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  1. #41
    Conqueror
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    I wish they change gallows like they did energizer. Make it cost 2 and just move 2" period

  2. #42
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
    The gallows randomness ruins the assassination potential. If you set up for minimal amount, that's +2" from double gallows, same as Sorscha gives to winter guard. If you set up for longer you're in the potential lose play zone.

    I would try gallows as last ditch assassination attempt, but never as main plan.
    OK. Because I was interested )and my boss ins't in to give feedback on latest project) lets assume for a moment that the warnoun STARTS 25 inches from E1 and that you have the angle and opening to get Scrappy to where she. For laughs and chuckles, I want to look at a Def 15 caster. Adjust as need be for others.

    I am bringing OW, E1, and then something(s) that will kill a war noun who has been stripped of focus. The 2 likely categories here are Nyss+val or WGIRC. There are other possibilities.


    No allocation and OW has 7. So 2 upkeeps out (one for free with Great Power and one for Silly Elf).
    Step 1. Silly elf gives OW Arcane Secrets (100% chance)
    Step 2. Scrappy runs (100% chance).
    Step 3. OW casts unboosted Gallows (see http://privateerpressforums.com/show...s-amp-Portents) for the charts. 68% chance to land it. If fail, cast Unseen path to bring Scrappy back to Safety.
    Step 4. Roll Distance pulled. This is a little confusing to write up but I created a probability tree to figure it out.
    <Note - if you roll a 3 or higher for distance pulled you are probably "all in").
    Step 5. Roll for boosted Gallows. With 3D6 an 8 is 83% (http://www.talkstats.com/showthread....-(2d6-3d6-4d6)

    When you calculate all of the above and make a probability chart you have a 42% of landing BOTH gallows and pulling the warnoun a combined 6 inches on two gallows. We would then want to work through the probabilities of having the CRAs do what they had to do to kill the warnoun stripped of focus. I feel pretty decent about this as we are starting with Joe a minimum of effective RAT 9 and going up. But Dice......

    (If you would like to duplicate the work to see if you get a different answer you start by creating a "tree" that shows the possible outcomes of our steps. So the first one is the 68% chance of hitting with our S&P boosted Gallows and then create, on the "I hit side) 6 branches to represent the different distances from 1 to 6 which you pulled the warnoun. Then proceed from there to represent the probability of hitting (83%) and then the probabilities for the various distance dragged...So for example there is a .68 probability of hitting him * 1/6 for a 1 inch pull * .83 for landing the second one and then a 1/3 chance of rolling the 5 or 6 to bring the target into the danger zone))


    PS. One addendum. Lowering our oods a bit is actually OVERROLLING on the gallows. The key result, I think, would be a 2-6; 3-5 or 4-4+ where the first number represents the distance you pull the target toward Scrappy on the first gallow and the second number the distance rolled on the second.) You do not wish to put the warnoun into combat with Scrappy because they the def for the e1 shot goes up to 19. The flip side is that if you roll a 5 and especially a 6 (.68 times 1/3) on our FIRST gallows you may not need the second. That would allow you, for example, to BOOST the damage (under S&P) on the gallows damage roll since the pull comes on "hit" rather than after rolling damage.

    The moral of all this? OW loves Sylss (duh) but also loves E1 and things that can make a caster dead if their focus and fury get stripped (such as Behemoth). Also unless you are feeling good about things - there is nothing wrong with trying a 40% plus assassination attempt if you opponent fails to appreciate gallows.

    PPS. and of course there is a 18.5 inch assassination vector always on the table with Scrappy running and then OW unseen pathing while upkeeping Avatar of Slaugher on herself given appariation. The interesting math there is whether POW 15; Mat 8 with 2 initials and 7 focus is enough to kill enough stuff that is out there. Definately against a lot but some things would survive..
    Last edited by Sand20go; 01-10-2017 at 11:08 AM.

  3. #43

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    The gallows + unseen path combo would be more effective in potentially catching an enemy model such as a key solo or moving a jack/beast far enough to allow your army to engage with guns/melee. As for assassination, I actually like having the hail mary option available. Some Khador lists can be built with pretty much zero assassination play (Hark + melee jacks comes to mind) so it's nice to have a non-linear (somewhat) assassination in the bank.

  4. #44
    Destroyer of Worlds Wendan's Avatar
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    The gallows pull came up in two scenarios in my game on Saturday. In the first, I gallows'd a couple of troopers closer to try and get souls for next turn. I didn't pull them far enough, but I haven't done that before and it seemed like a good idea (OW was relatively safe)

    The second use was a consideration of pulling Vlad2 closer for the assassination. If I had like 7 extra focus I would have absolutely done it, but I had 7 souls and would have had to have done it on the next turn. Didn't quite make it that far, but if you've got her loaded on souls it's an option!
    Quote Originally Posted by Frey
    Moose don't get angry, they get even
    It is important to note that I am just awful at this game. Seriously, watching me play is like watching Keanu Reeves perform Hamlet. It's funny at first, but then starts to get quietly sad, until you just want to leave the room.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenbay924 View Post
    The gallows + unseen path combo would be more effective in potentially catching an enemy model such as a key solo or moving a jack/beast far enough to allow your army to engage with guns/melee. As for assassination, I actually like having the hail mary option available. Some Khador lists can be built with pretty much zero assassination play (Hark + melee jacks comes to mind) so it's nice to have a non-linear (somewhat) assassination in the bank.
    In case I wasn't clear it is a DOUBLE GALLOWS to move the warnoun into E1 bolt range. As noted above, against something like, for example, Una2 it can get her close enough, if she starts 25 inches from E1. 42% of the time (and thus bolted, 59% of the time once there. (so about 24% chance of stripping the target).

  6. #46

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    Theory and practice with Old Witch are very different things.

    Play a game with her using this strategy and get back to us.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  7. #47
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
    The gallows randomness ruins the assassination potential. If you set up for minimal amount, that's +2" from double gallows, same as Sorscha gives to winter guard. If you set up for longer you're in the potential lose play zone.

    I would try gallows as last ditch assassination attempt, but never as main plan.
    Try not using it as an assassination plan, but rather an attrition plan. You are locking down toops with her feat and killing them off and then using gallows to pull up a heavy and take it down. If you build you list with this tactic in mind, you can almost always pull it off.

  8. #48
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    The other thing that people arent talking about is Murder of Crows. That spell has brutal control elements.

    The OW has so much to offer and so much versatility, but you have to use it all to make her a monster.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisBatson View Post
    The other thing that people arent talking about is Murder of Crows. That spell has brutal control elements.

    The OW has so much to offer and so much versatility, but you have to use it all to make her a monster.
    I use it first turn then maybe upkeep it if still looks useful

  10. #50

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    Murder is generally accepted as a decent spell. Which I suppose is why its not talked about. I find myself using it more now with Power Up lessened the burden on OW

    I did used to like putting it on a unit of Gun Mages in the feat so they had to risk dying after shooting or run directky away to get out of the feat and murder template.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  11. #51

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    Avatar giving plus to hit and damage opens another cheeky assination venue with her. Simply running scrap jack and teleporting old witch to the target. Mat 8 2x pow 15 with 5 focus can kill warcasters. I like playing the prowl models with her, as you can set up the cloud after a prowl model goes to grant stealth and block Los to things like behemoth. Her feat is very good, she suffers from some tax like Greylock ternions, so she always walks around stealthed. But overall positioning is very important when playing old witch and can be frustrating as she is less forgiving then others.

  12. #52

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    Having always loved her fluff as one of the strongest entities in the Iron Kingdoms, I've recently started to play the OW hoping for a challenge. And heck I got it.

    The basic problem I recognized after a couple of battles is there is literally no one on the table who would care about her feat. The heavies make up a half of the table while the other half takes support - who is way back and unaffected - and ranged infantry, who stays where they were, aims and continues to shoot as normal. Only light jacks/beasts and melee single would infantry should be concerned about it.
    You'd like to feat early to halt as much advance as possible, but it doesn't really make sense, because by then you'd be probably in charge range of enemy heavies.

    And hell, why can't Khador have at least FOC 8 caster?

  13. #53
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosKamilos View Post
    Having always loved her fluff as one of the strongest entities in the Iron Kingdoms, I've recently started to play the OW hoping for a challenge. And heck I got it.

    The basic problem I recognized after a couple of battles is there is literally no one on the table who would care about her feat. The heavies make up a half of the table while the other half takes support - who is way back and unaffected - and ranged infantry, who stays where they were, aims and continues to shoot as normal. Only light jacks/beasts and melee single would infantry should be concerned about it.
    You'd like to feat early to halt as much advance as possible, but it doesn't really make sense, because by then you'd be probably in charge range of enemy heavies.
    Then you may be playing her into the wrong list. She works great for me in stopping an army. But dropping her into a jack heavy with shooting support list will definately affect her ability to get the job done. But all casters have a bad match up problem.

  14. #54
    Eater of Brains Esper's Avatar
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    Everytime I see people posting that no one cares about her feat, I wonder if no one else plays against people using cavalry? Even Arcane Shielded Stormlances care about POW 14 and knockdown.

    Players may think they don't care, but I've ripped entire aspects off of beasts before. Not everything is ARM 20 in the game, and dice spikes do happen.
    Last edited by Esper; 01-16-2017 at 07:14 AM.

  15. #55

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    Loads of stuff cares about her feat, just not heavies. And theres a lot of heavies about these days.

    Also, yeah, you can get lucky dice spikes but discussion on this forum tends to prefer everything be valued by uts average roll, not its highest possible result.
    Mk3 Record - Khador - 17/9
    Legion - 1/1
    Battles wut I had
    Newest report (12/30/16): Irusk2 vs Magnus2

  16. #56

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    I just wish her feat either knocked down every enemy in her control area or just dealt a POW 14 to every enemy model in her control area. Her feat is dependent on too many variables.
    When strangers meet, great allowances should be made for differences of custom and training. -Heretics of Dune, Frank Herbert

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