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  1. #1

    Default Scaverous vs Stryker 3

    Up next in our Cryx vs Cygnar matches: Lord Exhumator Scaverous vs Lord General Coleman Stryker. Place your bets now! Bonus points if you call specific events instead of just the ending. Also taking suggestions on map (vassal) and scenario as they haven't been chosen yet.

    Lord Exhumator Scaverous
    Withershadow Combine
    Erebus
    Deathripper x2
    Machine Wraith x3
    Necrotech x2
    Aiakos, Scourge of the Meredius
    Malice
    Soul Trapper x3
    Croes Cutthraots - Leader & 9 Grunts
    Bane Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts

    vs

    Lord General Coleman Stryker
    Squire
    Ol’ Rowdy
    Defender
    Major Katherine Laddermore
    Journeyman Warcaster
    Firefly
    Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
    Trencher Infantry - Leader and 5 Grunts
    Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper
    Storm Lances - Leader & 2 Grunts
    Storm Lances - Leader & 2 Grunts


    Withershadow Combine seems like an obvious inclusion for Scaverous. At minimum, they're an extra Telekenesis, focus, and reroll on Malice each turn. Question - How exactly does Excarnate work with them?
    Erebus is my primary beatstick that I want to get up the field with Death Ward - It probably won't kill any of his heavy jacks 1v1, but Freeze will do wonders for finishing them off, or at least screwing up his Focus economy.
    Pair of Deathrippers because I don't want Scaverous anywhere near the front lines.
    Machine Wraiths just make my control game that much more dangerous.
    Necrotechs because four jacks - two of which SHOULD survive long enough to actually get repairs
    Soul Trappers to set up a soul network (there's plenty of infantry and solos to siphon from)
    Croe's Cutthroats I'm taking because I've never used them before, want to try them, and this seems like as good a time as any.
    Bane Knights look like good Excarnate beneficiaries, as well as playing well into the control game. Vengeance setting up interesting charge options could prevent him from taking pot shots until he can commit to removing them all.
    Aiakos + Malice allow me to run one of my favorite control jacks without burning Scaverous's focus. Effectively trades out the potential ARM buff (Death Ward) for a 2" threat extension. Double harpoon isn't too bad either. I considered ILO, but this seemed more interesting for now.

    Overall, I have plenty of control elements, minimum level of attrition with Excarnate, and a couple of assassination vectors if I get tricky enough. This will be a difficult game for me to run, but it looks fun. As almost a direct opposite, however, I'm going against the Charge Turn From Hell. What my opponent lacks in control and trickery, he more than makes up for in mobility and sheer firepower, as whatever he charges WILL die.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 01-03-2017 at 08:58 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  2. #2

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    Excarnate from the Withershadow (or Skarlock) doesn't create a new model as they don't have a CTRL range.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteVieBizzLe View Post
    Excarnate from the Withershadow (or Skarlock) doesn't create a new model as they don't have a CTRL range.
    That is disappointing, but not wholly unexpected. Oh well, they'll still be great for Telekinesis, focus, and Malice (or other) rerolls.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    That is disappointing, but not wholly unexpected. Oh well, they'll still be great for Telekinesis, focus, and Malice (or other) rerolls.
    The Withershadow work wonderfully with Scaverous and Croes.

    One important thing to realize is that the magic weapons they give out are NOT friendly faction. You can make Croes shots magical. This can be huge against models with windwall, or passaged jacks.

    The out of activation TK can be huge, as it allows you to disengage an arc node, run it, then active Scaverous.

    Puppet strings is great on Croe to ensure a silence, or Scaverous to ensure a hit with a spell.

    Additionally you will almost always have an upkeep up, so the free upkeep is basically a free focus. Another huge plus.

  5. #5

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    Im not sure on the necrotechs. The deathrippers will almost never be in a position to get repaired and if you are expecting charge targets to die one of those charge targets will be a heavy. Leaving you one jack for possible repairing.

