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  1. #241
    Destroyer of Worlds Delta57Dash's Avatar
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    Personally, I want to give him a berserker. Redline, load it up, charge it in, boost to hit, watch the fireworks. If it blows up, money. If it doesn't, whatever, walk around popping things with a fully boosted handcannon. If you need the zerker to keep smashing stuff, upkeep redline. If not, it can run for free, so run it around blocking charge lanes, clogging up infantry lines, and being a giant nuisance.

  2. #242
    Conqueror TiechoNortheal's Avatar
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    pSorscha
    - Spriggan
    - Silly Willy
    Reinholdt
    Full Outriders
    Widowmakers
    Widowmaker Marksman
    Epic Eiryss
    min Battle Mechaniks
    Kovnik Andrei Malakov
    - Conquest

    I'm really looking forward to putting this list on the table. With a Conquest and a Spriggan to hide behind and Battle Mechaniks to Sucker, he gives pSorscha a Conquest with 3 focus for shooting every turn, not one of which comes from her precious 6. If she needs to, she can Boundless Charge it and give it a 13" threat range to deliver 5 P+S 24 hits on stationary targets.
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  3. #243
    Combatant saydzi's Avatar
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    Oh.. they did it!

    It's prototype..
    Famous russian talkshow presenter.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Malakhov

    It's good marketing turn for Russia! %)
    Last edited by saydzi; 07-10-2013 at 10:36 PM.

  4. #244
    Conqueror Pinchy's Avatar
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    I'm really looking forwards to this guy. I think he gives us something that we've not had and always wanted, the ability to run 2-3 'jacks easily. I find that whilst 14/13 is by no means going to keep him alive the whole game but thats not really an issue. Sucker! and good placement should keep him alive long enough for either his melee 'jack to do it's job or for his range 'jack to cause some good damage. That one thing I'd like would be for him to have a Wardog, but unless they change the rule he can't. Oh well, probably a good thing, he'd probably just end up throwing the dog in front of bullets
    The Objective of the game is to win.
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  5. #245
    Destroyer of Worlds scout's honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Rune View Post
    Your wrong, General consensus among the other factions is that he's the strongest, or at least one of the strongest, junior casters in that he can provide something that Khador has always wanted but never really had, viable multiple Jack lists.
    The second part of that sentence doesn't actually imply the first, so I'm not entirely convinced. I agree he makes running more jacks effective and I agree he's good - whether that makes him the strongest of the lot remains to be seen. For my money Gastone is the strongest by a fair margin when used in Cygnar, because of the jacks he has at his disposal combined with the non faction-specific buffs Cygnar can hand out (whether that really matters for Cygnar is something else). Aiakos is my second, and he arguably brings just as much innovation to Cryx as Andrei brings to us.
    Last edited by scout's honor; 07-11-2013 at 04:09 AM.
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  6. #246
    Destroyer of Worlds Sentinel3901's Avatar
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    I've been watching these threads, and I'll say the same thing I said in the Menoth forums.

    If you play Cryx or Retribution a lot, watch out for Feedback on the Satyxis Raiders and the Backlash spell on Kaelyssa. Putting a Conquest on him is awesome until they kill him with Feedback in 5 hits.

    Just a heads up! Keep partying.



  7. #247
    Destroyer of Worlds scout's honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel3901 View Post
    Putting a Conquest on him is awesome until they kill him with Feedback in 5 hits.
    This - which is totally legit - aside, I can't help but think that even without something like Backlash or boosted blast damage Andrei + a Konquest is something you can dedicate 20 points towards killing and still come out ahead in the exchange. Sucker! is a decent piece of defensive tech and with good positioning Andrei is not going to be that easy to take out, but I think it's safe to say we've all seen people do much harder things than that with 20 points of resources.

    It also means you're spending 22 points + X (cost of the jack(s) in your main battlegroup) - warjack points on stuff that's not one of our awesome infantry units. That's a lot of points to not spend on infantry in Khador.
    Last edited by scout's honor; 07-11-2013 at 04:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    My Fenris appears as a stomping, flaming horse that upon being slain, transforms into a doom reaver. It's like Swan Lake, but with Fellblades!

