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  1. #1

    Default KGB: The Old Witch and Scrapjack

    Front of card
    Old Witch
    SPD - Below average
    STR- Average
    MAT - Average
    RAT - Very bad
    DEF - Average
    ARM - Below average
    Health - Low
    FOCUS - Average
    WJ Points - Possibly the lowest in the game

    Pathfinder,
    2x Iron Claws, 0.5" range, Damage type: Magical, slighty above average P&S

    Back of card
    Apparition - 2" place during Maintenence
    Field Martial: Apparition - As above but for her battlegroup
    Great Power - Upkeep a spell for free
    Prowl - Stealth in clouds and forests.
    Soul Taker: Cull Soul - Steal the soul of living, killed enemies within 2" then turn them into focus.

    Spells
    Avatar Of Slaughter - [i]Upkeep[/iTarget either herself of Scrapjack. MAT and STR buff, and gain Overtake and Berserk

    Gallows - OffensiveAverage POW, target hit is dragged d6" towards the point of origin

    Iron Flesh - Upkeep Friend faction warrior model/unit gets an ARM buff and immunity to blast damage.

    Murder Of Crows - Upkeep Place a 5" cloud AoE completly within her control area. Enemy models entering or ending their activation take a low POW hit.

    Unseen Path - Teleport Old Witch to Scrapjack or Scrapjack to Old Witch completly within 2"

    Weald Secrets - Friendly faction model/unit gains Pathfinder and Hunter (ignore concealment and cover)

    Feat
    Models advancing and ending their movement (except to chanhe facing) within Old Witch's control area suffer a strong POW hit. Warrior models that take damage are knocked down. Emphasis mine. It means models can walk out of her control range and be fine. They can also forfeit movement and avoid the damage.

    http://privateerpressforums.com/show...iting-movement

    EDIT: It's been ruled that a model that moves 0" and doesn't change facing doesn't count as having advanced, since OW's feat specifically states that models can change facing it can be avoided by just not moving, no need to forfeit movement.

    Scrapjack
    SPD - Average
    STR - Average
    MAT - Below average
    RAT - Bad
    DEF- Good for a Khador jack.
    ARM - Average for a light warjack

    Pathfinder
    Construct
    Arc Node
    2x Mechanikal Talons - 2" Reach, average POW

    Bond [Old Witch] - If Old Witch gets hurt, Scrapjack gains a buff to attack and damage rolls and a SPD buff
    Companion: Old Witch - If Old Witch dies Scrappy goes with her.
    Prowl

    Old Witch strengths and weakenesses
    + Scrapjack under Avatar of Slaughter gets work done against single wound infantry
    + Very good feat for scenario
    + Can be very difficult to assassinate if played correctly
    + Supports combined arms armies well between Weald Secrets and Iron Flesh
    + Good infantry caster
    + Good board control
    + Probably the most mobile caster in Khador due to Unseen Path
    + Field Marshal: Apparition is great

    - Made of wet paper towels
    - Sprays are her worst enemy
    - Legion is basically a no go for her
    - Certain Cygnar lists as well (Caine2 and Sloan)
    - Any warjack past the first is probably eating into your army points
    - Can be fairly focus intensive
    - wants to play aggresive but can't take a hit
    - Scrapjack can be a bit of a liability
    - Bit of jack of all trades, master of none. Does nothing specific other warcasters in the faction can do better. There are better assassination casters than her and better scenario casters better than her.

    Notes
    - The knock down effect on her feat trigger before Tough, so her feat ignores it
    - Overtake move triggers before Berserk. The Berserk attack will then trigger another Overtake move and so on
    - Reducing damage to zero via Reinforce still counts as taking damage and will trigger Scrapjacks bond

    Mainly made this because I'll probably be putting up a battle report tomorrow involving Old Witch vs Menoth.

    I will probably play this list

    Old Witch
    - Scrapjack
    - Behemoth

    Doom Reavers
    Greylord Ternion
    Widowmaker Scouts
    Kayazy Assassins + UA
    Gun Carriage

    Mostly this is just experimenting. Its my usual Old Witch "basic core" of Behemoth, Ternion and Doomies but I want to see how Mk3 kayazy get on and I want to use the gun carriage as an LoS blocker and model-delayer. I also don't want to model rep and my Rifle Core hasn't arrived yet. So theres that.

    My first Mk3 Old Witch battle report can be found via the link in my signature. I'm also working on a Tactica for her that started as a KGB but got out of hand.
    Last edited by HereComesTomorrow; 08-18-2016 at 03:44 AM.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  2. #2

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    What bugs me about the old witch is that she is a Khador Caster with a Arcnode that doesn't need an arcnode (Or neads it the least).

  3. #3

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    I think the arc node is mainly there for Gallows, but Gallows is rubbish and almost never worth casting. It can be useful for swapping upkeeps near the frontlines and OW has a good hiding spot near the back of the edges of the board, but that rarely comes up.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  4. #4

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    I'm taking my Khador back off of the shelf for a bit and keep on feeling myself drawn to Old Witch- she just looks like so much fun with all of the movement shenanigans for her battle group.

    While building lists the main thing that has come into each of my lists has been the WGRC death star. OW has the ability to either up their survivability vs blasts (Iron Flesh), but the real synergy is Weald Secrets, turning the Rifle Corps into super powered Nyss Hunters. I'll be trying them out once we get to 50 pts in the Journeyman league (yeah I know- OW isn't the best option for running three jacks but the league's all about fun, right?) but I was curious to see if anyone else had taken this particular combo for a spin yet.

  5. #5
    Destroyer of Worlds HellecticMojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxterMynd View Post
    I'm taking my Khador back off of the shelf for a bit and keep on feeling myself drawn to Old Witch- she just looks like so much fun with all of the movement shenanigans for her battle group.

    While building lists the main thing that has come into each of my lists has been the WGRC death star. OW has the ability to either up their survivability vs blasts (Iron Flesh), but the real synergy is Weald Secrets, turning the Rifle Corps into super powered Nyss Hunters. I'll be trying them out once we get to 50 pts in the Journeyman league (yeah I know- OW isn't the best option for running three jacks but the league's all about fun, right?) but I was curious to see if anyone else had taken this particular combo for a spin yet.
    It's the best combo.

    I've discovered that it's good to have a soft unit and a tanky one so you can apply ironflesh appropriately to what's relevant. Ulhran's been pretty sweet with her since ironflesh + feat does good job against retaliation and approach.

    As for gallows I think it's pretty good now since she can actually cast gallows, unseen path scrappy out if pulled in too strongly and still fully allocate a jack. It means that both the riflecorp and the beater jack can get at a target rather than before where it was just gallows + 1 beater jack.

    Apparition + gallows make for a very reliable + 3 inch threat swing.

    My only fear is that she's still vulnerable as hell to assassinations.

  6. #6
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereComesTomorrow View Post
    I think the arc node is mainly there for Gallows, but Gallows is rubbish and almost never worth casting. It can be useful for swapping upkeeps near the frontlines and OW has a good hiding spot near the back of the edges of the board, but that rarely comes up.
    Gallows is my entire strategy with her and works amazing. Redlined Juggys on Malakov trade so amazing and you can command board position with that spell. Sniper package to the extreme takes out infantry, eiryss locks down a counter threat and double gallows brings in jack for the trade. I am making people HATE her in MK3.

  7. #7

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    I have had the idea of playing a list I call the pinball wizard of khador. Basic idea is to spam marauders with her and use them and gallows to moving thing around basing them into one another. Throw in some Rifle corps and season with whatever you feel you need (im thinking manhunters and some other solos that can crack armor) and you are ready to watch things bounce.

  8. #8
    Conqueror Valcaro's Avatar
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    I was not yet able to make gallows work for me. Anytime I consider using it, there is a unit or jack that need weald secrets and scrappy needs some fuel too to get his pacman thing going. Then there is the thing of pulling scrappy back so he doesn't get wrecked nex turn. I do however bring 3 juggers with her for trades, maybe gallows isn't that critical in this constellation. The Witch is pretty decent on paper, but do not try to drop her into legion or ret, this kaelyssa, man...
    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus View Post
    The Swans, unable to match our superior training, seek to catch up by rushing out a bunch of fresh recruits armed with the Arcane Tempest's latest gimmicky toy, trying to close the skill gap with a bunch of magic cheating.

  9. #9
    Conqueror MaGoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereComesTomorrow View Post
    ...
    - Things that ignore Concealment, ignore Prowl
    ...
    Just wanted to point out that, as far as I know, things that ignore Concealment do not ignore Prowl.

