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  1. #41
    Destroyer of Worlds Gython's Avatar
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    Question

    Is it wise to take TWO bokur's in a 75pt. 3utcher list?
    Last edited by Gython; 07-19-2016 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #42
    Destroyer of Worlds JDAntoine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gython View Post
    Is it wise to take TWO bokur's in a 75pt. 3utcher list?
    It is almost mandatory if you skip out on ranged pieces.

    Alternatives are to bring more ranged offense yourself or include the Rager as soon as it's out. For now I rely on either Behemoth, WGRC or 'Snipers'.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by @Kriegsspiele View Post
    Great batrep!

    I still haven't tested Ragman with B3 because SoD adds +2 POW anyway. But well, +4 (or +2 at a different location) sounds great and Sucker is still a very cool thing, too. Since Madelyn isn't in my B3 list anymore, Ragman could do the job just like he did in MK2. Besides, I'm playing my list pretty dense - so Death Field should really help a lot. Sadly it last for a turn only - because otherwise my countercharging Drakhuns would be pretty happy to become POW 16 weaponmasters.
    Ya, I'm of two minds on it:

    1. Butcher specifically, and Khador in general, already have good armor cracking. In this current format where points feel so limited, I'm going to have to leave something (support) that I really want to have in my army out, and it might make sense to have that be the damage buff. If I can crank damage up to 11, does it really become necessary to push it to 12?

    2. Hell yes it does. In for a penny, in for a pound. If I'm bringing this army to deal with armor/wound spam, why would I not want to get as much help with that as possible? I'm going to have a hole in my game, so maybe the right call is to go all in and play as aggressive an army as possible. I don't have a shield guard and I won't have Orin, but I try to mitigate that with distance (B3 at the back) and LOS block, which was part of the reason I started playing the Gun Carriage and Kodiak.

    In my force in particular, Ragman can really get his value. I HATE the Kodiak's P+S 16 fists, and having Ragmen pushing that to 18 is a big deal. Then I can give SoD to the Uhlans, or really super power the Kodiak and push him to (de facto) 20's. Also, there are some really nice synergies in this list. The kodiaks' Vent steam going to 14's is sweet. Also, the Gun Carriage charging in, knocking down, then firing "POW 18's" into it's target is just sick, and better than boosted direct hits from Big B. Not to mention the natural benefit of sucker, espeically with the improved Vengeance.

  4. #44
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I'm not that sold on Ragman with B3. I mean, death shroud is good, but now that B3 can go up to POW18 on his own accord, as well as give it out to nearby models. Then it doesn't seem that useful.

    Then again, there is no kill like Overkill. And being +1-3 against a colossal is funny. But I do want to, at least once, kiss, rust, silence and shroud a colossal so B3 can be PS24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    Then again, there is no kill like Overkill. And being +1-3 against a colossal is funny. But I do want to, at least once, kiss, rust, silence and shroud a colossal so B3 can be PS24.
    Strengthening strengths is the way to go. Khador can't hit hard enough!

  6. #46
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Exactly!

    And happy 4,000 post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent100 View Post
    You've just been Decimated!
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  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    And happy 4,000 post.
    And luckily not a dumb one.

  8. #48
    Destroyer of Worlds Trihnicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by @Kriegsspiele View Post
    And luckily not a dumb one.
    I dont remember any of my milestones. Sometimes I'll remember that I have one coming up, but then Im 30 posts past it.

  9. #49
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Right, played against that new Legion Caster (Kryssia? Krystal? Krissie? Steve?) today with this weird B3 list.

    War Room Army

    Khador - Mad dogs of Hoppoloppicus Rex

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army


    Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
    - War Argus
    - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
    - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
    - Kodiak - PC: 13
    - Ruin - PC: 17
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12

    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7


    ---

    GENERATED : 07/26/2016 17:59:38
    BUILD ID : 2022.16-07-07

    Answers about the lists, I only have 2 Juggernauts, 1 Kodiak and I need to magnitize a Grolar to be both. And I don't have mechanics and ternion are cool! (Literally)

    He had Steve, 2 Scytheans, A Neraph, an Angelius, 2 spell martyrs, full unit of Warspears and UA, warmonger chief, forsaken, Shepard and 2 death stalkers. We didn't play a scenario, because we left our zones at home. But if we had, I would have won two turns earlier.

    I go first, and deploy in a line, Grolars on the Outside, then Ruin and the Kodiak, Juggernauts on the inside with Butcher in the middle, and my dogs and ternion behind. He deployed centrally with the Warspears on the flank, and declares his pray target to he be the left Grolar.

    I run up, quite a bit if I am honest. Then I energise and advance Butcher and cast silence of death on myself and end my turn. The Ternion run up as well.

    He advances to be just out of charge ran, but basically runs as well. Ashen Veil goes on the spears, and the middle most Scythean gets reposition.

    I mess up, I upkeep silence of death and give 2 to both Grolars, forgetting I need 2 to energiser. Basically, I was just outside shooting range, but I could have energised and taken some pot shots at the Scythean and Warspears, maybe hitting or killing something. But now I can't. So I advance up again, leaving Butcher in the middle with Ruin next to him. The Grolar and Juggernaut on the left advance to bait the Warspears, the Kodiak and Grolar on the Right advance to bait the angelius, Neraph and Scythean. The Juggernaut covers the hole whilst staring down the Scythean. I expect to lose three jacks on his counter attack.

    He feats, and feats hard. The Warspears wreck the Grolar and prey swap onto the Juggernaut but only do 20 damage and fail to take out a system. The Kodiak gets hammer headed and one hit killed by the Angelius. He makes a tactical boo boo and slams the Grolar to try and catch the greylord, but merely ends up with the Grolar going back 2 inches and out of melee range. The middle Juggernaut goes down to barely anything left. No cortex and no weapons.

    It's time to counter attack! My ternion bring down 2 warspears, and damage a third and damage the Carnivean and kill the Forsaken. My Grolar gets up and fails to kill the Neraph, I rolled double 1 twice for the hammer attack. I move my Useless Juggernaut out of melee range, taking a free strike but surviving on one box, opening up space for Ruin to counter attack. But first I send the left juggernaut in, and he fails to kill it meaning Ruin has to get his hands dirty. And he maces it to death. Butcher activates and uses Energiser to bum shuffle things around, opening up a charge lane for himself and his dogs. One dog goes after the war chief and kills him (silence of death makes them hit really hard.) another goes after the Warchief solo, but misses twice. Butcher kills the remains full health one and the injured one. Then he feats. I Managed to position my models so that the Angelious couldn't get into melee with Butcher (it was the one thing i was most afraid off, dice +5 meant he could kill me if he rolled high.)