  8. #248

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    I think his best ability is his autonomy, meaning you can take him, a jack (I'm thinking Demolisher, maybe Decimator or Beast), and a unit of mechaniks and be a credible threat on a flank. You don't have to worry about your caster's control area, since he brings his own, and the enemy will now have to dedicate actual resources to dealing with it. It also allows you to hold onto two zones without trying to keep your caster in the middle.

    Also, I'm glad he doesn't have boundless charge. Since he has Redline, you can give the jack both that and boundless charge for an 11.5" threat range, 13.5 with one of our reach jack. With eSorscha, where Andy's jack will still benefit from her feat, that means you can throw a missile at the enemy that can easily wreck anything it hits.

  9. #249
    Destroyer of Worlds Khador247's Avatar
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    Yesterday I was like "OMG we're getting a journeyman caster!". Today I'm being more realistic. I wish that he had a spell to buff ranged jacks rather than Redline. Imagine if he gave +2 RAT and increased the size of aoes or increased the power of the shot or something. With ARM 13 and only 5 hit points he's going to die very easily to things like Electroleap, boosted AOE drifts, Backlash etc. If he's running a melee jack (which is what you want with Redline) then he is going to need to be up the table and in harm's way. I don't much like the thought of having my 7-10 points that I spent on my jack to just be sitting there the rest of the game. At times like this a light jack with a gun would really be handy...for Andy. lol.
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  10. #250

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    I get that Andy can be a nickname for Andrei, but I really wanna call him Dre.
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  11. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khador247 View Post
    Yesterday I was like "OMG we're getting a journeyman caster!". Today I'm being more realistic. I wish that he had a spell to buff ranged jacks rather than Redline. Imagine if he gave +2 RAT and increased the size of aoes or increased the power of the shot or something. With ARM 13 and only 5 hit points he's going to die very easily to things like Electroleap, boosted AOE drifts, Backlash etc. If he's running a melee jack (which is what you want with Redline) then he is going to need to be up the table and in harm's way. I don't much like the thought of having my 7-10 points that I spent on my jack to just be sitting there the rest of the game. At times like this a light jack with a gun would really be handy...for Andy. lol.
    I get the disappointment, but if you start dwelling on what he isn't, you'll miss all that he can be. The very fact that we're seriously talking about running a Decimator, and it's actually got merit as an idea, the fact that running two focus dependent jacks (something Khador is not exactly famous for) is now possible, the fact that we finally have this tool we've been envious of Cygnar for having (Journeyman Warcasters)... I dunno. I just can't get that down about him. If absolutely nothing else, he's 4 focus for 3 points. I'm pretty ok with that.

  12. #252
    Destroyer of Worlds ElectricPaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovnik Tsumi View Post
    I get the disappointment, but if you start dwelling on what he isn't, you'll miss all that he can be. The very fact that we're seriously talking about running a Decimator, and it's actually got merit as an idea, the fact that running two focus dependent jacks (something Khador is not exactly famous for) is now possible, the fact that we finally have this tool we've been envious of Cygnar for having (Journeyman Warcasters)... I dunno. I just can't get that down about him. If absolutely nothing else, he's 4 focus for 3 points. I'm pretty ok with that.
    To continue in the same direction, consider this:

    Play Andrei with pVlad. pVlad casts Signs & Portents and loads up Drago with focus. Andrei upkeeps Redline and loads up - say - a juggernaut with focus. You have now spent 11 points of focus, all of which benefits from Vlad's signature spell. In effect - for the purposes of 'jack allocation - pVlad is now a FOC 11 caster.

    Just think about that for a second. Two fully loaded 'jacks. One of them rolls 4d6, dropping on, on a POW 21 and a POW 17. The other rolls 5d6, drop the lowest two, on a pair of POW 16s. Both are charging for free. How is this not worth ten points?

