Exemplar Cinerators: Tactics

[darisus]

Emboldened from the wounds inflicted by the impure, Exemplar Cinerators move ahead of their brothers in arms, the Bastions, to breach enemy ranks with flame and steel. Cinerators channel the agony of their wounds into holy rage and are armed with ancient blades and shields passed down from fallen Knights through the centuries. An unquenchable flame flickers across the blade, blazing white-hot when wielded in battle.

Since I am a fan of the Exemplar Cinerators (or Cinnies for short) and there is no tactica about them yet I figured I would try my hand at this. Bear with me as this is my first tactica. Most people would agree that the Cinerators are a great sculpt and an awesome idea as a good majority of us already love and cherish our Bastions. Having a similar unit with new abilities is great for variety and fun, plus it adds new elements to our troop chooses with another medium based 8 wound infantry.

　
Exemplar Cinerators


Abilities:

• Weapon Master
• Magical Weapon
• Fearless
• Relentless Advance
• Flame Burst　

Strengths:

The first thing that jumps out at me is the Arm 17. Having and Arm 17 combined with their 8 wounds allows them to shrug off blast damage and take direct fire shots from most weapons in the game and hardly even notice. A vast majority of non-warjack non-aoe weapons have a pow range of 10-12, meaning that on average dice rolls your cinnies take no or little damage. Even most heavier weapons have trouble killing them with just one hit as with 8 wounds they need to have a damage total of 25+ to kill off your trooper. This leads into their second key ability which is Relentless Advance (when a model in this unit is damaged by an enemy attack, models in this unit gain +2spd for a round). Relentless Advance is key for helping get your Cinnies up the field faster and increasing their charge range. The +2 spd bumps them up from slow to on par with some of our faster units allowing them to get a bigger threat range. This can be accomplished by either charging further or running 12” into melee range with a target. Once you are in melee with your target either by charging or running they have the standard exemplar weapon master attribute combined with it being a magic weapon. As elite infantry they have a decent Mat 7 which allows you to hit most regular infantry on below average rolls and warjacks even easier. By combining this with a okay pow of 12 most single wound infantry dies to average dice rolls and most warjacks take okay damage on a charge. Cinerators are better infantry killers than ’jack hunters which leads to their last ability which is Flame Burst (when this model boxes an enemy model with this weapon, enemy models within 1” of the boxed model suffer the Fire continuous effect). Flame burst is exception for helping clear out shield walled troops or anytime your opponent has to bunch up his models. This ability helps somewhat mitigate the fact that you only have one attack. It also sometimes lets you go for a lower Def model near a caster or other high Def target and apply that continuous effect without having to make a to-hit roll.

Weaknesses:

Their biggest weakness is their slow spd 4. Speed 4 means that most of the time they are running up the field to engage the enemy on your first 2 turns unless one of them suffers some damage. Some opponents like to not attack the Cinerators and make you trudge up the field, which can be good and bad as it leaves you with an undamaged trooper but also hurts your board control and threat range. Without Relentless Advance Cinerators have one of the lowest non-warjack threat ranges in the game at just 7.5”. Even with it they are at 9.5”, which is just .5” more than the constant threat range of their brothers the Bastions. The lack of reach for the unit also needs to be mention as it limits their ability to threaten a larger area while stationary and can make it harder to get more than a model or 2 on a target (especially smaller bases). Like the Bastions they also have a laughable Def of 11, allowing almost anything to hit them on below average rolls, which is somewhat mitigated by their Arm of 17. Lastly is their lack of attacks per unit. By being a 3/5 man unit compared to most 6/10 regular troop units you give up more attacks for greater survivability, while still paying the same point cost of 5/8. Flame Burst is meant to help with this but canny opponents can get around this easily by spacing. Since you start out with less attacks and can sometimes not count on Flame Burst to help counter this they can become bogged down in melee with well spaced infantry (especially if that infantry has reach).



Warcaster Synergies:

• Kreoss1 - they work decent with Kreoss1 because not only does he have Defender’s Ward to place on them, his feat allows you to help position and guarantee hits to try and spread that Flame Burst around.
• Kreoss2 - Strength of Arms grants them another auto hitting attack helping with a low base attack/unit ratio. Inviolable Resolve lets you up their already great Arm by +2 and Sacrosanct is nice to help them hunt hard targets by baiting with one model and allowing the rest to get in a charge with auto hits.
• High Reclaimer - Some wonderful synergies here. They make excellent targets to arc Ashes to Ashes off of to auto hit nearby enemy models and there low Def means you never have to boost to hit them. Burning Ash also gives them a nice Def bump if they are in the cloud effect by granting them concealment or if in melee the -2 to opponents attack rolls. His feat is also excellent for giving them some added threat range and bringing them back at 8 wounds again.
• Testament of Menoth - not really that great with him. Ashen Veil is nice to again bump their Def. Revive works okay but since they come back at 1 wound they die again easily, but this can let you get Relentless Advance going again. His feat is somewhat negated for them by their lack of speed, low threat range, and medium base, but can be okay if they have Relentless Advance going.
• Severius1 - he has a lot going on to help them out. Defenders Ward, Eye of Menoth, and Death Sentence all work well with him. And if you ever need it you can still use them to arc Ashes to Ashes into enemy models, but with his 8 focus he rarely needs to use this.
• Severius2 - has a few useful spells but not much to help the Cinnies. Holy ward is okay but +2 Def only puts them at 13, the better effect I think is the no spells targeting. Other than that not much here except maybe for Rebuke allowing the Cinnies to get off an initial charge.
• Feora1 - Only thing she offers is Ignite, but she gives that up to everyone, so…
• Feora2 - Again has Ignite. She also has a few non-spell synergies with Caustic Presence to keep their fires from going out and her feat likes fires spread as much as possible, so Flame Burst can help lighting things on fire.
• Harbinger - her passive abilities are great to help all melee-centric troops with Awe and Martyrdom. Although Martyrdom is limited as it doesn’t give them back full wounds. Crusader’s Call is wonderful for the Cinerators as it helps overcome one of their chief weaknesses as it increases their speed. Guided Hand can also help if you want to clear out some high Def troops and make sure you can spread that fire to their buddies.
• Amon - does absolutely nothing for them. I would not recommend them with him as they are too slow to keep up with his main play style.
• Reznik - Another Ignite caster so they get a pow upgrade which can help cracking harder targets. Other that that they are a medium base so they can block LOS to Reznik, giving the added benefit if your opponent does shoot at them to try to get to Reznik their Relentless Advance will kick in.

[darisus]

Other Synergies:

• Hierophant - he can heal d3 off them if they are close enough.
• The Covenant - does what he does for everyone, which he does so well so no big surprise here
• Gravus - Brother?s Keeper is not to bad for them and he can take their souls.
• Reclaimer - same as everyone he likes their souls
• First Mate Hawk - Not so much synergizes with them as she likes one near for Sucker!
• Rhupert - +1 Def doesn?t help them that much, but Pathfinder can be a lifesaver to help with getting them through terrain with their slow spd.
• Orin Midwinter - they can be good targets to arc his lightning off of to higher def models if they are not bunched up.
• Anastasia - Espionage works okay for them if they have Relentless Advance going otherwise unless they are in close they will fall short of a target.

Cinerator Tactics:

Here are a few of the strategies I have personal used with them in games. I would like others to freely add what they have found that works as I have by no means played them enough (15 or so times with various casters) and I think their uses are still being discovered.

1. Shield Wall Breakers - This being their fluff hinted specialty they actually do it quite well. High Arm with weapon master and a nice on death effect (Flame Burst) really does let they decimate a shield wall. Flame Burst shows it true power only when your opponent bunches up, which shield wall and things like defensive line make them do, so use your Cinerators to make them pay for bringing these units and break their line.
2. Big Target - No Target Syndrome - The do I hit them or do I leave them alone and let them trundle up the field mentality it forces on your opponent is not a strategy you can choose but one you can take advantage of. If your opponent decides to try and wipe them out and he fails (Arm 17 and 8 wounds makes this really hard to do without a serious commitment of resources). You get to now make your slow melee unit a speedier melee unit and variable threat ranges allow you to catch your opponent off guard or just run them up into combat with something and bash it next turn. If he leaves them alone he is allowing a hard hitting survivable melee unit come into the battle on a second wave and then has to face the prospect of trying to dig them out (really hard to do at full health in less than 2 turns) or take free strikes going around their medium bases to get at your caster.
3. Friendly Fire - I find they are one of the best targets for some of our chaining spell attacks. The low base def becomes an advantage for you as you don?t have to boost to hit them (especially with a back strike bonus) and you get your auto-hitting chain attacks on high def models. I have personally had this tactic work really well and catch alot of opponents by surprise as my Cinny takes the initial hit and half his super high Def unit bites the dust. Most of these chaining attacks have a low base pow so your Cinerator will most likely survive because of his high Arm and 8 wounds. It also lets you extend the range of these spells by running your Cinerator up close and using him as the point of origin for the arcs instead of your opponents trooper. It can also work for your aoe?s if your opponent bunches his troops around trying to kill off your Cinnies. It can also be useful in caster kills to have a target that is easy to hit. I have gotten a few of these by running a Relentless Advanced Cinerator up next to a caster and pounding him with my own aoe?s to boost blast damage on my opponents caster.
4. All Alone ?Please Don?t Kill Me.? - If you stagger your Cinerators out so your opponent can only charge one or 2 at a time I find that most of the time this allows the others in the unit to get a great countercharge off and wreck whatever killed or hurt your lone ?bait? trooper. Try running them with 2 up front and the others spread out 4 or more inches to the sides and back of the lead units. Most of the time your opponent just can?t resist taking out those lead elements. If he does you get your speed boost and a pow 12 weapon master charge to destroy his extended models. If he doesn?t he may have left himself open to a regular charge by the lead elements and a second wave by the rear rank troopers.
5. Cover-fire What Cover-fire - with the proliferation of cove fire and other damage on enter effects in the game, it is nice to have a unit that can virtually ignore them. Having high Arm and multi-wounds means walking into one of those templates (as most are pow 10-12) won?t kill off your Cinerators even on max damage rolls. Most people try to avoid having their troops take damage so if you by not having to worry about the damage can ignore a key board controlling strategy of your opponent you can gain an upper hand. I once charged my Cinnies right through my opponents covering-fire template to get at his unit he though would be protected behind it and laughed when he only put a few points damage on my guys while his were almost wiped out. Taking away your opponents strategies is just another form of denial so it should be nothing new for you to adjust your thinking to say ?I can take the hit and give him 2 times that back?.

Posts and comments welcome as well as others thoughts on what I can add in to improve this write-up?
- Darisus -
　

[darisus]

6. Don't Shoot me if you can't Kill me - Cinerators can be used to tye up range units with thier speed boost and medium base eating up board space. Expensive enemy shooting units that can't close the deal on Cinerators and finish off an entire squad and are within their 12.5 inch threat range will then be tyed up in melee with a medium base high arm multi-wound model. As most pure range units have low pow melee abilities your Cinerators should be safe from retalitaion even if they are hit by those attacks as arm 17 can absorb pow 8-10 melee shots really well. Hybrid units may pose more of a problem but this still means a turn wasted trying to kill off an 8 wound arm 17 model, which hopefully you are engaging them with so they cannot get a charge bonus. Any attempts to kill off Cinerators with more then one model from the unit will then set them up for a return flameburst strike if they cannot finish them off. Without a serious commitment of firepower to take them out Cinerators can be a large threat to range units as even just one can tye up a large portion of the unit. Meaning, if your opponent doesn't dedicate enough fire support to taking them out you should have a significant advantage on following turns as that range unit will now be occupied in melee and less of a threat to your army.

[Soylent]

I like them, much more so than Bastions which I can't stand.

[Silverstar843]

Very insightful, I may have to give them a shot, but at the moment love the Bastions.

Two things though.
1) You mentioned Sacrosanct to hunt jacks. Sacrosanct doesn't effect them. It only knocks down non-warcaster/lock warriors.
2) Testament's Revive would seem to work nicely with them in conjunction with his feat. If you can revive one after a turn where some died, the unit is guarenteed the speed buff. You bring them back, chaining one 3" off the other to the extent of his control area, feat, then charge the 9 inches with them. I do this with the Bastions all the time and the speed buff with the extra .5 of an inch might help out.

[dewey]

Nice write up.

The Bastions have a 9 inch threat range, they have reach. I'll take the bastions everytime over this unit. I can't see putting this in any of my lists. Not to mention, Bastions just don't die most of the time. I love these models, to bad I just can't see putting them in any of my lists.

[SnakeEyes]

Yeah, it's too bad. The models are bad @ss.

[FiresOfMenoth]

id be tempted to run them infront of bastians as an ablative wall there there to block llos and such for sucessive waves, if they make it to combat great have them tie up a ranged unit while everthying else pours in.

my take on em anyways

[baronvonchaos]

Nice write-up! Well done Darisus.

I like the idea that the Cinerators are the troops clearing awesomeness at current. I've said it before that I'm already getting some to add in my eFeora list to light things on fire and not kill it. I would only attack as few people as needed. Feat. Caustic presence will kill them (small based troopers) next turn. Woot! Weapon masters can take down your heavy targets and medium targets and the flame burst can take down troops. Very versatile as a unit. The Def/ARM still proves to be laughable. Understandable, but laughable.
　
Someone was talking about Rhupert not being that great. Heh. They get plinked once and you throw Durge of the Mists on them. They get all misty and roar with a charge that out distances their normal movement. +1Def is great. Def 12 is at least low average. Terror is just fun... . Nothing like charging the front lines and having them all panic and lose a turn. Not only will they all be engaged with a unit of angry medium bases, but the ones that aren't dead are now on fire and they're skipping their next turn. I'm going to need more fire tokens. Pathfinder is invaluable with them, though I'd take the +1 Def. Frees up Defenders Ward for the frontline unit (usually TFG for me).

Looking forward to this unit.

[Loveless]

I love these guys for the decision they force on your opponent. I'll be getting them...mostly for funzies.

[cryptomancer]

I'm still optimistic. Why? Because they're a generalist Exemplar unit. They're just as effective against troopermobs as hard targets. No other Exemplar unit (with the possible exception of Vengers, if you can make some nice Impact Attack rolls), can mash infantry just as well as Warjacks.

The nice high ARM is another bonus, especially for Warcasters who have no ARM buffs. Reznik or Feora might want to take Exemplars for a damage doling unit, but at ARM:16, Bastions are more vulnerable to anti-infantry than their shield-wielding cousins.

-Crypto

[Lanz]

I'll buy em just because they are a sword and shield model.

I likez sword and shield. <3

[PG_Kaptajn Congoboy]

I'll proxy them a few times too see if I can get any useful mileage out of them. Then we'll see. Eventually, even if I cannot, I think I'll be getting them (since, after all, I have every other Menoth model PP has ever put out) but that'll be after the rest of the Exemplar horde has been repainted.

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

I like them. I'll buy them and field a mostly medium based exemplar list. Reznik will be very safe that way.

[dicegod]

Bastions also have blessed weapons which makes a big difference against that arcane sheilded Iron Clad. It is also possible to fit more than 3 bastions around a target, not like cinerators.

[paradox]

Ya know, looking at the swords again, it's reckoner syndrome all over. Those swords are almost as tall as they are! And they are some beefy med based models!

At some point they'll have to get a reach errata! LOL!

[Undone]

These guys should have a P+S 10 sheild They would then be good enough to feild.

[Soulblighter]

If they had Defensive Line theyd be fine. Its weaksauce that they have those massive shields and only get +1 ARM from them.

[darisus]

Giving my tactics article a bump cause the tier lists are out and people want to know what they do.

[Marius]

Plus hwoever was doing the canon hasn't added any new stuff in a month. Think we can get someone else to take it over or sticky the many tactics articles that are going past the first page?

The last tactics articles were Blessing and the Revenger that i did last week, they were added to the Cannon the day after i posted them. Rikash is completely up to date with it, all of the articles are up there and it rarely takes him more than a couple of days to add new ones.

[darisus]

probably just missed it...

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

I can definitely see myself fielding them with Vindictus a lot. True Path and Relentless Advance = Movement 8 with on a normal advance. Movement 11 on a charge. With that going on, you can just barely out do the Bastions as far as threat range goes by 1/2".

[jandrese]

I don't see where True Path really matters in that comparison, they always have the 0.5" threat range advantage over Bastions IFF they're damaged on the previous turn. If they're not damaged, then the Bastions out-threat them by 1.5".

[IRSMARTLIKEROCK]

The problem with giving them reach is that they would replace Bastions.

[Undone]

The problem with giving them reach is that they would replace Bastions.

No... they would not. Bastions have sanguine bond which is 10x better than 1 arm and the ability on the cinerators. I guess I am just sad they dont have a sheild/buckler and a P+S 9-10 attack to go with it, and its sad because I think the models look like they were made from 110% pure win. I understand a Arm 19 8 wound model might be too much but really 18 arm 8 wound isnt THAT bad and is definitely different than the bastions and a significant improvement in many situations, in addition to being way better with defenders ward.

Its possible the cinerators being shelved for me is more a symptom of the bastions being awesome than the cinerators being average. They are still REALLY good and if you want to field a 3rd unit of bastions they sure fit the bill pretty closely sadly though that means your feilding 24 points of medium models X.X which cant possibly end well.

[IRSMARTLIKEROCK]

Maybe even give them something weird like a special action where they can slam d3" with their shields. There's just not enough of a difference where I'd take Cinerators over Bastions.

[Silverstar843]

Giving my tactics article a bump cause the tier lists are out and people want to know what they do. Plus hwoever was doing the canon hasn't added any new stuff in a month. Think we can get someone else to take it over or sticky the many tactics articles that are going past the first page?

they added my Dervish article.

SHAMELESS PLUG! GO READ!

I've found Cinnerators to be almost exact opposites of the Bastions. Bastions seem to work best for me in second rank, where their low threat range can come up. Cinnerators want to be in first line. Why? Well, if all you do is run them forward every turn, the opponent has to deal with them. Either they shoot them, most likely fail to kill them, and then make the unit faster, or find some way to annoy them. With the latter, if you tie them up with infantry, they will most likely be bogged down for one turn and the infantry are burning to death now. If you send a jack over to deal with them, you maybe kill 2, and then have to soak 3 pow 11 weaponsmaster charges.

[Soulblighter]

I dont think either unit wants to be first line. Their poor DEF makes them fire magnets, they get hit directly by every attack, and their ARM and wounds, while great, still arnt enough to let them weather the majority of your opponent's ranged attacks. Not in the same way that TFG with Iron Zeal can at least.

[IRSMARTLIKEROCK]

TFG get away with being first line from Def 13 base + set defense. Any def buff will boost them to nigh unreachable by average troops with out a boost of their own.

[jandrese]

I find most people get a sudden appreciation of the TFG when they're charged by something nasty (Doomreavers for instance) and discover that even elite troopers need an 8 to hit with the charge attack. It's really impressive when you have them as the vanguard against a McThrall swarm, and the McThralls charge in only to discover that they need a 10 to hit. The followup hit only needs an 8, but has a somewhat difficult time punching through a shieldwall (about 50/50 IIRC). If you put Defenders Ward on the TFG, they become nearly immune to the McThralls.

Try the same with the Cinerators or Bastions and you end up with a bunch of dead medium based troops. P+S 15 charges rip right through ARM 16 and 17. Even if they do live, they're in very bad shape afterward. Bastions with Doomreavers is a better trade, except that distributing all of the damage from those weaponmaster attacks quickly burns up all of your boxes, and then suddenly you have a Doomreaver making Berzerk attacks against a bunch of DEF 11 single wound models.

[Mod_MC]

I'll run HR and a unit of bastions and cinnies. The bastions will protect a single Cinerator and HR, with the other 4 cinnies in front blocking the bastions. Move everything into the enemy to get as close as possible, using smoke to protect against ranged attacks. Once in combat, let the front 4 Cinnies die, this will take attention off the bastions. The idea is if you are close enough, you can pop HR feat to bring the cinnies back behind the enemy lines (within CMD range of the lone protected cinnie) and charge caster and stuff. The bastions will be around to mop up the front ranks.

It will take some fancy manoeuvrings for medium bases, but I think it'is solid for the most part.

Edit: Of course, the same thing can be done using two units of bastions, but variety is the spice of life

[darisus]

I have been using them to great effect with the sevy/orin combo... You run some cinnies up near front lines and arc your ashes to ashes and orins lightning into your opponrnts lines. Not only are they pretty much auto hits with bacstrike you don't usually scratch your cinnies that much. Defenders ward puts them on 19 arm like a heavy, and eye makes them pow 13 wm at mat 8. I find psevy runs them better than bastions.

[Ultimate]

They should have had Sanguine Blood too and be a bit more hitty... and cosst a little bit more..

Then you would see people use both. Now they just not worth it over Bastion, who are great !

[jandrese]

Battle Driven would have been a nice addition. At least then they'd be better at taking down heavy jacks than the Bastions. Plus, getting +2 ARM would make them pretty survivable.

[Keiichiro]

I like the fact that we aren't getting cookie-cutter units. They're similar, but just different enough that they get different target priorities.

The bastions are damage absorbers, while the cinerators are B2B decimators.

Against IFP, TFG, Dawnguard... or anything with defensive line or shield wall, I'd much rather have the cinerator's slash-and-burn for clear-cutting the entire unit with one round of attacks than poke-and-pray with the bastions.

[IRSMARTLIKEROCK]

But the slash-and-burn you are talking about is also a poke-and-pray, since fire can go out. And requires the enemy models to be close to each other. After an enemy unit charges seems like the most opportune time to hit them with Cinerators.

[brotherscott]

Nice write up, well thought out and thorough.

Instead of calling them "Cinnies" I call them "Cinners".

I don't understand the hate towards Cinerators. They have a battlefield role, and are quite capable.

When Privateer released the teaser, I read the fluffy part, and drooled at the models. When I read the stats, I saw their purpose.

They lead the Bastions into battle.

For the same points cost.

Regardless of 'caster (yes, I know some 'casters will make them better/ harder to kill), they wall up in front of the Bastions and take the hit, and walk faster. An opponent does not want the Cinerators getting to their front lines, much less healthy Bastions getting the charge off and sticking around for a turn or two.

Bastions and Cinerators are designed to work in tandem.

For those that don't like them and think Bastions are 'better', try them out a few times. TheoryMachine does not count.

I will be getting a second unit of each.

[Andross]

I've found that the Cinerators are much more effective for the manner that I use medium based troopers. As a matter of fact, I don't even own a unit of Bastions due to the abysmal performance I get out of them every time I proxy them. Even in Mk. 1, they were sub-par on the table for me. On the other hand, Cinerators have always gone in and torn things apart for me when I give them the charge order. Now, part of this problem is dice, my dice hate me and seem to have a special hatred of Bastions. To date I've killed three models with Bastions in Mk. 2. That's after using them in proxy across eight or nine game, and in every game they did *get* to the enemy, where they promptly failed to hit anything. On one occasion they failed to kill a single trencher, and died in less than one turn to the trenchers. In melee.

Cinerators I plan on picking up a second box of in the future, simply because with a stacking of Vindictus and Harby in the larger games I like to play, the idea of charging 13" with a PoW: 12 weapon master makes me giggle. Especially when my opponent decides that taking pot shots at the Cinerators early in the game when the +2 speed won't hurt as much discovers that I can stack movement buffs up to get them over to his front line troopers much faster than he supposed.

[bamburn]

To date I've killed three models with Bastions in Mk. 2.

I am pro-Bastion, but after reading your post, it has dawned on me that I really don't kill anything with my Bastions either. For me they are a tarpit unit that are way too dangerous for my opponent to ignore, and pretty resiliant at blocking charge lanes to my valuable/vulnerable models (read warcasters), and cannot be trampled over like TFG. I think Bastions will still fill this role better than Cinners (good call brotherscott) due to Saguine Bond, but I am curious if Cinners can deliver more of an offensive punch for me.

[GTDemon777]

i dont see this mentioned, but Cinnies are GREAT at shutting down ranged units. Cinerators run up, enemies-lets say long gunners-shoot, cinerators again but faster and (hopefully) get in their face. the enemy unit cant kill them since they only have puny swords and either leave that unit to die or waste resources killing them