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  1. #1

    Default Thexus/Bart Evaluation Please!

    Hey everyone,

    New to Mercs while I take a break from my Trollbloods. I've built what I'm hoping is a competitive enough pairing to serve as a distraction that play very differently from what I'm used to.

    I'd love to get some C&C on what I've got, and any problem matchups you think might arise. My current Thexus list is 3 points short, in case I want to swap my subduer to a wrecker, or change out Alexia to another Wrecker. Not sure how else I can fill the 3 points atm.

    Thanks for looking!

    Mercenary Army - 74 / 75 points

    (Montador 1) Captain Bartolo Montador [+26]
    - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
    - Galleon [39]
    - Nomad [11]
    - Nomad [11]
    - Nomad [11]
    The Commodore Cannon & Crew [7]
    Ragman [4]
    Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7]
    Hutchuck, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [6]

    Mercenary Army - 72 / 75 points
    Theme: Operating Theater

    (Thexus 1) Exulon Thexus [+29]
    - Wrecker [14]
    - Warden [10]
    - Subduer [11]
    Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10]
    - Cephalyx Dominator [1]
    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges (max) [12]
    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges (max) [12]
    Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges (max) [11]
    Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges (max) [11]
    Cephalyx Agitator [3]
    Cephalyx Agitator [3]
    Cephalyx Agitator [3]
    Cephalyx Overlords [0]

  2. #2
    Judge Robert Shepherd's Avatar
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    They're both very solid. I can think of a few different ways you might tinker with each, but there's nothing you really strictly need to do to improve either of the two lists. However, some feedback that might help you tweak them;

    Bartolo
    The core of your list is extremely solid, but you might think about how valuable the expensive solos you've taken are. You’re floating a point already, so that 7pt Eiryss and 6pt Hutchuk could both be 7pt Talons that will be getting a free focus and Batten every turn. Alternatively, a cheap infantry presence might operate well in support of your extremely strong battlegroup. I’ve been getting excellent use out of minimum halberdier units in support of heavy battlegroups, provided you play them conservatively as support pieces and don't commit them in advance of the heavies into the teeth of anti-infantry firepower.

    Thexus
    Off the bat, you’re only 3pts of infantry short of getting a second free overlord unit. Flex your infantry options to spend those last 3pts and get 8pts free. The quickest and easiest way would be to cut an agitator (two will suffice for three heavies) and add a Dominator and Eliminators.
    Judge since 5th November 2013
    Heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. The Cryx forums have lots of discussion right now. Go see them. Lol at Cryx tears. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "but doctor, I am a Cryx player."

  3. #3
    Destroyer of Worlds
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    You are three points short in your Thexus list and you have only 57 points of infantry? The simplest way of spending those three points is to exchange one maximum mind bender unit for two minimum - and get a unit of Overlords for free. Almost everything else you could do after that is a matter of seasoning to taste (I also favour three minimum slavers over two maximum just because of how bad drudges get when you take out the leader - and there's also the question of whether you want to try sliding Kayazy Eliminators or Aiyana & Holt into that list).

  4. #4
    Judge Robert Shepherd's Avatar
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    I played a game this evening with the 60pts of infantry (62, actually) running Alexia1 and a full Cutthroat unit. It unpacked and played as well as I could hope for, but the experience makes me look in retrospect at the prospect of a full forty drudges plus Alexia plus the rest of the list and recoil in horror at the thought of trying to put it through its paces on the table. SPD5 0.5" melee troops with no pathfinder are unwieldy and a half.

    Ajax_xaja, you said you've played trollbloods so might be more prepared for it than some, but go into that list infantry loadout with both eyes open.
    Judge since 5th November 2013
    Heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. The Cryx forums have lots of discussion right now. Go see them. Lol at Cryx tears. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "but doctor, I am a Cryx player."

  5. #5
    Destroyer of Worlds UmbrellaCorp487's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Shepherd View Post
    I played a game this evening with the 60pts of infantry (62, actually) running Alexia1 and a full Cutthroat unit. It unpacked and played as well as I could hope for, but the experience makes me look in retrospect at the prospect of a full forty drudges plus Alexia plus the rest of the list and recoil in horror at the thought of trying to put it through its paces on the table. SPD5 0.5" melee troops with no pathfinder are unwieldy and a half.

    Ajax_xaja, you said you've played trollbloods so might be more prepared for it than some, but go into that list infantry loadout with both eyes open.
    I played my version of the 60 infantry thexus list yesterday
    Thexus
    Wrecker
    Wrecker
    2 x Min Bender
    1 Max Bender
    2 x Max Slavers
    Alexia
    Aiyana(sp?) & Holt
    2 x Agitator
    2 x Free Overlords

    Deploying both over lord units where there is terrain issues seems to be the way to go. having both min units of benders on either flank works out nice depending on where you need to ambush. Over all the list played great and my game was actually into Cephalyx's worst nightmare, epic Severius, whos feat just removes our unit leaders. Still ended up winning after a long game but this list has some wheels.
    Stick your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan!

  6. #6

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    Thanks so much for all of the great insight and advice everyone.

    I got a chance to play a game of each list yesterday, and I'm glad what I'm reporting back is basically exactly what you guys are finding.

    I played Thexus into Issyria + Hyperion, and even with an ambushing unit of slavers to tie up the invictors, it was way too unwieldy to unpack 40 models on my deployment line, made even worse by a lack of pathfinder. I don't think Alexia helps the list much for what I want to do with it. Flooding the board with bodies was nice, but shrinking my benders down to min units is starting to sound nice. A second wrecker definitely felt necessary, losing my only really heavy hitter was a huge problem. Not sure I need the subduer either, as cool a model as he is.

    @UmbrellaCorp487, I'm glad you found some success with the list, maybe this all comes down to my lack of play time with thexus. I feel like he's definitely one of those casters I'll really need to put reps in with to win games with.

    As for Bart, I'm really enjoying the list. It's just like being back in trolls, but with a useful gun platform and not anchored to a krielstone.

    @Robert Shepherd, I think I'll take your advice and drop Hutchuck. Eiryss and Hutchuck do similar things of controlling the board with their threat, but two is definitely overkill for models that are sitting around waiting for that one big moment. I like your talon idea, as I did feel like I needed another model to contest split scenarios with, but I'm also leaning heavily towards taking Orin and a tinker. I played into Calaban (and had to basically switch lists against Issyria who countered me hard with Blinding Light) and felt like Arcane Vortex would have solved those issues for me. Being able to stop things like Crip grasp, mag hold, blinding light, and parasite seem to important when you have as many points as you do sunk into the Galleon.

    I'll continue to play around and report back on this thread until I settle on a finalized pairing. I promised myself I'd limit myself to Thexus/Bart only since this'll be my secondary faction, so I'm hoping to keep this thread alive as a journal of sorts.

    Thanks again!

  7. #7

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    Just an update:

    I've gone ahead and dropped Hutchuck in favor of Orin and a Tinker, and it's working out great. Orin stopping all of the debuffs that might help to kill my galleon is too good to pass up, and removing high def or ambushing models with his chain lightning is great. Glad I went with that decision.

    I'm now considering dropping Eiryss and Sylys for another Nomad. I'm not entirely sure how much I really need Sylys, since I'm almost never casting any offensive spells that need boosting. 4 points for a free focus every turn seems expensive...but we'll see how it plays out. I suppose that extra attack or boost when I need it could be useful as well. Eiryss also does a great job of serving as a distraction. Thoughts?

  8. #8
    Judge Robert Shepherd's Avatar
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    I think dropping Syllys is probably a good idea. Consider: Syllys is 4pts for a FOC each turn. Taking an extra Nomad also gives you a FOC each turn.

    Something you might want to try if you feel like proxying the models is transitioning the list to Kingmaker. Your support staff gets cut down and you can no longer take the Commodore, but in place you can take a unit of Rangers to make the Galleon RAT7. Throw in a unit of Halberdiers for some infantry presence and you've got your 20pts of infantry and now Orin is free. The remaining points can be spent on an even larger battlegroup (or more infantry if you feel like it; you can't really have too many rangers).

    (Not that I'd blame you if you wanted to keep the Commodore. It's pretty excellent.)
    Judge since 5th November 2013
    Heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. The Cryx forums have lots of discussion right now. Go see them. Lol at Cryx tears. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "but doctor, I am a Cryx player."

  9. #9

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    Updating here, so that I can use this as a progression log of sorts of the evolution of my lists.

