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Thread: Jack theme

  1. #41
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehlamb3rt View Post
    Im guessing the upkeeps you start with in play are friendly upkeeps? It would be dumb if you can start the game with brand of heresy up
    Without looking at the actual wording (it's due to be delivered, hopefully, by the end of the week), I'd say that there's likely to be a 'Friendly' or 'Friendly Faction' clause in there somewhere
    It would be great to have Brand of Heresy on the enemy caster though.
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  2. #42
    Destroyer of Worlds blakeh1's Avatar
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    So this might be a dumb question, but how does this work

    For every 25 points of Battle Engines and Warjacks ..

    Is it every 25 point including warjack points or after warjack points?

    for example...Amon has 29 warjack points, I start by two Crusaders and a Dervish for 29 points. I have spent 0 of 75 points so far. Do I immediately get a free vassal or wracks just for filling his warjack points, or do I have to wait until I spend 25 more points in warjacks before I get the first freebie?

    i.e.
    Sum(Total Points spent on Warjacks ignoring casters WJ points) - ( Warcaster Warjack points ) / 25, round down to near whole number
    or
    Sum(Total Points spent on Warjacks ignoring casters WJ points) / 25, round down to near whole number
    Last edited by blakeh1; 01-11-2017 at 01:56 PM.
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  3. #43
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blakeh1 View Post
    So this might be a dumb question, but how does this work

    For every 25 points of Battle Engines and Warjacks ..

    Is it every 25 point including warjack points or after warjack points?

    for example...Amon has 29 warjack points, I start by two Crusaders and a Dervish for 29 points. I have spent 0 of 75 points so far. Do I immediately get a free vassal or wracks just for filling his warjack points, or do I have to wait until I spend 25 more points in warjacks before I get the first freebie?

    i.e.
    Sum(Total Points spent on Warjacks ignoring casters WJ points) - ( Warcaster Warjack points ) / 25, round down to near whole number
    or
    Sum(Total Points spent on Warjacks ignoring casters WJ points) / 25, round down to near whole number
    I can't help but feel that it's the worst option. Where the WJP don't count towards the total.
    Should I be wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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  4. #44
    Annihilator GDNerd's Avatar
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    Played Amon in tier (basically got a free Dervish and the Covenant plus the other goodies at the cost of downgrading Scourge of Heresy to a Templar) into Nemo3. Eventually won hard on attrition after "sacrificing" a dervish and a Vigilant to tie up his forces. Turns out a bunch of 'jacks who can't be targeted by nonmagical guns is REALLY good into a gunline with exactly 2 magical guns (Arlan and the objective).

    There is a lot of nice value in being able to Reposition 3" back out of Electro Leap / other bounce effects, as well as getting out of the way if you have a big cluster of jacks to unblock.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spideredd View Post
    I can't help but feel that it's the worst option. Where the WJP don't count towards the total.
    Should I be wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
    They do count.
    Ran it last night with Amon, the reposition is really really good...
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  6. #46
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajay29 View Post
    They do count.
    Yay, I'm Pleasantly Surprised, and sooner than I expected
    Ran it last night with Amon, the reposition is really really good...
    My game on Monday (Durst running Warjack Theme) won't know what hit him.
    Mwahahahahhahahahahhahahaha!!
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  7. #47
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    Under the Theme forces.. Solos get Reposition. Does that mean Warcasters get reposition?

  8. #48
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    A warcaster isn't a solo.

  9. #49
    Destroyer of Worlds doomedtorepeatit's Avatar
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    Warcasters aren't solos. They're warcasters. Different class of model.


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    Annihilator GDNerd's Avatar
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    Edit: Derp
    Last edited by GDNerd; 01-11-2017 at 03:52 PM.

  11. #51
    Destroyer of Worlds Juggernautie's Avatar
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    Thinking:

    Amon:
    Vigilant
    Devout
    Dervish x4
    Reckoner x2
    Guardian
    Covenant (free)
    Wrack x3 (free)
    Vassal (Free
    Vassal
    Choir Min x2

    Not sure I'm feeling it yet, but going to give it a try.
    Learned a new word, Catastrophizing.

  12. #52
    Destroyer of Worlds Grey Templar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spideredd View Post
    Without looking at the actual wording (it's due to be delivered, hopefully, by the end of the week), I'd say that there's likely to be a 'Friendly' or 'Friendly Faction' clause in there somewhere
    It would be great to have Brand of Heresy on the enemy caster though.
    Sadly it says "Friendly model/units can begin the game affected..."

