Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default Suggestions? Irusk2 and Sorscha1 75pt steamroller lists

    Ok ok, so I've got a tournament coming up, and I wanted to try something a bit silly, which was to get two almost identical lists with different casters, that would hopefully run differently enough to make a pair.

    The first list is my old Chainsaw, but I've got the problem of the (deserved) Behemoth nerf: it's a point over now, and it's driving me a bit nuts on where I can find it. The list is (or was):

    pSorscha's Flying Chainsaw
    Sorscha1 -29
    --Behemoth 24 (boo)
    --Jugger 12
    --Sylys 4

    2 x Doomies 26
    2 x Elims 10
    Alexia1 10
    Ternion 7

    Eiryss1 7
    Saxon 4

    I bloody love this list, and drop it into pretty much anything, including stuff you would probably think was idiotic. I lose, when I lose, because I got outplayed. That's as good as it gets at my level of play (i.e. probably better than average, but not aspiring to the top table). Long story short, it's a bit like an old-skool B2 Mad Dogs from mk2, but with defensive tech and a bit of recursion.

    Some battle reports over here.

    But now... where in holy hell do I save the point?

    The most useless points are the Ternion - in that they're bloody great putting clouds on Elims and making Sorscha invincible, but if there's one element that does nothing more than any other, it's them.

    But what the hell do I spend 6 points on? 6 points sucks.

    I'd be tempted to get two min units of Mechanics just to add to the horde of soon-to-be-Risen... I mean, brave children of the Empire, but I don't have enough of them. I could get a max unit, but then I'd feel like an idjit (2 points for 2 mechanics? Pfff). I could also go min + Tinker, but I don't have a Tinker, either.

    I could get a Bokur...?

    I could KEEP the Ternion and drop the Jugger - now that the Behemoth costs 25, Sorscha can actually run one-jack. That'd free up 8 points, but I'd have to spend ALL of them to keep to the -4 requirement, and what the hell costs 8 points? Plus, I'd really miss the ARM cracking of the Jugger, which gives a good reserve-punch (or at least something to bait stuff into Behemoth range).

    Anyway, what I'm tempted to do is this:

    Sorscha1 -29
    --Behemoth 25
    --Destroyer 14
    --Sylys 4

    2 x Doomies 26
    2 x Elims 10
    Alexia1 10

    Gorman 4
    Eiryss1 7
    Saxon 4

    I... side-graded the Jugger to a Destroyer, and preserved a wee bit of cloudage in Gorman, who also helps a bit with the ARM cracking for warjacks (and Sorscha is my go-to vs Warmachine stuff). He can also help with my patented "shake saturation / desperation" move (feat, Tempest, and now Blind: shake three effects, suckahs). More shooty, too, for the feat turn. But god help me: a Destroyer. Never thought I'd see the day.

    What do you think? Other options?


    ---------------
    The other list is pretty much the SAME list, but with Erusk. So it could be:
    Erusk's Slab of Maniacs
    Irusk2 -27
    --Behemoth 25
    --Jugger 12
    --Sylys 4

    2 x Doomies 26
    2 x Elims 10
    Alexia1 10

    Gorman 4
    Eiryss1 7
    Saxon 4

    ...so the Jugger put back in to save the 2 missing WJ points...

    As hilarious at that'd be, I don't think he gets full value from those solos(?) and I want him a bit punchier, so I'm thinking maybe:

    Irusk2 -27
    --Behemoth 25
    --Destroyer 14
    --Sylys 4

    2 x Doomies 26
    2 x Elims 10
    Alexia1 10
    minKayazy + Boss 13

    ...which gives a bit more of a melee screen for the Doom slab, a good target for Battle Lust, and occasionally a good target for FFE (not really)... And it's sort of a pain in the arse for shooty lists, since apart from Risen it's mostly in cover or stealthy. Buuuuut I sort of want Valachev on the Risen if I can...? And I still don't like the Destroyer much. So I could run one-jack and get something like:

    Irusk2 -27
    --Behemoth 25
    --Sylys 4

    2 x Doomies 26
    2 x Elims 10
    Alexia1 10
    --Valachev 4
    minKayazy + Boss 13
    Field Gun 4

    Gorman or Marksman or Saxon or something? 4
    (Probably Gorman, since a cloud on one side of the slab will block LOS to Erusk a fair bit).

