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  1. #1
    Zombie Conqueror
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    Default The wait is pretty long...

    So, I know it takes time to make the changes to Skorne and test etc, and we do have a clear timeline for when the errata will drop.

    That said: The wait is pretty long :/ I almost feel the same way as I did during the time between MK3 announcement and MK3 releasing. I'd describe it as an unexcited "why bother". I know the change won't be as big as it was with MK3, but the sense of "things are going to change in a few months so what's the point?" is the same. So my general enjoyment of the game is severely impacted to the point where it's been ~5 weeks since I played last (from at least once a week). I'm concerned that by the time the errata comes around, I'll have lost interest entirely.

    Not sure what PP can do about that, but wanted to express it, maybe they have some ideas.

  2. #2
    Destroyer of Worlds permanent's Avatar
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    This is the problem with in 6 months, the people who put the game into this state, and who have in the past released:

    -Haley2 back in her original form
    -Gaspy2 in his original form
    -Every broken theme force from MK2 such as EE, Wold War, body and soul etc
    -karchev and the mad doges

    so on so forth and believed it was balanced, will suddenly fix the game in january errata. i doubt it. i highly highly doubt it.

    i expect skorne to get an adjustment larger than that of other factions, but for overall not much to change in the balance of power.

    people have to play the game right now, not in several months. I recommend just playing a real faction and not skorne until the day PP actually takes enough action that skorne is good. Because there is no guarantee it will be in january and its overly optimistic to assume it will be. (but it'd be nice to be wrong)

    so don't wait around for PP to fix the faction they don't care about basically

  3. #3
    Destroyer of Worlds RorinTh's Avatar
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    I brought Skorne to ClogCon last weekend. I really dont think we are worse off than Cryx, Trolls and Legion when it comes to competitive lists. Our width of choice is very limited byt the ability to build a competitve list pairing is definatley there.

    Playing skorne now will have you in a much better position to do well when the changes comes. No matter what the changes are I assume the basic roles of things will remain, learn to play with them as they are now and be happy with any improvements that shows up. Trying to solve the current meta also lets you think a lot about what can be used to counter certain effects, that kind of insight will not be lost in any way even if the top is shaken up and skorne improved.

    Sitting around waiting for things to change will not let you improve in any way. Dojoing and playing now will do that. So Im in the listbuilding and playing phase at the moment and will happily take any improvements when they show up.
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  4. #4
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    Odd that I feel like the voice of optimism...

    Just play. Pick what you like and just play. I have yet to play a game where I lost and felt it was my faction's fault and not my own. I'm not waiting for an errata. I'm not waiting for someone else to find a new broken model or combination to abuse. I'm out there finding out how to use what I currently have access to, and how it breaks my opponents. We have the luxury of knowing 95% of the Skorne errata will be buffs and it can only get better! (By way of comparison, I know a Circle player who refuses to use Wurmwood or Sentry Stones now because he expects them to be nerfed and he doesn't want to crutch them).

    At some point, people went from "Skorne are relatively underpowered" to "Skorne are unplayable trash", and that's not really the case.

    Are the models going to change in 2 months? Of course! But as permanent said above - you play the game now.
    In Shanghai? Message me! Welcome the Skorne Christmas this January
    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Will View Post
    ...nothing in Skorne was broken. It all worked and didn't heavily skew the median. However, that caused it to be unbalanced because a big part of WARMACHINE and HORDES balance is about those outliers and the fun and flavor they add to the overall experience of the game.

  5. #5

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    Skorne is not garbage. Is just bland, we have no powercaster and our army stats are below par.
    It doesnt take all that much to "fix" it. Couple points of mat, a small weaponmaster option, free charges, and a couple a good caster would go a long way.

    That being said i am on the boat with the "how can the same company that made una2 and thought it was ok make all these bad changes to skorne" so we will just have to wait and see.
    Im sure you can sell your army to folks that just like the looks/fluff/underdog role if you realy want to get rid of it tho .
    Last edited by Mod_Donaldbain; 11-17-2016 at 04:57 AM.


    We are not retreating, we are just advancing in another direction.

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  6. #6
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    Yes, the wait is long and it's hard to stay positive. I' been having fun with Cygnar in the meantime. Such a nice faction with a wide veriety of options. For me personally, not thinking too hard about Skorne until January is the best solution.