    If it did NOT say friendly, then you could totally start with Brand in play. IIRC Denegrah had a theme in Mk2 that allowed her to have her upkeeps in play, including on enemy models.
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  13. #53
    Destroyer of Worlds doomedtorepeatit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Templar View Post
    Sadly it says "Friendly model/units can begin the game affected..."

    If it did NOT say friendly, then you could totally start with Brand in play. IIRC Denegrah had a theme in Mk2 that allowed her to have her upkeeps in play, including on enemy models.
    And it was roundly detested as overpowered. Inasmuch as I would enjoy to see Brand automatically applied to an enemy model/unit, that would be gross and I'm glad it's not that way.


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  14. #54
    Conqueror Hrimfaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doomedtorepeatit View Post
    And it was roundly detested as overpowered. Inasmuch as I would enjoy to see Brand automatically applied to an enemy model/unit, that would be gross and I'm glad it's not that way.
    Eh, the issue with Body and Soul wasn't that an offensive upkeep was automatically applied, it was that said upkeep was Pursuit and it allowed Deneghra to move closer and lock you down with her Feat even further and sooner than normal. As such, I can't really think of Protectorate debuffs that would solidly screw someone over anywhere near to that extent, especially since PP basically burned that entire play concept to the ground in this edition which makes this academic question even more frivolous and irrelevant.

    Query: Does this Theme Force bring 2x Judicator back? Fairly certain you can't run it with Durst anymore (a pity, I rather enjoyed it) due to the lack of reliable sprays, but Severius 1, Kreoss 3, Feora 3, and possibly Kreoss 1 could likely pull it off.

  15. #55

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    What I’ve come up with

    Malekus
    -Eye of Truth
    -Reckoner
    -Vanquisher
    Vessel of Judgment x2
    Juviah Rhoven & Co.
    min Choir
    Mechaniks x3
    Vassal of Menoth x2 Free
    Wracks x3 Free
    Playing Like I've Got A Pair.
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  16. #56

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    Durant's a Journeyman Warcaster solo, does he get reposition?

  17. #57
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    Based solely on the summary - I haven't read the actual printed theme - yes. Yes he would.
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  18. #58

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    Toying with Tristian2 in ADR atm. The toolbox is endless but it's getting the right points which will be the problem.

    "Shoot things, then Manifest Destiny with feat and smash things"
    Are encountering shooting? Swap in Vigilant, consider devoiut and reclaimer
    Are encountering magic? Swap in Indictor and Devout
    Not much shooting worry about? Put in Indictor and reclaimer

    I'm wondering how effective reclaimer + future sight would be with Manifest Destiny up.. Also considering a revenger to drop off Chasten where necessary.

    Tristian2
    - Heirophant
    - Reckoner
    - Reckoner
    - Vanquisher
    - Vanquisher
    - Castigator

    Choir (max)
    Choir (min)
    Visgoth et al
    Vassal Mechanik x2
    Wrack x1

    Free doods
    Covenenant
    Vassal of Menoth x2

    Specialists (1pt left)
    Indictor
    Vigilant
    Devout
    Reclaimer
    Wrack x2
    Mechanik
    ~Chocolate Rain! Some stay dry and others feel the pain~

  19. #59
    Destroyer of Worlds BarskeMannen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimfaxi View Post
    Eh, the issue with Body and Soul wasn't that an offensive upkeep was automatically applied, it was that said upkeep was Pursuit and it allowed Deneghra to move closer and lock you down with her Feat even further and sooner than normal. As such, I can't really think of Protectorate debuffs that would solidly screw someone over anywhere near to that extent, especially since PP basically burned that entire play concept to the ground in this edition which makes this academic question even more frivolous and irrelevant.
    Turn 1 Rebuke would be pretty rough. Have fun walking, guys!
    My tin dudes can take your tin dudes.

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  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarskeMannen View Post
    Turn 1 Rebuke would be pretty rough. Have fun walking, guys!
    I'm thinking reznik2+lamentation and running 14" first turn.

    Doesn't quite catch them first turn but damn if that won't scare them
    ~Chocolate Rain! Some stay dry and others feel the pain~

  21. #61

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    Can the choir walk out of formation, sing their song, then reposition back into formation?

  22. #62
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDragon View Post
    Can the choir walk out of formation, sing their song, then reposition back into formation?
    Nope. You can't do * actions if you're out of formation.
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    It's a game it should always be enjoyable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Domo View Post
    "Yes. Let us play toy soldiers like grown men!"

  23. #63
    Destroyer of Worlds BarskeMannen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBooyah View Post
    I'm thinking reznik2+lamentation and running 14" first turn.