    Bleh. I dunno. Thoughts?
    Last edited by SmellyTerror; 01-03-2017 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default

    Erusk's Slab of Maniacs
    Irusk2 -27
    --Behemoth 25
    --Sylys 4

    2 x Doomies 26
    2 x Elims 10
    Alexia1 10
    Minsassins 9
    --Boss 4


    Gorman 4
    Marksman 4
    Saxon 4

    I've come down to either going with the first Erusk list (i.e. almost identical to S1's, because that'd be funny), or the one here (because he really struggles to feed a second jack, and I just like Assassins: 5 dice on the (extraordinarily rare) rear charge with Fury is hilarious, while the (far more realistic) walk into melee in the rear arc = 4 dice is sweet too). I've tried to be "good" and pretty much directly replaced E1 with the Marksman, which is as close as I can get to her functionality for 4 points, and will be better for the ranged-denial game than the Field Gun (i.e. I'm mostly stealth or in cover). He's a bit of a beast with FFE, too. I mean, with FFE he's doing only 2 damage less on the direct fire than the Destroyer, is much more likely to hit, and gets to pick the column.

    I was going to play out-of-formation shenannigans with Alexia thanks to Valachev, but meh, I can rarely be bothered to plan a turn ahead with her positioning.

  3. #3
    Annihilator The Armchair Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Wellesley, MA
    Posts
    906

    Default

    Smelly,

    I love where you're going with this. Bite the bullet on the Sorscha 1 list and put in the Destroyer for 14 points. Suck it up. We've had this debate. It's good now. You kinda won this debate when we were talking about a Juggernaut plus 4 point shoots solo. At 14 points, you should add it to the Sorscha list.

    For Irusk 2, I think you need to ask the question - when the heck do I want to play this bad boy?

    In thinking about that, I came up with this...

    Supreme Kommandant Irusk - WJ: +27
    - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
    - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)

    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 4
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20

    Irusk doesn't want to sink a crap of points into jacks, but I religiously hate playing down points. So I put in a Marauder to compliment Big B. Irusk has some focus to give, but not a lot. And I regret it when I bring his stack down too far. The Marauder is awesome bait, absolutely shreds huge bases now, and is a knockdown king. Move him up, knock a beast into their caster, and POP POP Behemoth shots.

    I find Irusk 2 struggles some with opponents that have sprays. And, your Sorscha 2 list may struggle with a a high ARM opponent who can get the drop on your glass cannons.

    Also, Irusk doesn't want to take non faction infantry. You know that. Valachev is a heavy tax on your Alexia list so just say no. Redeploy the points or suck it up and put in Valachev for faction bonuses and movement shenanigans.

    I put in Uhlans for a MOFO fury unit. They reliably get the alpha and they are easy to keep in your cover bubble, so they will hit first and hit hard. Use them to take out things like sentry stones or remove a particularly troublesome beast or jack early on before you feat.

    Removing Alexia and the solos also let me fit the Ternion back in so you can put in the clouds and ranged sprays.

    That's my 2 cents.

    Scott

  4. #4
    Destroyer of Worlds tutenkharnage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Crawling through the Undercity with the BRI
    Posts
    4,956

    Default

    Could you flip the Juggernaut for a Marauder in your Sorscha1 list? That would leave you 1 point under, so you could keep the Ternion, or exchange the Ternion for 8 points of stuff, or give yourself the perfect reason to buy a Tinker.

  5. #5
    Conqueror
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    466

    Default

    What about keeping your 1st Sorscha list as is, minus the Ternions and throw in Hutchuck? I've been dying to use him but never have the room!