  6. #6
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    One remark, in addition to what has already been said: you don't necessarily give up Death Ward on Malice, since it's not battlegroup restricted, you will have to choose between Erebus, Scaverous, Malice and the Bane Knights though (ARM 18 is not too shabby)

  7. #7

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    The necro techs honestly seem like a waste of points. I'd run a raider captain.
    Now hear me out, they have knockdown on their weapons. TK and a raider captain makes them a scary threat. Also croe's can just melt anything you knock down with them.
    Alternately, a WWS would be fine as well, with the boost from feat.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
    The necro techs honestly seem like a waste of points. I'd run a raider captain.
    Now hear me out, they have knockdown on their weapons. TK and a raider captain makes them a scary threat. Also croe's can just melt anything you knock down with them.
    Alternately, a WWS would be fine as well, with the boost from feat.
    I'm not saying that a Raider Captain is bad, but why would they help Croe's melt anything specifically? They need the extra damage to effectively melt something, so I'm going to assume they're in the back arc, at that point they are RAT 7 with boosted attack rolls. They should be able to hit anything you would want the Captain to knockdown.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamingdevil View Post
    I'm not saying that a Raider Captain is bad, but why would they help Croe's melt anything specifically? They need the extra damage to effectively melt something, so I'm going to assume they're in the back arc, at that point they are RAT 7 with boosted attack rolls. They should be able to hit anything you would want the Captain to knockdown.
    Because rat 5 is poop. ):
    That is all.

  10. #10
    Destroyer of Worlds Ender101's Avatar
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    Overall I like your list, I also think that the necrotechs could be left at home, if nothing else vs Stryker3 if his stuff gets on your heavies, they're unlikely to get repaired, and your chickens are likely to be out of position to benefit from them. If this is a more general list then there's nothing wrong with keeping them around.

    Stryker3 is a very straightforward caster, which Scaverous will likely do well against, with few tricks up his sleeves I imagine Stryker will struggle in this match-up, simply TK his heavies around and no charging for them, all you have to really worry about are those Storm Lances, they pack a whollop, but with a debuff here and there I think you'll be able to handle them nicely. The trenchers will protect his heavy hitters, and I would imagine you'll put them at the top of your priority list.

    Don't get too attached to your infantry, they're going to get zapped right good.
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  11. #11
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    Scavvy really really likes Cephalyx Overlords on feat turn. 3x 7+3d6 sprays will vaporize infantry.

    It's worth considering swapping the Knights for Riders as well. Death Ward can bring Riders up to ARM 20. With impact attacks + regular attacks they can also be great soul collectors too.

  12. #12

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    Final lists for the match

    Lord Exhumator Scaverous
    The Withershadow Combine
    Erebus
    Deathripper x2
    Machine Wraith x3
    Soul Trapper x2
    Aiakos, Scourge of the Meredius
    Malice
    Pistol Wraith
    Croe's Cutthroats - Leader & 9 Grunts
    Bane Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts

    vs

    Lord General Coleman Stryker
    Squire
    Ol’ Rowdy
    Defender
    Major Katherine Laddermore
    Journeyman Warcaster
    Firefly
    Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
    Gun Mage Captain Adept
    Trencher Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts
    Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper
    Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts

    I probably should have traded out the Cutthroats for Overlords, but in this case I wanted to try out the unit at least once. I will try out the Bane Rider swap and Overlords instead of Croes next game to see how they go.


    Deployment - http://prnt.sc/dujoje
    I opted to go second, choosing the side of the board which would give me the most terrain to work with while forcing him to walk into the open to get to my flag. I clustered the majority of my control elements on one side so I could counter his jack lineup and prevent Stryker himself from advancing. Placing both units on the left was probably a mistake, but my thinking was that the Cutthroats could advance to the side of the map while the Banes run/charge forward, forcing the Stormlances to split their focus or get surrounded (VERY bad with Cutthroats involved)


    Cygnar Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/dujqnh
    Trenchers advance with their cloud wall, just in case I'm able to pull enough shenanigans to get in a Malice pull turn 1. Also prevents me from reliably running in a sacrificial Deathripper to arc Feast of Worms. Storm Lances advance with Arcane Shield (wow does this make them hard to remove). Defender gets Iron Aggression and hides behind the cloud wall with the Gun Mage Captain adept behind a wall to his right. Stryker and Rowdy use Escort plus Fury (both upkept all game) then both advance to the second line behind his cloud wall. Finally, Firefly gives him a jack presence on the left side of the field (splitting the field with that large rock in the center). Overall, he's sitting in a highly defensive position that will be hard to break, at the cost of blocking some of his own potential turn 2 charges.

    Cryx Turn 1 - http://prnt.sc/dujt8k
    I start with Scaverous himself, putting Death Ward on Malice and Soul Harvester on the Bane Knights. He also TKs Malice forward 2 inches. Oh what I wouldn't give for 1 more focus on him turn 1 to use two buffs and Feast of Worms. Withershadow combine TK Erebus forward as well, followed by Erebus running behind the large rock. This should put him in a good spot to kill any trenchers that advance, giving Scaverous some easy souls. Aiakos throws Escort on Malice then the two of them advance into the forest, ready to pull anything that advances next turn. Croes position themselves so that half of them are inside the forest and the other half are further back - hopefully mitigating any charges slightly. Unfortunately, I realize after that I had put Croe in the first group and am likely to lose him.... Bane Knights move themselves are far forward as possible. The obstruction is more problematic than I expected but it's not a terrible loss. (I realize now that is was meant to be a hill, not obstruction) Finally, the Machine Wraiths put themselves into the most defensive places they can find.

    Cygnar Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/duk20e
    Starting on the left, Laddermore and the Storm Lances advance and start firing on the Croes and Banes. This actually took a while to figure out charge lanes, movement, etc around that forest. In the end, they wipe out three Bane Knights, 2 Cutthroats, and Croe himself. Then they reposition as best they can; which would have worked very nicely if the banes only had a 1" melee. The trenchers do a split charge with half of them taking out four Bane Knights and the other half jamming up Malice (they kept missing him somehow). This results in the captain (to stay in range of them all) being base-to-base with Erebus. He's... resigned himself to death, but it's worth it. GMCA attempts to hit a Machine Wraith while ignoring all of its defensive tech - but somehow still misses. Finally, Defender charges Erebus, expecting to block him in and deal a fair amount of damage, but expecting to become stationary in return. He one-rounds the character jack by himself! Scrap. Gone. He now has effective control over the center of the board.

    Cryx Turn 2 - http://prnt.sc/duk9qb
    I will start by saying that I should have used my feat at this point, but did not anticipate needing it as much as I did. I start with Vengeance on the Banes killing two Trenches and giving them a very important 3" threat extension. Since they have no chance at this point of getting into the back arcs, I have the Cutthroats charge his cavalry, doing essentially 0 damage but jamming them up. I can now charge the Banes, wiping out the last left side Trencher and dealing a fair amount of damage to his Lances. Sadly, none of them die. Scaverous activates and attempts to Excanate the Trencher in front of him - but completely misses a boosted roll. He spends his last 2 focus using TK on Defender to move him closer. He ends his activation less than happy. Pistol Wraith activates, advances behind the two Trenchers that are jamming Malice, and.... completely miss both. Instead, Aiakos stays in the forest (safety from Defender and Rowdy) and harpoons one Trencher to death, giving Malice his first soul. Finally Malice can activate. With Puppet Master as an insurance policy, he Harpoons the Defender in the back, dragging him in while dealing minimal damage. The free melee chunks the enemy jack and takes it over with a soul. I have my opponent's own Defender walk forward and smash the Trencher Captain. Malice then uses his remaining attacks to remove the jamming units around him, ending on 2 souls + Death Ward for ARM 21. Next, I further screw with the Defender by taking him over with a Machine Wraith. I advance him backwards, fire at his Squire, and completely fail to kill the little thing. Oh well, at least he's facing backwards. Second Machine Wraiths fails to kill the GMCA on a charge. Third Machine Wraith, which got the 2" TK, is able to charge his Firefly. I have it turn around and advance on his Journeyman Warcaster. Sadly I only manage to deal a couple points of damage instead of killing it. Throughout all this I've forgotten that I have Knowledge of the Damned - my worst offense all game.

    Cygnar Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/dukfmz
    My one good note this turn is that I have completely scrambled his ability to use his feat effectively. Storm lances are all engaged, Defender and Firefly are facing backwards, and Stryker has nothing in range. The bad note is that he activates it anyway and two models make use of it. The Storm Lances start by completely decimating my Bane Knights and Cutthroats, leaving only two alive (he had to miss eventually). One of them that DOES have the ability to charge wipes out a completely healthy arc node and sits on my flag for 1 point (curse you Stryker3 feat for ignoring my DEF 14). Firefly advances and helps to remove any lingering Bane Knights. In a display of excellent marksmanship, his Journeyman Warcaster removes a Machine Wraith with his hand cannon. Next the Defender turns around and smashes my second arc node with a hammer. Its metallic remains litter the forest. Then Rowdy charges. Throw in Stryker's feat... and he removes the ARM 21 jack with exact damage. This includes two Knowledge rerolls that fail to change the outcome and carefully allocating damage with Death Ward to keep my harpoon active. My overly buffed Character jack that I probably invested too much in is gone. Finally, the GMCA utterly fails to hit the corporeal Machine Wraith in his face. These two are doomed to fight to a stalemate for all of eternity.

    Cryx Turn 3 - http://prnt.sc/dukigz
    The removal of Malice completely scrambles my previous turn's plans to assassinate Stryker via TK + harpoon. It was looking like a solid plan with many ways to make it happen. Oh well, I still have options. Pistol Wraith, now incorporeal again, advances on Stryker and attempts to make him stationary. The first shot misses horribly.... So does the knowledge reroll. The second shot doesn't do anything either. It's not that he has a bad RAT, but he's now missed 2 shots that should have hit on 7s and 2 that should have hit on 8s. Plan B has failed. The Withershadow Combine stay in place and are about to start their round of spells.... but Rowdy's countercharge activates. He kills Malevous (removing my spell slave ability) and gets in melee with Scaverous. Plan C has failed. Plan D I feat and TK Rowdy away/backwards out of my face, then attempt to move Scaverous far enough forward to TK Stryker, debuff him as much as possible, then have his own Defender with the game for me. Sadly Scaverous, even with TK on himself, doesn't have the range to Stryker with a spell (ends up 10 inches away, not 8). I need an arc node. Plan D has failed. Out of options, I surrender.


    Important Notes
    1) I did not like Croe's Cutthroats at all. I probably played them horrendously badly, but I can't think of a better way to use them in this situation. A unit of Carrion Thralls and a second Pistol Wraith probably would have served me better. Or even a unit of Overlords.
    2) While the end game numbers don't reflect it (I didn't kill much) it still felt like a really good game. I was able to control his placement, almost completely mitigate his feat turn, and in general just make this overly complicated for Stryker to do anything. Bonus points for controlling a Defender twice in one turn! (Dark Domination and Possession can both be used, just not two of the same one)
    3) The removal of Erebus before it could do anything was a huge blow. I didn't expect to lose it to a single charge.
    4) Losing Malice after I invested so much into it was also a harsh blow. I really did not expect that much damage from Rowdy and probably should have protected Malice better.
    5) Souls were not a problem. Both Malice and Scaverous has PLENTY. Even if I didn't use them effectively, getting them was just fine.
    6) Drag jacks go VERY nicely with Scaverous. Doubly so with the Withershadow's Puppet Master as insurance. I wonder if a Reaper is worth losing Erebus. Maybe not.
    7) Should have used feat turn 2. That is quite clear now
    8) I did not use Aiakos effectively. I forgot to activate his first spell, which meant I wasted two attacks on Trenchers that got their tough rolls (spell prevents tough). I'm also considering using ILO instead of Aiakos, but it's iffy at best.
    9) I'm probably going to buy Scaverous as one of my main two casters. He's just so much fun and, even if I didn't use them all this game, I find all of his spells to be useful.
    Last edited by Kavrae; 01-12-2017 at 07:50 AM.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  13. #13

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    How did Rowdy counter charge if the Withershadow didn't move?

    Also that game looked miserable.

  14. #14

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    Just to note Croe is NOT officer, so if he dies you can promote one of the cutthroats to become new Croe!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    1) I did not like Croe's Cutthroats at all. I probably played them horrendously badly, but I can't think of a better way to use them in this situation. A unit of Carrion Thralls and a second Pistol Wraith probably would have served me better. Or even a unit of Overlords.
    As someone mentioned, Croe is not an officer, so if he dies, you get to replace him. Turns out, he was in disguise the whole time!

    As a second point, about your use of the cutthroats, you almost never want to charge or shoot someone in the front with them. If the stormlances were a huge problem for you, pop Scaverous feet, and TK each of them forward, and turn them around. At that point you get your extra dice on to hit and damage. Don't ever use your Cutthroats if you don't have rear shots/attacks. Croes only work well on TK'ed targets.

    My standard procedure is to run an arcnode up, TK 2 or 3 medium/hard targets, and then advance with the Cutthroats and shoot them in the rear.

    I would also recommend that you deploy the Cutthroats on the opposite flank. There is a beautiful forest about halfway up the board. That is what you are always looking for with your cutthroats. You position them ~5 inches from the edge of the forest. On your turn you advance forward and get some work done, then reposition them back out of LOS at the end of their activation. It makes them very hard to remove, but they can still get a lot of work done.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrwood View Post
    As someone mentioned, Croe is not an officer, so if he dies, you get to replace him. Turns out, he was in disguise the whole time!
    That is...strange and counterintuitive. But good to know! I guess that also explains why they were missing the normal promotion option in vassal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrwood View Post
    As a second point, about your use of the cutthroats, you almost never want to charge or shoot someone in the front with them. If the stormlances were a huge problem for you, pop Scaverous feet, and TK each of them forward, and turn them around. At that point you get your extra dice on to hit and damage. Don't ever use your Cutthroats if you don't have rear shots/attacks. Croes only work well on TK'ed targets.
    Yep...this would have been a much better use of my feat. Then once the Storm Lances are taken care of, I would have a flanking unit to smash against Stryker's left side.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

  17. #17
    Destroyer of Worlds malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    That is...strange and counterintuitive. But good to know! I guess that also explains why they were missing the normal promotion option in vassal.
    It's only counter-intuitive before you realize that Croe is paranoid and crafty - he's secretly paid each member of the unit to hold onto his special gear and pretend to be him when the next superior dies. He's (probably) not even on the field, making him the only character in the game that could be expected in-universe to be on both sides of the field at the same time (much to the confusion of both commanders).
    I guess that means Croe has franchised his personality. Does that make him the Trump of Western Immoren?
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  18. #18
    Conqueror Mekame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combat Wombat the Second View Post
    How did Rowdy counter charge if the Withershadow didn't move?
    Oh, that? We actually discussed/looked up that one since I wasn't totally sure if that worked either. But he was just that close, and best we could find it counted as a movement of 0? Normally I would have considered it not an optimal use of a pow 21 attack but given the amount of hijacking he was doing I wanted rowdy far, far away from my warcaster during his turn.

    And ouch. That lance thing is evil, but I kinda like it in concept.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekame View Post
    Oh, that? We actually discussed/looked up that one since I wasn't totally sure if that worked either. But he was just that close, and best we could find it counted as a movement of 0? Normally I would have considered it not an optimal use of a pow 21 attack but given the amount of hijacking he was doing I wanted rowdy far, far away from my warcaster during his turn.

    And ouch. That lance thing is evil, but I kinda like it in concept.
    The way I understand it works like this. If you declare "I am forfeiting movement" then you end your movement but not advancing, so countercharge doesn't trigger (movement ends, but since you didn't advance it doesn't trigger). If you don't explicitly forfeit movement then you advanced 0" and countercharge triggers.

  20. #20
    Destroyer of Worlds SlenderBurrito's Avatar
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    However if you forfeit movement you cannot turn. Turning counts as an Advance of 0" and can then proc Counter-Charge.
    Useful when dealing with shadow bound warjacks.
    If I play Cephalyx, I'm still HALF a Cryx player, right?
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  21. #21
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    Actually, contrary to MK2, advancing 0 doesn't count as advancing anymore, same as forfeiting movement. Turning is still an advance though.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamingdevil View Post
    Actually, contrary to MK2, advancing 0 doesn't count as advancing anymore, same as forfeiting movement. Turning is still an advance though.
    These are the little reasons that I need to thoroughly read that book again.
    "Nemo is like the Oprah of Lightning. 'You get some lighting. And you get some lighting. Everyone gets a lightning bolt!"

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