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  1. #1

    Default Feora 3 horse in the IKRPG, how do we explain it?

    Before I try to make my point, I just want to clarify that I absolutely love the way this model looks, I think it's extremely metal.

    That being said...how does it work in this world?, the horse has exhausts that seem extremely impractical, but the biggest issue for me is the fire hair, is this a magical horse?, this would be the first magical horse in the history of the iron kingdoms if I'm not mistaken, is the horse breed magicaly?, was it summoned from urcaen?, was a normal horse transformed into a fire horse?, does the fire in his hair actually burns things?. Are there other horses like this?.

    If it was just the wargame I probably won't worry too much about it, but since there is a role play game, and specially one with so much attention to detail put into it (2 great books, one entire book dedicated to the iron kingdoms, one dedicated to skorne, tons of no quarters), this creates questions both has a player and has a DM.

    Again, I love the mini, but this direction in art worries me, since I think takes the world into a weird direction that doesn't seem to fit the world that has been build so far.




    There is another amazing model that uses horses, Reznik 2, but it looks perfectly grounded in the world, it doesn't have magical flames coming from an odd place and it doesn't have unnecessary weird exhausts, it doesn't need that to look cool.



    Both models look really awesome, but one is grounded in the "reality" of the world presented so far and the other looks like something that came out of age of Sigmar (entirely different franchise), or in other words, she looks a bit over the top.

    I know the look of the model has been out for some time, but only today I saw it painted by the PP studio, I wasn't expecting the fire hair, which is the main issue here. So how do we explain the fire hair?.
    Last edited by Serenet; 01-09-2017 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Destroyer of Worlds Beest's Avatar
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    simple. her ponyta finally evolved into rapidash.

    I imagine some form of fire retardant padding is under the armour and then there's grooves that channels menoths fury along the armour, the vents are there as an oxygen intact maybe?

    alternatively MAGIC!
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  3. #3

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    Personally I would say it's magical or mechanika barding, and the fire is just a trapping or side effect of that. I can't imagine the horse is aware of it or the poor thing would never stop screaming, running, and rolling around in the dirt.

  4. #4

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    Issue is I also find it impractical, have you ever hold a torch in front of you?, the light of it blinds you, so basically feora can't see anything because of the light it emits.

    And yes, I understand the "magic" argument, but this isn't forgotten realms, the magic in this world functions in certain ways and with certain limitations. Like superman, yes he does impossible and fantastical things, but if one day all of a sudden in a comic book he starts making people fly around him with no explanation, you are going to wonder "what is going on".

    Same thing, I understand is "magic" but how is it explained in the context of how magic works in this world?, so like you point out, the horse doesn't just start running around in pain.

  5. #5
    Destroyer of Worlds BanzaiZAP's Avatar
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    Its not really fire. Feora just dyes it. All the Vassals who help her say "Ouch!" when grooming just to humor her.

  6. #6
    Destroyer of Worlds Grey Templar's Avatar
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    I'm going to be painting mine as if the horse itself is just fire given physical form.

    But I think the mini itself was just made to look cool without consideration given to it being remotely plausible.
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  7. #7
    Annihilator Hjard's Avatar
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    I sign the Ponyta argument.

  8. #8
    Conqueror Jordan Peacock's Avatar
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    Okay, now I want a flame-horse.

    I third the Ponyta explanation, although all the Pokewarbeast trainers ("I choose YOU, Bignastypigthing!" *pop*) appear to be in the Unleashed factions.

    Anyway, I figure it's holy mechanika-magic of Menoth. PURIFYING FIRE, and all that. Yes, from a mechanical standpoint, it's ludicrous, but mechanically speaking, so is a lot of the "mechanikal" stuff, with trappings of engines and mobility even where there's no apparent need for moving parts, guys stomping around in mechanical armor with what looks like a furnace grill on the chest area when -- no, there can't be a FURNACE in there, because there needs to be room for someone's chest and internal ORGANS there. I can only assume that "mechanikal" engineering is something akin to my concept of how cars worked when I was, say, 7 years old: you design a really cool-looking car body, designate some part of the body as to where the engine goes, and then you just start cramming in cables and exhausts and belts and doohickeys until you have enough awesomeness to make the thing work. Any basis upon actual mechanical concepts is entirely optional -- or perhaps even counterproductive.

    For another mechani-horse comparison, when I first saw the (unpainted) model for the Khador Man-o-War Dragoon, I thought the horse was some sort of mechano-horse. I mean, it has these huge screwdriver-head bolts running alongside its neck, and you couldn't very well be running ginormous bolts into the neck of a living flesh-and-blood horse like that and still, you know, keep the thing alive, right? Ditto for some of the pieces of armor that are styled as if they're bolted right into the horse's joints -- which, again, would be rather counterproductive, considering that flesh-and-bone joints wouldn't offer a "hard-point" for bolting something in like that. However, I don't imagine that it's meant to seriously represent giant bolts being run through the horse. (Sure, Khador is tough and edgy, but not THAT cruel -- and it just wouldn't make sense, anyway.) So, I'm left with the impression that the sculptors and artists, as wonderfully talented as they are, simply don't give that much thought as to the mechanical whazzits of how these things work, or WHY you would put screw-bolts here or there, and instead are just following the "rule of cool." The big bolt heads just LOOK cool there, so therefore, there they go, even if there's not a plausible surface to bolt something into.