  6. #6
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default

    Well ****. Everyone is making a heap of sense.

    Ok, the fly in the ointment is that, although I'm totally sold on the Marauder and (to a degree) Hutchuck, I don't have either of 'em. I don't have Uhlans either. So I suck at taking list advice. I would absolutely sub in a Marauder if I had one (but am being obstinate and only using my own models for this). Though the more I think about the Destroyer with S1, the more I like it...

    I'd be sad to lose Alexia1, because hey, I'm trying to do a silly thing here and make two very similar lists! But... yeah. I see your point. Valachev doesn't quite work with her, anyway, because they're not living (so no tough) and she provides Spell Ward while she's in formation (so no Battle Lust, unless you do weird stuff to get her out of formation a turn before).

    (Lots of frowning happened here)

    Christ, I really need to get a Maurader, don't I?


    Supreme Kommandant Irusk - WJ: +27
    - Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
    - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)

    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 4
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
    How the **** did you fit all of that into the list?! It doesn't make any sense. I've added it up three times, and it's 75 points. How come your 75 points gets so much more stuff than mine? This is clearly bull****.

    ---
    More thinking required. What follows is off-the-cuff idiocy. Reading it will make you stupider.

    Ok. Ok. So I don't have Uhlans or a Marauder, and unless I want to go Full Destroyer, that frees up 28 points. Put the Gun to one side for a mo, and that's 32.

    The Ternion (yeah, I do need the Ternion) wants more Cloud targets (the Elims are great, but sometimes they're busy stabbing). And I want a decent Battle Lust target, so I'm going to put the minsassins back in (13 points). Kinda wish I had a max unit, but meh. 19 points left. That's exactly enough for a pretty silly full unit of vanilla Pike, complete with tasty Relentless to take some of the heat off my feat. If they can stand up to the shooting they can front-line it, but if the stealth-and-cover slab will do better, the pike can be the second wave or flankers.

    The downside is almost no shooting, not even spot removal, and bugger all straight up utility... But holy leaping crap that's a lot of tough bodies to chew through. Right? Come up the board in cover (Doomies); stealthy (Kayazy); or ARM18 (Pike). Then CHARGE and start stabbing stuff. It's all-in, right? But it's not TOO stupid, because Erusk adds utility all over the place.

    This has 34 solid melee threats, the new Behemoth, and a Ternion. The old Mad Dogs in mk2 had - what? - ~40-50 doods? But they didn't have blast immunity and no-knockdown tough and stealth and cover and all that good stuff. Could this work?

    Is it really stupid?

    Supreme Kommandant Irusk - WJ: +27
    - Behemoth - PC: 25

    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Kayazy Asassins - Leader and 5 Grunts: 9
    --Underboss: 4
    Iron Fang Pike - Leader and 9 grunts: 15
    --Iron Fang Pike Officer and Standard: 4

    The biggest downside is that my pikes are all bendy and look like arse. And also, I'm not sure if I can claim this is the super-clever same-list/two-casters concept.
    Last edited by SmellyTerror; 01-04-2017 at 09:30 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    I really like the idea behind this and my second unit of doomies should be here in a couple of days.

    Just threw something together that's pretty similar
    Irusk2
    *here's where I'm torn*
    (Behemo *or* 2x destroyers)
    Doomies
    Doomies
    IFP+UA
    IFP+UA
    Kayazy elims
    Kayazy elims

    Cycle FFE on the destroyers to make them a behemo phased across two bodies. It's expencive focus wise so what's "better"? Two destroyers worth of boxes with amputate axes or one Big B punching stuff in half?

    I suppose I could run B and drop a unit of elims for sylys and a tinker? That way I get the two powerful aoe's without having to spend any of irusks focus?
    Last edited by TitanTrueblood; 01-05-2017 at 06:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default

    Well cycling FFE costs 4 focus, while getting the same level of firepower out of Behemoth costs 1, which sort of costs Erusk 15 wounds under the right circumstances.

