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  1. #1

    Default pDenny - Build vs Cygnar

    Up next on my rotation through the Cryxian Casters is Deneghra1. For some reason I haven't played her yet since the Mk3 changes, so it's about time I do so. I'm going to be facing off against Cygnar on this one. More specifically, Lieutenant Allister Caine. So while I would prefer NOT to tech completely against him for the sake of fairness of testing, it would be nice to know I'm not going to outright die on turn 2 for it. If that makes sense, moving on.

    Warwitch Deneghra
    The Withershadow Combine
    Nightwretch x2
    Nightmare
    Aiakos, Scourge of the Meredius
    Stalker x2
    Wrong-Eye
    Snapjaw
    Warwitch Siren
    Machine Wraith x2
    Bile Thralls
    Skarlock Commander

    Deneghra - My primary thought here is that, since she's entirely focused on debuffs, I need self-sufficient models that don't rely on Warcaster buffs or protection. And because she's going to be strained for focus even before focus allocation, I don't want to put any non-arc node jacks under her except for Nightmare (even that is iffy). I also need to keep her out of the way even when going in for the kill. I do have a few concerns though. Not having any soul trappers to help with the focus load. No jamming units or even a wall of Bane Knights to protect her.
    Withershadow Combine - While I may not be particularly good at my placement of these three, I find myself taking them in almost every game. In this case, it's for the reroll on Crippling Grasp or Parasite (before the Bile purge) and the extra Venom or Ghost Walk every turn. If I drop the Biles, I might trade this out for Skarlock + something else.
    Nighwretches - Seems standard. Could get 2 extra points dropping them down to Deathrippers, but in this case, I like having the blast damage on top of all the sprays.
    Nightmare - My secondary heavy hitter after Snapjaw. While the Stalkers can easily take out smaller targets, Nightmare is something that can remove large threats.
    Aiakos + Stalkers - Full benefit from Deneghra's debuffs at none of the focus cost. Main concern is keeping them safe until they can strike when I don't have a solid frontline. Hopefully, after the Biles, neither will they.
    Warwitch Siren - I considered taking two, but having one following Nightmare should be sufficient. Wondering if I would be better off taking a Necrotech though.
    Wrong Eye & Snapjaw - Seems like a natural choice with Deneghra - particularly against an opponent that I know will have guns. Hopefully I can use them to keep his heavies in check and, alongside Aiakos, threaten the assassination if Caine steps out of line. I've never used them before, so this will be a learning experience.
    Machine Wraith x2 - These guys have just been amazing at controlling enemy jack placement.
    Bile Thralls - Ok, so I will admit that these guys have had a rough time lately. My reason for taking them is this: turn two I have one arc node do a suicide run into the front lines. I arc Crippling Grasp with Puppet Master onto their front line troops (Scourge if it's Trenchers with Dig In). Follow with Parasite (now out of focus). Now march the Bile Thralls forward and spray for auto-hitting POW 15s. I don't expect them to survive. I don't need them to survive. I just need them to piece-trade so I can get everything else safely forward (Aiakos + stalkers, wrong-eye+snapjaw, and nightmare)
    Skarlock Commander - Mostly just there to help me spread out and not lose too many Biles to random AOEs before they purge. Dark Fire and Disbinding are icing if I get a chance to use them.

    Edit - Full stealth boat is a happy accident. I can see that being really annoying for some armies.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 11-28-2016 at 08:02 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  2. #2
    Annihilator Lucky Moniker's Avatar
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    You're on to something but I'm not quite sold vs cygnar with this list, for example they deal with stealth very easily, and biles will be out-threatened by almost everything cygnar can bring. If you have the models, the good ole birdy cloud wall with the gunslingers may help get things closer, but overall I think you have a solid plan
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctjud View Post
    The line of thinking should be: Kill the Elven Hooker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctjud View Post
    Woe is the day that the Pistol Wraith falls from grace and is now competing against the ILO......oh the horror.
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Cryx Mk3: If you think a model does something cool, read it again, it probably doesn't work.

  3. #3

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    This turned out to be an interesting game. Threat ranges were interesting, objectives forced some risky placement decisions, terrain was very important, and we got to see a solo get her *** run over by a heavy jack. Army composition is above; nothing changed before playing it.

    Deployment - http://prntscr.com/ddgxrn
    Going over this in detail since it can be difficult to tell what's what in Vassal at first glance.
    Deneghra is set up to run straight into that nicely placed covering wall. Wrong-Eye and Snap jaw set up on the left side with Nightmare to charge down the enemy objective (ignore the building they're on, it doesn't count). Machine Wraith and Warwitch Siren also take that flank as support. The Withershadow Combine I just put in the middle, since they need to support everyone depending on how the round turn shapes up. Since there's not much reliable cover for them, I just throw the Bile Thralls into the middle and hope I get my threat ranges correct. Nightwretches are set up to suicide charge the center on alternating turns; because honestly, most arc nodes don't survive the turn after they're used. Aiakos takes the right flank to keep my own objective defended.

    Caine sets himself up similarly to Deneghra - ready to rush into that u-shaped wall when needed. Defender and Strangeways deploy beside him, center stage. Gun Mages hold the right flank across from Aiakos with their Cyclone and Arcane Tempest Rifleman.(the building they're on doesn't count either). Centurion sets up beside the Gun Mages and ready to take my objective. Finally, the Gun Mage Captain Adept holds the left forest by himself.

    For advanced deploy, I just set up my two stalkers. One ready to hide in the forest on turn 1, while the other will get behind my Fuel Cache cloud. Caine puts Ace into the forest by his rifleman, and fills up the board center with his trenchers.

    This is probably one of the few games where I have a strong side and weak side, rather than attempting to play the entire board equally. Wonder if that's contributed a bit to my past losses... This is also the only army I've run without a solid unit presence. (Biles don't count. They're going to blow themselves up anyway )




    Cryx Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/ddgzzw
    Start by spawning a cloud from my Fuel Cache for the Stalker to hide behind. I run the Machine Wraiths up the sides - with one hiding in a forest and the other in the open (not much to hide behind, but it still effects enemy movement) WE+SJ run forward - just to double check, they can't use their animus when running, right? Nightmare also runs forward, probably 2 inches too far, with the Warwitch hiding behind it. This SHOULD make for a solid charge on turn 2. Deneghra then hides in the "bunker" of walls as planned. I run the Biles forward so they're 0.5" outside of Trencher assault range and then advance the Stalkers into their hiding spots. Aiakos sets himself up behind a building so the Stalkers stay near maximum control range.