  7. #7
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    What i hope most is that we doesn't have to take the same 19 Points (Gladiator and Beasthandlers) in every unit. Thats annoying and boring... Also that our lights will be worth taking them.

  8. #8
    Destroyer of Worlds ZealousJohnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regleant View Post
    At some point, people went from "Skorne are relatively underpowered" to "Skorne are unplayable trash", and that's not really the case.
    Yup

    It's hard to resist the feedback loop effect of the forums.

    Put a dozen people in a room who are all quite upset about something for six months and they will leave that room outraged.
    Interested in starting out Warmachine/Hordes but don't know where to begin? PM me and ask me about setting up a Vassal game or two where I can show you the ropes and you can try out different factions before you buy.

  9. #9
    Destroyer of Worlds Jester5613's Avatar
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    I'm just taking a break from the game until the errata. Between every game feeling like an uphill battle off the start and the loluna2wedidntplaytestthis my desire to play at all has finally died.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zargar View Post
    it's been ~5 weeks since I played last (from at least once a week).
    I am in the same boat. Jumping factions to legion didn't help me either.

    I also don't think anything can be done right now, but maybe knowing other people are feeling the same way will help you hold on for a little while longer.

    Zargar, you are not alone, there are others that understand how you feel. I hope this helps.

  11. #11
    Destroyer of Worlds Donesh's Avatar
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    A temporary patch should have been put into place. Something as stupid as a free PGBH unit would help out significantly and be a obvious temp fix. PP really needs to be more communicate on this fixing Skorne process too.

    Shame on the people saying Skorne isn't so bad. Naivitity like that resulted in Mk2 Skorne and the Mk3 transition. PP needs to hear it like it is.

  12. #12
    Destroyer of Worlds Darque's Avatar
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    I agree a temporary patch would help make things better.
    I'm at the "why bother" stage myself. I honestly am working hard to find the faith to trust that Privateer will do right and well by the only faction I actually give a damn about. This silence is really starting to erode that.
    If they ever wanted to kill off a faction, this is the manual for it right here.
    "Oh my lord here's a just reward, Bring me my devil, just behind the door"

  13. #13
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    This silence is really starting to erode that.
    I really hope the next errata insider has some info on Skorne. The last two were beyond vague.

  14. #14
    Destroyer of Worlds RorinTh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donesh View Post
    Shame on the people saying Skorne isn't so bad. Naivitity like that resulted in Mk2 Skorne and the Mk3 transition. PP needs to hear it like it is.
    Shame on people actually trying to make things work as is?

    I was in the skorne is useless camp up untill I started talking a bit more with other players going with skorne and go away from the Rashet+Agonizer "clutches". The depth is very very limited but there are some gold nuggets to be dug out if you want to give it a try. Sitting around waiting and whining doesn't sound like it will help anyone.
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  15. #15
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    Zaadesh is fun.
    A dead man's coin spends as good as any other.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donesh View Post
    Shame on the people saying Skorne isn't so bad. Naivitity like that resulted in Mk2 Skorne and the Mk3 transition. PP needs to hear it like it is.
    Shame on you, because Skorne *isn't* so bad. 90% of my defeat are clearly due to my error, not to the state of Skorne.

  17. #17
    Destroyer of Worlds Darque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RorinTh View Post
    The depth is very very limited but there are some gold nuggets to be dug out if you want to give it a try. Sitting around waiting and whining doesn't sound like it will help anyone.
    You're right. There are some. a very limited few. However if we don't want to keep building the same list over and over again this base needs to vastly widen.

    Sitting around doesn't accomplish much. And keeping the players not informed leads to people getting frustrated, cranky, and taking their money elsewhere. What would you suggest be done?
    "Oh my lord here's a just reward, Bring me my devil, just behind the door"

  18. #18
    Destroyer of Worlds Sardonic Artery's Avatar
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    PP already said they're going to overhaul Skorne come January -- what more do you expect them to say for now? How would it even help? Right now, I can take current models with current rules to events. I don't want to think about what could be yet. Getting an Insider or some juicy spoilers a couple weeks before the errata? Totally, but not yet.

    Besides, are y'all not playing Zaadesh2 right now? He's baller.
    In honor of the Skorne errata, PP should just make the forums one big salt shaker.