    My point: it almost doesn't matter exactly what Andrei had, unless he was completely impossible to defend. He's four points of focus on a stick. The fact that he has an awesome upkeep spell is gravy.
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  13. #253
    Destroyer of Worlds ShockwaveIIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurb View Post
    I've never seen one
    Evidence of some one using one.
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  14. #254

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricPaladin View Post
    In effect - for the purposes of 'jack allocation - pVlad is now a FOC 11 caster.
    ^THIS, so hard. In the face.

  15. #255
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    pVlad is also one of I believe two casters (pSorscha) that can make a decimator an attractive choice. With Andrei, the decimator doesn't even have to compete with drago anymore and Andrei doesn't have to be stupidly close to the enemy all the time.

    That and PS 20 sustained attack sexiness

  16. #256
    Annihilator Darguth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khador247 View Post
    Yesterday I was like "OMG we're getting a journeyman caster!". Today I'm being more realistic. I wish that he had a spell to buff ranged jacks rather than Redline. Imagine if he gave +2 RAT and increased the size of aoes or increased the power of the shot or something.
    I'd honestly be a lot less happy if he had that.

    Not only do I think he'd be a lot less versatile (+2 SPD and focus-on-a-stick still has great potential for our less-used shooty jacks) but having ultra-accurate shooting is just not what Khador is supposed to be about.

    This guy, to me, is perfect. I'm so totally stoked.

  17. #257

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    So out of curiosity, I've been to the other faction boards (but not Mercs). And apparently every faction has people who agree. Their Journeyman warcaster sucks, and everyone else's is better. I've seen it said by Cygnar, I've seen it said by Menoth, I've seen it said by Retribution, ok... Cryx didn't say theirs sucked, but they hated his Drag ability and liked our Sucker! a LOT better. But it seems like everyone hates their caster (or at least something about their caster) and likes the others better. Everyone seems to like Gastone, and everyone seems worried about putting expensive Jacks with the journeymen.

    What I get out of this, is all of the junior warcasters are probably pretty balanced (except maybe Gastone, but I'll need to read the Mercs board before calling that a done deal), and that we will all need to be careful about not getting them killed. Good call.

  18. #258
    Annihilator Darguth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovnik Tsumi View Post
    ok... Cryx didn't say theirs sucked, but they hated his Drag ability and liked our Sucker! a LOT better.
    Psh, they get Stealth and ARM 17 with Escort, they can pipe down :P

  19. #259
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    Ok so I can finally run two jacks with strakhov

    Strakhov
    spriggan

    Andrei
    beast 09, torch, demolisher take your pick

    Occulation on Andrei, two jacks with move 6 from superiority and recline.

    all of a sudden we get two loaded up heavys flying 13" across the board on feat turn.

    It's great

    There are so many options with our casters with non battle group jack spells.

  20. #260
    Destroyer of Worlds scout's honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovnik Tsumi View Post
    What I get out of this, is all of the junior warcasters are probably pretty balanced (except maybe Gastone, but I'll need to read the Mercs board before calling that a done deal), and that we will all need to be careful about not getting them killed. Good call.
    I've said it before: for me Gastone's clearly the best of the lot - when played in Cygnar.
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  21. #261

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    Ok, the most negative thing I've seen Mercs say about Gastone is this:

    Nice.. we got a good Collosal.. now we give it away.

    We cant have nice things to ourselves!

    Kinda starting to see Mercs as poinless.. might as well play Cygnar.. I can take 3/4 of the units I like now with them.
    So yeah... I guess Gastone wins.

  22. #262
    Destroyer of Worlds ElectricPaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovnik Tsumi View Post
    Ok, the most negative thing I've seen Mercs say about Gastone is this:
    But... but... THAT'S THE POINT OF MERCS!!! Ffs. You can't go and play the "we're mercenaries who can slot into various factions" faction AND THEN COMPLAIN THAT YOUR STUFF SLOTS INTO VARIOUS FACTIONS! It's like playing Khador and complaining that the art is too red! What the heck?
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  23. #263

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    Gastone is the only Jr. that is seemingly designed to engage from range. This is going to make him one of the less risky and therefore most liked of the new Journeymen. Andy on the other hand is a high risk/reward so he will most likely end up being ardently defended by some whilst being derided by others.

    I'm currently in the "this guy looks fun and I can't wait to try him but I don't think he's destined for competitive lists" camp. I'm going to start proxying him soon though so I am reserving judgment for now.

  24. #264
    Destroyer of Worlds Khador247's Avatar
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    Taking Gastone and a Galleon in a Cygnar list is extremely risky. Why? Because if Gastone dies your caster can't re-activate the Galleon. So you've flushed almost half the points in your list down the toilet.
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  25. #265
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darguth View Post
    I'd honestly be a lot less happy if he had that.

    Not only do I think he'd be a lot less versatile (+2 SPD and focus-on-a-stick still has great potential for our less-used shooty jacks) but having ultra-accurate shooting is just not what Khador is supposed to be about.

    This guy, to me, is perfect. I'm so totally stoked.
    I play pSorscha and pVlad, both 2 of the 3 original Khador casters, and both of them make accuracy nearly an afterthought.

    Ultra accurate shooting is EXACTLY what Khador is about!
    Looking forward to Epic Vlad on his Battle Cattle.

  26. #266
    Destroyer of Worlds Mindless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khador247 View Post
    Taking Gastone and a Galleon in a Cygnar list is extremely risky. Why? Because if Gastone dies your caster can't re-activate the Galleon. So you've flushed almost half the points in your list down the toilet.
    Agreed. At least with Conquest, a Koldun Lord or IF Kovnik can take over. Or your caster.

  27. #267

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    I thought Colossals coulnt be marshaled .
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  28. #268
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    Honestly, anyone complaining about other factions taking the galleon and then promptly losing it because of a dead Gastone and an inability to reactivate it because it's not a faction jack...

    well, I can't take them very seriously

  29. #269

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    Killing Gastone isn't going to be as easy as you think... he can sit 8" behind a Galleon with a 5" base putting him about 13" behind the front line. They're also likely to have at least one screening unit and any tricks the actual caster brings. Also keep in mind that Galleon never needs to come to you - he gets to do everything he wants from 12" away. How many credible threats are there to 14/14 with five boxes from 25" away?

    I don't doubt over the course of the game we can get the job done but if they're getting 3-4 turns with galleon running at full focus they've already gotten what they need out of it. They'll also know you're gunning for Gastone so you bet they'll be working ot protect him. Luckily we do have some good tools for getting to him (Outriders, Manhunters, Arcing Fire) but I don't think it is going to be trivially easy to shut down this package.

  30. #270
    Destroyer of Worlds Khador247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugger View Post
    Honestly, anyone complaining about other factions taking the galleon and then promptly losing it because of a dead Gastone and an inability to reactivate it because it's not a faction jack...

    well, I can't take them very seriously
    I didn't complain about other factions being able to take Galleon. Who are you referring to?
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  31. #271
    Destroyer of Worlds Khador247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digilante View Post
    Killing Gastone isn't going to be as easy as you think... he can sit 8" behind a Galleon with a 5" base putting him about 13" behind the front line. They're also likely to have at least one screening unit and any tricks the actual caster brings. Also keep in mind that Galleon never needs to come to you - he gets to do everything he wants from 12" away. How many credible threats are there to 14/14 with five boxes from 25" away?

    I don't doubt over the course of the game we can get the job done but if they're getting 3-4 turns with galleon running at full focus they've already gotten what they need out of it. They'll also know you're gunning for Gastone so you bet they'll be working ot protect him. Luckily we do have some good tools for getting to him (Outriders, Manhunters, Arcing Fire) but I don't think it is going to be trivially easy to shut down this package.
    Just started a separate thread on the subject but I think that Kossites can even be a major threat to certain Journeymen, Gastone in particular.
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  32. #272
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
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    Hey, guess who are great at killing enemy Journeymen?

    Kayazy.

    I mean with eVlad you could send a single Eliminator through a Colossal and into them, and there isn't much they can do to stop it.
    Looking forward to Epic Vlad on his Battle Cattle.

