Hep meh! How do *you* win as Protectorate?

[squidstudios]

So, I've been playing with my battlebox for over a year, and have only in the last few months been expanding into larger point games. I was pretty darn good with my box, but now I'm finding myself struggling to assemble lists that synergize. Frankly, I been losin', and I don' wanna lose no more. I'm familiar with Kreoss, but can't seem to build an effective army around him, and I've also dabbled with Feora and the High Reclaimer. I have been effective with all three at various points...just not effective *enough*...

Here's what I'd like to know: How do YOU win with ye olde Prot'O'Men'? What caster do you prefer and why? What is your general strategy for forming a list around that caster, and what's your general strategy for executing a victory? I have a good understanding of the various models and stats, just not much experience with the more advanced mechanics of the game.

Aaand if you don't generally win, then I'd prefer not to hear from you--I really would rather see tried and true tactics. Theorycrafters apply thy trades elsewhere. No offense.

[gdaybloke]

Personally, I've wracked up more wins with pSeverius than anything else. Arcing Ashes To Ashes through Blessing of Vengeance? Boostable pow12's on up to half a dozen targets for 3FOC (if I have a heirophant)? Yes please.

I don't care how high your DEF is, if you're standing near anything with a a DEF less than 16 I'm hitting it on average rolls and arcing from there.

[darisus]

SUPPORT your jacks. Playing the right support models for your jacks is key to winning as menoth. I don't think i make a list without at least a min chior and vassal. With MK2 i find myself brining 2+ heavys to most games also. Vanquisher and Reckoner are great heavys to have as both synergize well with support. Recently i have been using the sunburst to great effect as most people still ignore it thanks to it being useless in MK1, but with the change it is quite a usefull piece with a great range and AOE. One of my personal favorite units is Daugthers of the Flame and they have become a great unit with the changes and synergize well with the Feoras.

[squidstudios]

SUPPORT your jacks. Playing the right support models for your jacks is key to winning as menoth. I don't think i make a list without at least a min chior and vassal. With MK2 i find myself brining 2+ heavys to most games also. Vanquisher and Reckoner are great heavys to have as both synergize well with support. Recently i have been using the sunburst to great effect as most people still ignore it thanks to it being useless in MK1, but with the change it is quite a usefull piece with a great range and AOE. One of my personal favorite units is Daugthers of the Flame and they have become a great unit with the changes and synergize well with the Feoras.

I tried this, but didn't execute properly. Full choir, 2x vassal, reclaimer, Blessing o' V, Reckoner, Vanquisher. The two heavies got sacked by Legion Angels quickly, and left Kreoss without much functional offense.

@Darisus, how do you get the Daughters to their target(s) now that Stealth is gone? I'd really like to get that unit, but (as usual) can't see how I'd employ them well.

@gdaybloke, thanks for the great tip! I just finished painting Severius and am eager to try him out for serious. Noob Q: what does the 'p' in 'pSeverius' mean?

[spoole75]

The Avatar. All day, everyday. More than worth his points. Heavy hitter and survivable. Run him out in the flats away from your battle group, preferably with a solo to back him up. This splits your opponent into two fronts.

Too many times an opponent just throws all he can straight at your caster because that's what is going to win for him. Using the Avatar he will have to split up his units to deal with both threats and you can have room to out maneuver him.

As far as casters go I prefer eKreoss in MK2. His feat turn if done right is monstrous.


BTW: pCaster means prime (not epic), eCaster means epic.

[Bastion5]

[QUOTE=spoole75;25838]The Avatar. All day, everyday. More than worth
As far as casters go I prefer eKreoss in MK2. His feat turn if done right is monstrous.

his feat with daughters is just sadistic, if you can get 6 daughters around a a warcaster, then pop eKreoss feat, you can say with great excitement......take 18 points of damage.....INSANE!!!

[darisus]

@Darisus, how do you get the Daughters to their target(s) now that Stealth is gone? I'd really like to get that unit, but (as usual) can't see how I'd employ them well.

Run them behind a wall of bastions or TFG, then when you want them to charge leave some cracks in your wall to get LOS and charge through your models or your opponents. I once had them charge through an opponets unit of champions to get to the fellcaller behind them.


Acrobatics -

This model can advance through other models if it has enough movement to move completely past their bases.
This model cannot be targeted by free strikes. This model ignores intervening models when declaring its charge target.

This ability is so good on them with the def 15, they can just keep charging through your opponents army till you can get to a caster. The only thing that they suck against is blast damage from AOE's.

[Forums lol]

The "p" is for "Prime". It's also used for the original versions of casters that weren't even in Prime, but it kind of stuck to differentiate them from their epic version.

As for me, lately I've been all over the Harbinger. She really does everything I want for the way I play my lists. For the rest, I've been running Choir, double Vassal, Covenant, and 3 Heavies as the core of the list. Vanquisher, Avatar and a Reckoner or second Vanquisher have been working great. I'm in the process of finding the right troops and solos to fill my remaining points, so the third jack is changing depending on if I need more anti-jack or anti-troop. I think in the end I'll have to wait and see, until our new models come out. A unit or weapon attachment could make one of our units just what I need, or maybe the Cinerators will fill a niche.