  19. #19
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    Uh you play the game now so that you are familiar with what your opponents armies do and what units work better on the table than online "wisdom" would indicate. If you wait until Skorne is "fixed" then you will still be pissed because you wont know enough to really know what changes worked and which ones didn't.
    Last edited by Mod_Donaldbain; 11-17-2016 at 04:59 AM.

  20. #20

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    Im still playing, not winning, but playing. Ive got a ton of practice to get in on the fundementals of model placement and remembering my own rules. In my case, its definately not all my factions fault.

    Im content with the insider acknowledgment and commiment to fix it.

  21. #21
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    PP already said they're going to overhaul Skorne come January -- what more do you expect them to say for now?
    Something a bit more concrete than "we're on it" would be nice. The next insider would be the perfect opportunity for that.

  22. #22
    Destroyer of Worlds UmbrellaCorp487's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hns View Post
    Something a bit more concrete than "we're on it" would be nice. The next insider would be the perfect opportunity for that.
    They already did this when transitioning from mk2 to mk3, 'we're on it, totally play tested for 3 years'. I normally side with the company but here my faith has diminished. You play test for 3 years only to claim you got it wrong after 6 months was already in bad faith. I am not going to get my hopes up this faction will be fixed, I can only hope they generate enough hype so I can off load them for more than 30% retail
    Stick your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan!

  23. #23
    Destroyer of Worlds Jester5613's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RorinTh View Post
    Shame on people actually trying to make things work as is?

    I was in the skorne is useless camp up untill I started talking a bit more with other players going with skorne and go away from the Rashet+Agonizer "clutches". The depth is very very limited but there are some gold nuggets to be dug out if you want to give it a try. Sitting around waiting and whining doesn't sound like it will help anyone.
    I'll bite. I've been reading your blog when you update it and a lot of the games seem to have been losses. I know you've been trying to get hexy2 to sing. He's my favorite caster in Skorne (maybe Zaadesh2), any news on getting him to work best? Every time I play him I feel like I'm missing something.

  24. #24
    Destroyer of Worlds RorinTh's Avatar
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    I found overall that Hexy has very few really bad matchups (not even sure what they are yet) but he barely has any easy matchups either. That is something I like a lot about a list. I would say it is a little on the weeak side (say 45% average in tournament matchups?) but not very far from being up there. The only time I felt like I did not have good options or could have played better (or of course I could have played better but I dont think I had any plays that would lead me to a win) when I played him at clogcon was on incursion. Having to split 3 ways made my overall gameplan and model placement very hard to achieve.

    Otherwise I had a fairly close game with him vs Fyanna. I was not prapared at all for my opponent running an admoed Raek under feat to block my lanes (kind of blanked on long leash mainly) so that put me behind. I won against Madrak2 in another very close game where I managed to take out roughly 18 fennblades in a turn (upkeeping blackspot and throwin 4 ashes made for a big carnage). I managed to scrape out a win vs Una2, altough that was more luck than anything else. Una is actually something I dont know how to solve but that is not a skorne specific problem atm. I got a draw vs Denny after a really hard fought game, I think I had a slight advantage due to going first but had some really crap dice for a few key things which let him go for a scenario play. Altough due to him slamming with Bathroom who had lost movement to clear the zone while very low on clock we had a slight reset and he had a second go at actually killing the contesting titan but time ran out. It was a very low pressure setting in a team tournament and we decided that for our personal recordsit was a draw but we rolled a 4+ to decide the situation. I lost to coven mainly due to going for an assassination that was not as good as I thought (turns out being able to fully unload the mammoth into the ball is not that big a deal, even if hexy can feat to bolt a witch first). Hard to tell how the game would have worked out otherwise.

    My main list though was the Makeda2 with Ferox that only lost to stryker 2 and took wins vs Tanith, Bart, Sloan, Coven, Issyria, Ossyan, and Vyros 2.
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  25. #25
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    I have the same trust issue, but i will wait and play until the Errata hits. This game is still interesting and fun. Atleast in local games i can often compensate the issues with gameknowledge and have some fun, e.g. with Mordikaar.

  26. #26
    Destroyer of Worlds RorinTh's Avatar
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    So wait... It is a bad thing that they admit to getting it wrong? You would rather have seen them say everything is fine and at that point skorne would have worked better?

    We are not working with computer games here. They can not throw out "patches" and than redo them the next day or week. Changes need to be thought out well. Some info on what is going on would sure be nice but I dont think any "quick fix" would make things better in the long run.
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  27. #27
    Destroyer of Worlds Bartacus's Avatar
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    I would rather PP use every day until the errata and get it right rather than give details of their plans early and then change these or they aren't the right changes.

    Not that PP will necessarily get it right even so but they should give themselves the best window of opportunity possible.
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by RorinTh View Post
    So wait... It is a bad thing that they admit to getting it wrong? You would rather have seen them say everything is fine and at that point skorne would have worked better?

    We are not working with computer games here. They can not throw out "patches" and than redo them the next day or week. Changes need to be thought out well. Some info on what is going on would sure be nice but I dont think any "quick fix" would make things better in the long run.
    No it's a bad thing they got it wrong in the first place and a bad thing that they got it wrong so bad twice. So no one trusts them. No one wants to wait. We would like to see how badly they do this time so we can know for sure to quit now rather than wait several months to do so.

  29. #29
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    It is a bad thing that they admit to getting it wrong? You would rather have seen them say everything is fine and at that point skorne would have worked better?
    I don't think anyone in this thread has uttered anything of that sort.

  30. #30

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    I'm firmly in the boat of trusting PP to make good updates to Skorne and other factions through the normal change process they've outlined for mk3. As a 'living' game (for lack of a better buzz word) things will change a lot over time and the changes in January are hardly going to be immutable from then on anyway.

    I see many people on the forum, on facebook, and in spoken conversation express an opinion that PP can't be trusted to fix Skorne balance for several reasons, the most common being "they got it wrong on release" or "other factions are stronger, what the hell?" Personally, I look at the product as a whole and see that they got it right one hell of a lot more than they got it wrong.

    There was always an expected chance that they'd get several things wrong. They recognised this and came up with the update schedule to make a healthier long-term game that wouldn't be crippled by their early mistakes. Given how many other things they did well, in the core rules and other factions, I feel they've already proved they can do a good job with the game, and I look forward to what the future brings to both Warmachine/Hordes and Skorne in particular.

    While I also find playing Skorne makes me an underdog when I'm up against power lists, I don't feel I'm falling all that short in any one, single area. It's the combination of falling short across so many parts of my army at the same time that means I have to shore up those issues through superior play and positioning. And as a newer player, I just don't have the skills for that yet, and it can be frustrating when a tactical mistake unravels an entire strategy because of it, or you can't capitalise on an enemy's mistake easily because their entire force is that next level up.

    I feel that what is wrong with Skorne is the built-in support bloat. Few support pieces give the level of support I feel my list needs by themselves, and once I start stacking support options to overcome this, I'm losing points for work-horse models. If I forego the support pieces, the work-horses can't quite match the stamina or strength of many enemy options and combos I've faced.

    Lastly, I think it's worth considering that they never intended to put Skorne into its current state. They didn't think "Let's make a bad faction and hurt our reputation at the same time!" They got it wrong, and they actively want to fix the imbalance.


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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OranjeJus View Post
    I'm firmly in the boat of trusting PP to make good updates to Skorne and other factions through the normal change process they've outlined for mk3. As a 'living' game (for lack of a better buzz word) things will change a lot over time and the changes in January are hardly going to be immutable from then on anyway.

    I see many people on the forum, on facebook, and in spoken conversation express an opinion that PP can't be trusted to fix Skorne balance for several reasons, the most common being "they got it wrong on release" or "other factions are stronger, what the hell?" Personally, I look at the product as a whole and see that they got it right one hell of a lot more than they got it wrong.

    There was always an expected chance that they'd get several things wrong. They recognised this and came up with the update schedule to make a healthier long-term game that wouldn't be crippled by their early mistakes. Given how many other things they did well, in the core rules and other factions, I feel they've already proved they can do a good job with the game, and I look forward to what the future brings to both Warmachine/Hordes and Skorne in particular.

    While I also find playing Skorne makes me an underdog when I'm up against power lists, I don't feel I'm falling all that short in any one, single area. It's the combination of falling short across so many parts of my army at the same time that means I have to shore up those issues through superior play and positioning. And as a newer player, I just don't have the skills for that yet, and it can be frustrating when a tactical mistake unravels an entire strategy because of it, or you can't capitalise on an enemy's mistake easily because their entire force is that next level up.

    I feel that what is wrong with Skorne is the built-in support bloat. Few support pieces give the level of support I feel my list needs by themselves, and once I start stacking support options to overcome this, I'm losing points for work-horse models. If I forego the support pieces, the work-horses can't quite match the stamina or strength of many enemy options and combos I've faced.

    Lastly, I think it's worth considering that they never intended to put Skorne into its current state. They didn't think "Let's make a bad faction and hurt our reputation at the same time!" They got it wrong, and they actively want to fix the imbalance.


    - OJ
    I think the main problem isn't that they get it wrong in MK3 but also that Skorne even in MK2 felt a bit like a stepchild to PP.

  32. #32
    Destroyer of Worlds Ereshkigal's Avatar
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    i love the smell of optimism in the evening.
    I'm a skorne player, as such i'm unwilling to try different models within my faction and i'm stuck at mk2 list building by definition.

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  33. #33

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    Honestly,this is pointless. Play the game or don't. You aren't accomplishing anything by complaininf at this point. The Skorne forum needs one stickied post for all the constructive criticism/ suggestions and all other complaint threads to be banned until the Skorne fix is revealed.

    Talk about how to play with the army we currently have, talk about skorne fluff, play 100 games with a Morghoul1 Cyclops horde and post the results. Do anything but complain.

  34. #34
    Destroyer of Worlds permanent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OranjeJus View Post
    I'm firmly in the boat of trusting PP to make good updates to Skorne and other factions through the normal change process they've outlined for mk3. As a 'living' game (for lack of a better buzz word) things will change a lot over time and the changes in January are hardly going to be immutable from then on anyway.

    I see many people on the forum, on facebook, and in spoken conversation express an opinion that PP can't be trusted to fix Skorne balance for several reasons, the most common being "they got it wrong on release" or "other factions are stronger, what the hell?" Personally, I look at the product as a whole and see that they got it right one hell of a lot more than they got it wrong.

    I feel that what is wrong with Skorne is the built-in support bloat. Few support pieces give the level of support I feel my list needs by themselves, and once I start stacking support options to overcome this, I'm losing points for work-horse models. If I forego the support pieces, the work-horses can't quite match the stamina or strength of many enemy options and combos I've faced.

    Lastly, I think it's worth considering that they never intended to put Skorne into its current state. They didn't think "Let's make a bad faction and hurt our reputation at the same time!" They got it wrong, and they actively want to fix the imbalance.
    on your first point, on trusting PP - As other users noted. this is not a problem that only just occured. PP hasn't known what to do with skorne for a while now. i think its also indicative in our erratas, where Zaal2 originally got a buff and then one of the biggest infernal nerfs i've seen (in restricting him to require to only direct spirits when it meets all criterea of the soul collection, ie - advocates can only get souls from their immortal unit and not other immortal units).

    This stretches back into mk2 also. but in mk2 the problem wasn't as pronounced. i played skorne vs cryx quite a few times as a new player and that was without a doubt one of our worst match ups and i usually lost because i was still learning what everything did. But as i kept playing, skorne mk2 had a lot of things feel manageable, and felt like it had options. it was never top tier, like skorne christmas at the end of mk1 was. but PP legitimately decided the archidon and rhinodon were too good and nerfed them in the transition to mk3. Not to mention knee capping morghoul2 with every edition change (mk1 --> mk2, justified nerf, but they went massively overboard and killed him) (Mk2 --> mk3, not justified, but they still decided to beat him with the nerf bat).

    One of the only reasons our Arcuarii were even played in mk2 was they were cheap in fist of halaak. They were never particularily hard to kill. you sometimes saw them with other legit lists like with mordikaar because mordikaar could bring them back for round 2 in good angles. If anyone would disagree the main things that made arcuarii played was recursion and the unique discount on masse that FoH gave, please voice it. But in the transition recursion mechanics were nerfed massively, and on top of this FoH is gone. Arcuarii as they existed, with 8 boxes and their pretty meh defensive stats probably wouldn't be played that often, they'd have come up as corner case, maybe you'd take them with Zaadesh2.

    but how did PP treat them? the unit that lost everything that made them playable took a MASSIVE statline nerf. 11/15 and 5 boxes. this is an unplayable statline, there is no redeeming it.

    the point is, both in mk1 --> mk2 transition, and mk2 --> mk3 transition theres a lot of astronomically bad things you can point at. PP claims they had 3 years of testing, but now they'll magically fix it in 6 months? that i do not believe, it is too optimistic for me to swallow. It's not even a whole game issue, its a skorne issue. other factions can be very happy about the state of things.

    your second point - on support bloat. i agree that skorne support just that don't do work in mk3 (although the forced 19 points of glad + handlers is a separate story), because skorne support sucks for the most part. our support is generally much more inefficient and limited than warmachine support. Allow me to draw several comparisons.

    In faction we have only 3 non mandatory support pieces that aren't warbeasts. Which is the willbreaker, Extoller and Tyrant Commander. we have one warlock attachment who is more expensive than every single warmachine attachment, but usually doesn't earn that point value at all. Warmachine gets between 2 and 3 attachments, like Sylys, Reinholdt, and sometimes an in faction one like Squire or the war dog. the result is the caster picks one that helps them the most and they benefit a lot from it. we just have marketh who rarely benefits anyone for 6pts.

    Imagine sylys in skorne, take him with hexy2. upkeep something for free, give hexy arcane secrets and hexy A2As something. that would feel great! Instead we have marketh who can't upkeep for free until friendlies are dying (by your hand or enemy hand) and whos spell slave is useable, but is usually suicide.

    Other casters like Zaadesh2 benefit zero from his spell slave side, but want free upkeeps. that's why despoiler is far more popular with him than marketh...

    our merc/min options have a really good one (orin), but otherwise come up pretty dry, as saxon is basically a cheaper tycom who only pathfinders and a lot of the others are now FF only such as witch doctor.

    as for our beast support, its never that great. Bringing a krea just for the +2 def is rarely worth it, and the enemy might not even have blasts to worry about. This is where Cygnar for example brings its trenchers/lancers a lot. the lances are arm high enough to ignore blasts and trenchers can dig in.

    Another example is Ret, who can provide blast immunity in a large variety of ways. Most notable the incredible discordia who blows the krea out of the water. What would you rather, an archidon (near enough to 11 points) and a krea, or discordia?

    Then you have to assess how deep the support pool is for say, cygnar/khador/PoM/etc and is deeper and much more flexible than skorne's pool. they get pieces like ragman, also get orin, rhupert carvolo whos like a tycom mixed with a willbreaker. in faction pieces they get things like strangewayes, gun mage captains, Joe, the book. Skorne can't hold a candle to the overall utility, depth and flexibility of other factions support networks.

    Even retribution of scyrah, who is notable for the fact that they 'stand alone' and don't have a deep merc/min option (they just have their partisans essentially which is all of 3 things, lanny, dahlia and aiyanna and holt). They still have a better overall support network than skorne does. i already mentioned disco who is like a krea, but giving superior + arm (from a skorne perspective) while also being an incredible workhorse piece. But lets not forget artificers, magisters, soulless escorts, lys healer, and arcanists blow for blow are higher quality than paingivers. which isn't so much a bad thing by itself. mostly a context thing

    TLR

    1 - i don't think PP is capable of fixing this in one errata, if ever, they just don't seem to understand skorne
    2 - Skorne's support network is very poor compared to most, if not all other factions in terms of flexibility, utility and overall power of each support piece which creates the inefficiency and bloat. Usually support for lists comes down to a few key pieces that matter a lot. Ragman is a great example in my cygnar lists. He really helps both haley2 and haley3 out when it counts.
    Last edited by permanent; 11-15-2016 at 04:59 PM.

  35. #35
    Conqueror
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    I've bought into skorne in its current state and I'm having fun playing it too I've even won some games with my terribly useless models. I do see the problems and clearly PP are listening hence the acknowledgment as for them messing it up again haven't you heard the phrase 3rd time lucky?

    I do get the feeling some players simply won't be happy unless skorne becomes the equivalent of mk2 cryx, that to me is a shame because the game doesn't need an(other) op faction everyone builds for and I don't want to play that faction
    Last edited by Mod_Donaldbain; 11-17-2016 at 05:01 AM.

  36. #36
    Combatant
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    I have been playing Cygnar for most of MKIII now. It's nice to have balance, synergies and to have lot's spells choices, I don't even use any of the Haley's.

    I note sure how big the errata is going to be for Skorne, I hope they give the Hydra a decent Animus, and maybe our free charges back. More than anything i want my Skorne to be "fun" to play again.

    I happy to wait, because unless the redo is amazing, I more than happy to keep playing my Cygnar.

  37. #37
    Destroyer of Worlds Postin Dirty's Avatar
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    one projected problem with errata; people will be disappointed no matter what anyway, and in fact entitled behaviour escalates because so long as someone moans, there may be the chance PP will 'fix' it
    Befuddled: ramblings and ravings playing WM/H down under

  38. #38

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    Appreciate the discourse permanent.

    I'm totally in agreement with things like the Arcuarii stat line pushing them into the "why would I?" category, and I can't help but think the intention came from there being 1 more model in the unit when I keep glancing at things like Skinwalkers or Ogruns. I think your points about the support bloat issues also being tied to depth, effectiveness and the disparity between factions is on-point. I'm "ok" with the Gladiator as a support piece, because it also does work, but I would much rather be taking him "because grand-slam" than "because Rush" - it's the difference between taking him for a specific plan, and spending 14 points every match because other beasts in your list feel lacking with only PGBH support.



    I was always told that Mk2 was born of a massive community play test, so responsibility of decisions made by PP for any changes there can be at least partially shared with the playtesting community. To me, it sounds disingenuous to lay the entire thing at their feet. Even tho the decisions lay with them, bad data in = bad data out.

    Which brings me to the '3 years.' I don't think it was 3 years testing Skorne, as it currently is, against everything else as they currently are. It was 3 years of play tested development for every faction, and the underlying ruleset. Every change permutation couldn't possibly have been tested against every possible opponent. The volume of data, the number of iterations, and the limited pool of people to do the testing surely contributed to a less sturdy starting point. With 6 months of attention on "gotta fix Skorne" I expect it means every piece within the faction will get a lot more attention than in those 3 years.

    To me, what matters less is how the mistake was made, and what matters more is how they react to it. Mk3 was never about fixing Skorne (so far as I heard. Well... other than "fix Skornergy") so I found it easy to understand (even tho it was a bitter pill to swallow) how a systematic oversight caused us to lose out across most of the faction choices (but thankfully not absolutely every option.) Considering that they have publicly announced to everyone, especially to us, that they messed up and will look specifically at Skorne with a view to rebalance it into the meta and up to a competitive level, then we are literally getting what we asked for. Instead of being really pleased with this, and concentrating on further useful discussion, this very responsible and responsive admission of theirs is met with even louder cries to abandon ship. Some people are more emotive than others, and we can all understand hyperbole when it's offered, but it's a very perplexing way to respond to this exchange where we actually get a promise to address the problem.

    I'll grant you that we'll not be seeing the golden goose laying the Skorne egg in January and undergo a meteoric rise to meta-bending power levels, but I personally believe we'll be pleased with the changes.


    - OJ

  39. #39
    Destroyer of Worlds Deathraven's Avatar
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    As long as we get a few point cost breaks, my existing lists are not made worse somehow and we get a bit of fresh tech to experiment with I'll be happy.


  40. #40
    Annihilator Stuh42l's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanent View Post
    This is the problem with in 6 months, the people who put the game into this state, and who have in the past released:

    -Haley2 back in her original form
    -Gaspy2 in his original form
    -Every broken theme force from MK2 such as EE, Wold War, body and soul etc
    -karchev and the mad doges

    so on so forth and believed it was balanced, will suddenly fix the game in january errata. i doubt it. i highly highly doubt it.

    i expect skorne to get an adjustment larger than that of other factions, but for overall not much to change in the balance of power.

    people have to play the game right now, not in several months. I recommend just playing a real faction and not skorne until the day PP actually takes enough action that skorne is good. Because there is no guarantee it will be in january and its overly optimistic to assume it will be. (but it'd be nice to be wrong)

    so don't wait around for PP to fix the faction they don't care about basically
    Thinking Skorne is not a real faction is laughable.
    "The forumsů You fear to go into those mines. The players delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of Mk3"

    Salt and Flame!"



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