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  1. #1

    Default What does amon struggle against.

    I'm playing a steamroller in a few weeks and want to run amon with the new Jack list but I'm unsure of what other caster to bring because in all the games I've played he's done incredibly well and I can't see a glaring weakness. I'm thinking Thyra atm but I'm just unsure what to drop her into because I think amon is usually my go to list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    I'm playing a steamroller in a few weeks and want to run amon with the new Jack list but I'm unsure of what other caster to bring because in all the games I've played he's done incredibly well and I can't see a glaring weakness. I'm thinking Thyra atm but I'm just unsure what to drop her into because I think amon is usually my go to list.
    Mass disruption comes to mind. I'd avoid the cygnar matchup based on your lists. Also una2, I really don't see the game.
    Choir Kills: 5

  3. #3

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    Crippling depression.

  4. #4

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    In all seriousness I can't remember feeling like he was struggling with much. I am far from a super competitive meta though.
    Edit: I would second the mass disruption. I would not be too happy to see that.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroscope0 View Post
    In all seriousness I can't remember feeling like he was struggling with much. I am far from a super competitive meta though.
    Edit: I would second the mass disruption. I would not be too happy to see that.
    yaa... nemo 1's feat hurts

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    He can struggle against good assassins... especially ones with a good chance of hitting and the ability to ignore his 'jack wall to get to him (so... Thyra, anyone with Telekinesis, Caine2, etc.) 16 DEF is good, especially when you're hiding behind a Vigilant to make it 20... but good assassins often have some way to circumvent that.
    It's not a question of win or lose, it's a question of whether or not you want to have friends afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackraine View Post
    He can struggle against good assassins... especially ones with a good chance of hitting and the ability to ignore his 'jack wall to get to him (so... Thyra, anyone with Telekinesis, Caine2, etc.) 16 DEF is good, especially when you're hiding behind a Vigilant to make it 20... but good assassins often have some way to circumvent that.
    For a list paring who would you drop into an assassination list to cover this weakness in your opinion?

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    Annihilator Arjac Ironside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    For a list paring who would you drop into an assassination list to cover this weakness in your opinion?
    Kr3oss? Durst? They are both pretty tanky. My default cygnar drop is Durst but I feel like he plays the same game as Amon now just slower and tankier, not sure how that would work in a pairing.
    =]|[= Innocence Proves Nothing =]|[=

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    For a list paring who would you drop into an assassination list to cover this weakness in your opinion?
    If you're having trouble with spell based ones, reznik 1.
    Choir Kills: 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroscope0 View Post
    Crippling depression.
    Well played, sir, well played.

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    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    What does amon Struggle against.
    Shirts.
    Have you never wondered why he's always bare chested?
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    The good thing about WM/H is there's always another chance.
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    It's a game it should always be enjoyable.
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    If you were that ripped would you wear a shirt?

  13. #13
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulblighter View Post
    If you were that ripped would you wear a shirt?
    Yes, because it's winter here in England right now, and it's bloody cold.
    (I actually chuckled, well played Soulblighter)
    Quote Originally Posted by Other_Mike View Post
    The good thing about WM/H is there's always another chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by jdeckert View Post
    It's a game it should always be enjoyable.
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    "Yes. Let us play toy soldiers like grown men!"

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    As somebody who is intrigued by Amon, but who is still building his collection (particularly on the jack front), what jacks does he like? I know Dervishes are a great fit for him, but how many does he usually bring? Not saying that I'll buy an Amon list right now, but I do have some money to spend thanks to Christmas and Birthday being back to back. I'm sure I'm still pretty far from having a decent jack list for him, but never to early to start.

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    Yes, because it's winter here in England right now, and it's bloody cold.
    (I actually chuckled, well played Soulblighter)
    okay but if you lived in the middle of the desert and everything was constantly on fire... lol.

  16. #16
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gargs View Post
    As somebody who is intrigued by Amon, but who is still building his collection (particularly on the jack front), what jacks does he like? I know Dervishes are a great fit for him, but how many does he usually bring? Not saying that I'll buy an Amon list right now, but I do have some money to spend thanks to Christmas and Birthday being back to back. I'm sure I'm still pretty far from having a decent jack list for him, but never to early to start.
    I'm not an expert, but I am also collecting 'jacks ready for Amon.
    I'm mostly after cheap 'jacks that have two initial attacks, so Dervishes, Castigators and maybe Crusaders. I also like the idea of running him with Scourge of Heresy, though he is the priciest options available to me at 16 points.
    I'm not sure if that's the way to go, but I feel that it's a good start for me, as I have all of these twice before I get Amon.
    It may be worth getting more flexible 'jacks before getting ones for specific casters, and he does still turn any of those into excellent armour crackers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Other_Mike View Post
    The good thing about WM/H is there's always another chance.
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    Combatant Manathern's Avatar
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    I found Amon struggle against anything with Backlash like Skarre 1 and Barathrum... 1 DMG to your caster per time a jack in the battle group is damaged doesn't seem to bad at first glance, but it is a slow and painful death for caster who mostly run jacks. Had a hard time both time I faced them togheter...

