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  1. #961
    Conqueror Y2K_MASTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheer_Falacy View Post
    It's also possible that the venators are going to get buffed by the errata. This would mean we will get a theme force that seems really bad for a week or two until the errata comes out. Which doesn't seem like an ideal way to release a theme force, frankly.
    Or maybe it'll make them really good before the errata, and then a little bit better after the errata :P

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheer_Falacy View Post
    It's also possible that the venators are going to get buffed by the errata. This would mean we will get a theme force that seems really bad for a week or two until the errata comes out. Which doesn't seem like an ideal way to release a theme force, frankly.
    +1 RAT would be nice.

  3. #963
    Destroyer of Worlds Terraneaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Blood View Post
    I was unexcited to hear our theme force is Venators. Hardly anyone has these models.
    DINGDINGDING

    Now you can see why PP would make them the subject of the first Skorne theme.
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  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kræhe View Post
    +1 RAT would be nice.
    Dakar is on that, along with the "four points contribution otherwise" thing.

    ...And no matter how much I put into converting a Reiver Officer (I actually have a spare one of those!), it just runs into that "unreleased model" wall.
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  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by illrede View Post
    Dakar is on that, along with the "four points contribution otherwise" thing.

    ...And no matter how much I put into converting a Reiver Officer (I actually have a spare one of those!), it just runs into that "unreleased model" wall.
    Yup. Releasing rules for a model months/years before release is *ridiculous* when combined with the official stance where "converted models are fine as long as the model has been released". Why would a player (not a hobbyist) put the effort into converting a model when they could just buy the damned thing?

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk1983 View Post
    Yup. Releasing rules for a model months/years before release is *ridiculous* when combined with the official stance where "converted models are fine as long as the model has been released". Why would a player (not a hobbyist) put the effort into converting a model when they could just buy the damned thing?
    They don't want being good at conversion to be a required skill to play the game at the high end. Makes sense to me. And they're trying to change things so releases come out closer to when their rules do.

  7. #967

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    I can wait however long until the dakaar comes out, even if its going to mean a year before this theme becomes useful. Of much greater concern is the allmighty erreta. Themes can rot, i just want a solid base for this faction of ours

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheer_Falacy View Post
    They don't want being good at conversion to be a required skill to play the game at the high end. Makes sense to me.
    It would never be a required skill. Only if someone wanted to play with that model. And theres no "standard" to which a conversion has to be in order to be used, so all a player would need to do would be buy something similar and give it a unique paint job/add some shoulder pads to classify. Essentially "this model on the table is = to this model in the rules". Even without that simplification though the game is varied and (mostly) balanced enough that no single unreleased model is going to be required to win at "the high end" in my opinion anyway. I guess I'll know for sure if i ever get to the high end. :-p

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheer_Falacy View Post
    And they're trying to change things so releases come out closer to when their rules do.
    Speaking of things that make sense, this shouldn't be something that needs to be "tried to change". It's pretty simple stuff. release a model, release the rules. OR allow conversions from the moment the rules drop.

    I guess its just a difference of opinion here, though. It frustrating seeing as I started Skorne in Mk3 and the dakar immediately caught my eye as one of the few solos available to us that I could have found an easily applied use for as well as getting work done by himself. As I first thought when I found out there was no release date for him yet, the rules and the meta are going to have changed so completely by the time he's available that the reasons I was excited for him 1 year ago, may very well no longer be applicable.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Blood View Post
    I can wait however long until the dakaar comes out, even if its going to mean a year before this theme becomes useful. Of much greater concern is the allmighty erreta. Themes can rot, i just want a solid base for this faction of ours
    I think that's the core of it too. I feel a lot of players (including myself) were hoping for the theme given us before the errata to be a "quickfix" to tide us all over an extra couple of weeks at least so we had *something* to feel competitive before we receive a more solid faction foundation upon which to build our all comers armies. However I can't imagine the venator theme being that. I fear it will rely on the upcoming errata to be efficient ,worse again if we have to wait for the dakaar (the last thing any of us want right now is to be given a longer wait, hence the reason this thread even exists) and thats why theres been such a negative backlash. We're all waiting breathlessly.
    Last edited by Dusk1983; 01-11-2017 at 09:35 PM.

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk1983 View Post
    It would never be a required skill. Only if someone wanted to play with that model. And theres no "standard" to which a conversion has to be in order to be used, so all a player would need to do would be buy something similar and give it a unique paint job/add some shoulder pads to classify. Essentially "this model on the table is = to this model in the rules". Even without that simplification though the game is varied and (mostly) balanced enough that no single unreleased model is going to be required to win at "the high end" in my opinion anyway. I guess I'll know for sure if i ever get to the high end. :-p
    There have absolutely been models that are big enough game changers that being able to use them or not would be important.


    Speaking of things that make sense, this shouldn't be something that needs to be "tried to change". It's pretty simple stuff. release a model, release the rules. OR allow conversions from the moment the rules drop.

    I guess its just a difference of opinion here, though. It frustrating seeing as I started Skorne in Mk3 and the dakar immediately caught my eye as one of the few solos available to us that I could have found an easily applied use for as well as getting work done by himself. As I first thought when I found out there was no release date for him yet, the rules and the meta are going to have changed so completely by the time he's available that the reasons I was excited for him 1 year ago, may very well no longer be applicable.
    If you see the dakar and are excited by him, you can proxy him in non-tournament games. All you need is for your opponent to agree, and most will. It would be nice if he were out, but you can try him either way.

  11. #971
    Destroyer of Worlds BarskeMannen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheer_Falacy View Post
    It's also possible that the venators are going to get buffed by the errata. This would mean we will get a theme force that seems really bad for a week or two until the errata comes out. Which doesn't seem like an ideal way to release a theme force, frankly.
    My expectation is that Winds of Death is being released specifically because they're not being buffed in any major way and are therefore a safer bet from a customer satisfaction standpoint. Venator Reivers are pretty powerful as is - the full boat is 23 points which is a lot, but what you're getting is 11 RAT6 hand cannons against large-based models, with reposition 3 and mini-feat for a really impressive RNG16 on the approach. The Dakar also randomly has a weapon master gun, which is sweet. Flayer Cannons have impressed me every time I've seen them on the table.

    Releasing a Cataphract theme at this point in time might be tricky if they're going to see any substantial changes - if it comes out and looks garbage because it doesn't 'fix' pre-errata cataphract it'd get a chilly initial reception, I'm sure.
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  12. #972

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Blood View Post
    I can wait however long until the dakaar comes out, even if its going to mean a year before this theme becomes useful. Of much greater concern is the allmighty erreta. Themes can rot, i just want a solid base for this faction of ours
    And then we come back to what Mahu stated before. I don't want "waiting for stuff" to be the theme of Skorne.

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Jackson View Post
    It is its own nightmare. It was settled into after terrible bouts of insomnia for early and teenage years.

    As to the serious note: We will be putting them up today. I often coordinate these endeavors, but as I regularly have said, I am in early. JR and I tend to see who gets in the earliest. So, yeah. I'm in. No one else required to do this is yet because we have different hours. We're shooting for earlier rather than later.
    We will get a better idea on the Venator theme today it looks like.

  14. #974
    Destroyer of Worlds Junn Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraneaux View Post
    DINGDINGDING

    Now you can see why PP would make them the subject of the first Skorne theme.
    Skorne players, "Please give us a ranged game."

    PP, "Here, buffs to Venators!"

    Skorne players, "I don't own those models, what a trap to get me to buy stuff."

    I will also note that most of us old timers have Venators because they were amazing back in MK1. If they are roughly the same, you too will be jumping at the chance to play with the them.

    Now I'm going to yell at clouds and talk about playing Skorne in the snow, uphill, both ways.
    Last edited by Junn Khan; 01-12-2017 at 09:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GaspysInhaler View Post
    Thanks for the response. Sarcasm is my common response to incredulity on this board.

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  15. #975
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    I never understand that attitude. Something that no one used got buffed, because it apparently sucked so no one used them, and they get called greedy. Isn't that what balance is? Unused models with bad rules get buffed, overused models that are "OP" get toned down?

    I for one look forward to our new Venator overlords.

  16. #976

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    When I said I was unexcited for the theme because few people have the venator models, I didn't intend any implication that it was a cash grab. It's just that half of the venators are, you know, artillery models. Artillery models, guys.

    Come on, PP.

  17. #977
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    For me it was simply because even if the theme is fantastic (which I hope it is for my Skorne brethren), I wont be using it simply because I would have to buy a lot of models to do so. I prefer to play the melee or beast heavy game so its simply just a rule set I will have at my disposal but will opt out of. Maybe down the line I will accumulate enough to run it but I think we will have other themes out before that will even happen. I am not upset that it is a Venator theme so much as look at it as something that does not effect me outside of knowing I don't have to keep a close eye on things in anticipation for the Skorne errata for at least the rest of this week. I truly hope it does help our ranged game as that is a nice curveball to throw at someone who is expecting a melee army out of Skorne.

  18. #978
    Destroyer of Worlds tensteam's Avatar
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    I don't mind the venator theme, but it will be just hilarious if the theme benefit is a couple of free Dakaars.

  19. #979
    Destroyer of Worlds wolf9416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Blood View Post
    When I said I was unexcited for the theme because few people have the venator models, I didn't intend any implication that it was a cash grab.
    To be fair that comment may not have been directed at you. There were a few implications (and straight out statements) throughout the thread that PP only made it a venator force to sell more models.
    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Hungerford View Post
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  20. #980
    Destroyer of Worlds Sardonic Artery's Avatar
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    I don't care if it's an odd theme force for Skorne to get first; I just want it to be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by tensteam View Post
    I don't mind the venator theme, but it will be just hilarious if the theme benefit is a couple of free Dakaars.
    Almost a lock, but if you can also get free artillery, I'll be happy.
    The nicest signature I'm ever gonna have: Excellent work on Skorne, PP.

  21. #981

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf9416 View Post
    There were a few implications (and straight out statements) throughout the thread that PP only made it a venator force to sell more models.
    Again one more aspect that makes little sense to me. Everything PP does is to sell models, that's kinda the point. Why do they make the game? To sell us the models to play it. Why are they releasing the Skorne errata? Because if they don't we wont buy their models. They make the game as good and as balanced as they can because they feel its the best way to keep people invested so that they buy more models. Why is this a villainous thing?

    PS: Not directed at you wolf, just piggybacking off of your statement.

  22. #982
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    They dropped:

    • Skorne warlocks
    • Non-character warbeasts
    • Venator models/units
    • Paingiver Beast Handler units
    • Extoller solos
    • Mortitheurge Willbreaker solos
    • Skorne battle engines
    SPECIAL RULES
    • For every full 20 points of Venator models/units in this army, you can add one Venator weapon crew unit or solo to the army free of cost. Free models/units do not count toward the total point value of Venator models/units in the army when calculating this bonus.
    • Warbeasts in this army gain Swift Hunter. (When a model with Swift Hunter destroys one or more enemy models with a basic ranged attack, immediately after the attack is resolved it can advance up to 2˝.)
    • Before models are deployed at the start of the game, you can place one wall template anywhere completely within 20˝ of the rear table edge of your deployment zone. The template cannot be placed within 3˝ of a hill, obstacle, or obstruction. The template is an obstacle that grants cover.

  23. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversmite View Post
    They dropped:

    • Skorne warlocks
    • Non-character warbeasts
    • Venator models/units
    • Paingiver Beast Handler units
    • Extoller solos
    • Mortitheurge Willbreaker solos
    • Skorne battle engines
    SPECIAL RULES
    • For every full 20 points of Venator models/units in this army, you can add one Venator weapon crew unit or solo to the army free of cost. Free models/units do not count toward the total point value of Venator models/units in the army when calculating this bonus.
    • Warbeasts in this army gain Swift Hunter. (When a model with Swift Hunter destroys one or more enemy models with a basic ranged attack, immediately after the attack is resolved it can advance up to 2˝.)
    • Before models are deployed at the start of the game, you can place one wall template anywhere completely within 20˝ of the rear table edge of your deployment zone. The template cannot be placed within 3˝ of a hill, obstacle, or obstruction. The template is an obstacle that grants cover.
    And that should be our

    It brings a ranged list to Skorne like you have never played before!
    Theme force? Wow...

  24. #984
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    On the bright side you should be getting ~10 free points? Unfortunately the Warroom doesnt seem to default to the highest point option so it looks like list building by hand until that is fixed.

  25. #985
    Conqueror elladan52's Avatar
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    Do we have any warbeasts that can take good advantage of swift hunter? I don't think we have any non-gargantuan beasts that have multiple ranged attacks.
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  26. #986

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    and the wait continues...

  27. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tyrant Ermogh View Post
    and the wait continues...
    Dont worry, in 2 or 3 months we will get our errata (maybe). :P

  28. #988

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    its a one dimensional list design so many venators for very little gain. its hard not to compare to other factions when looking at this recent theme force reveal. I guess I will keep waiting cause I am not buying more venators to make this list when all I get is a wall template. Maybe it will be better after the errata yay. What is insulting is they revealed these theme forces for players to help with the wait for there faction theme books. Its funny because the dakaar doesn't even have a release date yet!!!! come on guys were already the laughing stock of the game why add insult to injury.
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  29. #989
    Destroyer of Worlds gaminguy's Avatar
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    PP has been releasing stuff for Skorne in ways that don't make sense since the very beginning. Remember the hate-storm when Rasheth got released and how quickly it died down once we finally saw Marketh a month or two later? The general reaction was "why in the Sam-h-e-double-hockey-stick didn't you release Marketh first when Rasheth (and most of the field test warlock stable) is so blatently designed around him?"
    I'll stop bagging on the Siege Animantarax when ... what? Friendly attacks generate Cantankerous tokens and they can be used to boost gun shots? [looks thoughtful] That will do PP, that will do.

  30. #990

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    Quote Originally Posted by gaminguy View Post
    PP has been releasing stuff for Skorne in ways that don't make sense since the very beginning. Remember the hate-storm when Rasheth got released and how quickly it died down once we finally saw Marketh a month or two later? The general reaction was "why in the Sam-h-e-double-hockey-stick didn't you release Marketh first when Rasheth (and most of the field test warlock stable) is so blatently designed around him?"
    I feel this way about our current theme. Unless our ranged game see's a decent buff we still have to rely on the Dakaar for the theme. A model that is not yet available.

  31. #991

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    I will say, The Devourer's Host gives me hope for our eventual Exalted theme. That right there would be a great example of how to make it shine. Free souls to start the pot, free Ancestral Guardians for spice, warbeasts gain Steady or Sturdy to taste.... Mmmm mmmm Skorne style cooking.

  32. #992

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    I like the theme force that give us a lot of options.
    We have Hexi2 for using swift hunt and ther is no need to take Venatores so we also can play beast heavy to get the boni.

  33. #993
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    The theme force is the cheapest way to include Marketh in a list though, people where asking to make him cheaper and he is definitely worth his points if he is free

    I do think its best played at 50points though where you are only really looking for 1 free Unit/Model going all in with 40 points of venators seems like a trap. What we really need though is that Dakaar, while I think I could make a nice looking proxy out of J'deth (or whichever is the LOH unit leader) and a Venator UA it still wouldn't be tournament legal which is sad.

  34. #994
    Destroyer of Worlds Deathraven's Avatar
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    Hungerford just dropped by the FB group and said he'd be very surprised if we didn't get the errata released in the next 10 days.


  35. #995
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    10 days gives them all the way until Tuesday after next. Not exactly "early January".

  36. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdOrbital View Post
    10 days gives them all the way until Tuesday after next. Not exactly "early January".
    He said "SOON" and somebody wanted to know if it will drop in the next days and he said yes.

    That was his initial post:

    /pokes head in
    It's coming ...
    /runs away giggling
    So if we have luck we get it on monday.

  37. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kræhe View Post
    So if we have luck we get it on monday.
    Luck? In Skorne there is only pain.

  38. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester5613 View Post
    Luck? In Skorne there is only pain.
    The pain could also be that we are even worse after the errata.

    In that case it would be bad luck.

  39. #999
    Destroyer of Worlds Jester5613's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kræhe View Post
    The pain could also be that we are even worse after the errata.

    In that case it would be bad luck.
    That'd be quite difficult to achieve.

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    I am cautiously optimist for the 17, but it may be the 24.

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