    I'm reminded of some of Paul Bonner's cover art for Warzone / Mutant Chronicles. BEAUTIFUL work, really -- heavily stylized -- and GIGANTIC guns portrayed with no attempt at sense for how a gun really works. Stuff like a big scary revolver, and the barrel is lined up with the CENTER of the cylinder, and no chambers -- or bullets -- are visible in what would have been the exposed parts of the cylinder on either side. THAT'S NOT HOW A REVOLVER WORKS. But if you look at the picture as a whole and overlook that glaring detail, it still looks great. (It bugs me, yes, but I still wish I could paint like that.)

    And "able to see through fire" seems like a pretty modest power to grant to holy followers of Menoth, so perhaps that's part of the package deal for Feora.

  9. #9

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    This is a PoM model, yeah? They have a host of minor miracls, like armor too heavy for a human to wear and an avatar that floats in the air. A horse that has fire for a mane and tail is toward the shallow end of that pool.

    Likely, the horse is from particular bloodline, and upon getting bless, gains the fireworks. The blessing may only be given just before battle, so only the enemies get a good look at it.

  10. #10
    Architect of The 3-Step Plan to Victory Mod_Faultie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanzaiZAP View Post
    Its not really fire. Feora just dyes it. All the Vassals who help her say "Ouch!" when grooming just to humor her.
    I'm going to go with this explanation.

  11. #11

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    Unless I'm wrong, the IK setting doesn't really have traditional D&D elementals, which would be the other explanation for a fire-horse like that.

  12. #12
    Conqueror Jordan Peacock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelDraco View Post
    Unless I'm wrong, the IK setting doesn't really have traditional D&D elementals, which would be the other explanation for a fire-horse like that.
    Personally, given the exhaust pipes and other "mechanika" cues on the armor, I'm leaning toward "fire effect from mechanika" or else "persistent blessed/magical effect by the fiery grace of Menoth," rather than "there are actually horses with flaming manes and tails out there, waiting to be rounded up," even if the latter would be terribly awesome, and I'd so go for that.

    HOWEVER, I can't help but think about ... grymkins? That seems to be the catch-all for "weird faerie-realm stuff that isn't even remotely naturalistic" -- though, having said that, this is a world in which you have two-headed dogs who can stun people with their barks. But then, grymkin seem to be universally mischievous and capricious, if not just all around malevolent, not something so cooperative as a horse that would allow a mortal rider.

    Old d20 Monsternomicon had "steamlings," which may not be elementals in the traditional D&D sense, but sure seemed to come frightfully close to the concept. (They play a role in "Smoke on the Water," an adventure from NQ 4 that I've adapted for my IKRPG campaign.)

    Also, don't trolls get awfully "elemental" in their iterations? Pyre trolls, for example. So, who knows?

    I'm hoping that the new Protectorate FoW book might offer a little more of a clue in the accompanying fluff.

  13. #13
    Creator of Words PPS_Dougseacat's Avatar
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    I'll admit this gave us some headaches in the writing department, and you'll note in the model entry (when you can read it) we didn't talk about the horse.

    The way I personally interpret this is that the horse being "on fire" is purely a visual side-effect of some of her spells and feat. When you get the chance to see her rules (soon, I think) you'll see her feat in particular lends itself to this visual effect.

    The exhaust pipes on the armor are harder to explain, as clearly there's no steam engine in the breastplate barding! In my opinion this is half a purely aesthetic visual effect to mirror the exhaust pipes on her own back, chosen by some artisan at the Sul-Menite artificers, and half what I'd consider to be extreme heat venting. (Essentially the mechanikal equivalent of a heat sink, such as one might find on overclocked computer CPUs. Clearly Feora needs to learn about water cooling!)

  14. #14
    Destroyer of Worlds Northern Ronin's Avatar
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    This is easily my least favorite model in some time, favoring style far too much at the cost of good sense (well, sense within the setting at least). I'm going to explain it in the RPG by ignoring it.

  15. #15
    Combatant Asleif's Avatar
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    This ...

    Quote Originally Posted by BanzaiZAP View Post
    Its not really fire. Feora just dyes it. All the Vassals who help her say "Ouch!" when grooming just to humor her.
    and this

    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Dougseacat View Post
    I'll admit this gave us some headaches in the writing department, and you'll note in the model entry (when you can read it) we didn't talk about the horse.

    The way I personally interpret this is that the horse being "on fire" is purely a visual side-effect of some of her spells and feat. When you get the chance to see her rules (soon, I think) you'll see her feat in particular lends itself to this visual effect.