    Bart:
    I've got about 10 games of the above Bart list, and while I'm really enjoying it, I'm finding that having no magical attacks can be pretty crippling. I've upgraded my expensive solos (and removed Syllys) for another Nomad, which has been working out great. As much as I love how effective Ragman and the Commodore have been working out for me (and the commodore's just so damn fun to play), I'll be swapping them out for Aiyana and Holt and Dirty Meg.

    The lack of magical attacks has opened me up to a lot of list holes, and the Galleon really wants to be able to take out a heavy or two before getting engaged. Aiyana's ability to make weapons magic should help a lot into the Menoth matchups, or anyone with Windwall. Kiss should be an equivalent exchange for Ragman's death field, and the redundancy on the repairs just makes the armor spam go that much further.

    Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 points

    (Montador 1) Captain Bartolo Montador [+26]
    - Galleon [39]
    - Nomad [11]
    - Nomad [11]
    - Nomad [11]
    - Nomad [11]
    Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
    Dirty Meg [3]
    Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
    Gobber Tinker [2]

    Thexus:
    While I've been enjoying my Thexus army, it has been really unwieldy trying to unpack and navigate with this many models, especially with the lack of pathfinder in the list, and the prevalence of rough terrain recently. Although I'll probably end up missing the Warden, I'd like to give Croe's a try, as I've heard so much good about them. Pathfinder and reposition sounds amazing, and having a unit who can contribute without having to "wait their turn" to do anything seem useful.

    Mercenary Army - 74 / 75 points
    [Theme] Operating Theater

    (Thexus 1) Exulon Thexus [+29]
    - Wrecker [14]
    - Wrecker [14]
    - Subduer [11]
    Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges (min) [7]
    Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges (min) [7]
    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges (max) [12]
    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges (max) [12]
    Cephalyx Overlords [0]
    Croe's Cutthroats (max) [16]
    - Cephalyx Dominator [1]
    Cephalyx Agitator [3]
    Cephalyx Agitator [3]
    Cephalyx Agitator [3]

    One issue that I'm running into is that I don't think I really have a great drop into Convergence at the moment. It's definitely a bit of a niche thing to tech against since they don't come up very often, but Iron Mother, TEP's, and Axiom's just seem like they've got the upper hand on me most of the time with this pairing.

    As usual, I'd love to hear any critiques or comments while I continue to tune the lists. Thanks for reading!
    Last edited by ajax_xaja; Yesterday at 11:19 AM.

  10. #10
    Conqueror
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    On your Bart list: I understand the approach but I personally think you'd get more bang by taking Galleon, Commodore and all the Talons (instead of Nomads). A&H and Reinhold would both be very good, seeing as Bart makes a one-collossal-jack-gunline. That's based on personal experience. Oh, and I also totally agree with taking Orin - he can be very important with Bart against armor debuffs.

    On the convergence match up: I personally think that nothing in Mercs is able to have an upper hand against Iron Mother. Against other casters, your best bet is probably Cyphon. He's intrinsically weaker than ET, yet he's so good into armor. Against Mother, he's more or less even (Perseverance prevents drags, and you can use the Warden with it as a roadblock o protect other heavies). Still, it's a very tricky match up where a small mistake on your part will cost you the game. Against Lucant, Cyphon can easily afford to wait out the feat turn. Also, after some games I thought that Cyphon would be better with dominated Alexia instead of one Bender unit (the full list hence becoming 3Wreckers + Warden + 2 max banders + 1 max slaver + alexia + 2 agitators). The extra recursion from alexia could be a very strong assets allowing to have a slower positioning game (Convergence shooting attrition is pretty brutal, so you need tools for enabling a slower game - without those he'll get to your heavies very fast).

    Fun fact: cyphon is awesome into man-o-wars, which both our primary gunlines (Ossrum and Bart) strugle against. A feated wrecker with Instigate needs 3+ to hit and then 5+ to kill due to chain weapons; and having Thresher means you might potentially kill 5 with one special attack...

  11. #11
    Annihilator
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    Fun fact - Thexus is better into man-o-wars because his feat can arrange them into nice arcs for the wreckers to walk into.

    Played him into a list recently which had 2 full units and got to live the dream. Terrible matchup for the Khador player.

  12. #12
    Conqueror
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    Manowars are sturdy and steady. That is the worst part about them.

  13. #13
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    Oh well, I'll remember that next time (opponent did not, he must have forgotten).

    Still would have got threeish with each wrecker as they were roughly lined up, just not the four with one and five with the other I did.

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