    Cygnar Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/ddh748
    Ace and the Gun Mage Captain advance forward, out of the forest. The Captain decides that trying to hit DEF 20 on Deneghra isn't worth the trouble and instead hits Nightmare with a Flare to remove stealth. Caine then walks forward, and shoots Nightmare in the face with a Thunder Strike using a nice boost from Sylas. My heavy jack is slammed backwards, knocking the Warwitch on her *** (losing 3 hit boxes) and slams him into the building for absurd amounts of damage. He loses his right arm and cortex. Thankfully Wrong-Eye is all of 0.2" away from the wreckage and isn't touched. Ace then pings a trick shot off Wrong-Eye (no damage) which finishes off the Warwitch. Apparently stealth loses to bouncing bullets. Once the smoke has cleared, the trenchers march forward and dig in, with the two heavy jacks behind them. The Cyclone sets up a pair of bullet walls in front of the two Stalkers. Finally, the Gun Mages walk forward and turn one machine wraith into dust.

    Cryx Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/ddh748
    The tape measure was not my friend this turn. The first thing I do is run my first Nightwretch as close to the trenchers as I can while being out of melee range. Deneghra arcs Scourge into the middle of them, which can only deviate 0.8 inches. It kills two, including the captain, but thankfully leaves one alive and knocked down. She then arcs Parasite onto the knocked down one. Puppet Master not needed, all going according to plan. Bile Thralls walk forward.... and are half an inch outside of purge range. Well... that sucks. Note: Always measure before doing something. Don't trust last turn's measurements. Left Machine wraith is not able to charge Ace, so instead he runs into the forest beside him. Nightmare picks itself up off the ground and walks forward, not doing much of anything anymore. WE+SJ walk within charging distance of my opponents and submerge with Star Crossed active. Now the fun part. Aiakos walks into the forest to stay safe. Meanwhile, Stalker #1 walks around the bullet wall (yay +2 movement) and jumps behind the Gun Mages. It makes short work of the leader, which gets rid of their buffs and makes the Cyclone become autonomous. The second Stalker runs around the cloud wall, jumps behind the trenchers, and removes 2 trenchers plus their sniper. This is the best run I've ever had with the Stalkers.

    Cygnar Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/ddhirs
    First things first - the left Machine Wraith is turned to dust before it can take over Ace. The Trenchers then charge forward with assault. One pings off Nightmare, one chunks Wrong-Eye for 5 boxes, and then a few more remove some Bile Thralls (strangely 3 of them miss.... somehow). The Gun Mages then walk forward and bring the Bile Thrall numbers down to 4 while chunking my objective for 5 boxes. Defender and the charging Trenchers also easily vaporize the aggressive Nightwretch. The Centurion then obliterates my Stalker in front of him. Fortunately, the Cyclone who is now autonomous is unable to kill the other Stalker (yay 15 DEF). Rifleman moves into what it thinks is a safe range from the Stalker - relying on free strikes from the Cyclone. Gun Mage Captain Adept attempts to fire a Brutal Flare at Nightmare, but hits his own trencher instead, who makes his tough roll. Now no longer engaged, Ace moves in front of Caine and bounces a trick shot off Nightmare to hit Wrong-Eye - who makes his tough roll.

    Cryx Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/ddhnns
    I'm forced to decide between a super aggressive feat turn and a safe one. I go halfway in between, but wish I had gone more aggressive. She pops her feat catching a good chunk of Caine's army, but is out of range of casting anything (stupid me, forgetting to move my arc node first). So here she sits on 7 focus. Nightwretch is unable to get within shooting range of anything with its sad range 6, so instead it runs behind the objective to stay safe and prep for next turn. Wrong-Eye then burns through his fury to wreck the Trenchers in front of him and heal off some of the damage he took last turn. This frees up Snapjaw to charge the objective and wipe it out. (damn... that damage is absurd) Nightmare walks forward....menacingly...with no cortex or arms. Withershadow walk forward and throw out some Dark Fire; one of which manages to get a soul off a Trencher (VERY important later). Four remaining Bile Thralls lumber forwards. Three of them purge on the Trenchers (who still have Parasite, thank you WSC) while one just fires on a knocked down model. The Trenchers are no more. Stalker #2 who is still alive surprises my opponent my jumping away from the Cyclone, right behind the Rifleman..... it then proceeds to utterly fail to kill this squishy target...with back strike bonus. Aiakos, knowing he'll die next turn anyway, charges into the Gun Mages and clears out two of them, while keeping a third in melee range. End the turn with two points, thanks entirely to Snapjaw.

    Cygnar Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/ddhr44
    Deneghra's feat very much dictates this turn, as it causes Caine to immediately discount a lot of potential shooting targets and aggressive actions due to that -2 RAT and SPD. While I cannot remember which model shot which targets, I will say that between Caine, the Rifleman, and Ace I lose my Nightmare (finally), Wrong-Eye (who survives A SECOND tough roll first), Snapjaw (because wrong-eye is gone), and my final Bile Thrall. Unable to shoot anything itself, his Defender runs forward to get in the way of everything. His Centurion and Cyclone walk forwards while failing to hit Tremulus or destroy the objective. Finally, the gun mages get revenge on Aiakos, which leaves the last Stalker inert. He grabs one control point.

    Cryx Turn 4 - http://prnt.sc/ddht99
    I'm down to 6 models - time to do what Cryx does best. Overly complicated final plays using every remaining model that shouldn't work but somehow do. I run my remaining Nightwretch as close to Caine as possible to reduce deviation distance. Deneghra then arcs Scourge off the Nightwretch to knock down everything in the bunker (absolutely perfect deviation, but any deviation still would have hit Caine, which is what matters). She then throws Parasite onto Caine which, due to Blur and Cover, still misses his (comparatively massive) 12 defense. Seriously, 12 defense when knocked down. The two Withershadow Combine members who are in range and the Skarlock Commander then fire a barrage of Dark Fire spells at Caine. Due to the 1 soul on Malevous, which he uses to boost damage, they're able to take down Caine.




    Overall, this was a fun match. The Bile Thralls are actually a credible threat when under Deneghra, but I would still like to find a way to protect them until they purge; or boost their movement up the field. I wonder how they would work under Scaverous as a min unit?
    The Stalkers I'm finally starting to figure out. Instead of trying to find targets that I can safely kill and then escape, I'm just looking for the most valuable targets they can eliminate while understanding that they WILL die next turn.
    Wrong-Eye and Snap Jaw I really need to start taking more often. Very powerful, good against my frequent Cygnar games, and good for teaching me fury mechanics (I don't play any horde armies at the moment)
    Nightmare.... he didn't get to really do anything. But wow did he absorb a lot of hate, bullets, and spells. Basically the magnet that reduced damage elsewhere.
    I was surprised that this worked so well with almost no infantry to speak of. I'm typically relying heavily on two units comprised of Bane Knights, Bane Warriors, Carrion Thralls, Mechanithralls, Raiders, or Blood Witches.
    And finally - I just want to say that even against an army with a LOT of anti-stealth tech, stealth skew still made a HUGE impact. Even while half of his army can ignore it, the other half either can't shoot or have to position themselves in suboptimal or dangerous places.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 11-30-2016 at 08:05 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  4. #4

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    Next up, we're continuing this matchup this weekend with Deneghra2 vs Caine2. Here are the current army lists, which are subject to change.

    Wraith Witch Deneghra
    The Withershadow Combine
    Reaper
    Defiler x2
    Necrotech
    Machine Wraith x3
    Iron Lich Overseer
    Malice
    Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts
    Satyxis Raider Sea Witch
    Soulhunters - Leader & 4 Grunts




    Captain Allister Caine
    Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
    Stormwall
    Lightning Pod
    Sentinel
    Captain Arlan Strangewayes
    Gun Mage Captain Adept
    Journeyman Warcaster
    Charger
    Rangers - Leader & 5 Grunts
    Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  5. #5
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Next up, we're continuing this matchup this weekend with Deneghra2 vs Caine2. Here are the current army lists, which are subject to change.

    Wraith Witch Deneghra
    The Withershadow Combine
    Reaper
    Defiler x2
    Necrotech
    Machine Wraith x3
    Iron Lich Overseer
    Malice
    Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts
    Satyxis Raider Sea Witch
    Soulhunters - Leader & 4 Grunts




    Captain Allister Caine
    Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
    Stormwall
    Lightning Pod
    Sentinel
    Captain Arlan Strangewayes
    Gun Mage Captain Adept
    Journeyman Warcaster
    Charger
    Rangers - Leader & 5 Grunts
    Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts
    I'd argue that this isn't the build for you (aren't you 8 points short too?). eDenny's feat is great for ranged assassination and dealing with high def annoyances, but she doesn't do much for already accurate infantry like Satyxis. She's also interesting with DJ (for double hellmouth) and Sepulchers/Krakens (drop a template and then shoot the now shadowbound target off the board, sepulchers for ROF, Krakens for range). Pursuit on Stalkers/Nightmare is great too. Finally I'd argue that a nightwretch should be your arc node of choice. The AOE can act as a shadowbind beacon for starting an assassination run (although you probably didn't arc with it in that case).

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by npe View Post
    I'd argue that this isn't the build for you (aren't you 8 points short too?). eDenny's feat is great for ranged assassination and dealing with high def annoyances, but she doesn't do much for already accurate infantry like Satyxis. She's also interesting with DJ (for double hellmouth) and Sepulchers/Krakens (drop a template and then shoot the now shadowbound target off the board, sepulchers for ROF, Krakens for range). Pursuit on Stalkers/Nightmare is great too. Finally I'd argue that a nightwretch should be your arc node of choice. The AOE can act as a shadowbind beacon for starting an assassination run (although you probably didn't arc with it in that case).
    Just double checked - I have all of my points there.

    The Kraken and Deathjack make sense with her. Pursuit on Stalkers and Nightmare also sounds great, but sounds equally good for speeding up either Kraken or Deathjack. The one point I'm not sure about is trading the Defilers for Nightwretches. I suppose the Nightwretches would apply it more consistently (splash damage auto-hitting) whereas the SP8 would potentially hit more targets, but require RAT rolls.

    My primary thought process when building this army was that I won't be able to outgun Cygnar. So instead I would focus on battlefield control, and move them away from objectives at my discretion. Then use the feat to hold him in place and grab a few control points on both turns. The Raiders and Soulhunters act as the alpha strike units, putting the line of engagement on his side of the field. Then the harpoon jacks and machine wraiths pull apart his formations. The Raiders in particular I liked because they would apply the feat at 2", outside of most attack ranges. I'm not sold on this army AT ALL though. Like Denny1, I'm struggling to find a direction I want to go with her.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Just double checked - I have all of my points there.
    I think I missed the WSC.

    The Kraken and Deathjack make sense with her. Pursuit on Stalkers and Nightmare also sounds great, but sounds equally good for speeding up either Kraken or Deathjack. The one point I'm not sure about is trading the Defilers for Nightwretches. I suppose the Nightwretches would apply it more consistently (splash damage auto-hitting) whereas the SP8 would potentially hit more targets, but require RAT rolls.
    Pursuit doesn't work on Colossals because they can't move out of activation.

    The reason that nightwretches > defilers is feat interaction. If you can get your nightwretch close enough you can drop an AOE and automatically shadowbind something (eg. casters, anything def >=15) that you could't hit otherwise. A sepulcher especially can do a massive amount of damage when it's effectively mat 8.

    My primary thought process when building this army was that I won't be able to outgun Cygnar. So instead I would focus on battlefield control, and move them away from objectives at my discretion. Then use the feat to hold him in place and grab a few control points on both turns. The Raiders and Soulhunters act as the alpha strike units, putting the line of engagement on his side of the field. Then the harpoon jacks and machine wraiths pull apart his formations. The Raiders in particular I liked because they would apply the feat at 2", outside of most attack ranges. I'm not sold on this army AT ALL though. Like Denny1, I'm struggling to find a direction I want to go with her.
    Your logic is perfectly sound, but your list is more Agathia/Sturgis/pGaspy than eDenny. eDenny doesn't deliver/debuff arm as well but she does move jacks and reduce def at range as well as anybody. This means she leans to inaccurate units and AOEs. Blackbanes/McThralls/Bloats are examples of infantry that works better with eDenny than parasite casters. Pistol wraiths have a much easier time getting death chill on a shadowbound caster.

  8. #8

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    I suppose this would give me a good excuse to use the Mechanithralls and Sepulcher. I like them, but have had a hard time justifying them in a lot of lists so far.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    I suppose this would give me a good excuse to use the Mechanithralls and Sepulcher. I like them, but have had a hard time justifying them in a lot of lists so far.
    I'd *love* a battle report on how that works for you.

  10. #10

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    Barring any delays, it will be up Monday or Tuesday. At some point, I need to get these compiled into one location if for no other reason than to look back and see how my armies, strategies, and writing are improving.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  11. #11

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    This one I'm going to call a failure due to building a list without considering my opponent's abilities, bad target selection, and good target selection on my opponent's part. My feat felt incredibly weak without more guns, my front lines fell apart trivially, and I never felt like I had enough focus to do even half of what I wanted to do. I won't say Mechanithralls are bad with Denny2 (they might be absolutely amazing) but I will say that they're basically dead on sight against Caine2. Though on a good side, I am happy with my threat range estimates, as I did manage to get up the board with minimal casualties.

    Wraith Witch Deneghra
    Sepulcher
    Deathjack
    Nightwretch x2
    Machine Wraith
    Necrotech x2
    Mechanithralls (Min Unit)
    Skarlock Commander
    Brute Thrall
    Mechanithralls (Min Unit)
    Skarlock Commander
    Brute Thrall
    Necrosurgeon and Stitch Thralls

    vs

    Captain Allister Caine
    Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
    Stormwall
    Lightning Pod
    Sentinel
    Captain Arlan Strangewayes
    Gun Mage Captain Adept
    Journeyman Warcaster
    Charger
    Rangers - Leader & 5 Grunts
    Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts


    Deployment - http://prntscr.com/dfgad5
    My thoughts on deployment - I want to jam up the center of the board with Mechanithralls. The first wave WILL die, but the second wave should be able to hit fairly hard with Denny's debuffs. Sepulcher has better mobility on the left side, since I confirmed that he can't sit between the buildings and flags. Unfortunately, the Stormwall beats out the Sepulcher in both firepower and range. Deathjack can hold the right flank by himself and shoot Hellmouth at his front lines before charging in. Machine Wraith is sent with the Deathjack to threaten any jacks that are sent against the Deathjack.