    Doesn't quite catch them first turn but damn if that won't scare them
    Lamentation, Boundless Charge and charging already accomplishes this to some extent. The most important part of the tech is to charge specifically their caster while looking your opponent dead in the eye and flaring out your nostrils. Establish table dominance from turn 1 and onward.
    My tin dudes can take your tin dudes.

    PbP characters: Vys Elyntheir (IWC)

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBooyah View Post
    Toying with Tristian2 in ADR atm. The toolbox is endless but it's getting the right points which will be the problem.

    "Shoot things, then Manifest Destiny with feat and smash things"
    Are encountering shooting? Swap in Vigilant, consider devoiut and reclaimer
    Are encountering magic? Swap in Indictor and Devout
    Not much shooting worry about? Put in Indictor and reclaimer

    I'm wondering how effective reclaimer + future sight would be with Manifest Destiny up.. Also considering a revenger to drop off Chasten where necessary.

    Tristian2
    - Heirophant
    - Reckoner
    - Reckoner
    - Vanquisher
    - Vanquisher
    - Castigator

    Choir (max)
    Choir (min)
    Visgoth et al
    Vassal Mechanik x2
    Wrack x1

    Free doods
    Covenenant
    Vassal of Menoth x2

    Specialists (1pt left)
    Indictor
    Vigilant
    Devout
    Reclaimer
    Wrack x2
    Mechanik
    How about a Guardian instead of a Revenger?
    Protectorate, Cygnar & Retribution.

    , & Magic.

  25. #65
    Annihilator Arjac Ironside's Avatar
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    Perhaps a better question is can the Wracks reposition? They are Solos...

    jk I know they can't be moved.
    =]|[= Innocence Proves Nothing =]|[=

  26. #66
    Destroyer of Worlds doomedtorepeatit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarskeMannen View Post
    Lamentation, Boundless Charge and charging already accomplishes this to some extent. The most important part of the tech is to charge specifically their caster while looking your opponent dead in the eye and flaring out your nostrils. Establish table dominance from turn 1 and onward.
    Now that is funny. I don't think I've ever tried that before, I'll give it a whirl!


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  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarskeMannen View Post
    Lamentation, Boundless Charge and charging already accomplishes this to some extent. The most important part of the tech is to charge specifically their caster while looking your opponent dead in the eye and flaring out your nostrils. Establish table dominance from turn 1 and onward.
    New Wurmwood solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjac Ironside View Post
    Perhaps a better question is can the Wracks reposition? They are Solos...
    Yeah I noticed that. I think the immobile rule overrides that, but I'm also not even convinced they get an actual activation.
    Choir Kills: 6

  28. #68
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    immobile says wracks cant be moved. so you cant reposition them.

    I'm also not even convinced they get an actual activation.
    I think wracks do still get an activation. they just dont get a normal move or combat action. So normally they cant do anything during their activation. But if there was some effect that triggered on a model activating, it could theoretically be triggered by wracks?
    Last edited by Soulblighter; 01-12-2017 at 05:56 AM.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulblighter View Post
    immobile says wracks cant be moved. so you cant reposition them.



    I think wracks do still get an activation. they just dont get a normal move or combat action. So normally they cant do anything during their activation. But if there was some effect that triggered on a model activating, it could theoretically be triggered by wracks?
    *Shrug*.

    Still, I hit nearly this same snag a few weeks ago w/regard to stationary. Fun Fact: you still get an activation, just most things you can do in it are restricted. you can still monk or paladin stance though!
    Choir Kills: 6

  30. #70

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    Any time I'm stationary, I'll try to remember to monk or paladin stance from now on.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDragon View Post
    Any time I'm stationary, I'll try to remember to monk or paladin stance from now on.
    it was sorcha1's feat, FWIW.
    Choir Kills: 6

  32. #72
    Conqueror Darvain's Avatar
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    Tristan2 in theme.
    2 Reckoners.
    2 Vanquishers.
    Repenter.
    Vigilant.
    Devout.
    2 Choir.
    Sprinkle solos to your taste.
    206 boxes of which we can heal 7d3 every round.

    Manifest Destiny and Hand of the Creator every round. On a feat turn, we fully load as needed and still can cast spells.
    Beat face. Burn face. Sanctify. ... profit?

