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  1. #41
    Destroyer of Worlds Big Fat Troll's Avatar
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    At one point I floated the idea of changing Spirit Bond so that instead of leeching 1 Fury from each dead beast you would keep the animus of one dead beast. If you had multiple dead beasts you would have to choose which one to place in Spirit Bond for the turn during your maintenance phase. Maybe even make it so that has to be a dead beast and not RFP, but that's easy for us to say as Snacking and the Band of Heroes "takedown" are two readily available ways to RFP enemy beasts.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    Adding new warlocks with damage buffs or ARM debuffs takes nothing away from Ragnor, since he already isn't the only troll warcaster with a damage fixer, just the only one with a STR buff. There are plenty of spells that could be used by troll warlocks without stepping on Ragnor's toes because there is so much more to the design of a warlock than one single spell.

    Circle does have access to more STR buffs than primal. Stone Skin on Baldur1 for example. And no, I don't think it'd be entirely unreasonable for them to get a second STR buffing animus somewhere along the line.
    If everyone buffs strength, your beasts will be made inheritently weaker to balance the faction. You are by no means pillow fisted.

    I was asking specifically in regards to non warlock examples. Circle have a single animus that works on half our beasts and forces them to frenzy.

    We have baldur1, kaya2, tanith with dark shroud. Arguably una with hand of fate.

    I'm all for you receiving another str animus or dmg boosting animus. What I'm very specifically trying to point out is that giving you something akin to cephalyx agitators or beast handlers is out of the realms of realism as it will increase the power of all your beasts significantly.

    To clarify;

    All for you getting cheaper access to damaging buff animii.

    All against trolls being able to easily stack damage buffs on top of rage.

    Out of curiosity would a 7 point light with primal make you feel better?

  3. #43

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    If it was the night Troll, people might suddenly use it ^^ Although I doubt that Trolls really want primal on their beasts (Rök has primal as animus and nobody uses it). Rage is much better. What I read in Circle so far is that people use the Gorax as a Primal bot only, when they really cannot afford the Feral Warpwolf, so in most cases they take the wolf instead. So the Trolls would stick with the Mauler in many cases too. But I'd be nice to have the cheaper option, if it is as back-up for the Mauler (or one light that helps you by not having your caster cast the animus).
    A bit offtopic: I never understood why it's fine for Circle to primal everything (I know you'd say because they have no choice). Cheap lights are one thing to "throw away", but the Wolves are quite expensive. Also: The Warpwolves can all warp strengh, so the stalker hits at P+S 18 without any support! This is somewhat comparable to Mulg and I think the reason why people like to play both a lot. The Weapon makes the difference (also for Warjacks). In the end both Circle and Trolls come down to: P+S ~15-16+ Animus Buff + possible other Buff (Taniths Dark Shroud, Ragnors Buff, Maybe Stone Strengh if in range). Trolls don't Frenzy but Circle gets the Alpha (As far as I understand things at this point).
    Back to topic: I think Primal on the Night Troll would be amazing. A cheap Heavy option liek the Satyr would be great (also with both you could build a more user freindly Battle Boxes for Trolls . And I think a non-character Warbeast with a reach weapon would be amazing. Its whishlisting, but right now people play around this anyways by using Mulg and Mauler(s) (and Krielstone for the record = 40+ points in the same stuff almost always); so it would mainly be beneficial for more divergence in list building.
    Last edited by Snoozer; 01-11-2017 at 01:49 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozer View Post
    If it was the night Troll, people might suddenly use it ^^ Although I doubt that Trolls really want primal on their beasts (Rök has primal as animus and nobody uses it). Rage is much better. What I read in Circle so far is that people use the Gorax as a Primal bot only, when they really cannot afford the Feral Warpwolf, so in most cases they take the wolf instead. So the Trolls would stick with the Mauler in many cases too. But I'd be nice to have the cheaper option, if it is as back-up for the Mauler (or one light that helps you by not having your caster cast the animus).
    A bit offtopic: I never understood why it's fine for Circle to primal everything (I know you'd say because they have no choice). Cheap lights are one thing to "throw away", but the Wolves are quite expensive. Also: The Warpwolves can all warp strengh, so the stalker hits at P+S 18 without any support! This is somewhat comparable to Mulg and I think the reason why people like to play both a lot. The Weapon makes the difference (also for Warjacks). In the end both Circle and Trolls come down to: P+S ~15-16+ Animus Buff + possible other Buff (Taniths Dark Shroud, Ragnors Buff, Maybe Stone Strengh if in range). Trolls don't Frenzy but Circle gets the Alpha (As far as I understand things at this point).
    Back to topic: I think Primal on the Night Troll would be amazing. A cheap Heavy option liek the Satyr would be great (also with both you could build a more user freindly Battle Boxes for Trolls . And I think a non-character Warbeast with a reach weapon would be amazing. Its whishlisting, but right now people play around this anyways by using Mulg and Mauler(s) (and Krielstone for the record = 40+ points in the same stuff almost always); so it would mainly be beneficial for more divergence in list building.
    The issue with the feral isn't not affording it, it's the same issue you guys have with the mauler haha. He's 18 points, and will die as soon as he's committed ( Warp STR makes him arm 16 ) and with him goes your primal. So in a lot of lists you either have to protect him like some holy grail, or hold him to the last second, much like OP was describing.

