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  1. #1

    Default WTC England Knights - battle reports

    In a similar vein to TobyN from England Roses, I thought I would provide a write up on my games from the WTC this weekend. I played on Team England Knights, we managed to go 4-2 overall as a team, and come 16th. I took Grim2 and Grissel2, and somehow managed go 6-0……but there were some ridiculously close results (see below), so I could very very easily have ended up with a couple of losses.

    Lists are below. In high level summary, I decided to take a Mountain King in both lists, and try and bait out some of the heavier hitting match ups. I felt that Grim2 (Mortality) and Grissel2 (KD and Unyielding/Wailing) would be able to cope with these kinds of match ups, plus both have good assassination options.

    Grim2
    Runebearer
    Mountain King
    Swamp Troll
    Impaler
    Bouncer
    Min stone plus Elder
    Dhunia Knot
    Max Highwaymen
    Swamp Gobber Chef x 2
    Stockpile

    Grissel2
    Mountain King
    Bomber
    Janissa
    Swamp Gobber Chef
    Min Stone plus Elder
    Dhunia Knot
    Min Warders
    Min Burrowers
    Runeshapers
    Bunker

    The Grim list above probably deserves some explanation. I’ve played Grim2 as one of my caster pair for close to 2 years now so wanted to take him to the WTC (the event was his final farewell tour, he’s retiring now so I can explore new casters!). The concept of his Mark3 list is to keep the MK back till late game/all the threats to him have gone, and do the initial trading up with the lights. The selection of lights (Swamp, Impaler, Bouncer) does initially look odd but the idea is that between Mortality, Rage and Stone Str you can get a +6 damage buff (plus also Mat buffs via mortality, deafen or just simply KD). Also, Grim just needs to hit the target to give Blood Lure, so that gives an extra attack via the free charge. To give an example, you can have a Swamp Troll with 5 pow 18 attacks…. So you can pretty much take any light you want, use them in their primary role and then switch up for a melee role when the opportunity presents.

    Where you might expect to see say an Axer for a melee light, I chose my lights to fulfil specific roles – Bouncer for Grev Wds protection and Earths Blessing, Impaler for Far strike, Swamp for crit consume/drag and Swarm animus. I also looked for other melee synergies – Swamp Troll has natural pathfinder, Imapler has reach, Bouncer has chain weapon to ignore shields etc. Further synergies come from the feat turn snipe allowing the Impaler to be raged (and stone strengthed) for that one turn to give a potential range 12” pow 17 shot. I then lead with whichever light I can afford to give up first given the particular match up – for example, if no Grevious Wds, then the Bouncer would act as screen for MK.

    With Mage Sight and feat, I can scalpel out what I need to, then when the game switches to melee, all of the lights can punch surprisingly hard in melee. Backing all of this up are Dhunia Knot re-rolls, to make everything more consistent, in particular landing the mortality – this is crucial for the game plan. I’m often having an initial go with a puppet mastered Runebearer, which really helps lighten the load on Grim, allowing him to dish out more animi instead, or land a second mortality. The list also has some specific tactics into Madrak and Wurmwood – both of which I played in the event, so have commented on these below.

    Game 1 – vs Greece Prime, Grissel2 vs Butcher3
    Scenario is Incursion, and I spot that the game is going away from me, as my opponent quickly works out exactly where my main contesting piece, the MK, will need to be sitting (between two of the flags to contest both) and is lining up his heavies accordingly, and on the third flag he’s got an immovable devastator. So I go for an assassination run on a fully camping Butcher3. I’m not happy about having to go all in for this - I am offering up my army, am convinced I’ll lose if I don’t kill him on this run, and it’s not that great odds. MK goes first, assaults and lands the deafen spray for -2 def on Butcher, and doing a below average chunk of damage. I then go with Grissel, who hits and KDs Butcher and shoots him two more times, all with boosted damage. Against all these shots he is Arm 23, so I’m only doing small bits of damage. The Bomber shoots him twice, again boosted damage, but I leave him on 3 health… uh oh. Grissel is camping 1 fury, she’s also standing in difficult terrain.