    Cryx Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/dfgbrd
    I start by throwing 2 focus onto the Sepulcher, then walking it forward, and firing a pot shot at the rangers. 1 in 36 chance of nuking two of them on deviation, but it doesn't happen (need the right direction and 6" deviation, so 1/36). Mechanithralls run up with 4.2 inches between the first and second waves, to prevent trick shot and lightning arc shenanigans. Walking arc node #1 hides in the forest to survive until next turn (wow do I want Pathfinder right now), while #2 sets itself up on a hill with Deathjack to get that nice anti-shooting bonus. Machine Wraith runs as far as it can while the necrotechs advance towards their respective jacks. Deneghra just inches up with the necrotech and calls it a turn. I kinda wish I had something to do with her focus on turn 1, but oh well. Note - it should be 3 focus on Deathjack still. Forgot to add it on activation, but it made no difference this turn. Also note that in the future, I need to leave room in my second lines for the necrosurgeon grunts - as is, their ability doesn't reach the front lines, which is VERY bad.

    Cygnar Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/dfgfs6
    Rangers walk forward into a classic staggered gunline and proceed to fire on the mechanithralls. They drop one, cut the Brute Thrall's hit boxes in half, and utterly miss the third. Stormwall, Sentinel, and Charger cluster into the middle of the field, all just outside of the Sepulcher's maximum range. Journeyman throws an arcane shield onto the Storm and hides behind it. Caine walks behind his jacks, throws Fire For Effect on GMCA, Heightened Reflexes on himself, and calls it a day. Storm Lances move forward, prepared to charge, but out of Deathjack's and Mechanithrall charge range. Meanwhile, the GMCA hides behind a forest; daring the Machine Wraith to move.

    Cryx Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/dfgjga
    Only 1 focus is allocated to the Deathjack - nothing to Sepulcher. Nightwretch #1 (left) runs as far as he can, with the forest impeding his progress. I then activate Deneghra, walk into the killbox, and arc a boosted Hellmouth onto the rangers. It clears out three of them. She ends her activation on one focus, just in case I forgot a gun range. Left side mechanithralls charge forward. Brute Thrall breaks another ranger, but the front mechanithrall fails to hit one. Sepucher then runs forward just far enough to get its guns in range next turn while only being in range of one of the Stormwall's guns (instead of all three). Did not fire for deviation, since there was a 50% chance of doing minimal damage to his jacks, and a 50% chance of outright killing my front line. On the right side, I have deathjack throw a second Hellmouth onto the Storm lances. It clusters them horribly, but rolls minimal damage. I follow it up with a Nightwretch gun and mechanithrall charge, all of which fail to deal any significant damage. Maybe I should have debuffed their armor instead of the Rangers. Finally, I advance the Necrosurgeon and Necrotechs to keep up with their proper models.

    Cygnar Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/dfgqve
    I would like to point at at this point in time that I do not like Rangers and their ability to mitigate my DEF. That said, the turn starts with Caine walking and putting a bullet into every zombie head in his sight before teleporting backwards. Between him and the GMCA, I lose my entire front line of Mechanithralls and both Brute Thralls. The good news is that this put 3 body tokens on each Necrosurgeon. The bad news is that whenever the Storm Lances charged (now freed of being jammed), they destroyed my Nightwretch and ran over the grunt holding the body tokens. Deathjack mitigates the assault (and avoiding shots from the enemy jacks) by virtue of 15 DEF standing on the hill but loses his right arm on the charge attacks. They also break the necrotech behind him. Stormwall advances and flattens a few more back line Mechanithralls. It then somehow fails to kill the second Nightwretch, which is limping along with a single cortex box. He ends the turn with both of us contesting both flags and most of my army gone. I then realize that this was BEFORE his feat.

    Cryx Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/dfgvqt
    Ok, not all is lost. I still have a small bit of recursion, my feat, a couple of guns, and bott jacks relatively unharmed. Deneghra puts 2 focus on the Sepulcher and activates first. She walks forward (into suicide range basically) and pops her feat. She debuffs the Stormwall's ARM then holds on to the last of her focus. Nightwrech advances and fires onto the Stormwall with a boosted attack roll (so....2 dice and 1 dice on damage). Doesn't do any damage, but it does apply Denny's feat for the -3DEF. If I can just remove the Stormwall, I might be able to keep Deneghra safe for 1 more turn and then starting rampaging with the Sepulcher and Deathjack. Sepulcher charges Stormwall with its 4" melee range. With the -2ARM debuff, it breaks most of the Stormwall's armor boxes.... but doesn't manage to break a single system; let alone scrap it. Not good. My necrosurgeon puts a wall of mechanithralls in front of Deneghra to hopefully hold off any charge attacks and screen her from a couple of bullets. Deathjack goes on a rampage against the Storm Lances, killing two of them and healing up his right arm. With everything else out of range, DJ uses his remaining two focus to spray two more Lances. Oh what I wouldn't give for overtake on DJ.... I then end my turn by running the Machine wraith into his back line. Not much accomplished this turn since I focused so much on the Stormwall and failed to really harm it. I should have done everything I could to make Caine stationary and backed off Deneghra.

    Cygnar Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/dfgzmn
    Sentinel and Charger remove two of the models in front of Deneghra. This opens up room for a Ranger to get in debuff range. Again, I don't like these rangers. The Storm Lances charge to put some damage on Deathjack (still alive) and remove one of Deneghra's camped focus alongside 4 of her hit boxes. Caine then steps forward, pops his feat, and unloads. In that turn he's able to kill two mechanithralls (build up his damage), slaughter Deneghra through her remaining focus, and chunk the Sepulcher for 40 damage. Game over.



    I'm sure I could have played this MUCH better... but damn was I doomed form the start by bringing Mechanithralls against Caine2. Trying to bring down a colossal with my Sepulcher was also a huge mistake - I should have just unloaded with its 3 guns to spread out Deneghra's feat. I wasn't tracking her Incorporeal state, which would have prevented some Storm Lance damage, but would have done nothing against Caine's feat turn.

    Next game we're both going in a completely different direction - battle of the titans. Darius vs Terminus. If this doesn't end with the two casters slugging it out while surrounded by scrap metal I'm going to be very disappointed.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 12-05-2016 at 07:13 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    I'm sure I could have played this MUCH better... but damn was I doomed form the start by bringing Mechanithralls against Caine2. Trying to bring down a colossal with my Sepulcher was also a huge mistake - I should have just unloaded with its 3 guns to spread out Deneghra's feat. I wasn't tracking her Incorporeal state, which would have prevented some Storm Lance damage, but would have done nothing against Caine's feat turn.