    P.S. If you want more bling, put 2 Judicators, 1 Devout and 1 Crusader and sprinkle the rest as needed.
    178 boxes of BG of which we can heal 4d3 every round.
    Last edited by Darvain; 01-12-2017 at 10:40 AM.
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  33. #73
    Legal Eagle paradox's Avatar
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    Theme: The Creator's Might

    Grand Scrutator Severius - WJ: +28
    - Hierophant - PC: 0
    - Blessing of Vengeance - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
    - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15)
    - Reckoner - PC: 16

    Vessel of Judgment - PC: 18
    Vessel of Judgment - PC: 18

    Wrack (The Creator's Might) - 3 Wracks: 0
    Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
    Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
    Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 0
    - Reckoner - PC: 16

    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4

  34. #74

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    Has anyone thought of doing pKreoss in theme? You get access to basically everything that he needs, and theme allows you to get a free Tristan. Could turn into some real money once the revelator comes out.
    Let's give Eye of Menoth to Exulon Texus then - who cares.

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Govinator View Post
    Has anyone thought of doing pKreoss in theme? You get access to basically everything that he needs, and theme allows you to get a free Tristan. Could turn into some real money once the revelator comes out.
    My concern is the lack of Idrians, which to be fair, I'm sure you could do without because free tristan and stuff is nice.

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarskeMannen View Post
    Lamentation, Boundless Charge and charging already accomplishes this to some extent. The most important part of the tech is to charge specifically their caster while looking your opponent dead in the eye and flaring out your nostrils. Establish table dominance from turn 1 and onward.
    This is really the only way to play him. While I haven't charged forward with boundless up, I generally start out having Lamentation up and walking my 10... I might have to try that though, not the nostril and eye contact thing as thats already standard practice when playing Reznik2.

  37. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Govinator View Post
    Has anyone thought of doing pKreoss in theme? You get access to basically everything that he needs, and theme allows you to get a free Tristan. Could turn into some real money once the revelator comes out.
    What, something like this?
    War Room Army

    Protectorate of Menoth - Kreoss Theme

    Theme: The Creator's Might
    75 / 75 Army


    High Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +29
    - Hierophant - PC: 0
    - Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
    - Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
    - Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
    - Reckoner - PC: 16
    - Reckoner - PC: 16

    Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 0
    - Redeemer - PC: 11
    - Redeemer - PC: 11
    The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0
    Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
    Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
    Wrack - PC: 1
    Wrack - PC: 1
    Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1

    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4


    THEME: The Creator's Might
    ---

    GENERATED : 01/14/2017 15:41:20
    BUILD ID : 2034.17-01-07

  38. #78

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    I was toying around with ideas for a Kreoss list and came up with this:

    High Exemplar Kreoss + 29
    -Hierophant - 0
    -Judicator - 36
    -Reckoner - 16
    -Reckoner - 16
    Initiate Tristan Durant - 0
    -Redeemer - 11
    -Redeemer - 11
    Vassal of Menoth - 0
    Vassal of Menoth - 0
    Vassal Mechanik - 1
    Wrack - 1
    Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - 9

    Theme: The Creator's Might

  39. #79

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    Here's my Amon list that I used today in a steamroller -- I only used it once (I paired it with high reclaimer) but I won with it:

    War Room Army

    Protectorate of Menoth - Amon Theme force

    Theme: The Creator's Might
    75 / 75 Army


    Stockpile - Steamroller Objective

    High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza - WJ: +29
    - Hierophant - PC: 0
    - Castigator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
    - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
    - Indictor - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
    - Dervish - PC: 7
    - Dervish - PC: 7
    - Templar - PC: 15
    - Vigilant - PC: 9
    - Templar - PC: 15

    The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0
    Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0
    Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
    Wrack - PC: 1
    Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
    Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
    Wrack - PC: 1

    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4


    THEME: The Creator's Might
    ---

    GENERATED : 01/14/2017 20:33:55
    BUILD ID : 2034.17-01-07

  40. #80

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    Ran the following today vs Kaelyssa (which was an awful match-up, so many ways to screw with my focus).

    Tristan2
    Heirophant
    Devout
    Templar x2
    Indictor x2
    Castigator x2
    min Choir x2
    Vassal Mechanik x2
    Vassal of Menoth
    Free Wracks

    So I've done variants of this before, and I've taken to running my jacks in pods of 3, with one of each heavy per pod, roughly base-to-base, with Tristan and the Devout in the middle, close enough to get Choir. This has proven relatively successful, as I have a large brick of heavy armor on each side of the board, each of which is relatively flexible (has a shield-guard, combustion & ashen veil, and a blessed & magical weapon, allowing it to deal with a lot of different issues). While the theme list doesn't really provide any earth-shattering bonuses, it also doesn't cost me anything.

    As for today, ended up getting assassinated due to Banshee slamming a Devout over Tristan. Otherwise I was in a good position, down to 4 heavies (lost both Castigators, and one Indictor was down to very about 10 boxes), Devout, Vassal, both Mechaniks and 1 choir, but opponent was down to Eiryss2, Electromancers, Fane Knight, a Banshee, and 3 Arcanist Mechaniks.

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