    My opponent starts his turn and immediately goes with Butcher, I think it is so obvious to him that he’s going to kill Grissel. I point out that Deafen means he can’t give or receive orders, and as his argii are still around he’s a unit, so cant issue the charge order (I believe he could have killed the argus with his own models first, thus turning Butcher back into a solo warcaster, allowing him to charge – but this does not come up/occur to him). So after spending 1 focus to get up, he then has to spend 2 focus to get the distance via Energiser (instead of charging the extra 3” for free), then advances. He then casts Impending Doom, but due to Grissel being in terrain, this only drags her 2.5” not 5”, and is just out of melee range. So he has to waste his 6th focus, feats to get 6 focus back again, spending 2 more to do another Impending Doom. So he now has Grissel in range, for his initial attack plus 4 more focus. Between a couple of misses (he needs 6s to hit), my one transfer and taking some of the lower damage rolls, he somehow leaves Grissel on one wound. The rest of his turn is spent trying to get the last damage onto Grissel, mainly from an Orin e-leap (survive the pow10), and sniper shots but def 19 prevents this. I somehow survive, and then kill him the following turn. Stupidly lucky to get out of that game with a win, the terrain was crucial in wasting 3 focus/attacks for him (but my team loses the round 2-3 anyway).

    Game2 – vs Swiss Chocolate, Grissel vs Magister Hylena.
    Scenario is Recon, and there’s a wall in the middle of the zone which prevents my MK from charging to his jacks on the far side of the zone, and he doesn’t have pathfinder to cross it, and if he goes to the other side of it then he’s in MK threat range. So a staring contest ensues, with him just boosting shots into the MK for most of the game, which I then heal back up with whelps and Dhunia Knot healing.

    He’s chosen to go second and deploys his sentinel unit on the opposite side to the MK, which was a pain – as my plan for sentinels (especially with Hylena as you can use her arm buffing feat and spells to your advantage) was to deafen spray the leader with MK. With all the arm buffs on sentinels and choosing not to boost a damage roll, the MK was unlikely to kill him, thus denying the CA the ability to issue orders (and any others you hit the ability to charge). Those sentinels are using that 4th charge dice to do the real damage on the charge (ie 3D6 attack on Arm 21 MK is 1pt of damage, 4D6 is 4-5pts damage), so it is a good way of controlling them. If you really want to bamboozle them, you can wail the MK, so any that vengeance in then can’t charge.

    In the end, I lose my bomber to dealing with the sentinels, which instantly reduces the assassination threat on Grissel (loses far strike, so still have 10” spray, but only pow 12 and no KD). He then starts coming in closer with his jacks. He gets into melee with the MK with Disco and a Banshee, but fails to kill it. He also doesn’t get any critical Grevious Wounds from the Banshee (more luck for me!). The two jacks are close enough to each other, that Grissel can walk round and shoot one (boosted 6s with Knot re-roll vs def 16 in melee) which knocks both down. So raged MK makes short work of those two.

    He sends two more jacks in, and finally does finish the MK, but times out. I only had 20secs or so left myself, so a super grindy game. I didn’t really have a scenario win condition in this one, until he commits his jacks to me in melee, and losing the bomber meant his caster was largely safe, so I had to just try and keep alive.

    Game3 – vs Ireland Ceol, Grim2 vs Madrak2
    Scenario was Outlast, my Madrak opponent runs screaming across the board with Madrak2 surrounded by 2 full units of warders plus Sons of Bragg in close attendance. Rok, Bouncer and Axer following close behind. I’m slightly nervous of this large brick hurtling towards me!! So I decide to try and take out a large chunk of the beef, and see what Madrak then decides to do. Mortality goes on one unit of warders, the MK charges the nearest one. His assault spray catches 6 warders and a SOB. After that, the charge attack, another couple of punches and a killshot spray, I’ve killed the SOB and about 4 warders, and chipped a few wounds off some of the others. I was intending to soften up as many mortalitied warders as I could with the MK, to then make it easier for the Highwaymen to finish them off (fewer wounds left, no tough). Grim feats, shoots a warder to trigger blood lure, casts rage on the impaler, and reforms as far away as possible, traps laid in between him and Madrak.

    Highwaymen continue to shoot warders, impaler charges one, bouncer charges another. These last two beasts are really close to Madrak, and are intending to be road blocks. The Highwaymen are close enough to Madrak that he could surf through them, so the Swamp Troll goes and stands at the end of the chain, as a ‘fire break’. If he wants to surf through and go for my caster, I’m thinking that he will need to spend several fury to kill the swamp troll so net loss of fury. I’ve done this before against madrak – give him the option of surfing but having a hard target at the end which forces him to spend fury either on blood fury or attacks. It’s also helpful to rile up those fire break beasts, as if madrak does go for the assn run, you can reave the fury back as he comes through (ie after he’s committed to it) to suddenly make the caster kill odds much worse for him.

