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  1. #1
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    Default Haven't played in 4 years. What's new?

    Hey folks.

    I haven't played Warmahordes in almost 4 years since it died off at my old club. However, it is alive and well and the new club where I'm moving to, so I was hoping to be able to pick it up again. As I haven't played since just before the release of the first Colossals/Gargantuans I was just wondering what changes to gameplay there have been since Mk II and how Cygnar stands in the current meta?

    Thanks in advance!
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
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  2. #2
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    Cygnar is decently strong currently. In fact, it was recently toned down a bit, but the errata was rather tame.

    There is some internal balances problems, which in less cryptic term mean quite a bit of cygnar warcasters are subpar compared to Haley. Similarly, there is some useless references here and there. Depending on to who you ask, it will be "everything but stormlance" or some specific units like stormguards.

    The game is much more about warjacks. Getting an army entirely made of heavy jack is viable, if likely not optimal, and more than half your army in giant metal robot work very well. The colossal you just missed aren't super important, but the Stormwall is still a very good 'jack.

    There is some general MkIII change : premeasuring is allowed all the time, there is no more command checks, the force field changed, but overall it's not a big deal.

  3. #3
    Destroyer of Worlds Stormpuppy_Infantry's Avatar
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    http://privateerpressforums.com/show...n-like-3-years

    The posts in the thread will be useful too.
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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies. Glad to hear its a bit more 'jack centred, it always seemed strange to me that it used to be so infantry centred. What would you say an average number of jacks would be on the table these days (obviously this will change based on faction/caster)?

    And thanks for the link to that thread, a lot of good stuff in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  5. #5

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    I feel like 2-4 Heavy JACKs is the "normal" range at the moment. Heavy Beasts a bit less due to the pricetag in Points.
    Our local Khadorans beat the 4 quite regularly, though.
    (Roughly speaking you get two of the Not-Elite-Jacks for the free WJ-points already!)
    Last edited by NoOneII; 01-09-2017 at 04:34 AM.

  6. #6
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    Cool, that's about what I would have guessed. How is the starter box? I see there's a new caster in it, and the Charger has been swapped for the Firefly. Is it a good place to start, or would I be better building something more similar to the old Stryker1 box?
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  7. #7

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    I am about to start the swan as second faction, so I am by no means an expert Swanologist.

    If you need a MK3 Rulebook the Maddox-Box is a veryveryvery good deal. (It contains the small rulebook).

    Some complaints are out there about the quality of the coloured plastic minis in the MK3 Battlegroups. Deducting from my Everblight Box and a friends Cryxbox i'd say: They're maybe a bit more hasslesome when it comes to shaving of moldlines, but in the end they are absolutely fine for Tabletop use. (Some voices argue there is no difference between normal and coloured plastic)
    If you're aiming for painting competitions and showcase-standard painting you might want to consider avoiding the MK3 Battleboxes.

    If you don't need the rulebook you could try to dig up one of the MK2 Stryker Battleboxes. I feel the charger is the better "generalist" Jack when compared to to the Firefly. And the minis are made of the regular plastic.
    Depends on which caster you want to have first, considering that until further notice Maddox is only available in the Starter Box.

    Be warned though, in MK3 the Stryker Box has 1 Point, not 0, so it is not battlebox-size-tournament-legal.

    I personally will go for the Stryker-Box and wait for Maddox to be sold as a separate model, as I already have the small AND the big rulebooks and prefer the perceived better quality in the minis. (And like the Stryker-Rowdy duo a lot, fluffwise)

  8. #8
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    Painting for competitions is not an issue. I can barely do tabletop standard competently, not looking to win any competitions any time soon! :P

    The rulebook would be good, but you can download the basics free, so not too worried about it. I noticed that element still have a couple of the Stryker1 boxes, and that's what my old list was based around. I was wondering if I'd be better picking it up as I'm more familiar with the models and their rules, and I always liked the Charger. Reckon it'd be doubly good now with the free focus generation rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  9. #9

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    Either way, I recommend magnetizing the IronClad sooner or later you'll buy another Kit that includes Ironclad, Cyclone, and Defender weapons and you might want to field the latter together sometime.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, magnetizing is definitely the way forwards. Get a bit of utility out of the kit and save money at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  11. #11
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    Maddox (the new caster) is quite good caster, and very good for beginners. It's a mix of the classic upkeep spells like Snipe and AS (sort of), but with a more agressive stile than Stryker1. She is also a Stormknight, and synergizes well with Stormknights and Stormclads.