    He attacks back again. The Warspears try to kill the dog, but merely make it angry and trigger vengeance. The Angelius Stabs Ruin, he rolls very well for the AP attack, doing about 15 damage, but doesn't scratch the paint with his bought attacks. The Neraph fails to kill the Grolar, meaning the Scythean has to do it. The deathstalkers finally get an easy target, killing the old men and each doing a point to the juggernaut, killing it. But that's all he has left.

    A very Vengenful argus kills a Warspears (SoD is golden here, no tough rolls) and Butcher turns the UA into goo. The other argus takes a deep bite out of the Angelius. I give two to Ruin and 2 to my Juggernaut. The Juggernaut breaks the Angelius with two swings. Not needing any focus to kill it and freeing Ruin, Ruin charges the last two heavies, killing the Sythean but not killing the Neraph. The last Greylord hits the Neraph and the Shepard, killing the sheapard but not killing the Nearph. I could send in Butcher, but I decide to send the dogs in. One makes it, but still fails to kill it.

    His Nearph frenzies and butchers the dog. The Death Stalkers kill the last puppy and do 2 points of damage to Butcher. The spell Martyr channels a fire spray. But misses Butcher.

    Finally, my Juggernaut activates and finally kills the Neraph. Butcher charges and kills the Deathstalkers, and then Ruin charges his warlock and turns her into mush.

    Victory to Khador! Glorious Tabling!


    Post match.

    I think my problem was that my warjacks kept getting in each other's way. Butcher has little in the way of movement buffs (apart from energiser, which is good, but not when I forget to have enough focus to cast it) and it helps Butcher move around like McHammerAxeTime, and with premeasuring, I was always safe from counterattack and I out threat most beasts by several inches. I used the Kodiak and Grolar as bait, expensive bait but it worked none the less, leaving the Juggernauts to counter attack. Except that didn't work quite like I imagined, so I'll probably end up picking up another one because the one that didn't die did so much work. And Ruin is still a pure beast. I wasn't that fussed on the grolars, but if I had actually not messed up and he got a few shots at the Warspears, he might not have died. Same for the one on the right. Who was in shooting range of the Scythean that eventually killed him.
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  10. #50
    Annihilator quotemyname's Avatar
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    So, next week I might be running this butcher army. What are your thoughts ahead of time? I will try to write up my results after my games.

    War Room Army

    Khador - B3

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army


    Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
    - War Argus
    - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan - PC: 4
    - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
    - Rager - PC: 11 (Proxy)

    Alten Ashley - PC: 5

    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17
    - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20


    ---

    GENERATED : 07/29/2016 19:36:35
    BUILD ID : 2022.16-07-07

    The Juggernaut is 7 points for ARM 20 and P+S 19.
    The Marauder is 7 points for the lols.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by quotemyname View Post
    So, next week I might be running this butcher army. What are your thoughts ahead of time? I will try to write up my results after my games.

    War Room Army

    Khador - B3

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army


    Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
    - War Argus
    - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan - PC: 4
    - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
    - Rager - PC: 11 (Proxy)

    Alten Ashley - PC: 5

    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17
    - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20


    ---

    GENERATED : 07/29/2016 19:36:35
    BUILD ID : 2022.16-07-07
    I played a very similar list. Two Grolar, no Ternion, Tinker. I feel like not having the Tinker in the list unnecessarily hurts your jacks. I also never got the Dragons to do much of anything. Then again I'm still super new with Khador, your mileage may vary =)
    MK III Tournament Results 2017

  12. #52
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Arise thread long since dead!

    Battle report time! See lists here http://privateerpressforums.com/show...-(help-me-win) (and beer)

    Game 1, went against Mordikaar from Skorne. I lost to assassination, B1 took three void spirits to the face and a Ferox and kneeled over dead. Even if they had failed, Mordikaar had 13 FURY and plenty of essence blast targets to cause the killing blow.

    I really suffer against his feat, and have done all three times I've gone against it. +3 DEF and Poltergiest is terrifying, especially when you are jammed by Ferox and they are 16/17 with Dodge. Kell took an early Ferox to the face (press forward, advance, jump and reach so 17 inches of non linear threat) meant I couldn't nab a single spirit before they reached the front line. Plus he jammed so far forward, I couldn't get to my objective to get magical attacks on Behemoth.

    Second game was B3 against Kreoss1 with Tristan and 5 Redeemers and Iridians with UA who preyed on my Uhlans it was the two circular zone match (I should learn names). Along with two cannons and choir. However, he took my bait and feated a turn early to nab all three of my Warjacks, but to do so he had to move the Iridians most out my left zone. I started my turn 2 warjacks down, the last had 1 box and was lucky. But my Uhlans hit like trucks and stabbed the Uhlans, leaving my Drakhun to charge and kill the UA, giving me 1 point. He made a massive mistake in not contesting the other zone, and Butcher ran and hid behind a forest to give me two more.

    It takes both of Tristan's Redeemers to kill the Drakhun and gain a point there, and the other three took out my Ternion and The two nearest Uhlans to the right zone, he put in one cannon and three Redeemers to contest the zone on the right. Kreoss retreats and casts lamentation

    My previously Silence of Deathed Uhlans charge the Redeemer (two make it.) and leave it on the ground, Butcher and his unit charge. The dogs make it to the cannon and rip it to bit(e)s butcher catches the two other Redeemers. It costs 4, but I impending doom the third into melee range and flashing blade. I kill the broken one and feat. I charge attack the middle one, and one more flashing blade later killed it and crippled the other. One melee attack later wins me the game.

    My opponent admits he messed up on scenario because he is so used to blowing people off the board they don't last long enough. He also admitted that he underestimated the scenario game that B3 has, because people give me weird looks when I tell them Khadors best Control Caster is B3.