    I don't think you guys should be forced to use primal. I know I toyed with the idea but it's not a great attrition type thing. I honestly just think you could have irrelevant light beast A have an animus that gives target warbeast within 6" +2 to damage rolls for 2 fury.

  5. #45
    Destroyer of Worlds Stormpuppy_Infantry's Avatar
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    Only if Fire and Slag keeps their buff, or at least only change their buff to be only targets warbeasts then it will be more flexible. Then although you need to take either a Dire Troll Mauler, a Fire Troll or a Slag Troll, but still it is better than there is no choice other than take a Dire Troll Mauler in 99% of the lists. A 15 point model is too costy to be a mandatory choice.

    Trollbloods melee warbeasts are designed to be buffed their melee damage by an animus. But it means that the others are simply discarded, and currently Trollbloods have Rage and Primal - so if you don't want to drop a heavy, Rage is effectively the only option.


    Well, a Dire Troll Mauler can have Rush - engage the enemy then pop Rage. It can still hit hard as a beatstick heavy warjack. But the others needs a buff to be punching the enemy in melee.

    Anyway it is weird. The reliance of the infantry seems dropped, but beasts are still short on the support too. Then what to do?
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  6. #46

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    I'm very new and running into the problem of "I want to keep my Mauler alive to have Rage available, but I want to get him into combat to get work done". Its super frustrating to play a 35pt game and if my Mauler dies, my other beasts don't have the hitting power to take out the rest of my opponents beasts with any efficiency.

    I'm not really sure what the solution is, but its not a fun decision to make when facing opponents with multiple unbuffed heavies that hit harder than all my beasts do.

  7. #47
    Destroyer of Worlds Stormpuppy_Infantry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyroid View Post
    I'm very new and running into the problem of "I want to keep my Mauler alive to have Rage available, but I want to get him into combat to get work done". Its super frustrating to play a 35pt game and if my Mauler dies, my other beasts don't have the hitting power to take out the rest of my opponents beasts with any efficiency.

    I'm not really sure what the solution is, but its not a fun decision to make when facing opponents with multiple unbuffed heavies that hit harder than all my beasts do.
    That's also one of the bad side effect as well. Eventually you have the situation that must throw a Mauler, but it is also a buffer as well.
    You create your own destiny, and your lot in life is not fixed at birth.
    Truth is truth, regardless how bitter it is.
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    If everyone buffs strength, your beasts will be made inheritently weaker to balance the faction. You are by no means pillow fisted.

    I was asking specifically in regards to non warlock examples. Circle have a single animus that works on half our beasts and forces them to frenzy.

    We have baldur1, kaya2, tanith with dark shroud. Arguably una with hand of fate.

    I'm all for you receiving another str animus or dmg boosting animus. What I'm very specifically trying to point out is that giving you something akin to cephalyx agitators or beast handlers is out of the realms of realism as it will increase the power of all your beasts significantly.

    To clarify;

    All for you getting cheaper access to damaging buff animii.

    All against trolls being able to easily stack damage buffs on top of rage.

    Out of curiosity would a 7 point light with primal make you feel better?
    Given that Ragnor, Grissel and Grimm's effective +2 STR stacks with rage, and they're only good (not stellar) casters, and Rask's +3 on top of Rage, I think I'll continue to disagree that more troll warlocks with damage buffing options is unreasonably powerful.

    However, I do now see your point about the issue that Rage + Upkeep + Other buff could cause. So I'll withdraw that idea until I can look at it further.

  9. #49
    Destroyer of Worlds Tarkand's Avatar
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    It really feels like they should have made 'Mulg' into a non-character warbeast.

    Call it an 'elder dire troll', drop his mat to 6 make his club non-magical and change his animus to something a bit less flavorful - heck, or let it stay the same, nobody really use it anyway and maybe drop him 2pts. If you're worried that this may result in armies that are too tanky (Arm21 - 34 box everywhere!) bring his defensive stats back in line with the other dires (12/18 30).

    Great opportunity to give us a new plastic sculpt too!

    He's no longer the monster he used to be, which make the character tag a bit odd, but he's still pretty well costed for his output. Having access to a pow18 model with reach and relentless charge and being able to field several of those (not unlike what circle does with their wolves) would go a long way toward making the rush/rage eternal dilema less of one.

    And you can than make 'the real mulg' into a 24pts monstrocity.

    The problem tho, is that such a model would now be way to close to what Mulg is currently is and would most likely make the old man redundant. So it's not going to happen.
    Last edited by Tarkand; 01-11-2017 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #50

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    I think trolls do suffer a little from lack of reach heavies, but I wouldn't call it a major issue.

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