Kinda rambled there, but basically I think our strength is in our Heavy Jacks. I can't imagine running anyone but Amon with less than 2, and I'd at least try 3 with most of them. I agree with spoole that the Avatar is fantastic, and I'd highly recommend taking a Vanquisher in pretty much every list.

Edit: Also you don't even have to leave a crack for your Daughters to get line of sighr, as they ignore it when they charge.

[Okashii]

Use your enemy troops

play eSeverius!

I have killed more casters with impudent heathens than with my own troops with him!

Oh how I love yee, old man!

and taking control of the Khador Great Bears is more fun than it should be allowed in a game of metal miniatures.

[Seon]

Use your enemy troops

play eSeverius!

I have killed more casters with impudent heathens than with my own troops with him!

Oh how I love yee, old man!

and taking control of the Khador Great Bears is more fun than it should be allowed in a game of metal miniatures.

you cant take control of the Great bears they are characters lol.

the point is to have fun wether you win or lose. But the only way to win as menoth is set the opposing warcaster on fire.
Kills eCaine all the way to karchev! (double 6 on fire damage roll ftw ;D)

Fire is your friend

[Okashii]

you cant take control of the Great bears they are characters lol.

the point is to have fun wether you win or lose. But the only way to win as menoth is set the opposing warcaster on fire.
Kills eCaine all the way to karchev! (double 6 on fire damage roll ftw ;D)

Fire is your friend

I hate you

Deeply

[Jophiel]

I tried this, but didn't execute properly. Full choir, 2x vassal, reclaimer, Blessing o' V, Reckoner, Vanquisher. The two heavies got sacked by Legion Angels quickly, and left Kreoss without much functional offense.

There are a few keys to running this type of list properly. You want to have your choir about 6"-8" back from your 'jack line. So, your choir moves up, does its thing followed by your 'jacks moving up. This keeps your choir safe from sprays and AOEs targeting your 'jacks.

The other thing this formation does for you is that it gives your 'jacks some room to fall back via enliven, which brings me to the next key element of this formation. The vassals should be using enliven on your heavy 'jacks every turn. Menoth is almost never going to get the first charge on an opposing front so, you need to plan accordingly.

Taking an extra shot with that vanqs big flaming cannon will be tempting but it will probably just get your 'jack killed (the rng of the cannon is within most models charge range.)

I'll use those angels as an example. You will almost never get a charge off on these things. With enliven up you would have taken one charge attack (a very nasty one), backed up 5" and then bam two dead angels on your next turn. And angels are probably a worst case scenario since their initial attack is so powerfull.

Just keep your guard up, protect your caster, and don't get cute until you're ready to go all in.

[Soylent]

Helps to know some of the lists you've run. It may not be so much what you use but how you use it.

[squidstudios]

The most fun I had of late was my first attempt with the High Reclaimer. I lost, but just seeing things clicking together was a beautiful sight. I had a full unit of TFG + UA, another small unit of TFG, small choir, Vanquisher, Devout, Dervish. 25pts. Being my first time playing any reclaiming model, I screwed up my turn order and let my big TFG get hosed without the ability to reclaim them. (Yeah, it was really stupid.) Despite that, I learned that I could have had 11 focus from that on my next turn, even after the TFG did a number on Thunderhead and some other Cyg jack. It would have been a glorious thing. Instead it was silly, and lost me the game. Vanq still made a nice showing, iirc. Sorry, this game was awhile ago and I don't remember most of the details other than getting smoked almost singlehandedly by Thunderhead. And missing out on 11 soul tokens because I was just barely out of range...

[mobiusdeep]

In most any list I play now, I almost always include a full unit of TFG plus their UA and a unit of daughters to back them up. The daughters are so much dumb fun, and will usually last longer than the TFG

Daughters are also amazing with Idrians. Makes for a very up-front army that I've had some success with using Testament (Ashen veil on the Idrians for 2 DEF 15 units).

As far as jacks, I almost always include at least one Vanquisher with a vassal every game. Just too useful not to. Beyond that, it all depends on the caster. If Severius, 2 arc nods. If Reznik, Avatar, etc. It's not too hard to look at your caster's spell list and see what he can improve. If you really want to synergize with your units, try to improve abilities that are already good. For example, casting Ashen Veil (essentially +2 def) on a Vanquisher is a complete waste. Def 12 is almost as easy to hit as def 10. Yet, on a unit of Daughters....Get the idea?

[Soylent]

In the HR list I feel you need hard hitting troops like KE or Bastions. I'd also drop the two lights for a second heavy as 3 jacks can be very tough for the HR to run, especially early game. Another Vanquisher or a Castigator combusting just behind your smoke screen.

[zombie-a-go-go]

Come to YottaQuest in Cincinnati Wednesday nights - there's a Protectorate player there who'll show you the ropes something fierce. :P

[squidstudios]

Come to YottaQuest in Cincinnati Wednesday nights - there's a Protectorate player there who'll show you the ropes something fierce. :P

Heh, Cinci is 2.5 hours away! I have a friend here who hails from there, however, so maybe the fates will conspire to allow that guy to hand my butt to me someday.

I don't have enough experience yet with PoM heavy hitting units. Odd as it sounds, I don't own the Knights Exemplar. I have the KEE, but am waiting to paint them up before debuting them on the table. Would they fit the heavy hitter bill?