    My last game was against my regular Legion opponent, our scenario was the two off centre rectangular zone. B3 list against Vayl. My Uhlans and Drakhuns looked after my zone, along with Kell. Everything else was gunning for my opponents, I was aiming to dominate it ASAP. I also got to go first. SoD goes on the Uhlans, everything runs up.

    The Deathstalkers take a few pot shots at the Uhlans, and along with the Raptors and a Ravagore they kill two of them. Silly mistake on my part. The Angelius goes to contest his own zone.

    My own Jacks charge the objective, netting me one point. My Uhlans Run/Charge, I blocked two of them behind the forest and my objective, so they moved up. My sole charging Uhlan takes quite a few boxes off the the Ravagore, knocking out his mind. My Drakhun moves to a better position. Butcher moves to dominate next turn. And Ruin eats a Ravagore for lunch. Kell kills a Deathstalkers and does some damage to a raptor.

    He kills two more Uhlans, the Raptors and Ravagore shoot the Drakhun, and barely manage to kill his horse. The remaining deathstalker shots Kell, but misses. He does some damage to my objective, but doesn't kill it.

    Butcher gives a full load to Ruin, and moves into the zone with energiser. Ruin turns around and then Charges the Angelius. Killing it, I dominate for 2. My last Uhlan and Drakhun charges the Ravagore previous Uhlan charged. The Uhlan does buckets of damage, the Drakhun rolls six on four dice, leaving him with 1. Kell misses his raptors, twice. The Juggernauts block Ravagore charge lanes to Butcher.
    Orin then walks up, uses his precious tokens to boost a chain lightning onto the Ravagore, he hits, and then kills it.

    He hides a Shepard behind a forest in the zone I'm dominating. He kills the Uhlan and Drakhun. And contests mine, he also smashes my objective. Giving him two.

    Butcher walks out of the zone, lines up a boosted obliteration onto the Shepard, kills him, feats, energises back into the zone and I win 5-2.
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  13. #53
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Imma go into a bit more detail about my list and my decisions behind it.

    I bring B3 because I love him. We get on on a psychological level....... But anyway!

    I was a bit of a fool today, against Kreoss I forgot to actually put Orin on the table. But I don't think he would have played that much because Kreoss just gave focus to his Redeemers.

    My Warjacks!
    I didn't actually bring any guns, apart from Kell and Butcher's Blunderbuss. So I brought two Juggernauts and Ruin along. Next time I'll probably bring a Kodiak, just for more pathfinder in the battlegroup, in my first match my jacks didn't do anything, apart from die to Redeemer and Iridian attack. So a Kodiak would not have done much, apart from maybe vent steam if it actually survived. Ruin didn't gain any souls, but his increased range did get him into melee with a Ravagore. I feel this is important to Butcher because apart from Energiser. Which isn't that good because it is out of activation and isn't effected by pathfinder. So gaining 2 more inches is amazing.

    My units!
    I brought Uhlans. Mostly because. A)Uhlans are amazing to look at. And B) I spent a lot of money on those bloody models, I will be damned if I don't jam them into every one of my pairings for the next year to feel as those I have made my money back on them. And C), they are excellent Silence of Death Targets.
    Seriously, outside of maybe Butcher himself, Ulhans are the best models to shove it on. PS18 lances turn things into mincemeat. Two of them took a Menoth a jack down to its last 2 boxes. One of them took half the boxes off a legion heavy.
    I also took Ternion, who found new ways to die. One of them killed two Iridians, but got Redeemered. Against Legion, they were so far behind my front line, they didn't kill anything. Probably a waste of points.

    I brought a Bokur as a mandatory shield guard, he did his duty, and died to raptors in one match. But survived the Redeemer onslaught due to keeping near Butcher. Madelyn didn't do much in either match, Orin was so poor he didn't even turn up to the first. But killed a Ravagore and two black forest shard members in the second. Making up for lost time I suppose. Vayl didn't toss any spells at Butcher, so he didn't need to do any arcane vortexing.

    Kell basically did nothing, eating a Ferox in my first match. Being redeemed in the second, and missing half his shots in the third, killing a single Deathstalker.

    Butcher himself.
    Lola still kills things dead, and Obliteration wins games too. Butcher basically makes his way to the zone of his choice and holds it until he wins. The trick is killing the things that can threat him. And now with boosted Uhlans, they can do some heavy lifting themselves. Along with his jacks of course.
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    You've just been Decimated!
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  14. #54
    Annihilator quotemyname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    Arise thread long since dead!

    Battle report time! See lists here http://privateerpressforums.com/show...-(help-me-win) (and beer)

    Game 1, went against Mordikaar from Skorne. I lost to assassination, B1 took three void spirits to the face and a Ferox and kneeled over dead. Even if they had failed, Mordikaar had 13 FURY and plenty of essence blast targets to cause the killing blow.

    I really suffer against his feat, and have done all three times I've gone against it. +3 DEF and Poltergiest is terrifying, especially when you are jammed by Ferox and they are 16/17 with Dodge. Kell took an early Ferox to the face (press forward, advance, jump and reach so 17 inches of non linear threat) meant I couldn't nab a single spirit before they reached the front line. Plus he jammed so far forward, I couldn't get to my objective to get magical attacks on Behemoth.
    Are you able to remember what the Mordikaar list was? I have a friend who plays Mordikaar and if they play similar armies I could perhaps give you some tips...

    Otherwise, good battle reports. I'd like to see you split it up with a few more headings to make it clear on a turn by turn basis if possible. I know it's hard to remember in the middle of the action, but usually snapping a picture or two (even if you don't post them) can help you remember what happened on what turns. It's much easier to read reports like this when you can see: "Turn1 Khador / Turn 1 Menoth" etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    Imma go into a bit more detail about my list and my decisions behind it.

    I bring B3 because I love him. We get on on a psychological level....... But anyway!

    I was a bit of a fool today, against Kreoss I forgot to actually put Orin on the table. But I don't think he would have played that much because Kreoss just gave focus to his Redeemers.

    My Warjacks!
    I didn't actually bring any guns, apart from Kell and Butcher's Blunderbuss. So I brought two Juggernauts and Ruin along. Next time I'll probably bring a Kodiak, just for more pathfinder in the battlegroup, in my first match my jacks didn't do anything, apart from die to Redeemer and Iridian attack. So a Kodiak would not have done much, apart from maybe vent steam if it actually survived. Ruin didn't gain any souls, but his increased range did get him into melee with a Ravagore. I feel this is important to Butcher because apart from Energiser. Which isn't that good because it is out of activation and isn't effected by pathfinder. So gaining 2 more inches is amazing.
    Consider a ranged jack like a Decimator. Butcher3 can usually give it focus to load up on those gun shots and punish something in the early turns of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    My units!
    I brought Uhlans. Mostly because. A)Uhlans are amazing to look at. And B) I spent a lot of money on those bloody models, I will be damned if I don't jam them into every one of my pairings for the next year to feel as those I have made my money back on them. And C), they are excellent Silence of Death Targets.
    Seriously, outside of maybe Butcher himself, Ulhans are the best models to shove it on. PS18 lances turn things into mincemeat. Two of them took a Menoth a jack down to its last 2 boxes. One of them took half the boxes off a legion heavy.
    I also took Ternion, who found new ways to die. One of them killed two Iridians, but got Redeemered. Against Legion, they were so far behind my front line, they didn't kill anything. Probably a waste of points.
    Uhlans: I totally agree on the Uhlans. I have yet to find a sweet spot army with Butcher3 in MkIII, but 90% of the time they're in the list!

    Greylords: I think PP hit the sweet spot on point cost for Ternion in MkIII. 7 points is perfect. Not too much, not too little. I think they're still a very valid inclusion in an army list this that seeks to bully opponents away from scenarios. The cloud wall (on a line of 3 heavies) they offer can allow Butcher and his important escort solos the ability to play a bit more aggressively against some gunlines without fearing getting shot off the table on the first turns of the game. Just try practicing your deployment a bit: Put the greylords right on the starting line in the gaps between warjacks, and let them walk forward and cast blizzard backward. The Jacks should have enough room to move straight through their line and set up the cloud wall, etc. The point is, I think they're still valid in a list like this. Not a waste of points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    I brought a Bokur as a mandatory shield guard, he did his duty, and died to raptors in one match. But survived the Redeemer onslaught due to keeping near Butcher. Madelyn didn't do much in either match, Orin was so poor he didn't even turn up to the first. But killed a Ravagore and two black forest shard members in the second. Making up for lost time I suppose. Vayl didn't toss any spells at Butcher, so he didn't need to do any arcane vortexing.

    Kell basically did nothing, eating a Ferox in my first match. Being redeemed in the second, and missing half his shots in the third, killing a single Deathstalker.

    Butcher himself.
    Lola still kills things dead, and Obliteration wins games too. Butcher basically makes his way to the zone of his choice and holds it until he wins. The trick is killing the things that can threat him. And now with boosted Uhlans, they can do some heavy lifting themselves. Along with his jacks of course.
    Consider using Alten Ashley instead of Kell Bailoch. Dual Shot is nice, but Grievous Wounds, and Uhlans are a very nice package! Especially if you can afford to run a Iron Fang Kovnik to within 9" of the Uhlan's Charge target to give them precision strike!

    I think you should also consider a Rager instead of the Bokur. Maybe include one instead of a Juggernaut? It doesn't get nearly as much work done offensively, but it combines the Shield Guard butcher needs with the big 'jack body to get in the way when you need it.

    The Juggernaut is 7 points for ARM 20 and P+S 19.
    The Marauder is 7 points for the lols.

  15. #55
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I do try to write consistent battle reports, but I don't actually take any notes and I was writing them at the end of the day. It's more fool me, I always have intentions of actually bringing a way to record my battles, but I end up forgetting. His Mordikaar list was afaik.

    Mordikaar, Gladiator, Despoiler, Krea, 2 X Void Spirits, 1 full unit of Ferox with the Solo a full unit of blood runners and some beast handlers. I'm fairly certain he won all his matches that day, so he is an extremely good player. I always get jammed up on that feat. I suppose I could bring along Sorscha and freeze things, but I wouldn't want to have a list tailored to a single opponent.

    I know there are good benefits to the Ternion, I was just grumpy when i was writing my battle report. What i should have said was that I was useless with them. And a decimator seems like a good idea. I had no guns off my own to counter strike, apart from Kell and Butcher's blunderbuss (which I was tempted to use to win my last game with, thus proving Butcher is OP at shooting) so I literally ran into my opponents firing and tanked it out.

    I am tempted to pick up the new battlebox, which would give me a decimator. But trying to find Alten at the moment is like trying to find Hens teeth. And the new Beserker kit is on my to buy list too. And he will probably end up with Butcher as well.
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  16. #56
    Annihilator The Armchair Warrior's Avatar
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    Welshhoppo, it's great to see the battle repots on the B3 lists!

    In looking for points for ranged jacks, and/or fitting in a Rager, what do you feel was the least essential part of the list? As you know, I don't have much experience with B3 (which is one reason I'm delighted you necrothreaded this KGB), so I can only speculate.

    Me speculating, not because I have an opinion, but am interested in yours/others:

    The Drakhun, Bokur and Madelyn look like the least essential pieces - the Drakhun because you have Uhlans, the Bokur because you're fitting in a Rager, and Madelyn in order to find points for a ranged Jack... That would give you;

    Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
    - War Argus
    - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
    - Rager - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12
    - Decimator - PC: 16

    Kell Bailoch - PC: 5
    Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5
    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7

    (But yeah, if you don't have a Decimator you could put in another 16 point ranged Jack).

  17. #57
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Actually I find the Drakhun to be a very important piece for scenario play (I'm one of those kind of players) he hangs out with the Uhlans, they help to clear the flag/zone/warcaster and he goes in and scores. He also takes concentrated power to remove. Against Kreoss it took two Redeemers to take him out, and against Legion it took a a unit of raptors followed by a counter punching Ravagore to die (only because I rolled six damage on four dice) and it really helps to take the stress away from Butcher. I am unconvinced with Madelyn and I only used her because I had some points lying around and I Haven't used her yet.

    Some people will argue that the Bokur is really important. But I use him for slamming models out of zones.
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  18. #58
    Destroyer of Worlds beardedgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    Actually I find the Drakhun to be a very important piece for scenario play (I'm one of those kind of players) he hangs out with the Uhlans, they help to clear the flag/zone/warcaster and he goes in and scores. He also takes concentrated power to remove. Against Kreoss it took two Redeemers to take him out, and against Legion it took a a unit of raptors followed by a counter punching Ravagore to die (only because I rolled six damage on four dice) and it really helps to take the stress away from Butcher. I am unconvinced with Madelyn and I only used her because I had some points lying around and I Haven't used her yet.

    Some people will argue that the Bokur is really important. But I use him for slamming models out of zones.
    I like the way you think. Drakhuns for president. They're amazing and change the entire way an army activates, once someone encounters em a few times, they begin to act like control/denial pieces due to the fear factor.
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    Destroyer of Worlds Auracco's Avatar
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    I've been playing quite a lot with B3 these days, bought the ulhans in every list and they have never disapointed me so far, Silence of death makes them hit hard enough to reliably kill heavies. Next list I'm trying, I'm keeping the ulhans in but trying to fit the drakhun in there.

    The list I've got so far is this:
    Butcher3
    Ruin
    Behemoth
    Rager
    Bokur (on butcher)
    Ragman
    Midwinter
    Drakhun
    Gobber tinker
    Full ulhans

    Probably going to try it next game I get to play.

  20. #60

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    Do you have any special thoughts on the jack selection?
    Is it mostly a personal preference (besides Ruin who's in every list) because you really do see all kinds of jacks with B3, although Juggy/Kodiak/Dev seem most common.

    I am leaning towards a Dev to add to the scenario play but having another beatstick Juggy in there for if i lose Ruin early seems useful too. Most lists i made so far i cant fit in more than 3 jacks tho.
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  21. #61
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I used to run Big B and Ruin with B3, but I swapped him out for two juggernauts. Mainly so that I have more grunt on the board. Mostly because bringing about ten models to a 75pt game didn't seem right. And it helps me with my old bait and switch technique. It's harder to deal with Butcher whilst he is held up in a zone when I'm throwing Juggernauts at you. You can't do that with behemoth because he wants to stay out of trouble and lob things at people. Unless he is going in for the kill.
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  22. #62
    Destroyer of Worlds Auracco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelTitan View Post
    Do you have any special thoughts on the jack selection?
    Is it mostly a personal preference (besides Ruin who's in every list) because you really do see all kinds of jacks with B3, although Juggy/Kodiak/Dev seem most common.

    I am leaning towards a Dev to add to the scenario play but having another beatstick Juggy in there for if i lose Ruin early seems useful too. Most lists i made so far i cant fit in more than 3 jacks tho.
    I think Ruin is the only auto include with B3, the rest is pretty much up to you. Juggy are cheap and require a lot of ressources to get off the board, kodiaks are awesome and bring a good source of anti infantry and pathfinder, clamjacks are good for scenario play, behemoth is behemoth, I don't think he's ever going to disapoint and in a butcher3 list you usually have some shield guard so he shouldn't get shot off the board so easily.

  23. #63
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Arise once more! For another report! I played circle twice tonight. Once with Irusk2 and once with B3. Only 1 is Important here. So here is my list.


    War Room Army

    Khador - Butcher3

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army


    Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
    - War Argus
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
    - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
    - Kodiak - PC: 13

    Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 4
    Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
    Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
    Kell Bailoch - PC: 5
    Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5
    Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5

    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

    Scenario was the one with the 1 rectangular zone with a flag on each side. I lost the roll off and went second. Which was okay because I went first with Irusk in my previous game.

    He brought Kromac2, the WoldGargossal, Ghetorix, a Feral, a Satyr which had a silly no push animus, a black clad, a stone keeper to heal the colossal, and a medium based solo I can't remember the name of. But he had lightning.


    Picture of deployment. I didn't take any others as my potato was low on battery.

    He runs up first turn, shoving retaliatory strike on Ghetorix, spiny growth on himself and the no knock down animus. And the spell that lets Animi be cast for free. Everything just moves into a better postion.

    My Uhlans hide behind a wall, He advanced the Feral a tiny bit too far and he took two Kell shots to the face. The Drakhun advanced and hid behind a forest, the Jacks moved up. Uhlans got silenced of Deathed and Butcher and his crew advances towards the zone. The assassins run in front of my jacks.

    Ghetorix charges a Uhlan (silly me) and kills him, standing in front of them. The stones and the black clad do some silly placing to just engage the Drakhun. Allowing the Feral to warp speed and charge my Juggernaut. He leaves him on six boxes. The Satyr runs to engage my Kodiak, because he had a good charge lane into Ghetorix. Kromac advances and toes the zone and feats. The Gargantuan runs to block a charge Lane to Butcher. That solo uses Chain lightning on my objective, toasted the Kayazy due to bad placement.

    I decide a silly assassination attempt which would have involved destroying my objective and getting a charge into Kromac with Ruin followed by an energising butcher with impending doom is too too risky, so I go for the grind. Kodiak gets 1 and the Juggenraut gets 1 (it had right arm and cortex. All a Jack ever needs.) the Drakhun advances to engage the Feral and the Blackclad simultaneously, kicking the black clad to death and doing a few boxes to the Feral. The juggernaut activates and with three attacks leaves the feral on 6, Kell shoots twice, hitting the feral once and doing no damage to the Juggernaut with the miss. The Gobber moves out the way, allowing Butcher to advance to melee range of the Satyr, it takes all 3 of my focus to kill it, so I feat and pull Butcher out of Kromacs melee, I move Ruin forward and the Juggernaut sideways. I said I had a lovely charge on Ghetorix with the Kodiak. So I decided to ruin it and energise him out of my line of sight like an idiot. Ruin gets a soul from the satyr.
    The Bokur charges the Feral and takes out his last box. Ruin gains another soul. The Kodiak can't charge Ghetorix and is out of walking distance, so he runs to engage both him and the colossal. I manage to get three Uhlans to charge Ghetorix with lateral charges, one misses but the other two take out about half his boxes. Finally Ruin charges Kromac. But with transfers and health he leaves him on 7 boxes. The Kovnik charges the Gargantuan because he can.

    My opponent knows he can't really come back, but goes for getting as many kills as possible. Ghetorix eats the last Uhlans and scratches the Kodiak, but the Wold finishes him off. The solo and Kromac kill Ruin, but it takes all his fury to do so.

    My turn. I use a juggernaut to kill a stone and move out of Kells way. Kell double taps Kromac leaving him on 1. Seeing his chance, Orin walks up and chain lightnings the Tharn, killing him. Khador Victory!
    Last edited by Welshhoppo; 09-21-2016 at 10:56 PM.
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  24. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    Arise once more! For another report! I played circle twice tonight. Once with Irusk2 and once with B3. Only 1 is Important here. So here is my list.


    War Room Army

    Khador - Butcher3

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army


    Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
    - War Argus
    - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
    - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
    - Kodiak - PC: 13

    Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 4
    Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
    Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
    Kell Bailoch - PC: 5
    Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5
    Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5

    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

    Scenario was the one with the 1 rectangular zone with a flag on each side. I lost the roll off and went second. Which was okay because I went first with Irusk in my previous game.

    He brought Kromac2, the WoldGargossal, Ghetorix, a Feral, a Satyr which had a silly no push animus, a black clad, a stone keeper to heal the colossal, and a medium based solo I can't remember the name of. But he had lightning.

    He runs up first turn, shoving retaliatory strike on Ghetorix, spiny growth on himself and the no knock down animus. And the spell that lets Animi be cast for free. Everything just moves into a better postion.

    My Uhlans hide behind a wall, He advanced the Feral a tiny bit too far and he took two Kell shots to the face. The Drakhun advanced and hid behind a forest, the Jacks moved up. Uhlans got silenced of Deathed and Butcher and his crew advances towards the zone. The assassins run in front of my jacks.

    Ghetorix charges a Uhlan (silly me) and kills him, standing in front of them. The stones and the black clad do some silly placing to just engage the Drakhun. Allowing the Feral to warp speed and charge my Juggernaut. He leaves him on six boxes. The Satyr runs to engage my Kodiak, because he had a good charge lane into Ghetorix. Kromac advances and toes the zone and feats. The Gargantuan runs to block a charge Lane to Butcher. That solo uses Chain lightning on my objective, toasted the Kayazy due to bad placement.

    I decide a silly assassination attempt which would have involved destroying my objective and getting a charge into Kromac with Ruin followed by an energising butcher with impending doom is too too risky, so I go for the grind. Kodiak gets 1 and the Juggenraut gets 1 (it had right arm and cortex. All a Jack ever needs.) the Drakhun advances to engage the Feral and the Blackclad simultaneously, kicking the black clad to death and doing a few boxes to the Feral. The juggernaut activates and with three attacks leaves the feral on 6, Kell shoots twice, hitting the feral once and doing no damage to the Juggernaut with the miss. The Gobber moves out the way, allowing Butcher to advance to melee range of the Satyr, it takes all 3 of my focus to kill it, so I feat and pull Butcher out of Kromacs melee, I move Ruin forward and the Juggernaut sideways. I said I had a lovely charge on Ghetorix with the Kodiak. So I decided to ruin it and energise him out of my line of sight like an idiot. Ruin gets a soul from the satyr.
    The Bokur charges the Feral and takes out his last box. Ruin gains another soul. The Kodiak can't charge Ghetorix and is out of walking distance, so he runs to engage both him and the colossal. I manage to get three Uhlans to charge Ghetorix with lateral charges, one misses but the other two take out about half his boxes. Finally Ruin charges Kromac. But with transfers and health he leaves him on 7 boxes. The Kovnik charges the Gargantuan because he can.

    My opponent knows he can't really come back, but goes for getting as many kills as possible. Ghetorix eats the last Uhlans and scratches the Kodiak, but the Wold finishes him off. The solo and Kromac kill Ruin, but it takes all his fury to do so.

    My turn. I use a juggernaut to kill a stone and move out of Kells way. Kell double taps Kromac leaving him on 1. Seeing his chance, Orin walks up and chain lightnings the Tharn, killing him. Khador Victory!
    Yay Moar Butcher love!!

  25. #65
    Destroyer of Worlds The Buoyancy of Water's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report!

    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    That solo uses Chain lightning on my objective, toasted the Kayazy due to bad placement.
    If that was the first players second turn they shouldn't have been able to target your objective.

    Cheers,
    Dave
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  26. #66
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I thought an objective couldn't be damaged until the second players second turn? Or is it no targetting?
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  27. #67
    Destroyer of Worlds Auracco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    I thought an objective couldn't be damaged until the second players second turn? Or is it no targetting?
    I think it's both.

  28. #68
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Oh well, they wouldn't have done much anyway. At most I was going to run them to engage Kromac or the Wold. Just to annoy his order of activation.
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  29. #69
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    Played again tonight. Same list against Ossyian with Full Sentinals , Hypnos, Banshee, Full Invictors, Two units of Stormfalls and an arcanist. It was incursion and I went second.

    First turn he advances up no targets to shoot at. A nice forest takes up the middle of the board, causing annoyance to both of us.

    I move Uhlans up, but I'm pinned by the middle forest and 1 to my left. Kell remains in that forest because it is too much of a run to get to the next and there are four stormfall archers waiting to kill him if he leaves. My jacks run up on the right, the Drakhun goes in the middle with Butchers gang. The kayazys go near the forest, and my Gobber chases my jacks.

    He hits the Uhlans with Shadowbind, and kills the two that aren't bound by shadow (stupid Matt!) the Sentinals advance just to the other side of the forest. Luckily, the majority of my force is hidden by forests, so all he can do is get into a good place to shoot me once I go forward to contest. But he leaves the far right (to me) flag uncontested due to a lack of movement and models with pathfinder.

    I go for some things, Kell scrapes out Hypnos 5th column. The Kovnik runs to engage the Stormfalls, and he admonitions Hypnos a little back, leaving him still contesting. The Kayazy charge a stormfall and a Sentinals, killing two Stormfalls and two Sentinals before getting annoying. The Kodiak charges the two Sentinals nearest my right flag, killing both. The Juggernaut runs to control it. Ruin charges another Sentinals and kills him. The Drakhun runs right, getting ready to be annoying. Butcher and his gang move up some more. I get a point.

    Vengeance goes off and the Sentinals move. The Drakhun counter charges and the impact attack kills a Sentinals and my own Kayazy (stupider Matt!) leaving only 1 engaging his invictors, which really helps. His Sentinals then kill my Kovnik. Ossyian puts dead eye on both Stormfalls and I think the Invictors, he then feats catching both of my jacks, the Drakhun and a few other models who are hiding behind that forest. At the end of the turn, my Drakhun and Ruin are dead, my Uhlans are still Shadowbound and continue to be useless, but he didn't do enough damage. We both score 1 point.

    Kell scrapes out Hypnos' 5th column, taking his cortex out. The Kayazy gets into combat with the Sentinals soulless escort and pings him. Then side steps to Ossyian, giving him a teenage knife welding anime gymnast hug. For 3 points of damage. The Juggernaut charges a Sentinal and kills him. The Kodiak charges a banshee who admonitions away so he steams instead and melts 2 more Sentinals. The Gobber runs to my flag to control again. The Bokur kills a Sentinal Orin fries some more leaving him with just 2. And Butchers Dogs charge the remaining two. Fluffing their attacks but leaving Butxher far enough away to not get walked into by the Banshee.

    Knowing that he has no way of killing my jacks before they get to his caster, he tries to kill Butcher. Ossyian moves forward getting ankle tapped by the Kayazy for nothing. He walks into the forest and shots Butxher with his gun. Which gets shield guarded onto the Bokur for a few points. The Banshee toes the forest and hits butcher with his knockdown cannon, flooring him. Three Stormfalls from both units can get into hitting range, along with Hypnos and eight invictors. But with 4 focus they can only do 15 damage to Butcher.

    My last turn, Butcher shakes knockdown and Shadowbound for 2 focus, charges the Sentinal in front of Ossyian, kills him with a charge attack, buys 1 into Ossyian and gets the 13 to kill him on the first hit. Khador Victory.

    Morale of the story, don't let Hypnos Shadowbind your bloody Uhlans for three turns of the game. I think Irusk2 would have gone a lot better. But our last match was Irusk vs Vyros, so we decided to play alternate lists today. I am tempted to drop the Kovnik and bring Saxon, just because I have a lot of charging pathfinder but not a lot of running pathfinder.
    Final Mark II record 45W/0D/37L
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    You've just been Decimated!
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  30. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welshhoppo View Post
    Played again tonight. Same list against Ossyian with Full Sentinals , Hypnos, Banshee, Full Invictors, Two units of Stormfalls and an arcanist. It was incursion and I went second.

    First turn he advances up no targets to shoot at. A nice forest takes up the middle of the board, causing annoyance to both of us.

    I move Uhlans up, but I'm pinned by the middle forest and 1 to my left. Kell remains in that forest because it is too much of a run to get to the next and there are four stormfall archers waiting to kill him if he leaves. My jacks run up on the right, the Drakhun goes in the middle with Butchers gang. The kayazys go near the forest, and my Gobber chases my jacks.

    He hits the Uhlans with Shadowbind, and kills the two that aren't bound by shadow (stupid Matt!) the Sentinals advance just to the other side of the forest. Luckily, the majority of my force is hidden by forests, so all he can do is get into a good place to shoot me once I go forward to contest. But he leaves the far right (to me) flag uncontested due to a lack of movement and models with pathfinder.

    I go for some things, Kell scrapes out Hypnos 5th column. The Kovnik runs to engage the Stormfalls, and he admonitions Hypnos a little back, leaving him still contesting. The Kayazy charge a stormfall and a Sentinals, killing two Stormfalls and two Sentinals before getting annoying. The Kodiak charges the two Sentinals nearest my right flag, killing both. The Juggernaut runs to control it. Ruin charges another Sentinals and kills him. The Drakhun runs right, getting ready to be annoying. Butcher and his gang move up some more. I get a point.

    Vengeance goes off and the Sentinals move. The Drakhun counter charges and the impact attack kills a Sentinals and my own Kayazy (stupider Matt!) leaving only 1 engaging his invictors, which really helps. His Sentinals then kill my Kovnik. Ossyian puts dead eye on both Stormfalls and I think the Invictors, he then feats catching both of my jacks, the Drakhun and a few other models who are hiding behind that forest. At the end of the turn, my Drakhun and Ruin are dead, my Uhlans are still Shadowbound and continue to be useless, but he didn't do enough damage. We both score 1 point.

    Kell scrapes out Hypnos' 5th column, taking his cortex out. The Kayazy gets into combat with the Sentinals soulless escort and pings him. Then side steps to Ossyian, giving him a teenage knife welding anime gymnast hug. For 3 points of damage. The Juggernaut charges a Sentinal and kills him. The Kodiak charges a banshee who admonitions away so he steams instead and melts 2 more Sentinals. The Gobber runs to my flag to control again. The Bokur kills a Sentinal Orin fries some more leaving him with just 2. And Butchers Dogs charge the remaining two. Fluffing their attacks but leaving Butxher far enough away to not get walked into by the Banshee.

    Knowing that he has no way of killing my jacks before they get to his caster, he tries to kill Butcher. Ossyian moves forward getting ankle tapped by the Kayazy for nothing. He walks into the forest and shots Butxher with his gun. Which gets shield guarded onto the Bokur for a few points. The Banshee toes the forest and hits butcher with his knockdown cannon, flooring him. Three Stormfalls from both units can get into hitting range, along with Hypnos and eight invictors. But with 4 focus they can only do 15 damage to Butcher.

    My last turn, Butcher shakes knockdown and Shadowbound for 2 focus, charges the Sentinal in front of Ossyian, kills him with a charge attack, buys 1 into Ossyian and gets the 13 to kill him on the first hit. Khador Victory.

    Morale of the story, don't let Hypnos Shadowbind your bloody Uhlans for three turns of the game. I think Irusk2 would have gone a lot better. But our last match was Irusk vs Vyros, so we decided to play alternate lists today. I am tempted to drop the Kovnik and bring Saxon, just because I have a lot of charging pathfinder but not a lot of running pathfinder.
    Awesome write up!

    Love hearing about the different b3 games and the challenges faced.

    I wish there was a way to avoid KD (for cheap), but then he would be ridiculous to kill

  31. #71
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I also wish that we had ways of avoiding knockdown, but then I think he would be too good. Ideally I should have shield guarded the banshee shot. But that would have freed up a Sentinal and then he would have charged Butcher, so I'm not sure if that would have been a better move.
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  32. #72

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    I received most of the models to start playing B3 and can proxy the few remaining ones, so Im looking forward to contribute to this thread soon (from a noob point of view ^^). Im currently trying to get more practise with the SR scenarios by playing against my second list (Sorscha1) and get a feel for deployment, opening moves, scenario tactics, army rules, etc. Playing against an actual opppnent generally doesnt happen more than once a week and that doesnt allow me to go through the basics learning curve fast enough.