    As other said, the edition is more focussed on jacks than mk2, and we have a bit wider selection of viable casters than the old Haley2/Caine2 mk2 pair.

    In particular: Sloan, Darius and Nemo3 are a lot better in this edition than they were in the old one. Siege instead lost some shine (while still playable, he is no more close to the top).

    Stormlances and Trenchers are our staple units, very very good, while Gun Mages and Black 13 were nerfed quite hard in the edition change.

    Gallant is a lot better, as it is Firefly (so don't worry if you buy the new BB, you will use the Firefly in a lot of lists).

    In general, Mercnar is dead, we now mostly use Friendly Faction models, with just a few merc solos showing up here and there.


    Other than this, if you tell us what kind of lists you liked to play in the past, we could suggest the good equivalents in mk3.
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  12. #12
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    Thanks for that. I never got far beyond the starter set. I did run the Stryker1 battlebox with the B13, and sometimes proxied the Ironclad as Ol' Rowdy. I also used it with Haley1 and the Lancer as Thorn. Sadly the game died out before we got any further. I got on well with Stryker1, wasn't as good with Haley1, but I had far less experience with her.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  13. #13
    Destroyer of Worlds The Aegis's Avatar
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    Stryker1 is doing quite well lately. Centurions and Colossals in particular synergize very well with him (for ARM stacking mostly).

    For the same reason, Stryker1 likes Journeyman warcaster a lot (So you have two Arcane Shields going around).

    Gun Mage Capitain Adept also got very good in this edition.


    In general, if you want to stay on budget, I would suggest you the new Battlebox (to have a new caster and some more jacks to proxy things. You could also convert a bit the lancer to make an "official" thorn).

    Then I would buy a Centurion/Avenger/Ironclad kit to magnetize, and a few solos like GMCA, JR and Squire or Sylis.

    If you want, you could also buy the Gallant upgrade kit for cheap for the extra Ironclad, getting your main beatstick.
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  14. #14
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    I don't still have my old models, it'll be a completely fresh start for me. Would buying the current battlebox, a Charger and Stryker1 be a viable start? Would give a choice of casters and play styles to try.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  15. #15
    Destroyer of Worlds The Aegis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    I don't still have my old models, it'll be a completely fresh start for me. Would buying the current battlebox, a Charger and Stryker1 be a viable start? Would give a choice of casters and play styles to try.
    If you start from zero, you can probably skip the Charger. It is a very good jack, but it's not particulary required from the beginning.

    Probably if I had to start from scratch an army including Stryker1 I would start with BB, Centurion/Avenger/Hammersmith kit, Journeyman Warcaster and an unit of Stormlances.
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  16. #16
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    Thanks for the advice. Is the squire still a good buy too?
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  17. #17

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    Yep, it is, generally. Which attachment (Sillyelf, Reinhold, Squire) you want often depends on your caster.
    Especially those casters which do something to "enemy models in their control area" profit a lot from the extended control range the Squire provides.
    In many games the 3 free focus will be sufficient to be used as "free upkeeps" or in crucial turns.
    And: It's a darn cute little heap of hardware.

  18. #18
    Destroyer of Worlds Stormpuppy_Infantry's Avatar
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    I don't think that Squire is good now, but it is totally depend on your caster choice.

    Sylys is the basic Attachment for now - he is the best Attachment model for the most casters, for he can upkeep a spell for free and have the same point with Reinholdt.
    Reinholdt is the Attachment for the warcasters with a good ranged weapon - Caine1/2 and Sloan, also possibly Brisbane and perhaps Stryker1/2.
    Squire is the Attachment only for Haley2 and Stryker2, for they have no upkeep spells at all. Sometimes Haley3 that throw away Tactical Supremacy also choose it. Else some Brisbane player use it to increase the range of his feat. The rest of them have no reason to take it. That's because Squire's point cost is 5 but Sylys is 4, and both Attachment's most important point is effective +1 focus point on the warcaster.
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  19. #19

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    The Squire also provides a "free upkeep", if only for three turns. Considering that in the first turn there naturally is nothing to upkeep, the squire is on par with Sillyelf in that regard till turn 4.
    Sure, also having a free upkeep in turn 5 doesn't hurt, but I think this is the least important point when deciding between the elf and the ball of love. (Still, the Elf brings other fancy stuff with him. Not meaning to boo him out here)

    Sturgis also profits a lot... well, I am being silly now.