    Next game we're both going in a completely different direction - battle of the titans. Darius vs Terminus. If this doesn't end with the two casters slugging it out while surrounded by scrap metal I'm going to be very disappointed.
    If you ever get a chance to play into that list again you might try:

    Wraith Witch Deneghra - WJ: +28
    - Leviathan - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
    - Leviathan - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
    - Nightwretch - PC: 7
    - Nightwretch - PC: 7
    - Leviathan - PC: 16
    - Nightwretch - PC: 7

    Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Carrion Thralls - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10
    Carrion Thralls - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10

    The idea is to use the arc nodes to drop marked for death on the rangers (or strider scouts/any high def infantry) and wipe them with the gunslingers + arc node. They should be able to drop junior (mark him for death and then shoot/venom him) from 16" away too. Curse of Shadows + 2 Levis + carrions should be able to take out the colossal (provided you've killed junior). The gunslingers can cloud wall a few carrions to protect your approach as well.

    What are you thinking to run with Terminus?

  13. #13

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    We were actually talking about the switch to Gunslingers and Carrion Thralls after the match, as they seem like they would be a good fit with her. I typically don't like the random shot count on Leviathans, but I can see how they could work well with Denegrha2 as well. Might be worth exploring if I come back to her after seeing what the January errata holds (she seems to be a popular candidate for SOME change)

    For Terminus I plan on running:

    Lich Lord Terminus
    Barathrum
    Deathjack
    Warwitch Siren x2
    Bane Warriors (Max Unit)
    Bane Warrior Officer and Standard
    Revenant Crew of the Atrementous (Min Unit)
    Revenant Crew Rifleman x3
    Revenant Crew of the Atrementous (Min Unit)
    Revenant Crew Rifleman x3

    Barathrum - Becomes incredibly difficult to kill under Terminus. Bonus points for a Berserk (Ravager) chain followed by Drag Below on the last one.
    Deathjack - Heavy hitter that's able to cast Annihilation (with 1 focus), Hellfire, or Ravager (save Terminus some focus). Went with two super heavies because Terminus doesn't want to hand out the focus to run light jacks. Not sure how well I can deliver him though.
    Warwitch Sirens - Primarily to allow the heavy jacks to run off one more focus. Also good solo fighters if it comes to it.
    Bane Warriors - Heavy hitters to be delivered in the second wave. Also make for decent Sacrificial Pawn targets due to Tactics:Rise.
    Revenant Crew - Primarily Sacrificial Pawn targets, since I can return between 2 and 6 per turn (2 units). The 6 Rifleman act as solo removal and caster chip damage (don't hit hard enough for outright assassination) with a pair of unblockable RAT 7 POW 13 CRAs with a 20" threat range.

    I'm a little worried at the lack of a proper arc node for Annihilation, but I'm not sure where I would even fit one. For the most part, this army hits incredibly hard against any targets. Where I can see it failing is a lack of MAT fixing outside of the CRA. Would it be worth dropping the Warwitches for Tartarus?

    I can definitely see where playing each caster only once and then moving on is proving to be a problem. It only gives a shallow understanding of each one without any real depth or time for mistake correction. Which is something I plan on fixing as soon as I've gotten through each caster once (mark 2 usage doesn't count in this case).
    Last edited by Kavrae; 12-06-2016 at 06:10 AM.
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    To be fair there was a reason I spammed Nemo3 enough for Kavrae's signature to be a thing, so I tend to agree with him on that last point. But yes, its rare, but I do bring back some of the heavy hitters by request during our matches if we need to switch from caster testing to trial by fire. Tis how I got so much Haley2 practice.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Lich Lord Terminus
    Barathrum
    Deathjack
    Warwitch Siren x2
    Bane Warriors (Max Unit)
    Bane Warrior Officer and Standard
    Revenant Crew of the Atrementous (Min Unit)
    Revenant Crew Rifleman x3
    Revenant Crew of the Atrementous (Min Unit)
    Revenant Crew Rifleman x3

    Barathrum - Becomes incredibly difficult to kill under Terminus. Bonus points for a Berserk (Ravager) chain followed by Drag Below on the last one.
    Deathjack - Heavy hitter that's able to cast Annihilation (with 1 focus), Hellfire, or Ravager (save Terminus some focus). Went with two super heavies because Terminus doesn't want to hand out the focus to run light jacks. Not sure how well I can deliver him though.
    Warwitch Sirens - Primarily to allow the heavy jacks to run off one more focus. Also good solo fighters if it comes to it.
    Bane Warriors - Heavy hitters to be delivered in the second wave. Also make for decent Sacrificial Pawn targets due to Tactics:Rise.
    Revenant Crew - Primarily Sacrificial Pawn targets, since I can return between 2 and 6 per turn (2 units). The 6 Rifleman act as solo removal and caster chip damage (don't hit hard enough for outright assassination) with a pair of unblockable RAT 7 POW 13 CRAs with a 20" threat range.
    A few things. IIRC Annihilation is useless from DJ because DJ is the spellcaster in Mk3. The souls just go off in the ether because DJ can't use them. Ravager doesn't work for the same reason too. DJ doesn't have a battlegroup.

    Erebus and a deathripper might be an interesting alternative to DJ. Ravager + Overtake is pretty godly against jamming infantry. This is especially good during Termi's feat where you can *gorge* on souls.

    Have you considered Rengrave? He makes the rifleman effective rat 5. He can also bring back even more revenants.

    Annihilation may be a trap spell unless you hide Termy behind a colossal. 4 Focus means that Termy is only camping two focus and an AOE 3 pow 10 foc 6 means that you have to boost to hit to use it.

    Soul trappers on the other hand might be more useful. They don't die as trivially with tough and even if they're knocked down they can still give termy souls within 5".

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by npe View Post
    A few things. IIRC Annihilation is useless from DJ because DJ is the spellcaster in Mk3. The souls just go off in the ether because DJ can't use them. Ravager doesn't work for the same reason too. DJ doesn't have a battlegroup.

    Erebus and a deathripper might be an interesting alternative to DJ. Ravager + Overtake is pretty godly against jamming infantry. This is especially good during Termi's feat where you can *gorge* on souls.

    Have you considered Rengrave? He makes the rifleman effective rat 5. He can also bring back even more revenants.

    Annihilation may be a trap spell unless you hide Termy behind a colossal. 4 Focus means that Termy is only camping two focus and an AOE 3 pow 10 foc 6 means that you have to boost to hit to use it.