    I then pass the turn and await the Madrak decision – assn run or not!! At this point, I’m thinking I want him to go for the assn run on Grim, as the attrition play is probably stronger for him. Rather than starting far away and coming through the highwaymen towards my caster, he could kill the swamp troll, and then surf back away through the highwaymen to clear the zone, score 2CPs and be well out of my reach. A Primalled rok could also do some serious damage to the MK – but I’ve put impaler and bouncer in madrak’s way, so if he wants to go for the assn, then he has to use rok to clear at least the impaler, maybe the bouncer too.

    He decides to go for the assn run, as he says surfing through medium bases is harder than you think (as they are naturally more spread out, when compared to small bases and his 1” move and 2” reach often struggles to keep going). So Rok kills bouncer and impaler (I’d foolishly charged bouncer max distance and just out of stone aura, when I could have stayed in the aura and still been in 2” melee on the warder he charged), and snacks to deny me the fury.

    The route is now clear for Madrak, who surfs through the stone unit to arrive at Grim with 9 fury. Crucially, the fell caller was too far back to war cry madrak, so he’s only mat 8 vs Grim’s def 16. He spends 2 on blood fury (I’m not sure that was the right call, its straight damage anyway, I have two transfers, I’d rather be dealing with fewer slightly heavier hits). He has a terrible damage roll on his first hit from the feat (5 on 3D6), so I take that. He then misses a boosted 8 to hit on his first bought attack. By this point he’s down to 5 fury and I still have 2 transfers and the ability to probably take one more damage roll. So he switches to trying to hard roll 8s, and proceeds to miss all 5…..

    So this is how you tank a Madrak2 9 fury assassination run – I didn’t even need to use any of my transfers….. [During my previous turn, I was debating putting swamp troll animus on Grim for Def18 in melee – but was slightly concerned this would put him off too much and push him towards the attrition play, seeing as he couldn’t get the fell caller bonus onto madrak. It is another option however – and in most situations, probably needed to offset the fell caller war cry bonus ie keep it at 8s to hit Grim.]

    Grim then casually mortalities Madrak2 and rifle butts him into the ground!!

    Day 2 to follow soon....
    Last edited by AndyG; 09-28-2016 at 01:16 AM.

  2. #2

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    Game 4 – vs Scotland Bru, Grim2 vs Wurmwood

    The Grim list has some specific anti-Wurmwood tech in it (Mage Sight, Swamp drags/crit consumes, Mortality, Pursuit, Earth’s Blessing to stop Hellmouths, the Traps), and so I was keen to try it out for real! We were playing Extraction, which I was a little concerned about as its quite a live scenario, and the flags are all the way on the middle line ie I need to get models up to 20” on the board just to contest.

    My opponent’s list had three heavies (Stalker, Feral and Megalith) plus Reeves. In my prep, I’d found my list was ok (as in 50/50) into 3 heavies, but struggled where there was 4 heavies, simply due to the extreme threat ranges the hellmouth drags on his own beasts can generate.

    As the Wurmwood list advances, my strategy was to move the MK out of threat range of one of the beasts, use my feat, Mage Sight, and Mortality to take out or severely injure one beast (ideally the Feral to remove Primal), and accept that I’d be in charge range of the third beast. I’m essentially accepting that the MK will be strangleheld and/or curse of shadowed (and in fact knowing that’s what they are trying to do gives me the opportunity to snipe out Cassius, Megalith and/or stones), but using his ability to tank one heavy, retaliate and heal back up to allow me back into the game. If they want to stronghold me, then they can damn well bring their beasts into my melee range for the MK to kill !! This is why the 4 heavy version gives my list a problem (if there’s a 4th heavy I struggle to escape from it, and can’t afford the MK to be charged by two - or it means I spread my damage across two beasts and run the risk of not disabling either).

    However, my previous experience against Wurmwood has been when the tree and its beasts come straight across the table to really threaten my whole line. I’m therefore a bit surprised when my opponent plays a much more cagey game, using Cassius early on to deliver strangleholds, and then always porting back to Wurmwood on the other side of the board. This is causing me issues, so the Bouncer has to put up Earth Blessing (to stop being dragged via Hellmouth) and walk up to contest a flag. I manage to drop some traps around him, which means he would have to send in Megalith to deal with him (if traps cause damage, the model is KD’d and Megalith is steady – he correctly doesn’t want to risk giving away a Stalker for free on an 8+ on 2D6). The strangleheld MK is simply walking up behind the Bouncer, threatening to charge, or at least spray, whatever comes into the Bouncer.