  33. #273

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    Flanking outriders can get the job done too, especially if you've got SnP or multiple sprays to put out. Even if you can't actually get there, the threat of losing your journeyman is enough to force a more passive approach which can make life much easier.

  34. #274
    Destroyer of Worlds Khador247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    Hey, guess who are great at killing enemy Journeymen?

    Kayazy.

    I mean with eVlad you could send a single Eliminator through a Colossal and into them, and there isn't much they can do to stop it.
    Ooooh. Yessss. Yessss. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by h00rah View Post
    Flanking outriders can get the job done too, especially if you've got SnP or multiple sprays to put out. Even if you can't actually get there, the threat of losing your journeyman is enough to force a more passive approach which can make life much easier.
    Another good one.
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  35. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel3901 View Post
    I've been watching these threads, and I'll say the same thing I said in the Menoth forums.

    If you play Cryx or Retribution a lot, watch out for Feedback on the Satyxis Raiders and the Backlash spell on Kaelyssa. Putting a Conquest on him is awesome until they kill him with Feedback in 5 hits.

    Just a heads up! Keep partying.
    Thanks for the heads up.

    I'm going to start abusing this rule I found on my Conquest card called Creeping Barrage. Nobody ever talks about it. Unless I am much mistaken, it looks like it'll answer the door when the Satyxis come a knockin' in this particular circumstance ;P
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  36. #276
    Destroyer of Worlds ElectricPaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacX28 View Post
    I'm going to start abusing this rule I found on my Conquest card called Creeping Barrage. Nobody ever talks about it. Unless I am much mistaken, it looks like it'll answer the door when the Satyxis come a knockin' in this particular circumstance ;P
    Satyxis raiders are immune to blast damage when they bring their captain along with them. Creeping barrage counts as blast damage.
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  37. #277
    Destroyer of Worlds Mindless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaosSpectyr View Post
    I thought Colossals coulnt be marshaled .
    You are correct of course... I'll blame my mistake on the fact that I just woke up and it was 4 AM.

  38. #278
    Destroyer of Worlds Delta57Dash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scout's honor View Post
    I've said it before: for me Gastone's clearly the best of the lot - when played in Cygnar.
    I dunno; he's pretty scary in melee with Flank + Primed/Storm Rager.

    And it's pretty easy to flank with a 4-point Vanguard.

  39. #279
    Destroyer of Worlds scout's honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digilante View Post
    Killing Gastone isn't going to be as easy as you think... he can sit 8" behind a Galleon with a 5" base putting him about 13" behind the front line. They're also likely to have at least one screening unit and any tricks the actual caster brings. Also keep in mind that Galleon never needs to come to you - he gets to do everything he wants from 12" away. How many credible threats are there to 14/14 with five boxes from 25" away?
    There are several casters in Cygnar that'll add Snipe (you'll be adding 6" total to the Galleon's range) and Arcane Shield (which can go on Gastone if you want to be that careful about it) to the package, and for 4 points Gastone can have a Shieldguarding Vanguard buddy to run interference for him. This is really not going to be easy to take out, arguably he's the easiest to keep safe out of all of them while still using him to good effect - notably in Cygnar, with more Snipe casters available than Mercs and with Arcane Shield on a stick.
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  40. #280
    Annihilator Darguth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    I play pSorscha and pVlad, both 2 of the 3 original Khador casters, and both of them make accuracy nearly an afterthought.

    Ultra accurate shooting is EXACTLY what Khador is about!
    No, it's not, and your examples help to prove that point. pSorscha and pVlad do not innately make ranged accuracy better specifically. pVlad just makes almost all of your offensive rolls better, period. pSorscha only increases accuracy through a debuff that also has another multitude of awesome benefits for her.

    The fact that you highlight those two as our "super ranged accuracy" casters showcases that we are not the "super ranged accuracy" faction. They are two of our best for accuracy, but they only get there by utilizing the benefits of effects not innately made just to make ranged accuracy better. They're our best options and they aren't even tailored for it. We can do it alright, but it's not what the faction is about.

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