    Seriously, I would not put off the trusty squire so easily. I guess in the end -as soon as the caster collection grows- one needs all three of the attachments. And maybe even the lovely Ms. Corbeau ontop.

  20. #20
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    So squire is a good buy, but maybe further down the line once I start expanding my stable of casters?
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  21. #21

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    I just realized I probably misread Stormpuppy, assuming he meant "nowadays in general" with "now". But possibly he meant "now, in Castiels situation". If the latter is true, I'd probably agree.

    If your question is specifically which is the right attachmen for stryker1: Probably not the Squire.
    Many like him with Reinhold (Two Disruptor-Shots!)
    But I can Imagine Sylys is also good (free Upkeep, better "spellslinging" and Range for spells. For the caster-knockdowning Earthquake, that is, not much Spellslinging to be had,otherwise.)

  22. #22
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    I said that Sylys is good for the most casters, because both Squire and Sylys provides effective +1 focus point but Sylys is cheaper. With the same benefit it is better to choose the cheaper option, isn't? But because Haley2 and Stryker3 have no upkeep spell so Squire is the only choice to give more focus for them.
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  23. #23

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    If you want to start with the new Battle Box, Striker 1 (the newer sculpt) and a Charger, look if its maybe as cheap to just buy the old and the new Battle Box. Having 2 Ironclads is surely not bad (Use/ upgrade to gallant/ sell etc.) and a second Lancer while not very useful could be build into thorn with the bits store from PP. If the second BB is not cheap enough then stick with the original plan. Also Gun Mage Captain Adept, Squire and JR are not only recommendet a lot, bit they are also all quite cheap (money wise), so if you have another Jack for JR (=Charger) I would also get them.

  24. #24
    Destroyer of Worlds The Aegis's Avatar
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    In general, one caster attachment is a priority buy. What exact attachment is up to you.

    Squire and Sylis are pretty quite similar, but the former costs one point more, while the latter requires you to always have an upkeep on to be worth it.

    If you plan to play Stryker1 and Maddox, yes, Sylis is probably the best choice, since they have lots of upkeeps and doesn't strictly need an enlargment of the CTRL area to be effective.

    Anyway, both can work fine with Squire also, if you don't like Sylis for whatever reason.

    Just pick one of the two soon, then the second one can wait.
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  25. #25
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    Ok, thank you! At what points level should I start looking to include units? Once I have the bb and caster attachment would I be best to pick up a unit, or would a journeyman and another jack be a better choice?
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  26. #26

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    It really depends on what you are trying to do. At that point because you are still filling out the basics, then go with what basics feel right to you. If you want a Junior and a light for it to drive, then go for that. If you want another big stompy heavy go for that. If you want infantry, grab some trenchers or storm lances, and go for that.

  27. #27
    Destroyer of Worlds The Aegis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrVeux View Post
    It really depends on what you are trying to do. At that point because you are still filling out the basics, then go with what basics feel right to you. If you want a Junior and a light for it to drive, then go for that. If you want another big stompy heavy go for that. If you want infantry, grab some trenchers or storm lances, and go for that.
    Pretty much this. Stormlances (that are what I suggest for the type of casters you will begin to play with) are a 12-20 points unit, so require a bit of investment. I would start to include them from 50 points games onward, but in the end depending on the caster and the playstyle you can start using them right away or go up to 75 points list with only Jacks and Solos inside (or even just 2 colossals).
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  28. #28
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    Cool, so I should base my expansion on the local meta and personal preference. Thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated!
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCollege on Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane
    This guy is the Mr. T of the Iron Kingdoms. Do not mess with him, or he will call you a fool, and briefly pity you before killing you with an exploding hammer.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormpuppy_Infantry View Post
    I don't think that Squire is good now, but it is totally depend on your caster choice.

    ...and both Attachment's most important point is effective +1 focus point on the warcaster.


    what? +2 control range, ability to reroll 1 spell every turn and +1 focus is something every warcaster enjoys, some more than others.


    To the OP, this is my recommended "starter" buy list:

    Stryker1&2
    Nemo3
    Haley2&3
    Squire
    Stormclad (1or2)
    Gallant/Ol' Rowdy
    Defender
    Storm Lances (1or2)
    Laddermore
    Versh
    Jr
    Firefly
    Charger
    Trenchers w/ UA
    Rangers

    Expand from there.

    my first expand models would be:

    GMCA
    Sniper
    Finn
    Last edited by Toymachine; 01-11-2017 at 06:24 AM.
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  30. #30
    Destroyer of Worlds Stormpuppy_Infantry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toymachine View Post
    what? +2 control range, ability to reroll 1 spell every turn and +1 focus is something every warcaster enjoys, some more than others.


