop, I would encourage you not to order online and go through them Besides they'll have good advice on painting, what to buy, what you don't need to buy, etc, and you can find a game group.

    That being said. start with a few basic brushes (like you've selected) and buy more as you find them necessary. ...personally my brush range is quite small... I usually only buy a new brush when I need to replace.

  24. #24

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    Welcome to the angriest faction!

    all of the advice above is fairly good, i'll add/reiterate a few things that might be helpful.

    Firstly, the battlebox is a wonderful buy and will include basic rules/models/bases and rule cards. The main rulebook or mini-book are required 'eventually' to flush out all of the rules. Our forces book is not required to play (like that other game) as when you buy a model, rules are included. The forces book does have all of those rules as well, and the storyline of the faction (note: it does not contain rules for every model as wrath and collossals have new models in them. Again, models come with rules so they are not required). Another good purchase (if you have a tablet of descentish capability) is the war room app. It is free, and has the The rules/cards of a few models for every faction. For 7 or so dollars you can buy faction decks through it that will give you the full rules cards of that faction (and all future releases). It was a lifesaver to me for proxying things before I buy.

    As to good places to purchase things, warstore as you mentioned is good. I do most of my shopping through amazon, discountgamesinc is the seller I usually use. I sadly do not have a local game store (if I did I would purchase through them first, as place to play is nice). Loctite glue is by far the best glue I have used. I would HIGHLY reccomend a hobby drill and thin wire for pinning once you really start to purchase models. It is by no means required but it can help reinforce joins to make your model sturdy.

    As for paints I use a mix of P3 and citadel. Mainly because I won a contest and have like 30 pots of citadel paints. I use brushes I found at wamart (5 dollar hobby set. had a descent fine detail/detail brush and a few wider ones). The main thing with brushes is find ones you like. If you ever need to strip paint off, I reccoment LA's totally awesome cleaner (it's like a dollar a bottle around here). It will remove paint without harming the plasti/metal of the model. Just let it sit for 8+ hours (I left a plastic model in for 4 days to no ill effect). The longer it sets the quicker it comes off. I use a soft bristle tooth brush to help coax off any excess. If you seal it, will take longer to remove.

    Dealing with rules, I suggest using the starter rules until you are quite content. They have all but nuances for units/full list of power attacks/cavalry and extra details for combat/movement so they give you a good grasp. If you have trouble finding experianced players in your area (such as me, no local lgs, only other players I know are my family) don't be put off by learning on your own. If the rules don't explain an interaction you come across, or want clarification check out these forums, rules forums especially. Search first, and if you can't find it, just ask.

    wow, wall of text. hope some of that helps....oh and buy garryth. don't listen to nay-sayers. he is THE best elf.

  25. #25

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    That was a really elaborate response! Thank you so much! Yeah, I'm going to check out my local hobby store before I buy anything online. They should have everything that I need including brushes, paints, starter kit, super glue - the works! I downloaded the War Room on my iPhone and I haven't used it yet. What I have in my cart is the following:

    -Starter kit
    -Ret Paint Kit
    -P3 Super Glue
    -Dawnguard Sentinels (no UA)
    -Dice
    -Hordes Template Set
    -Ret Token Set

    I'm hoping to be able to get all that from the hobby shop .

  26. #26
    Destroyer of Worlds KhaorvaK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNxTyr4el View Post
    That was a really elaborate response! Thank you so much! Yeah, I'm going to check out my local hobby store before I buy anything online. They should have everything that I need including brushes, paints, starter kit, super glue - the works! I downloaded the War Room on my iPhone and I haven't used it yet. What I have in my cart is the following:

    -Starter kit
    -Ret Paint Kit
    -P3 Super Glue
    -Dawnguard Sentinels (no UA)
    -Dice
    -Hordes Template Set
    -Ret Token Set

    I'm hoping to be able to get all that from the hobby shop .

    Sounds great. Go forth and prosper!

    (as stated, be ready to buy the Sentinels UA after 2 or 3 games, but for learning purposes, you'll be fine without them).

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaorvaK View Post
    Sounds great. Go forth and prosper!

    (as stated, be ready to buy the Sentinels UA after 2 or 3 games, but for learning purposes, you'll be fine without them).
    I'm so excited! You think the hobby shop will be cheaper than online or around the same price? I'd definitely want to support my local store first so that will be my first stop anyway, but just asking what you think.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNxTyr4el View Post
    I live in Maryland right now. Moving to Tampa, Florida in August. And yeah I'll look up all the gaming and comic shops near me to see if they have gaming nights. I know the one comic store I found nearby here has Friday Night Magic but I'm not sure if they hold other games there. I'm in Baltimore/Towson now, moving to Columbia and will check the stores near there too. I have the Ret token set in my cart right now, that's what I plan on getting.
    In your area, we got Dropzone Games and Games and Stuff, both in Glen Burnie, and there is Titan Games out in Timonium...There is not shortage of places to play around the Baltimore area. I can't answer for Tampa.

    Saturday's are the game day for Dropzone, and Sunday's for Games and Stuff...I'd call Titan and see when they usually throw down.

    Welcome to the fold!

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serric View Post
    In your area, we got Dropzone Games and Games and Stuff, both in Glen Burnie, and there is Titan Games out in Timonium...There is not shortage of places to play around the Baltimore area. I can't answer for Tampa.

    Saturday's are the game day for Dropzone, and Sunday's for Games and Stuff...I'd call Titan and see when they usually throw down.

    Welcome to the fold!
    Thanks for the stores! I'll look them up!

  30. #30
    Destroyer of Worlds KhaorvaK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNxTyr4el View Post
    I'm so excited! You think the hobby shop will be cheaper than online or around the same price? I'd definitely want to support my local store first so that will be my first stop anyway, but just asking what you think.

    To be honest you can almost always expect online to be at least a little cheaper.

    But different game stores are different. With a membership at my local game store, I get a 10% discount on all purchases, and a 20% discount on purchases of $100 or more. Considering I wouldn't expect even online to be discounting for much more than 30% (except in rare circumstances), I'll pay the extra 10% to support local.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaorvaK View Post
    To be honest you can almost always expect online to be at least a little cheaper.

    But different game stores are different. With a membership at my local game store, I get a 10% discount on all purchases, and a 20% discount on purchases of $100 or more. Considering I wouldn't expect even online to be discounting for much more than 30% (except in rare circumstances), I'll pay the extra 10% to support local.
    Totally makes sense man. If it's not too much more expensive, I'll shell out the extra money.

  32. #32

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    It is sad but true, online is generally always cheaper. I've found some places that get close when you throw down alot, but the cost of utilities, man-power, ect...and the lower volume of sales make it impossible to match. Online shops like warstore, discountgames and the like can sell models to people all over the state and sometimes other countries. Alot more potential buyers than just 1 or so cities.

    that being said, I would gladly pay full MSRP to have a store to actually play at that was within a 30 minute drive. It is sad that none are even within an hour and a half drive (at that distance gas prices push a trip to the game store to almost non existent). Be greatful gor your LGS, and support em.

  33. #33
    Destroyer of Worlds KhaorvaK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serrusklaive View Post
    It is sad but true, online is generally always cheaper. I've found some places that get close when you throw down alot, but the cost of utilities, man-power, ect...and the lower volume of sales make it impossible to match. Online shops like warstore, discountgames and the like can sell models to people all over the state and sometimes other countries. Alot more potential buyers than just 1 or so cities.

    that being said, I would gladly pay full MSRP to have a store to actually play at that was within a 30 minute drive. It is sad that none are even within an hour and a half drive (at that distance gas prices push a trip to the game store to almost non existent). Be greatful gor your LGS, and support em.

    for real. Buying figures for an awesome game is great and all, but what are you going to do with those figures if you can't ever play the game? Better have some best buds who are as hooked on spending hundreds on a game as well ...Or better have a meeting place where everyone who plays will show up once or twice a week to throw down. The value of having an LGS as a community cannot be understated- And said LGS can NOT stay in business if you shop online.

  34. #34
    Destroyer of Worlds ViperClaw's Avatar
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    Yes. I recommend supporting your local game store.

    Consider the higher cost of the models/supplies as an admission price to play in a nice store (hopefully). They do appreciate it and without player purchase support it would be difficult/impossible for them to be open for gaming.

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