    Soul trappers on the other hand might be more useful. They don't die as trivially with tough and even if they're knocked down they can still give termy souls within 5".
    Not getting souls from the DJ is a good point - however, wasn't there a ruling that he could cast Ravager since being part of the battlgroup counts? Sadly it wouldn't work for Skarlock, since he's not part of the battlegroup. Either way, someone mentioned that I might be relying too heavily on Deathjack in recent games (while also not getting his full value of work done) so I'm planning on switching him out. This just gives me one more reason to do so. My first thought on replacement was actually a pair of Seethers instead of Erebus. While Erebus is really tempting, particularly with Poltergeist making the block even harder to remove, Seether would have a little less focus dependency on Terminus.

    Rengrave seems like a good way to go. Didn't have enough points left for him before, but I might after removing DJ if I also remove the Warwitches, who I was already iffy on.

    If I end up with a few extra points after the above changes, I will definitely be throwing in some Soul Trappers. Normally I have an incredibly hard time keeping them alive long enough to gather souls, but with tough on them? Could work.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 12-08-2016 at 06:05 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Not getting souls from the DJ is a good point - however, wasn't there a ruling that he could cast Ravager since being part of the battlgroup counts?
    You are correct, Ravager definitely works.

    Have you considered Madelyn Corbeau? She's incredibly good with Terminus, though sadly she won't have any Sucker! targets in your build. It might be worth to consider an Inflictor as well. Even though you have Sacrificial Pawn, some builds (like Caine) can trivially remove all your Sac Pawns, but might have a tougher time to get rid of an ARM 19 heavy and being able to shunt the final shot of an assassination run, or an Eiryss shot or something, can be a life saver.
    Last edited by Gamingdevil; 12-08-2016 at 11:57 PM.

  18. #18

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    Why wouldn't she have any Sucker! targets? Doesn't it just require friendly non-incorporeal warrior models, which includes the Banes and Atrementous?

    Inflictor though... that could be a good option. It doesn't have even close to the threat potential that Seether has, but it does allow Terminus to play forward that much more safely. I would probably want to take a Necrotech or two if I went with the Inflictor.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Not getting souls from the DJ is a good point - however, wasn't there a ruling that he could cast Ravager since being part of the battlgroup counts?
    You're right on Ravager. That means that convection works too. I might start taking DJ with Sturgis because of this.

    Sadly it wouldn't work for Skarlock, since he's not part of the battlegroup. Either way, someone mentioned that I might be relying too heavily on Deathjack in recent games (while also not getting his full value of work done) so I'm planning on switching him out. This just gives me one more reason to do so. My first thought on replacement was actually a pair of Seethers instead of Erebus. While Erebus is really tempting, particularly with Poltergeist making the block even harder to remove, Seether would have a little less focus dependency on Terminus.

    Rengrave seems like a good way to go. Didn't have enough points left for him before, but I might after removing DJ if I also remove the Warwitches, who I was already iffy on.

    If I end up with a few extra points after the above changes, I will definitely be throwing in some Soul Trappers. Normally I have an incredibly hard time keeping them alive long enough to gather souls, but with tough on them? Could work.
    Tell us how it goes!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Why wouldn't she have any Sucker! targets? Doesn't it just require friendly non-incorporeal warrior models, which includes the Banes and Atrementous?
    He might be confusing Ragman's sac pawn with Madelyn? Ragman is living models, Madelyn is warrior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Why wouldn't she have any Sucker! targets? Doesn't it just require friendly non-incorporeal warrior models, which includes the Banes and Atrementous?
    Oh yeah, you're right, I had it mixed up with the old version. Which is silly, because I've actually played the new version, correctly...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by npe View Post
    You're right on Ravager. That means that convection works too. I might start taking DJ with Sturgis because of this.
    Sadly Convection still doesn't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Convection
    ... that is in its control range.

  23. #23
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    Stupid control range. It's not battle group it's control range.

  24. #24

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    We finally got in that Terminus vs Darius game, 11 days later. (funny how my topics jump from one caster to another. This started as a pDenny discussion) This was meant to be a "battle of the titans" between the two rival factions' heaviest front line warcasters. This was slated to be an unusual match, since both of us tend towards backline casters. This was also my chance to test out the new Mechanithrall and Bane Warrior changes. Spoiler - the additions are absolutely amazing and I am in no way disappointed. This was also a four hour game... it was absurd and I am mentally drained today.

    Lich Lord Terminus
    Barathrum
    Seether
    Bane Lord Tartarus
    Bane Warriors (Max Unit)
    Bane Warrior Officier + Standard
    Machine Wraith x2
    Necrosurgeon + Stitch Thralls x2
    Mechanithralls (Min Unit)
    Skarlock Commander
    Brute Thrall x3
    Mechanithralls (Min Unit)
    Skarlock Commander
    Brute Thrall x3

    Captain E. Dominic Darius
    Halfjacks
    Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker
    Hammersmith
    Stormwall
    Lightning Pod
    Lancer
    Captain Arlan Strangewayes
    Journeyman Warcaster
    Firefly
    Ragman
    Stormsmith Stormcaller
    Stormsmiths
    Sword Knights (Max Unit)


    Deployment - http://prnt.sc/dpkhl3
    This actually took me a while and I'm glad I wasn't on the clock. Mechanithralls within shield guard range. Necrosurgeon grunts within shield guard and body collection range of the front lines. Jacks and Terminus in sheild guard range. Plenty of infantry in sack pawn range. This actually makes deployment and unpacking a little difficult and time consuming; but I'm happy with the results. I picked this scenario because it complimented our "clash of titans" theme nicely. Note: Ignoring the two buildings on the top and one on the bottom because they disrupt deployment.


    Cryx Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/dpkk0o
    Mechanithralls run up 11 inches to keep themselves all within Necrosurgeon max range. This was SOOO much more important than getting that extra inch of movement. Brutes space out evenly to make sure everything has shield guard, to fend off low POW shots. One Machine Wraith opts for shield guard protection while the other hides in a forest (magical Stormsmith weapons). Terminus walks forward and throws Malediction on himself. It's actually kind of annoying that I can't have a Skarlock do this, because it hinders his turn 1 movement by 6 inches (can't run). Banes deploy in such a way that they wrap around Terminus to not get in the way of his movement next turn. This turns out to be a mistake - I should have had them spread out more to both sides of him. Finally, both heavy jacks run forward with the second line.

    Cygnar Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/dpkpib
    Darius starts by moving the Hammersmith forward with his Crane. He then walks forward and removes some Mechanithralls with a few arcane bolts. Two of the halfjacks are kept in reserve while one sets up as a landmine. Hammersmith, Charger, and Stormwall advance while taking down a few more Mechanithralls (5 in total), destroying one Brute Thralls, and forcing a tough roll on another Brute Thrall (success!). I think I actually missed grabbing one body token somewhere in there. He then puts the two bullet walls in front of my Mechanithralls; effectively preventing them from charging forward next turn. Sword Knights advance as a line with the Lancer behind them. Finally the stormcallers advance with one beside the Sword Knights and one protected in a forest. Turn ends with Arcane Shield on the Stormwall, and Fortify on Hammersmith - upkept throughout the match.