    @Welshhoppo: i basically play your list but with a deciminator (more because i just want to use the model than anything else and i tell myself the beat back might complement B3s scenario game).

    In my first game (against myself), i felt the lack of ranged elements dangerous. No longer range spot removal tools for getting rid of support models or snipers (or enemy rocketeers that take out Uhlans) that threaten Butcher, Uhlans, etc was uncomfortable.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    Also, do you typically keep Orin as dedicated Butcher tech and fill other gaps with Ruin? Having Uhlans (deployed furher away from Butcher) being taken out of the game because of Freezing Grip isnt fun. Orin wont be able to keep up with them and i felt Ruin should stay closer to Butcher.
    Last edited by SteelTitan; 10-08-2016 at 11:40 PM.
    MK3 Track Record: B3 (6/1), B1 (1/3), S1 (1/2)

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  33. #73
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I haven't used a deimator yet. But my girlfriend just painted one for me and was all like "Look at my hard work Senpai! Are you proud of me? You'd better use it or ill rip your head off!" (Or something along those lines, too much anime rots ya brain. Be safe kids!)

    I do admit that there are issues with no ranged support outside of Kell. But in my opinion my list runs on extreme target over saturation. I'm not worried about rockets because you can't bring enough to take care of all my heavier hitters before they get to you. I mean I've played this against Ossyian and Kreoss with all the Redeemers and still came out the other end covered in blood and begging for my mother...... But I still won!

    As for Ruin and Orin, I like to keep him close to Butcher because I often Send ruin ahead as the vanguard and use him as bait with his two buddies. Besides he needs enemy souls to use his vortex and he isn't getting them if he camps around Butcher and then it bothers my target saturation too. But that is just me. If I was going against someone who had freezing grip, maybe I would keep him near my cav. But I'm not sure, it would be situational.
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    You've just been Decimated!
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  34. #74
    Destroyer of Worlds Khador247's Avatar
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    I played B3 for the first time in MK3 yesterday. He was my favorite MK2 caster by far but I've wanted to try some other stuff. Anyway, first game I lost to Lylith3 via assassination. I scared her with a Juggy but didn't kill her. Second game I won on assassination after surviving a Madrak2 assassination run with one box of health left. The DEF bonus from the Wardog is what allowed him to live.

    My list was this: Butcher3, Ruin, Juggy, Juggy, Widowmakers, MOW Kovnik, max MOW ST, 2 Bokurs, Saxon, Ragman, Midwinter.
    Thoughts...The MOW didn't accomplish much. I think I could spend those points more wisely. 2 Bokurs was overkill. Ragman took control of a Fennblade and made him kill another. Aside from that he wasn't useful. Midwinter didn't need to negate any spells but did kill a couple of Fennblades with Chain Lightning. Love that he comes with power tokens. Widowmakers did a good job. Not a great job of list building on my part and not a great display of gaming by me either. My other list was Zerkova1. It was D&C:1. I played her once and got romped.

  35. #75

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    I got a very specific strategic question with regards to playing B3 on the SR2016 Entrenched scenario (or maybe all scenarios where there is a 1 and 2 point scenario element in play).

    Based on which factors do you decide to have Butcher go for the friendly or the enemy zone/flag/etc.?

    In my tests, I've been keeping him on my zone which is working well. His army has such attrition potential, to keep the enemy occupied and keep them from scoring on their own zone. In the meantime, Butcher can clear his own zone but still reach out outside of the zone with Impending Doom and moving back with Energizer.

    I can see him adding a lot if I use him more aggressively and go for the enemy zone/flag (*kill kill kill*) but you give up the chance to score on your own zone.
    MK3 Track Record: B3 (6/1), B1 (1/3), S1 (1/2)

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  36. #76
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    I go for my own zone every time.

  37. #77
    Destroyer of Worlds Welshhoppo's Avatar
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    I always seem to end up in my enemies zone, naked and hungover and with no idea how I got there...... Or I may be talking about my social life......

    I try and position in order to be in a position to get to both. If I can grab an easy 2 points by running butcher in full camp into the enemy zone and control mine, I'll do it 9/10 times unless I was at a real risk of dying and losing. Like against Kreoss I was able to snuggle behind a forest and play it safe. But I will quite happy sit in my own zone and butcher anything that comes in it and attrition to victory.
    Final Mark II record 45W/0D/37L
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent100 View Post
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  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelTitan View Post
    Based on which factors do you decide to have Butcher go for the friendly or the enemy zone/flag/etc.?
    Here're my musings on B3 scenario play. First of all I highly recommend the Druid's Dice scenario play analysis found here:http://privateerpressforums.com/show...Plans-for-each

    Straigt to your topic. What I found interesting for B3 scenario play in dominate zones scenarios:Entrenched, Pit, Outflank is that you can dominate own scenario element and place your Argus in the enemy one at the same time. Cause the distance is only 8". Of course this is terrain dependent. BUT B3's treat range including vengeance (cause your opponent clearly wants to kill that Argus to score something) is enough to reach anything but the furthermost corner of the other scenario element.

    So that means - you go for your own zone. Deny your opponent his scenario element and then you only have to be carefull not to overexpose.

    I wonder if you have any similar hints for flag-based scenarios?

  39. #79

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    I already read through Druid's scenario guides, they are great. They are also what inspired me to focus more on scenario play, which I'm now trying to do by doing practise games against my own second list. I did two Entrenched games this week and will play an actual opponent tomorrow, which would be my first time with B3.

    Great idea on the Argus. I love the fact that B3 has them, it adds so much to his play.
    MK3 Track Record: B3 (6/1), B1 (1/3), S1 (1/2)

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  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelTitan View Post
    Great idea on the Argus. I love the fact that B3 has them, it adds so much to his play.
    I'm in the same boat - playing B3 currently (played him once only in MkII) - and trying to do scenario plays.
    I found out that opponents avoid touching Argus' at all costs unless going for assasination. So here is finally the way to make them to take hard decision

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