    To the OP, this is my recommended "starter" buy list:

    Stryker1&2
    Nemo3
    Haley2&3
    Squire
    Stormclad (1or2)
    Gallant/Ol' Rowdy
    Defender
    Storm Lances (1or2)
    Laddermore
    Versh
    Jr
    Firefly
    Charger
    Trenchers w/ UA
    Rangers

    Expand from there.

    my first expand models would be:

    GMCA
    Sniper
    Finn
    Didn't you forgot that Sylys also give the accuracy bufr for spell, do you? Also Sylys lets the casters to upkeep one spell for free so unless your warcaster is Haley2 or Stryker2 he also gives effective one focus too. For now only Haley2, and possibly Brisbane ever care for the control range as well. So, the only advantage of Squire over Sylys is petty +2 control range that is not useful for the most casters, but is there any advantage to pay for 1 more point cost to pick Squire? Of course there are some exceptions, but I am already aware of them and already note about that. If Squire costs 4 points the I will agreed that Squire is better, but for now Squire costs 5 points while Sylys is 4 points.
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  31. #31
    Annihilator Toymachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormpuppy_Infantry View Post
    Didn't you forgot that Sylys also give the accuracy bufr for spell, do you? Also Sylys lets the casters to upkeep one spell for free so unless your warcaster is Haley2 or Stryker2 he also gives effective one focus too. For now only Haley2, and possibly Brisbane ever care for the control range as well. So, the only advantage of Squire over Sylys is petty +2 control range that is not useful for the most casters, but is there any advantage to pay for 1 more point cost to pick Squire? Of course there are some exceptions, but I am already aware of them and already note about that. If Squire costs 4 points the I will agreed that Squire is better, but for now Squire costs 5 points while Sylys is 4 points.
    Paying 1 more point to allow your warjacks to receive focus at 14 inches away instead of 12 inches away, for example, is usually the correct choice. The feat is not the only factor you should be considering. I can see why you came to the conclusion you did. I would definitely broaden the scope of who you believe cares about control area, even for just the feat. Just off the top of my head Caine1, Maddox, Nemo1, Haley 1-3, Stryker 2&3 and Siege want a larger control area for feat or spell purposes.
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  32. #32
    Destroyer of Worlds Stormpuppy_Infantry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toymachine View Post
    Paying 1 more point to allow your warjacks to receive focus at 14 inches away instead of 12 inches away, for example, is usually the correct choice. The feat is not the only factor you should be considering. I can see why you came to the conclusion you did. I would definitely broaden the scope of who you believe cares about control area, even for just the feat. Just off the top of my head Caine1, Maddox, Nemo1, Haley 1-3, Stryker 2&3 and Siege want a larger control area for feat or spell purposes.
    Sit behind 12" of a heavy is usually not so harmful. Although more inches are better, but if it hampers you to bring a 4 point solo then it is not a good choice.

    And, most of those casters are doesn't care for the control range at all.

    Caine1: You need to remember that Spellstorm Pistol have RNG 12, not 14. You need to put Snipe on him too in order to do this, but do you really think that it is worth enough to discard Reinholdt and pay for one more point? Actually, even in MKII he is the only one Cygnar warcaster that prefer Sylys over Squire, despite both were shares the same point at that time.
    Maddox: Her feat affects friendly models, not enemy. Catching the friendly melee troops in her control range have much diffrence with catching the enemy models within the control range. Remember that models have the base - usually 30mm to 50mm, not only shown as a dot in the battlefield.
    Nemo1: Perhaps? Anyway he is one I was actually missed. But usually his target will be on the frontline so it will be not so difficult to catch them. Also he can increase the control range in a pinch.
    Stryker2/3: Same as Maddox, and Stryker2 doesn't care for it at all for his feat is pulse, not aura. Although he will be stick with Squire for he have no upkeeps at all(Rebuke is upkeep now, but I don't think that offensive upkeep will count).
    Haley1: Temporal Barrier matters, but removal of -2 SPD means that you have not much reason to strictly catch them so hard. You can fix the accuracy issue by Deadeye in the early turn.

    I am already said for Haley2~3 and Brisbane.

    Anyway, if you would end up a list that contains Sylys but have one free point then it is better to take Squire instead. But, only one point actually matters many times, and both of them serves similar purpose and performance, so it will be better to stick with the cheap one first.
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