    In fact, I think FFE on a Destroyer barely worthwhile unless you've got absolutely nothing else to do with the spell, since the 1 focus you spend just on upkeep could have been used to boost the damage on either the direct damage or the most important blast hit anyway. The only thing you get from FFE is all the blast damage boosted. In other words, with 2 Destroyers, I reckon I'd just give one FFE, and expect the other to be happy with a bare-naked point of focus, if I can spare it.

    So this isn't a Destroyer hating thing, it's a hot-swapping FFE thing, which I think is almost never worth it.

    ...double Destroyers are, I think, totally legit. You do lose a touch of blast damage and it costs one more focus, but that's a lot more survivability. Hmmm...

    I think the major downside is that you won't get to murder things with a gigantic rocket fist, which is objectively the best possible weapon. Still though, murdering with axes is fun, too.

    I do like Sylys on Erusk. +1 focus points, better Airbursts, and even the extra bit of range on Battle Lust are all good. I really got to do some more frowny thinking.

  9. #9
    Annihilator The Armchair Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Wellesley, MA
    Posts
    906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyTerror View Post
    I do like Sylys on Erusk. +1 focus points, better Airbursts, and even the extra bit of range on Battle Lust are all good. I really got to do some more frowny thinking.
    No, you need to buy a Marauder. And Uhlans.

  10. #10
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default

    Yes, yes I do. But that requires money and/or criminality. Sadly, all my LGS owners are nice. If only there was a bastard I could steal from without guilt.

  11. #11
    Destroyer of Worlds HRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dartmouth, NS, Canada
    Posts
    3,381

    Default

    Just as an aside, when someone asks "What costs eight points?" the answer is Widowmakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod_GoLu View Post
    We always were the good guys. But sometimes being good requires being good with an axe.

  12. #12

    Default

    So I dropped one of the IFP units to pick the The second elims back up and filled the remainder of the points with widowmakers and a ternion. A few less bodies but WAY more utility.

  13. #13

    Default

    With widowmakers and Ternion the list sits at 74. If I drop the Ternion I've got 8 points to play with. So what's better than three lesser greylords? Two koldun lords(a really big no ranged area)? Two man hunters? One of each? Marksman and one of them? Or is it smarter to play a point down with the wizards?

  14. #14
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default

    The main event for the Ternion, IMO, is the clouds. Put the caster in a dopey place, or NEED to? Cloud up two Eliminators, run them into position, and bam, cloud wall and melee screen in one. Not invincible by any means, but it'll tend to soak a lot of what would otherwise kill your caster.

  15. #15
    Conqueror
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    466

    Default

    What about this for your Sorscha list?

    War Room Army

    Khador - pSorscha

    Theme: No Theme Selected
    75 / 75 Army 0 / 40 Specialist

    Kommander Sorscha - WJ: +29
    - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
    - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25)
    - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)

    Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter - PC: 6

    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
    Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
    Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9

  16. #16
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Darkest Canberra
    Posts
    4,353

    Default

    Yeah, that is a tempting list, but I don't got no Ruin (don't yell at me!) or Hutchuck.

    I kinda feel like, if you want to go up against Haley2 ever, you want either Ruin or Orin, and preferably both. But my plan at the moment for H2 is "lose with dignity", so I'm good there.

    The mk2 version absolutely did have the Bears, but I'm not fans of them in mk3. I dunno. If they had steady? Yes. But as is they're just the wrong side of too-vulnerable.

    And the Risen are perhaps more important than they look. Doomies and Risen have Spell Ward. Elims have stealth. Ternion is usually hiding, and Sorscha and Sylys are behind clouds. It gives plenty of spelly casters absolute fits.

  17. #17
    Conqueror
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    466

    Default

    The Great Bears were just for 9 pts. What about swap out Ruin, and the Bears, add in Beast09 and for 5pts left over get Orin. Then just proxy Hutchuck for now ��

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •