Daughters of the Flame... Unstoppable!?

[Seon]

So i have my DotF, pSevvy

now i have a def 17 arm 14 Daughter unit ready to run the 1st turn. (for tangling up ranged units/ being a general nuisence)

Anyway to make them more powerful then this? its too early in the morning to think

maybe like run anastasia di-bray with them so they can do espionage the 2nd turn and get into vital points? of course would take alot of thought but possible?

just made a mistake.. reading rhupets card several times.. He now just has to be within 8 inches to sing the song, But it will stay in affect even if they leave his command?

cant really see much else you can add too them, other then like first mate hawk for extra Acrobatic fun

what do you think?

[Forums lol]

They're good now, for sure. Any +2 DEF buff will go a long way on them. Also, yes, I beleive you keep Rhupert's effect if you leave his command. Giving them another +1 DEF can't hurt, and Terror is great for running to engage ranged units.

[Snake Eyes]

Yeah, I'm in love with the Mk. II Daughters. I would say that over about 8 games playing with them recently I'm continually amazed at how much of an absolute nuisance they are to my opponents. That base DEF 15 just allows them to stick around forever, even without a DEF buff, and SPD 7 with Acrobatics is incredible.

I run them on flank for one or two turns and then just make a bee line into the heart of my opponent's army. I tie up things and hopefully get a couple charges in.
I heard about this tactic in Mk. I but I don't know if they got that better in Mk. II or if the meta changed to remove more counters to them or if I just hadn't seen the light in Mk. I.

I've played them the most with eKreoss, who doesn't have a DEF buff, but does have that feat and they were beautiful in obliterating infantry units. Even killed a warcaster once but not with the massed Anatomical Precicision attacks feat trick. (Although, I've really been trying for that.)

Last game I played, I used them as living spell buffs for my entire army. The Testament cast Ashen Veil on them and Rupert was their unofficial UA for DEF 18 Reviveable Daughters that gave everything around them an effective +2 DEF. Acrobats allows them to intersperse themselves amongst your army to spread the love.

So we can easily get DEF 18 Daughters easily and on a regular basis with most of our casters. I think they are likely best with "fire and forget" spells buffs so that the Daughters can use their speed to flank. So these casters would shine the best with them:
Kreoss1
Kreoss2
Sevvie1
Sevvie2
Testament

The High Reclaimer and Harbinger can both provide 10" effective DEF buffs and I think that it still effective, too. The Daughters could actually be front line buffer units with both casters. Crazy. The Reclaimer has high smoke cloud anyways and the Harbinger can Matyr any Daughter that actually ends up getting hit.

And remember that the Piper can run and do his songs so the Piper can easily act as a UA for the Daughters to give them DEF 18/Terror or Pathfinder when necessary.

[jandrese]

Yeah, they're pretty good now. The only caveat is that they are not fearless, don't have particularly high CMD, and tend to run ahead of the commanders in your army. Rhupert can negate a failed CMD check now though, so it's not a huge problem. Or, if you're running eKreoss you can toss Inviolable Resolve on them if they fail a check.

[lastspartacus]

Daughters are pretty cool, but I miss them having stealth, i really do.
I can see how def17 would help alot to negate that though. They fill a niche menoth otherwise does not have, and I totally love the fluff.

Also Seon, the thread title made me hope for some kind of work on a Protectorate anime.

[Soylent]

Unstoppable until you play Cryx.

Seriously though, they're a great little unit with the right support, and now with Hordes Mk2 here they're even better.

[Seon]

And remember that the Piper can run and do his songs so the Piper can easily act as a UA for the Daughters to give them DEF 18/Terror or Pathfinder when necessary.

he can run and do it, thats even better! lol i was using him and still thought he had 3'' song range XD. so that makes it quite fearful :P.

i have been using them with my generally favorite casters eFeora/eKreoss. without the super Def they die quicker then i would hope. primarily due to insane rolling by my khador friend.
although the 18 auto-killing attacks on eKreoss feat turn is glorious

when i get around to buying/proxy di'bray i shall get to test out my original plan. probably more difficult to pull off, even worse as ive never used her, but it has Potential!
they are definatly worth the 5 points even if it is to make your opponent waste his entire turn killing 1 DotF

Maybe running a list of 2 units of them. And some vengers, all the Spd 7 solos (<3 monks). then use the Harby zerg rush, where she pops her feat first turn through charging insane lengths and reachs the enemies deployment zone with her control area. So your entire army is in charge range next turn. though they could just move back... Oh well. It could be fun ^_^

[jandrese]

Doing a Sing then Run on Rhupert doesn't seem that useful to me since the target unit has to be in range when he sings, meaning it would only be useful for running away.

[Snake Eyes]

Maybe running a list of 2 units of them.

I've been running two units of Daughters with eKreoss. They've been the MVP's. Haven't had huge problems with survivability. Maybe lucky. But I also think a major factor is that you have to run them on the flanks and then sweep them in on something like turn 3 at the soonest. If they are on the flanks, and that even means the board edge type flank, then your opponent has to very well likely commit more points to taking them out then the Daughters are worth. Then the Daughters just run 14" past those models anyways.

[Gen_eV]

Doing a Sing then Run on Rhupert doesn't seem that useful to me since the target unit has to be in range when he sings, meaning it would only be useful for running away.

Couldn't you sing, run through a gap between the Daughters to where they're going to end up, and then activate the unit?

[Snake Eyes]

Doing a Sing then Run on Rhupert doesn't seem that useful to me since the target unit has to be in range when he sings, meaning it would only be useful for running away.

You can sing at any point during the run.

[lastspartacus]

Is that right? Irrelevant usually but I thought the run needed to be completed and happened immediately.

[jandrese]

Really? I didn't think you could interrupt movement once you started it unless it's something like making impact attacks.

[Bruan]

I'll have to chime in with my love for the daughters. 2 daughters shredded 5 stormblades and a squire in one turn thanks to the Grand Exemplar's feat!

[sanj]

they are definatly worth the 5 points even if it is to make your opponent waste his entire turn killing 1 DotF

Shut up!

She didn't even die...

[Snake Eyes]

Really? I didn't think you could interrupt movement once you started it unless it's something like making impact attacks.

I think you're probably right. I have a question in the Rules forum about it.

I guess that would mean that the Idrian Guide could never run and benefit from Go To Ground. That blows.

[Oilslick]

I think you're probably right. I have a question in the Rules forum about it.

I guess that would mean that the Idrian Guide could never run and benefit from Go To Ground. That blows.

The guide can if he doesn't move, with new formation rules its not that bad (he's just 9 inches away from the cheiftan)

Back on topic. Rupert can act as a UA to daughters. He's CMD 8 so he can pipe and run first turn, the daughters can run, and if anyone stayed back in the slightest he can do it again. 6" from AD, 14" run - 8" CMD - 12" run = 0 however you must account for base sizes. (If there are any chemists out there you may be reminded of the ideal gas law)

[mobiusdeep]

Just to add in a bit. I had one unit of Daughters tie up/decimate a full unit of the Mage Hunter Strike Force recently, and I've taken at least one unit in every army ever since.

I've found it incredibly effective to hold them behind Idrians, Errants, or a running TFG wall. Most of my opponents really regret charging a unit backed by the Daughters. With the Harbinger, Guided Hand goes a looooong way towards hitting pesky DEF 13 infantry, and the Testament makes them sick.

No doubt, I have more real fun playing the daughters than any other infantry unit we have.

[darisus]

I love the daughters too. Since they are all widows maybe one will marry me. Of course that means i have to leave my current wife but she does not share my passion for the roasting of non-believers...so to the fires with her and bring on some widows.