    Cryx Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/dpkug6
    At this point I'm realizing that order of activation is really important and equally difficult with my setup. I start by advancing the necrosurgeons - which get tied up in the Mechanithralls. Left side surgeon creates 3 thralls, while the right side creates two (red disruption tokens indicated new ones which can't attack this turn) I then activate the left side Mechanithralls. Since they can't charge past the wall or bullet walls, I have them run instead and jam things up as much as possible. I try to keep half of them in body collection range. I actually end up with two in B2B with Darius - forcing him to deal with them next turn before he can move (potentially wasting focus or attacks on 2 points of models) Seether runs up beside them to get into Countercharge range (mistake - not positioning correctly around that wall) Right side Mechanithralls charge/run. The ones charging utterly fail to deal any damage to the high DEF sword knights while the running ones lose a LOT of distance going around the bullet walls. Luckily everything is in collection range and most are still within Tough range. Barathrums digs in into the middle of the thrall second wave. Terminus runs forward without casting anything (oh how I miss an arc node right now to put Annihilation on those Sword Knights. Maybe I'll downgrade the Seether to get one.) Banes advance behind Terminus as a brick. Finally, one Machine Wraith advances into the Mechanithrall horde and the other runs up beside a Stormcaller (I... had briefly forgotten that Incorporeal models don't engage) End result - I've thoroughly jammed him up, have control of the center of the board and 1 flag, but haven't killed anything.

    Cygnar Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/dpl97m
    The turn starts with the landmine halfjack I had forgotten about detonating - removing one Mechanithrall from around Darius. Should have placed him an inch to the left -_-*. Stormwall advanced into the middle of the battlefield and unleashes its guns with a full cortex of focus. The two Brute Thralls around Hammersmith are removed, a few more Mechanithralls are destroyed, I lose a few Banes, and one Stitch Thrall is dust. His stormpod fails to damage anything at all. Darius then moves the Hammersmith over with his crane and moves himself back a bit - outside of Terminus' charge range (he was apparently JUST inside of it, heheh). Hammersmith then proceeds to charge my Seether (who does minimal damage on the countercharge) and wreck his entire left side. He has his Sword Knights charge, wiping out the majority of the right side Mechanithrall unit. Unfortunately, the Lancer, which now has a charge lane to Tartarus, utterly fails to eliminate him (2hp left). Meanwhile a Barathrum countercharge put a little damage onto said Lancer. Stormcallers then use Triangulation to remove a Machine Wraith and put a little damage into the horde.

    Cryx Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/dplfys
    This is the turn I expect to get a lot of work done. Terminus activates first, pops his feat, and charges the Stormwall. An assault spray onto the Storm Knights kills only a single knight (yep... that's it). He then unleashes 4 focus worth of boosted attacks onto the Stormwall. With Malediction, he manages to take out 1/3 of its boxes. I create 3 more Mechanithralls and then activate my left side Mechanithralls to get them out of the way. Half of them jam up Darius again (seriously, I am loving this) while one Brute charges his colossal for minimum damage. I have my Machine Wraith charge behind the Lancer (through everything via Incorporeal) and use it to kill his own Sword Knight, opening up Tartarus to move. Tartarus activates, putting Curse on the Stormwall. Unable to charge without taking a free strike, he instead charges to the side of the Lancer, taking 1 more damage from the bullet wall (damn that was close). Barathrum activates and finishes off the Lancer - but loses its cortex to that damn electric shield in the process. Next I make a gamble on my Bane Warriors charging through the bullet walls; any who don't die will hit the Stormwall. Unfortunately I screwed up 2 things. 1) Brute Thrall is now in the way, thus limiting my charge space. 2) I have a Bane make his tough roll, which plops him down (stationary) in the middle of my own charge lanes. In the end, I only get 2 Bane Warrior charge attacks (one pathetic roll and one amazing one), eliminating a grand total of half the Colossal's boxes. The rest of the Bane Warriors that couldn't charge Stormwall instead charge the Hammersmith - dealing a little damage (nothing significant sadly). But not all is lost - if I can get enough souls on Terminus, I should be fine. The right side Mechanithralls activate and start attacking the Storm Blades. All of them, including the Brute Thrall, fail to kill ANYTHING. At this point Terminus only has 2 souls from his feat. I'm doomed. While I'm not happy with the results or my mistakes, I am happy with now I was able to chain together various abilities and juggle unit activates more effectively than in previous games.

    Cygnar Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/dplncu
    Now here's the problem with dealing half of the Stormwall's boxes in a single turn - I didn't break all of them. Darius activates and feats - fully healing the Stormwall. He then blasts the Mechanthrall in front of him to pieces while knocking down the other two. This frees him up to escape to the back lines (near his deployment zone). Hammersmith, accepting that he's not getting out of that spot alive, smashes the Seether until it stops moving. The Stormwall attempts to do the same to Terminus, using 2 of his own attacks and 6 more from Jackhammer, but leaves the Lich alive with 4 boxes. (Admit it - you want to see an animation with Terminus fighting a Stormwall in hand-to-hand combat) He then has his Sword Knights charge, wipe out a few more Mechanithralls (there's always more), FINALLY kill Tartarus, smash my corporeal Machine Wraith, and position themselves between me and their flag. Unfortunately, two of them die to free strikes on the charge, giving Terminus 2 more souls for next turn. He finishes up his turn by zapping a few more zombies with oddly places Triangulation blasts.

    Cryx Turn 4 - http://prnt.sc/dplsh3
    Time to make a new plan, because I hadn't planned on being alive at this point! I start off my turn with a very odd maneuver - having Terminus charge a sword knight. This allows me to assault, killing one of them and missing the Stormcaller (yay one more soul!). Since I ended my movement in melee range of my target before spray killed him, I switch my charge attack (without the boost now) to the Stormwall. Terminus proceeds to spend focus like candy smashing the left half of the Stormwall to tiny pieces (yay for having the Bane armor debuff this turn). Terminus's movement also opens up space for three Bane Warriors to charge Stormwall and finish it off. Double armor debuff + Bane Warrior charge is absolutely brutal. Unfortunately, I forgot to check my command range on the left side Bane Warriors while charging the leader. Two of them attack the Hammersmith while two of them are unable to attack; being out of command range. Oopse. Right side Necrosurgeon spawns a few more Mechanithralls that jam up his flag while the active ones kill a few more Sword Knights (even more souls!) Left side Surgeon, Stitch Thralls, and Mechanithralls completely jam up Darius, Charger, halfjacks, and anything else they can reach (no noticable damage). I end my turn grabbing two points from Dominating the zone.

    Cygnar Turn 4 - http://prnt.sc/dplyrd
    This was effectively a turn dominated by one desperation play after another - to prevent Terminus from scoring this turn. Hammersmith is stuck where it is and is content with beating up some Bane Warriors (none die). Charger lives up to his namesake and charges Terminus, but only deals 2 points of damage out of 4 needed. The Stormcallers I believe put one more damage onto Terminus, leaving him with 1 box. Darius walks away from the Machanithralls, taking 6 damage in free strikes (only damage he took all game) to get in range of Terminus; he fails to move or remove the Lich. Finally a Sword Knight charges Terminus, careful not to take a Brute Thrall free strike, and strikes down Terminus. Who makes his tough roll.

    Game Over - http://prnt.sc/dpm04u
    Terminus turns around, then smacks the lone Storm Knight (who deserves a statue in his honor) with a double boosted Glaive. This frees up the control zone for me to grab 2 more points at the end of the turn. Final point is picked up from controlling my opponent's flag (picture taken by mistake for removing the contesting Stormcaller)


    Notable Things
    1) Mechanithralls on Terminus are just ridiculous. Two min units of them that just never went away - even after 4 rounds of abuse and destruction. Sure, they never really killed anything, but they jammed up the board and consumed attacks like you wouldn't believe.
    2) When runnings bricks, apparently it's really easy to block your own charge lanes or botch order of activations
    3) When facing Darius... make sure that all jacks you try to damage are killed in a single round or don't bother.
    4) Switching my playstyle from conservative to more aggressive is working out so much better. "**** it, just charge" seems to be a reliable motto.
    5) Apparently Terminus can survive fighting a Stormwall in melee... This needs to be an anime scene.
    6) Stormcallers are REALLY annoying to deal with, but they have issues hitting things that are engaged.
    7) Enjoying AD on Mechanithralls. It makes deployment and turn 1 advancement pretty nice.
    8) Sword Knights are unexpectedly hard to remove
    9) Putting Machine Wraiths into the middle of a cluster**** seems to work out fairly well.
    10) Incorporeal things can't engage or free strike anymore. I must repeat this to myself until it sticks.
    11) I want an arc node with Terminus. Give him something to do with that extra focus on turn 2 where I didn't cast any of my spells. Sure I should have used Annihilation on the Sword Knights, but I used that focus to attack Stormwall, expecting more results.
    12) Finally - the number of sacrificial attempts he made to kill Terminus on the final round, all of which came INCREDIBLY close, shows just how many attack vectors I hadn't accounted for. Counting on my opponent to play with self preservation in mind is an easy way to lose what appears to be a solid game.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 12-30-2016 at 11:55 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Terminus walks forward and throws Malediction on himself. It's actually kind of annoying that I can't have a Skarlock do this, because it hinders his turn 1 movement by 6 inches (can't run).
    You can cast Malediction and then fail a charge against the stormwall. Then you only lose 3" if that helps.

  26. #26

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    First thing, I want to say I like your reports. Keep it up.

    I think you might consider the Withershadow Combine for Terminus. While it's true that Maelovus can only cast Hellfire off of his list you still get Admonia and Tremulus. The free upkeep for Admonia merits some consideration. While 1 focus on Gaspy can buy you a Mat 6 Pow 17 attack (with sscything touch), a single focus on Terminus buys you a Mat 9 Pow 18 attack (with malediction). Sure I am taking liberties with the situation here, but the fact of the matter is this, a single point of focus on Terminus is more meaningful than a point of focus on many other casters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hussarlance View Post
    ...Terminus had to have been standing around eating souls when he said to himself "You know what? 100 years ago I looked good in puffy sleeves. I rock that ****! I want puffy sleeves. SKARLOCK! Get me puffy sleeves!"

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    10) Incorporeal things can't engage or free strike anymore. I must repeat this to myself until it sticks.
    Just wanted to point out that Incorporeal doesn't prevent models from engaging. They cannot make free strikes, true, but they do still have melee ranges and cause a model to be engaged.
    Very interesting battle reports. Keep them coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npe View Post
    You can cast Malediction and then fail a charge against the stormwall. Then you only lose 3" if that helps.
    That is a good idea - I'll keep that in mind for future games, since that would probably apply to a lot of casters on turn 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hussarlance View Post
    First thing, I want to say I like your reports. Keep it up.

    I think you might consider the Withershadow Combine for Terminus. While it's true that Maelovus can only cast Hellfire off of his list you still get Admonia and Tremulus. The free upkeep for Admonia merits some consideration. While 1 focus on Gaspy can buy you a Mat 6 Pow 17 attack (with sscything touch), a single focus on Terminus buys you a Mat 9 Pow 18 attack (with malediction). Sure I am taking liberties with the situation here, but the fact of the matter is this, a single point of focus on Terminus is more meaningful than a point of focus on many other casters.
    The extra focus on Terminus every turn would be really nice. It's hard to fit in a four cost Annihilation when I only have 5 focus to begin with. Could be worth the 9 point investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DivideBy0 View Post
    Just wanted to point out that Incorporeal doesn't prevent models from engaging. They cannot make free strikes, true, but they do still have melee ranges and cause a model to be engaged.
    Very interesting battle reports. Keep them coming.
    OH! So... I could have an Incorporeal Machine Wraith next to a ranged model to prevent it from shooting. The jack could move away without incurring a free strike, but this would prevent it from getting an aim bonus. Is this correct?
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  29. #29
    Destroyer of Worlds DivideBy0's Avatar
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    On my phone, so I can't quote, but yes. That's correct. Incorporeal models will force enemy guns to move, preventing the aiming bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crump View Post
    The best feat in the game is a bad play from your opponent.
    #SaCryxis2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    The extra focus on Terminus every turn would be really nice. It's hard to fit in a four cost Annihilation when I only have 5 focus to begin with. Could be worth the 9 point investment.
    8 points is also 4 tough brutes, all of which have a pow 19 attack and can pile on for effective mat 8, p+s 21 (23 with an assisting bane) attacks thanks to malediction.

    Which is not to say that the WSC isn't a valid option with Termy (an extra hellfire, a reroll and magic weapons are also major wins).
    Last edited by npe; 12-31-2016 at 11:56 PM. Reason: I still like the WSC

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    Destroyer of Worlds SlenderBurrito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    Tartarus activates, putting Curse on the Stormwall. Unable to charge without taking a free strike, he instead charges to the side of the Lancer
    Please do note that Tartarus has Ghostly, and thusly ignores free strikes and terrain.

    This being said though, npe, Kavrae already does have two full Brute Squads. So. You know. No reason to tell them what they're already spending points on.

    Curiously, I wonder if Press Gangers might be worth taking with Terminus. More AD Tough bodies to be recycled and further eat the enemy's clock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlenderBurrito View Post
    This being said though, npe, Kavrae already does have two full Brute Squads. So. You know. No reason to tell them what they're already spending points on.
    I'm actually saying to add *more* instead of the WSC if all you care about is attacks. A brute combo strike is the second highest base p+s attack in Cryx (behind a Slayer combo strike). You can squeeze in 9-12 Brutes if you go full thralls. That's one of the best ways to chew through armor now that your brutes also protect your jacks.

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    Ugh... Tartarus DOES have ghostly... That's a pretty important thing to overlook.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

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