    On the left hand side of the board, Highwaymen are facing off against the Reeves, and a Feral is lurking behind too. The Reeves come up and volley into the trolls, but although they potentially have 20 shots, their pow 8 vs arm 14 means he decides to CRAs in 3s, and so after a couple of toughs I’m still left with 7 highwaymen.

    With my right hand side in an uncomfortable stand off (Bouncer and MK vs Megalith and threatening Stalker), I decide to try and turn the tide on the left. There’s a handy forest right in the middle of the board, which is ironically hindering him more than me. I’ve set up Grim plus Impaler and Swamp behind this, as with Mage Sight I can shoot through to the other side but he can’t see through it.

    Some manikins are in the forest, one gets KD’d, Grim puts mortality on the unit, drops Mage Sight over the Sentry stone itself and shoots it doing half damage. Impaler finishes it off – always good to get rid of those things. Puppet mastered Runebearer drops Mortality onto the Reeves, Highwaymen step up and need 6s to hit with auto kills – so gut most of the unit. Swamp shoots another and moves up nearer the left flag in anticipation of the feral coming in.

    Next turn he sends the Feral into the closest highwaymen, kills a few, warps for Armour and stands on the flag, but a gobber chef is hiding out contesting the flag behind this crucial forest. In retaliation, Mortality is applied to the Feral, and he’s shot up a bit by CRAs from remaining highwaymen. Again, Mage Sight goes down, Feral is blood lured from Grim shot, Rage is applied to Swamp, and he charges through the forest and finishes off the Feral (damage is at dice -1, as Feral had warped armour). In response, my opponent steps up on the right hand side, Bouncer goes down and he does start to score CPs on that side, with the MK again strangleheld.
    My attrition plan is working but he is starting to look strong on scenario, and given I can’t get hold of Cassius, he is always threatening a run to the flag and port up Wurmwood to deliver the feat and really race away with the scenario game.

    There’s then a key turn where Megalith rather than Cassius comes up to Stranglehold the MK. He does so, but as the spell is 10” range, means I can shoot him. Cassius moves and sits on the right flag, and Wurmwood starts to move into the middle of the board via a stone port, ready to go over to the left flag, or get Dark Pathed over to right flag, and likely feat.

    Mortality goes on Megalith, Impaler gets raged and he and MK shoot at Megalith, knocking out his spirit. Grim kills Cassius.
    The following turn there is no stronghold on MK, as Megalith has retreated back to the flag out of 10” of the MK for another CP (plus without the ability to heal his spirit, he couldn’t do much anyway), he’s up to 3 CPs by this point. So MK charges and kills Megalith and is now contesting the flag. With only the Stalker left (and no Primal from the Feral), I’m fairly happy I have that flag locked down. The turn after I may be able to start scoring myself with the MK.

    Stalker has moved away from threatening the MK (obviously bored of there always being traps in the way – I was concerned he would try and scalpel out Krump, but I guess he was focussed on locking down the MK) and takes out the Swamp Troll. Same thing happens as the earlier Swamp vs Feral scrap – the Impaler gets Raged up, Mage Sight goes down and Impaler charges the Stalker - doesn’t kill it, but leaves it pretty injured and unable to heal.

    By the point, time is low for both players, and he’s at 3-1 on scenario. Wurmwood gets ported over to the left flag, my opponent thinks he has won, as he believed it was 2CPs for dominate. Runebearer drops Mortality onto the tree, the MK heads over, sprays him for something like 12 damage, which he transfers to the Stalker killing it (his last beast) and still causing the tree 2 wounds. Impaler is Raged again, walks over and stabs tree to death.

    A very long, close grindy game, and although I was continually taking models away from him, he was able to get ahead on the scenario. If he doesn’t port the tree onto the flag, I will quickly be scoring, potentially even scoring on his turn too if I can kill a couple of shifting stones. So I think I win by scenario anyway from this late game point. The key to turning the game was bringing the MK back into the game (took me way longer than I hoped to engineer this) and effectively taking down/tying up his final beast. The tactics of using my powered up lights to take on the Circle heavies worked well.
    Last edited by AndyG; 09-28-2016 at 08:19 AM.

  3. #3
    Annihilator Grabsnikk's Avatar
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    Congrats on your wins, those both look like very interesting lists. I'm very curious with how the Grim2 list plays, seems like not a lot of models but it can put out a lot of shots on the feat turn with highwaymen and double sprays from the King. Have you had any success with trying to drag in the opposing caster/lock with the Swamp Troll?
    Calandra

  4. #4
    Destroyer of Worlds Trollock's Avatar
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    Thanks for the great write up, and congrats on doing so well. The Grim vs Madrak game is one of the more interesting reads i have had on this forum. Very interesting thoughts and tactical play!

    oh, and btw, Snacking no longer prevents reaving, so you could have had more fury for transfers

  5. #5

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    FYI you can still reave fury from beasts that are removed from play. That's a change from Mark2.

  6. #6

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    @Grabsnikk - yes, it is a slightly odd looking Grim list!! The reason I've played Grim for so long is that Mortality allows you to be very flexible, and I take options for this list which continue that theme. My Mark2 version had a unit of croaks, full highwaymen plus Braylen, and fire eaters. All of those can mow down infantry (it was my cryx drop), or use their special rules (oil, CRA, boosted damage) to hurt hard targets. The same has been true for Mark3, but I find there is slightly less infantry out there. So against lots of guys, you have 20 highwaymen shots plus 1 or 2 10" sprays, or against hard targets you have the Highwaymen CRA options (I would have liked Braylen still in my mark 3 list, but points were too tight) and boosted Pow16 from the MK. I also find the lack of repair/healing from Mortality means you can often half cripple a beast, have their effectiveness reduced for the following turn (see Game 4 coming up) and then finish it off at your leisure in the next turn.

    The threat is def there for the drag with Swampy. I've not pulled off a caster drag yet, but at the UK Nationals I did drag in Laris from 17" away!!! You can also lay the traps right in front of where Swampy is going to be shooting from, so that when you drag something, there's a decent chance it arrives at Swampy's feet already KD'd!!!

    There's also the Crit Consume angle too, Swampy plus Mage Sight and Dhunia Knot is my Cassius hunting tech. Mage Sight doesn't ignore concealment, so lets assume Swampy moves to get his shot and there's no Mark the Target (so rat 6) on a Cassius with Concealment (so def 16), you need 10s to hit. With Knot re-roll, that's still an 87% chance of hitting and hopefully dragging in, and a 45% chance of just crit consuming him (I think the odds for the crit include re-rolling an earlier hit which does not have a crit, so might be slightly overstated, as at that point you'd prob just take the drag). If you can aim or get mark target, then with 8s to hit, the odds improve to 98% and 56%.

    @ Trollock, NinjaPete - thanks for pointing that out, I had (obviously) missed that!!
    Last edited by AndyG; 09-28-2016 at 04:50 AM.

  7. #7

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    Game 4 now added (sorry, that turned into an epic post - was quite an involved game though!!!)

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    Destroyer of Worlds Jota's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing, good read!

  9. #9
    Destroyer of Worlds Trollock's Avatar
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    Love the detailed thoughts outlined in game 4 too. Keep em coming

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    Game 5 – vs Scotland Irn, Grissel2 vs Amon
    Right, after round 4’s epic write up, this will be a quicker one. With the team having beaten Scotland Bru in the previous round, we get drawn vs Scotland Irn, who are threatening vengeance for their fallen comrades!! I get drawn vs Menoth, and with Grim2 only having one magical weapon, it had to be Grissel. I’m playing against Amon with 3 heavies (one of which is a shield guard), a Devout, and about 5 devishes. There’s also the Covenant, so no KD on the front jack wall of 3 heavies.

    With only Grissel being able to shoot jacks, and his force threating 11” vs 10” for my MK I quickly realise the only option I have is assassination. Also, my opponent has chosen to go second and its two flags, so he's already started scoring. Amon is hiding behind the 3 heavies, with the 2 shield guards in range. So puppet master goes on MK and Grissel, MK sprays Amon (sprays crucially ignoring shield guards) for an above average 11 damage (its dice +2, but he spends a focus to make it effectively -3). Grissel had been hoping to jump up on Janissa’s hill to gain elevation to shoot Amon with 3 boosted Pow14s, but with 2 shield guards still there, I decide that was not going to be best. So I switch to her 10” spray, and hope the extra 2 shots outweighs the -2 drop in Pow (12 vs 14). First shot misses (despite deafen), second one hits but does no damage, so I need a 13 on 3D6 from the final spray to kill him – and roll it!!!

    Grissel2 really is a good assassination caster!! I was expecting to hit 2 out of the 3 sprays (after the deafen, its 8s on 3D6) and do a bit of damage (3D6 less 7) from each hit, with a puppet master re-roll available. Probably a 30 to 40% assn run, so much depended on landing the initial MK spray and doing decent damage there. Ordinarily, I would KD with Grissel first, then use MK, but with no KD for Amon I went the other way round to give Grissel the benefit of Deafen.
    Last edited by AndyG; 09-29-2016 at 04:39 AM.

  11. #11

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    Game 6 – vs Poland Marmots, Grim2 vs Bart
    Final round, and I get paired against Mercs. My Merc playing Captain assures me my opponent will drop his other list (Ossrum, 8 gunners, 2 artillery corp), especially given the scenario for that round, Entrenched. So I’m a bit surprised when he drops Bart, with Galleon, 2 Talons, Thor with Avalancher and a few solos – crucially, quite a low model count army.

    This time, I win dice off and choose to go second, as I wanted to score first by dominating my own zone. Plan was to score before him, and kill whatever he put into my zone and score every turn until he has to commit Galleon. My objective was Stockpile, chosen because of where the objectives would be for all three of the WTC scenarios (announced in advance) where objectives were in play. This allows Grim to stand in the zone, behind the obj so safe from Galleon drags, with a light beast or the MK within 3” of the objective, so I can sacrifice any shooting at the obj onto a beast.

    Grim snipes out Lanyssa early, so now MK and Galleon have same threat range. He starts to contest my zone by running in Talons, and hoping they survive under Batten down the Hatches (effectively Arm21, 26 boxes and cant be moved). But I simply apply the same tech as from Wurmwood game – apply mortality, Grim and MK shoot, rage goes on a light beast, light beast finishes off the jack.

    Eventually he is forced to bring in the Galleon, his army is quite small and I’ve killed off as many of the solos as I can early, and then been killing his Talons. The Galleon is Arm22 under Batten, but again Mortality takes it down to Arm20, I rage and stone strength the MK for +3 damage, charge for free under blood lure and easily trash it. After Grim and some other shooting at it to soften it up a bit, I think it only cost the MK 1 fury to kill a battened Galleon……

  12. #12
    Destroyer of Worlds Trollock's Avatar
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    You have gotten me interested in Grim 2 again. I played him a few times in MK2. Loved it on paper, but hated it in reality. I played him once in MK3. Won by a landslide but didnt like it at all for some reason. I may have to revise my thinking...

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    I'm forcing myself to retire Grim2, as I've played him for almost 2 years now - but as I look at trying to come up with new pairings, its sooo hard not to go back to him!!! He has so many toolbox options, I found him so versatile! With the new heavy meta, his Pursuit spell has also come into play (didn't ever cast it during Mark2!)

    Going to build around Grissel2 now (I only just put her in as a pair for Grim2 just before WTC), so maybe thinking Doomy1 or Doomy3 to go alongside her...

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    Destroyer of Worlds UmbrellaCorp487's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    I'm forcing myself to retire Grim2, as I've played him for almost 2 years now - but as I look at trying to come up with new pairings, its sooo hard not to go back to him!!! He has so many toolbox options, I found him so versatile! With the new heavy meta, his Pursuit spell has also come into play (didn't ever cast it during Mark2!)

    Going to build around Grissel2 now (I only just put her in as a pair for Grim2 just before WTC), so maybe thinking Doomy1 or Doomy3 to go alongside her...
    Shame I sold my swamp troll and highwaymen Nice writeups.
    Stick your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan!

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    Destroyer of Worlds joedj's Avatar
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    I always thought of Cassius as a Warlock type, so no Crit Consume, but Ha! he's edible!

    My avatar is a pic of me from my USAF days. Can you guess who my favorite Troll Warlock is?

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    FYI regarding Butcher 3:

    Butcher -- and any other warcaster/warlock unit -- never stops being a unit. Regardless of whether or not the other models are killed, the warcaster/warlock remains the Officer and the unit commander.

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    The game vs butcher, doesn't impending doom pulls all the way regardless of rough terrain ? it's not a [push 5"], it's a [push things within 5" until it stops]
    Signatures take too much space.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by whats82 View Post
    The game vs butcher, doesn't impending doom pulls all the way regardless of rough terrain ? it's not a [push 5"], it's a [push things within 5" until it stops]
    "Enemy models within 5" are pushed 5" directly towards" is the wording!

  19. #19
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    My mistake then
    Signatures take too much space.

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    Annihilator Candles's Avatar
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    Andy I'm 4 games in using your Grim2 list and it's 4-0. Really fun to play, I even got to assassinate Amon Al Raza with a Swamp Troll pull.

    What do you drop into the Menoth Matchup out of interest? I worry about the lack of magical guns
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  21. #21
    Destroyer of Worlds Big Fat Troll's Avatar
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    I actually kinda hated Grim 2 in MK 2. He looked like a mess. I felt like I just couldn't get his toolkit and a whole list to work well together, even with Burrowers. Has he changed much? Or is it another case of the game changing around him?
    "It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood."
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  22. #22

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    @ Candles - grim wanted no part of menoth typically, for the reason you gave - no magical guns bar his. My Grissel2 pair was my menoth drop, her natively magical ROF3 gun helps there. However, he can threaten high reclaimer through the clouds, so if there was a jack-light HR list paired with another inf heavy list, I might consider dropping grim.

    @ Big Fat Troll - he didn't change at all in the edition switch, bar mirage getting one point less to cast. He was always very flexible, and I built his list in mark 2 and 3 to be able to shoot down either inf or heavy targets. In mark2, I mainly needed to kill inf (i.e. Highwaymen would typically take many shots). In mark3, he's able to cope with the extra jacks/beasts out there, mortality allows me to have cripple a jack from highwaymen cras and boosted shooting from lights. Then if/when they arrive at the troll lines, rage gets applied and it gets trivially finished off. This flexibility really helps in this new mark3 meta, as you just don't know what you'll be facing.
    Last edited by AndyG; 10-07-2016 at 11:16 PM.

  23. #23
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    If you think about it, Grim2 has a very large toolbox when you consider the abilities of himself, mugs, and Krump. Hunters Grim has:

    Hit buff (Mortality, Feat, KD gun, KD potential from trap)
    Damage buff (Mortality)
    Movement buff (Mirage, Pursuit, reposition)
    Fury efficiency (Blood Lure)
    Defense (Trapper, Can also benefit from Concealment given by chronicler as they are a unit)
    Offensive capabilities (Magesight lets you reach more things)

    So many great abilities. Really the only tough thing to get used to with Hunters Grim is that they are a unit so there are order of activation issues as they can do so many different things. Funny thing is you can set a trap and then "push" enemy models into it causing them to take a POW10 which isn't blast so not easily ignored. "This Is Sparta!!!"

  24. #24
    Destroyer of Worlds Menoth Kid's Avatar
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    I'm curious did you playtest Gunnbjorn? His gameplay seems similar to Grissel2, but more support for beast-line

  25. #25
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    Gunnbjorn is much more bluffing focused due to only having one fixed shot. Grissel is i imagine much more dynamic and versatile, having the KD, spray and Covering Fire three times, her Deflection is army wide +2 rather than 4" +4 Def and she buffs other areas like Spd and Arm on the Feat.

  26. #26

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    Yes, exactly that. I found Gunnbjorn was a good tempo caster - run forward, feat to deliver fennblades etc and beast gunline shooting, hoping to blitz the scenario. But if that didn't work, then I found he struggles quickly. I also found out just before list submission of a weakness of my fennblade variant into cygnar - on the gunnbjorn feat turn, one storm lance runs up and the others shoot it in the back for e-leaps into the fenns. So there was a late switch to Grissel2, as I find her game more consistent over a number of turns, like Toby mentions.

  27. #27
    Destroyer of Worlds Menoth Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    Yes, exactly that. I found Gunnbjorn was a good tempo caster - run forward, feat to deliver fennblades etc and beast gunline shooting, hoping to blitz the scenario. But if that didn't work, then I found he struggles quickly. I also found out just before list submission of a weakness of my fennblade variant into cygnar - on the gunnbjorn feat turn, one storm lance runs up and the others shoot it in the back for e-leaps into the fenns. So there was a late switch to Grissel2, as I find her game more consistent over a number of turns, like Toby mentions.
    Here is my list idea for Gunnbjorn (I want to run this soon ) The idea is to use it to hard-counter shooting heavy skews like Cygnar and Retribution. It is really just a plan to deliver the Mountain King. Probably using Rockwall to protect him after he does his dirty work.

    http://conflictchamber.com/#b71b02c60resfp0k0m6Rc8


    Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points


    (Gunnbjorn 1) Captain Gunnbjorn [+28]
    - Mountain King [36]
    - Dire Troll Bomber [19]
    - Dozer & Smigg [18]
    Dhunian Knot [6]
    Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
    - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
    Lanyssa Ryssyl [3]
    Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
    Sons of Bragg [11]

  28. #28
    Destroyer of Worlds Big Fat Troll's Avatar
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    You mean blocking charges against a lack of pathfinder? Or using the wall to just take up space so jacks can't get into melee? Stuff like that? Seems smart.
    "It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood."
    -Karl Popper



  29. #29

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    hi,
    after playing your grim2 list do you feel any reasons to change your list or would you play it the same way again?

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    Game 5 – vs Scotland Irn, Grissel2 vs Amon
    Right, after round 4’s epic write up, this will be a quicker one. With the team having beaten Scotland Bru in the previous round, we get drawn vs Scotland Irn, who are threatening vengeance for their fallen comrades!! I get drawn vs Menoth, and with Grim2 only having one magical weapon, it had to be Grissel. I’m playing against Amon with 3 heavies (one of which is a shield guard), a Devout, and about 5 devishes. There’s also the Covenant, so no KD on the front jack wall of 3 heavies.

    With only Grissel being able to shoot jacks, and his force threating 11” vs 10” for my MK I quickly realise the only option I have is assassination. Also, my opponent has chosen to go second and its two flags, so he's already started scoring. Amon is hiding behind the 3 heavies, with the 2 shield guards in range. So puppet master goes on MK and Grissel, MK sprays Amon (sprays crucially ignoring shield guards) for an above average 11 damage (its dice +2, but he spends a focus to make it effectively -3). Grissel had been hoping to jump up on Janissa’s hill to gain elevation to shoot Amon with 3 boosted Pow14s, but with 2 shield guards still there, I decide that was not going to be best. So I switch to her 10” spray, and hope the extra 2 shots outweighs the -2 drop in Pow (12 vs 14). First shot misses (despite deafen), second one hits but does no damage, so I need a 13 on 3D6 from the final spray to kill him – and roll it!!!

    Grissel2 really is a good assassination caster!! I was expecting to hit 2 out of the 3 sprays (after the deafen, its 8s on 3D6) and do a bit of damage (3D6 less 7) from each hit, with a puppet master re-roll available. Probably a 30 to 40% assn run, so much depended on landing the initial MK spray and doing decent damage there. Ordinarily, I would KD with Grissel first, then use MK, but with no KD for Amon I went the other way round to give Grissel the benefit of Deafen.
    I got wrecked. :P

    I basically forgot Grissel could spray 3 times, so did the maths and went "Eh, he has like a 10, maybe 15%er on me if he goes for it, but I have 2 shield guards, spell immunity, no KD, and 3 Focus, I'll be fine."

    Unfortunately, as you said, it was actually closer to 40%. Slightly dice spiky, but it was absolutely my mistake that I was even in a position to lose like that, considering how much the match up was in my favour. I gave you a decent shot at the win, and you took it.

    One of these days you're gonna not assassinate me.

  31. #31
    Destroyer of Worlds malfred's Avatar
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    Did you have to Mortality madrak2 with grim? You already have Takedown. Or was it to give you other options for taking down the Madrak?
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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Dog View Post
    hi,
    after playing your grim2 list do you feel any reasons to change your list or would you play it the same way again?
    Hi, I was happy with the list - it played well into the match ups I was looking for at the WTC. But I do think Grim2 is so versatile that there are many ways to build a list for him. Provided its got a decent core of shooting, I could see many options being included - Glacier King, bushwhackers, dygmies

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfred View Post
    Did you have to Mortality madrak2 with grim? You already have Takedown. Or was it to give you other options for taking down the Madrak?
    If memory serves, I had a few other charging models (the odd stone scribe etc), so thought it would be better to give up on some attacks from Grim to make Madrak def12 arm15. Madrak probably died whichever route I went, with no transfer targets.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lieutenant View Post
    One of these days you're gonna not assassinate me.
    Never!!

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