    Rules thread closed without comment:
    http://privateerpressforums.com/show...nter-and-Prowl
    Magnus
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by Rynth View Post
    Nothing in the game deserves to be as despised as the most disliked models are, and none of the models held as forum darlings are quite deserving of the praise they get.

  10. #10

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    I think the Old Witch is awesome now and it's all in the apparition.

    Context:
    I started playing the game in mk2 by playing the Old Witch vs Legion. I got my buttocks handed to me on the battle box level over and over again. It took until the fourth game until I actually killed a heavy, and then my opponent simply feated it back. Because yes, he played Thagrosh to further compound difficulties. But this highlights the Witch's problem: No damage buff.

    She was fun to play but had a limited anti-infantry game. Not that nobody played infantry in mk2, but most brought along a heavy or two. So Behemoth was very useful. Unfortunately a 7.5" threat range was a complete downer. And Gallows was, and still is, a trap.

    Now that "nobody" plays infantry in mk3, is she not pointless? Nope, thanks to battle group-wide Apparition.

    It's a threat extender for our melee jacks and often gets our ranged jacks out of melee (because the new 1" range on heavies' melee weapons have made people sloppy).

    Also power up helps her run a big battle group.

    My first game I tried her with a Conquest, since I wanted to try it out with Hunter. The list was something like: Old Witch, Scrapjack, Reinholdt, Conquest, Ruin, Max Uhlans, Iron Fang Kovnik, Greylord Ternions and Koldun Lord. I got to start and ran up. He moved forward cautiously with his shield wall guys shield-walling. I moved up and feated and shuffled everything forward. His turn two he stayed put to avoid the feat but shot my objective with a blast that pinged the Witch for 2 points of damage and shot my Uhlans to death. So my turn three Scrapjack managed to charge the unit next to the shieldwall guys with polarity shield and then proceeded to slaughter thirteen infantry and pinging Rahn for a damage or two. Then it was just mopping up.

    Apparition and extra speed saved the day. But I decided to change the list.

    For my second game the list was: Old Witch, Scrapjack, Reinholdt, Behemoth, Juggernaut, Ruin, Max Black Dragons w CA, Iron Fang Kovnik, Greylord Ternions, Koldun Lord an the game was vs Xekaar(?), the new battle box caster for Skorne. He had a double cannoneer with double solos handing out eyless sight and a cyclops shaman with some swordsmen. Plenty of stealth- and cover-ignoring shooting to worry the Witch. But apparition allowed my melee jacks to get stuck in while my feat stopped his swordsmen from jamming. This time I had to sacrifice Scrapjack to stop the Cyclops from shooting the Witch, but I ground it out out. Finally I assassinated his caster who stood empty but body blocked by his survivng warbeasts. Fortunately Behemoth could apparition to the side, out of melee and arcing fire two bombs on the desert vampires head, sealing the deal.

    This game apparition allowed my melee jacks to get stuck in, but also enabled Behemoth to aim for the final shot. Simply golden.

    The third game was with the same list vs a Vlad2 dudespamlist. Full Iron Fangs, double doom reavers, snipers, a Drakhun and some jacks. I went first and ran up. He ran up. Turn two Behemoth had range to his bunched up doom reavers on the right and killed five with his two bombards. On the left Scrapjack charged the closest Doom Reavers and pac manned his way up, killing five doom reavers, seven IFP and the war dog. Unfortunately he ended to far away for the Witch to teleport him home, but I feated and then it was mop-up.

    This game apparition allowed for Scrapjack's charge, but also for Behemoth shooting one unit of doom reavers.

    I'm not really sure that this list is optimal. I've heard fun stuff about rifle corps with hunter, but Iron Flesh on Black dragons was fun. Just as on Uhlans. After all, it's agame of enforcing strengths, not shoring up weaknesses. SHe still doesn't have a damage buff, but bringing Juggernauts and Behemoth solves that. Them being their own damage buffs...

    I just wanted to share my experiences and finish by saying again: Battlegroup-wide Apparition is nice.
    Grey Khador from Sweden
    My newfound pen pals
    Bad Boost - a Warmachine/Hordes comic: Bad Boost
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    I personally want [eCarver on chariot] to happen, solely so I can refer to eCarver as "Pulled Pork".

  11. #11
    Conqueror
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    Sounds very nice. But once again you're talking infantry-heavy opponents. And as I read the more infantry - the better your result.

  12. #12

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    I think as time goes on people are going to realize that while Power Up is a big help, it's not capable of running 6 jacks with a caster who isn't designed to run jacks.

    A lot of peoples initial reactions to Vlad1 for example was to run him with loads of jacks under S&P but people are finding it lackluster because hes only left with 3 focus after the spell, and 3 focus isn't going to run a battlegroup of 8 warjacks.

    Old Witch is the same. Can she run jacks now? Sure. Should she? Probably not. Between all her upkeeps, fueling Scrappy and Big B and Murder of Crow repositioning she isn't left with much focus. A unit Iron Fang will do as much as a warjack with one focus.
    I could see running Ruin with her as he's pretty self-sufficiant with her, but of all the warcasters I'd say shes the one who wants Behemoths focus efficiancy the most and at his points cost Ruin and the excess 6pts for Behemoth are taking directly away from your army.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  13. #13

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    I can see her getting alot better as meta's shift. We into a new dawn with jack spam lists every where. When {weapon master/Flank/Gang/High Pow} infantry return with the release of themes, she will be golden I think. We just need to see how the themes will give infantry a boost. Just wait for the return of Cryx MOAR BANEZ theme force. The ua was nerfed for a reason.

  14. #14

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    New battle report up in my thread.

    The more I use OW the more potential I'm seeing in her assassination run. I feel like I need to push Scrapjack a bit more aggresivly though. Doesn't help that I seem to end up in a lot of bad match ups as well.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  15. #15

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    Another battle report up in my thread.

    http://privateerpressforums.com/show...=1#post3657313
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  16. #16
    Destroyer of Worlds Wendan's Avatar
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    I forgot to post this, but a while ago I took old witch accidentally with 3 iron fangs to a tournament!

    She did a good job in all the areas you might expect, namely scenario and area denial. She had some trouble dealing damage (it was against Bart and a Galleon with some other stuff, but I basically used the iron fangs to keep him from the zone, Zap Brannigan style. at the end of the game I had killed precisely zero models, but I had won 5-0 on scenario. She got the final point by dominating her own zone, using scrap jack to run behind the only jack he could toe in and pulling him out with Gallows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frey
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    It is important to note that I am just awful at this game. Seriously, watching me play is like watching Keanu Reeves perform Hamlet. It's funny at first, but then starts to get quietly sad, until you just want to leave the room.

  17. #17

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    New batrep up in my thread.

    Just click here.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  18. #18

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    Played her again today.

    Still toying with lists and took this:

    Old Witch
    - Scrapjack
    - Kodiak
    - Kodiak
    - Ruin
    - Sylys

    Kovnik Joe
    Drakhun
    Drakhun

    WGRC + 2 Rockets.

    Opponent was:

    Zaadesh2
    - Titan Sentry
    - Titan Sentry
    - Aradus Soldier
    - Scarab beast pack
    - Agoniser

    Centratii + UA + A solo I think?
    Paingivers
    Other stuff.

    Went for the assassination on the bottom turn 3 vs Zaadesh on 5 tranfers and got him down to no transfers and one box left even after Zaadesh ran away out of my feat. I probably could have killed him but his feat was a pain and my Winter Guard kept fluffing their rolls and failing to kill scarabs.

    Anyway, point is if Zaadesh didn't have exactly the same amount of transfers as I had focus it would have been a win. My opponent knew the assassination was coming when I cast AoS because hes seen it several time before so knew to run away from Eyriss1 and camp.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  19. #19
    Conqueror
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    I did a batrep to start my thread.

    http://privateerpressforums.com/show...52#post3737052

    I don't think I want to play her again quite yet.

  20. #20

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    Shes much better than a D level caster, she just takes time to understand.

    Couple if things
    - Heavies laugh at Behemoths guns. Lights are good targets but yeah in your case, Stealth. You might have been better going for drifts on the Blood Weavers or just ignoring shooting altogether in order to commit Behemoth further forward.

    - If you want to charge Scrapjack, I've found it's always best to follow this activation order:

    - Ternion clouds him and OW
    - Scrapjack charges, fails horribly or exceeds your wildest expectations then you realise he's out of control range
    - OW casts Unseen Path to bring him back to safety

    - Heavies don't care about the feat. So if you HAD feated on turn 2 the results would have been much the same

    - Remember if a model can't see you it can't charge you. If you're worried about a heavy charging you, you can place MoC to mess then up
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  21. #21

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    Well if don't pull scrappy back and lose your spd 6 heavies to other spd 6 heavies turn 2 OW is indeed bad. She's not B3 after all. Imagine Wurmwood losing his node and heavies on turn 2.

  22. #22

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    New Batrep up in my thread, link in signature.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  23. #23

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    So I'm back home in Scotland and got a game in against a friend, I didn't bring my pad but it was last night so its still fairly fresh in my mind.

    Lists

    Old Witch
    - Scrapjack
    - Kodiak
    - Kodiak
    - Behemoth
    - Sylys

    Kovnik Joe
    Eyriss1
    Gobber Tinker
    WGRC + 3 Rockets
    Greylord Ternion

    --------------------------------

    Garryth
    - Moros
    - Chimera
    - Sylys

    3x Arcanist (?)
    2x MHA

    Max. Sentinels + UA
    Max. Halbediers + UA
    2x Battle Mages

    ------------------

    Scenario was Take and Hold. I've played against Garryth before and his feat is pretty much a hard counter to Old Witch (no place effects, can't spend focus and fury, can't cast spells). Typing this out I just realised I cheated and used the Ternion ice shotguns under feat. It doesn't really make a difference though. So anyway I decided to push hard on scenrio and try to have OW dominate the enemy flag . Luckily my opponent deployed Garryth to do the same on his side and put him fairly far to my left. Not so luckily he deployed his Sentinels and Halberds on his flag so I had a lot to clear out. I put my jacks central and my Rifles to the right, opposite his infantry. My opponent chose sides so I went first.

    Khador Turn 1
    -------------------
    Running. I premeausure to keep Eyriss safe from MHAs. Iron Flesh on OW, Weald on the WGRC and put down Crows to dissuade a MHA from getting too friendly with my jacks.

    Ret Turn 1
    --------------------------
    Running, Halberds Shield Wall and hide on a hill. Garryth casts Mirage on the...banshee? Might be the Sentinels, I was away doing other stuff. He also casts no knock down on himself.

    Turn 2
    ------------------------
    Behemoth gets a focus. Joe gives the WGRC boosted attacks which they use to kill a unit of Battle Mages. The Rockets start shooting the Sentinels to break up their B2B shenanigans amd the rifles pick a few more off. Behemoth also shoots the Sentinels leaving the banner, a UA with two health and two normal dudes. Everything else moves towards my right flank to avoid charges from his jacks and MHAs on the left flank.

    OW Unseen Paths to Scrapjack and feats catching just the Halbediers, but that was my plan anyway. No, it really was.

    Ret Turn 2
    -------------------------
    The Sentinels bounce around from Mirage. The MHA charges Eyriss and misses then we remember shes probably in the feat and dies. The Banshee slams a Kodiak into Behemoth doing 6 dmg to the kodiak and nothing to Behemoth but knocking them both down. It takes 6 damage from the feat in return. Moros moves up and take like 4 damage from feat and Garryth runs deep into my side of the board and feats catching most of my army cause its all bunched up near his flag. Everyone else kind of shuffles about waiting for the giant thorns to go away.

    Khador Turn 3
    ----------------------------
    I allocate one to Behemoth, forgetting that hes knocked down and can't spend focus.

    Eyriss stands still to aim and disrupts Garryth. The Greylord Ternion cheat by running into Garryths face and casting their ice shotguns, doing about 5 damage to him and killing two Battle Mages. Old Witch walks out of Garryths feat and into base contact with the enemy flag and casts Avatar Of Slaughter on Scrappy. The knocked down kodiak stands up and walks into a forest and Behemoth stands up and walks up next to Old Witch. The WGRC rockets attempt to break up the shield wall and manage to kill two middle guys and the rifles managebto kill 4 more, killing 50% of the unit and killing a contesting Halbedier. Scrapjack manages to kill the last of the Sentinels to clear the last contesting models for Old Witch to dominate but very open to Halbediers.

    Looking back, I should have put down a MoC to block their LoS for charges.

    Score
    2-0

    Ret Turn 3
    ---------------------

    The Banshee misses a boosted shot at OW. The Halberds charge OW and do a CMA for 11dmg, but I camped 4 so I reduce it to 6.

    The Battle Mages plink at the kodiak hoping for crits but get none and don't really do any damage. Moros kills Eyriss and a Greylord then Garryth misses a Hreylord and kills a second (and is disrupted so can't buy more attacks).

    Khador Turn 4
    --------------------------------
    Old Witch allocates 3 to Scrapjack who AoS's his way through the remaining Halbediers to clear contesting models and my opponent concedes because he won't be able to contest next turn and most of my army is still alive to get in Garryths way for the assassination.


    Post game
    -----------------------
    Anyway yeah. I really like this list. I was worried about how it would deal with this Garryth list because Halbediers and Sentinels are scary but it seemed to deal with infantry pretty well.
    Last edited by HereComesTomorrow; 12-20-2016 at 08:29 AM.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  24. #24
    Conqueror
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    So with Old Witch part of the ADR this is a list I am thinking of running as a senario list. Any thoughts?

    War Room Army

    Khador - Grollin with Old Behemoth

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army 40 / 40 Specialist


    The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18
    - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
    - Scrapjack
    - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
    - Grolar - PC: 18
    - Marauder - PC: 10


    Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4
    Yuri the Axe - PC: 6

    Assault Kommandos - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
    - Assault Kommando Flame Thrower - PC: 2
    - Assault Kommando Flame Thrower - PC: 2
    - Assault Kommando Flame Thrower - PC: 2
    Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7

    SPECIALISTS
    Kodiak - PC: 13
    Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
    Alten Ashley - PC: 6
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Kossite Woodsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7

    ---

    GENERATED : 01/08/2017 10:28:11
    BUILD ID : 2032.16-12-16

  25. #25

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    I think that:
    - kommandos are overkill against infantry in a witch list. Is there any specific reason for them?
    - Ashley without full sniper boat (Marksman, Widowmakers, Bailoch) is not that good. The idea is shooting off aspect and deny the heal on it, only Marksman + Ashley can't do it by themselves. Maybe full is overkill but you need to be able to do 8-12 damage, Marksman+Ashley+Bailoch is bare minimum.
    - Yuri should be together with Kossites in specialists or in main list. His main purpouse is to give them treewalker.
    - I'd put Kodiak in the main over Marauder. Both can operate on power up and Kodiak cloud+witch cloud gives you a cloudwall.

  26. #26
    Conqueror
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    The AKs are in becuase I don't have IFP and I need something that can take up an area and force my opponent to send something that way that they don't wanna waste on them.

    Alten is just there as a fill for adr points with What I own that might have some adr use.

    I know most players don't find yuri great but for some reason he has always preformed well for me.

    As for the Kodiak I would love to put him in but then I would lose the Grolar as I only have the one kit. So maybe I will try dropping the AKS and switch the grolar for the kodiak and some MoW do you think that would work better?

  27. #27
    Conqueror
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    So do you think this works better?

    War Room Army

    Khador - Old witch vr2.5

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army 40 / 40 Specialist


    The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18
    - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
    - Scrapjack
    - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
    - Kodiak - PC: 13
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12


    Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5
    Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4

    Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
    - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4
    Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7

    SPECIALISTS
    Marauder - PC: 10
    Yuri the Axe - PC: 6
    Manhunter - PC: 4
    Kossite Woodsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8



    ---

    GENERATED : 01/08/2017 13:29:48
    BUILD ID : 2032.16-12-16

  28. #28

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    I would prefer the second List. MOW look better then AKs

    The First List looks like something you would run with Strakov.

    However I am a bit clueless atm as how to Run Old Witch. I like her, or I want to like her, but I think she is pretty complex. Her buildpath is very diverse without really having a peek strength (imo).

    I know HereComesTomorrow has a lot of experience with her, but I really don't like the Assasination Playstile with her. I think as with Sorcha1. It should be an option, not your main gameplan.

  29. #29

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    I was wondering lately if maybe The Old Witch could be a possible Khador-Counter to Una2.

    Reason for my thoughts are following:

    1) Old Witches Feat should deal some damage to Griffons
    2) Murder of Crows will prevent Charging
    3) if "trapped" by feated Griffons, Unseen Path might give you an escape plan.

    So, I think I'll give it a try, as soon as our local circle player will start playing Una2.
    Meanwhile I'm wondering what you guys think about that idea.

  30. #30

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    Wont Circle just kill her? Or 1. Kill Scrappy and than her?

    Is the feat relly enough?

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by raghnath View Post
    I was wondering lately if maybe The Old Witch could be a possible Khador-Counter to Una2.

    Reason for my thoughts are following:

    1) Old Witches Feat should deal some damage to Griffons
    2) Murder of Crows will prevent Charging
    3) if "trapped" by feated Griffons, Unseen Path might give you an escape plan.

    So, I think I'll give it a try, as soon as our local circle player will start playing Una2.
    Meanwhile I'm wondering what you guys think about that idea.
    That might work, but you need multiple stealth removals and good shooting to utilize the turn feat gives you. She may not have enough points for all of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kovnik Ninehouse View Post
    So do you think this works better?
    I think this needs Ragman or Uhlans instead of mows to have more damage.
    Last edited by Smooth Criminal; 01-09-2017 at 04:29 AM.

  32. #32
    Eater of Brains Esper's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the shocktrooper boat with the OW, because it's expensive and she's short of points. Personally, I just take more jacks.

  33. #33
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    What do you guys think about the Nyss Hunters with Valachev in an old witch list? Would that be good fit?

  34. #34

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    I played them once in OW and didn't like them. After they got def cut to 14 they became quite easy to remove. Given that OW can provide pathfinder to anything I'd play any unit of the similar cost we have in faction over them, fangs, kayazi, winter guards, etc.
    They want a caster that can skew their def like Irusk2.
    Last edited by Smooth Criminal; 01-09-2017 at 09:44 AM.

  35. #35
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovnik Ninehouse View Post
    What do you guys think about the Nyss Hunters with Valachev in an old witch list? Would that be good fit?
    They are my go to unit with her. They have pathfinder, so she can put it on something better, like a jack. They fill a duel of role of being able to dish out pain while the enemy is locked in place via ranged attacks + they can finish a jack on their own. Def14 is more than enough to make the viable, especailly since you can play all kinds on movement games with Vephyr.

  36. #36
    Conqueror
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisBatson View Post
    They are my go to unit with her. They have pathfinder, so she can put it on something better, like a jack. They fill a duel of role of being able to dish out pain while the enemy is locked in place via ranged attacks + they can finish a jack on their own. Def14 is more than enough to make the viable, especailly since you can play all kinds on movement games with Vephyr.
    Cool I am gonna try this.

  37. #37
    Destroyer of Worlds Wendan's Avatar
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    Ran her yesterday in a tourney! I only got one game with her, which I lost, but I was really happy with the way she played. I really am enjoying putting AoS on her and leaving it off scrappy. It seems to encourage me to get her to do a lot more work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frey
    Moose don't get angry, they get even
    It is important to note that I am just awful at this game. Seriously, watching me play is like watching Keanu Reeves perform Hamlet. It's funny at first, but then starts to get quietly sad, until you just want to leave the room.

  38. #38
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    I really wonder if Gallows is undersold. Consider. Your threat range on Gallows is 24 inches (Scrappy running 14 and then a 10 inch gallow. The threat for E1 is 19. The threat for the WGI RC for a CRA is 20 and for the Nyss under Valachev 21. Lets assume that your opponent puts his caster within 2 feet of scrappy It will be less bacause, Angles. You then Arcane Secrets with Sylss to improve your chances of hitting. You can then Gallows. POW 13 is a nice start. But most importantly you can make adjustments based on"things". Roll enough on the pull, boost the damage. Not enough, well cast it AGAIN, this time boosting, to suck him forward some more. If things go sideways, then you can Unseen path him back and try the following turn.

    In the above build the shortest thing is the 5 inch deleta between Scrappy and e1's threat. But getting 7 inches is better than average on 2 Gallows. I may work out the full probability. Then, focus stripped, apply double massive CRAs for the win. Shut down by having sufficient screeners - but you could bring snipers to take care of single would stuff....and maybe something like R&B to toss **** around.

    KEy, keeping her alive.

  39. #39

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    If you double cast arced Gallows you don't have enough for Unseen Path. If you cast and boost either roll and then cast Unseen Path OW can't do anything else and are only left with a single focus for protection/allocation. And this is assuming you only have two upkeeps running, if you have a third then you're blowing your entire focus on a plan that is unreliable and at worst might get her killed if you have a series of bad rolls.

    The idea of Gallows is fine when if she ONLY has to worry about Gallows and maybe Unseen Path. But almost never does.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  40. #40

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    The gallows randomness ruins the assassination potential. If you set up for minimal amount, that's +2" from double gallows, same as Sorscha gives to winter guard. If you set up for longer you're in the potential lose play zone.

    I would try gallows as last ditch assassination attempt, but never as main plan.

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