    The exhaust pipes on the armor are harder to explain, as clearly there's no steam engine in the breastplate barding! In my opinion this is half a purely aesthetic visual effect to mirror the exhaust pipes on her own back, chosen by some artisan at the Sul-Menite artificers, and half what I'd consider to be extreme heat venting. (Essentially the mechanikal equivalent of a heat sink, such as one might find on overclocked computer CPUs. Clearly Feora needs to learn about water cooling!)
    leads me to imagine hilariously exasperated Sul-Menite artificers having conversations along the lines of:
    "She wants what on her horse?"
    "Yes... she wants exhaust pipes..."
    "uhm... she does realize we don't really require exhaust pipes ... to ... spread the glory of menoth... right?"
    "Are you going to be the one who tells her she can't have exhaust pipes on her horse?"
    "How many does she want and what color should they be in?"

  16. #16
    Combatant Oppi's Avatar
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    I'm just gonna leave this here ...

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asleif View Post
    This ...



    and this



    leads me to imagine hilariously exasperated Sul-Menite artificers having conversations along the lines of:
    "She wants what on her horse?"
    "Yes... she wants exhaust pipes..."
    "uhm... she does realize we don't really require exhaust pipes ... to ... spread the glory of menoth... right?"
    "Are you going to be the one who tells her she can't have exhaust pipes on her horse?"
    "How many does she want and what color should they be in?"
    Accepted.
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  18. #18

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    What about the models aren't literal exact replications of their appearance, and are more along the lines of "artist's interpretation" of how they really are.

    Kinda like how a lot of the fluff is told from an in-universe perspective (like the Monsternomicons all being written by Pendrake).

    Feora3 probably doesn't really have her horse on fire, that's probably just propaganda from Menoth. Or maybe just the fevered drawings of some poor sod who saw her in battle one time (I imagine him in a tavern, describing it as a typical menite, but with more fire, and more exhaust pipes!).

    Maybe some models are just sculpted by gobbers, who sometimes get carried away with their depictions...

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_Dougseacat View Post
    I'll admit this gave us some headaches in the writing department, and you'll note in the model entry (when you can read it) we didn't talk about the horse.

    The way I personally interpret this is that the horse being "on fire" is purely a visual side-effect of some of her spells and feat. When you get the chance to see her rules (soon, I think) you'll see her feat in particular lends itself to this visual effect.

    The exhaust pipes on the armor are harder to explain, as clearly there's no steam engine in the breastplate barding! In my opinion this is half a purely aesthetic visual effect to mirror the exhaust pipes on her own back, chosen by some artisan at the Sul-Menite artificers, and half what I'd consider to be extreme heat venting. (Essentially the mechanikal equivalent of a heat sink, such as one might find on overclocked computer CPUs. Clearly Feora needs to learn about water cooling!)
    Thank you for your answer Doug, is a nice thing to know the perspective you guys have on this, and just like we see a model with a look that can be hard to explain and enjoy it, I hope you guys also notice that for some of us the coherency on the characters, miniatures and the world they live in matters to a degree. This pretty much comes from people that like me, are fans not only of the rules and the looks, but the world building and the story behind them.

    I really like your interpretation of it and gives me some peace fo mind to see it that way too.

    thanks

  20. #20
    Destroyer of Worlds Xarlaxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurdy View Post
    What about the models aren't literal exact replications of their appearance, and are more along the lines of "artist's interpretation" of how they really are.
    I could imagine this being pretty reasonable, especially considering some of the crazy conversions around "I saw a giant metal carriage, covered in guns, pulled by a bear! And the bear was being ridden by a man in armour that shot steam!"
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  21. #21

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    My explanation: Menoth looked down, saw Feora and said- This one shall have a kick *** fire horse

  22. #22
    Destroyer of Worlds Morgan Coalburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyrandis View Post
    My explanation: Menoth looked down, saw Feora and said- This one shall have a kick *** fire horse
    My explanation: Menites have no taste.
    “They say necessity is the mother of invention. Well, by that account I should probably consider myself invention's crazy uncle who is never invited to family dos...”

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Coalburn View Post
    My explanation: Menites have no taste.
    fair enough

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    Destroyer of Worlds malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Coalburn View Post
    My explanation: Menites have no taste.
    Wrong. Menites have a taste for barbecue. That's why they set everything on fire.
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    Sheesh guys, LIVING model request or no pettings for you! Bad Cryx, BAD!

  25. #25
    Destroyer of Worlds Morgan Coalburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malachi View Post
    Wrong. Menites have a taste for barbecue. That's why they set everything on fire.
    That, sir, is slander of the vilest kind. In fact, Feora has now become so exhausted by such calumnies that she has felt the need for additional exhaust ports.
    “They say necessity is the mother of invention. Well, by that account I should probably consider myself invention's crazy uncle who is never invited to family dos...”

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