    Anything that out threat/speed Amon is also hard to deal with. I find in those match up (Denegra 3 comes to mind) Durst is a better caster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spideredd View Post
    I'm not an expert, but I am also collecting 'jacks ready for Amon.
    I'm mostly after cheap 'jacks that have two initial attacks, so Dervishes, Castigators and maybe Crusaders. I also like the idea of running him with Scourge of Heresy, though he is the priciest options available to me at 16 points.
    I'm not sure if that's the way to go, but I feel that it's a good start for me, as I have all of these twice before I get Amon.
    It may be worth getting more flexible 'jacks before getting ones for specific casters, and he does still turn any of those into excellent armour crackers.
    Thanks for the input! The good news about the jacks you list is that they are for the most part pretty flexible. I need to get some more Crusader and Reckoner kits anyway so starting there isn't bad. Unfortunately want to get Blessing too, but at least that will get me started (even with Blessing). On the plus side, my units are in fairly good order at the moment just so long as I don't want to double up on anything. (and yes, I realize Amon doesn't need units).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    For a list paring who would you drop into an assassination list to cover this weakness in your opinion?
    Durst, without question. If it's a melee assassin knocking at my door, they'd better be prepared to take a POW 14 WM attack to the face. If it's not... well, I'm 19 DEF/20 ARM vs ranged and probably have a few shield guards, so good luck with that. Harby, with three martyrable Shield Guards, isn't too bad either, as long as she keeps enough models close to deny a landing zone for melee casters. Her Auto-hitting melee attacks help a lot against most of the melee assassins, since most of those with any kind of serious threat range rely on DEF rather than ARM to keep themselves alive (the Rhyas/Thyra/Grayle/etc of the world)... but I'd probably still go with Durst.
    It's not a question of win or lose, it's a question of whether or not you want to have friends afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackraine View Post
    Durst, without question. If it's a melee assassin knocking at my door, they'd better be prepared to take a POW 14 WM attack to the face. If it's not... well, I'm 19 DEF/20 ARM vs ranged and probably have a few shield guards, so good luck with that. Harby, with three martyrable Shield Guards, isn't too bad either, as long as she keeps enough models close to deny a landing zone for melee casters. Her Auto-hitting melee attacks help a lot against most of the melee assassins, since most of those with any kind of serious threat range rely on DEF rather than ARM to keep themselves alive (the Rhyas/Thyra/Grayle/etc of the world)... but I'd probably still go with Durst.
    With the new theme force would you run units though or just better to run more or less another Jack spam list with durst.

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    Annihilator Arjac Ironside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    With the new theme force would you run units though or just better to run more or less another Jack spam list with durst.
    I'm trying this out this weekend, I expect 6 heavies with Durst to be pretty awesome. We shall see though.
    =]|[= Innocence Proves Nothing =]|[=

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjac Ironside View Post
    I'm trying this out this weekend, I expect 6 heavies with Durst to be pretty awesome. We shall see though.
    Let me know how it goes because my only concern with durst is he has no mat buff for high def beasts.

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    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    Let me know how it goes because my only concern with durst is he has no mat buff for high def beasts.
    Castigators don't need to roll to hit.
    I'm not saying that Arjac Ironside is using them, just pointing out the main benefit of a Castigator.
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    Destroyer of Worlds BarskeMannen's Avatar
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    Like any other army with a relatively low number of activations and low volume of guns Amon can struggle against hard control effects; Haley2 gets 2 turns to smash through his army and what's left might struggle to really build up that critical volume of attacks that Synergy requires to achieve best effect. Powerful guns that can start breaking Dervishes on the approach can similarily be difficult - Iron Mother Directrix will happily Ground Pounder right across any clumps of Dervishes you leave around while ignoring Passage, and if you don't clump up around your Fortify target then the Prime Axiom's Drag cables will start pulling your army apart on turn 2 and on.
    My tin dudes can take your tin dudes.

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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarskeMannen View Post
    Like any other army with a relatively low number of activations and low volume of guns Amon can struggle against hard control effects; Haley2 gets 2 turns to smash through his army and what's left might struggle to really build up that critical volume of attacks that Synergy requires to achieve best effect. Powerful guns that can start breaking Dervishes on the approach can similarily be difficult - Iron Mother Directrix will happily Ground Pounder right across any clumps of Dervishes you leave around while ignoring Passage, and if you don't clump up around your Fortify target then the Prime Axiom's Drag cables will start pulling your army apart on turn 2 and on.
    How do you get around haley 2 feat does it matter what you run because it's gonna devastated you no matter what you bring.

  26. #26
    Destroyer of Worlds BarskeMannen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    How do you get around haley 2 feat does it matter what you run because it's gonna devastated you no matter what you bring.
    Haley2's feat is going to happen, the large majority of your army is going to get hit by Stranglehold on the turn you least want them to and it's going to suck. That's all stuff you can't really avoid.

    What you can do is try to push up the board as aggressively as possible with some portion of your army to stop her feat putting so much pressure on you on scenario, and make sure to use your choir to stop spells so she can't TK/Dominate your battlegroup and generate free piece trades - the guns might sting, but having your stuff taken away from you with no retaliation options hurts more. Keep your biggest hitter or hitters back, as you're often going to have to chew through a Stormwall once Haley's army is done tickling your no-no places for two turns in a row. Keep your support pieces as far back as you can - premeasure distances so they can only just barely get to your warjacks to give focus/remove Disruption/apply Choir bonuses, and if you're lucky you might be able to keep a few of them out of her feat.
    My tin dudes can take your tin dudes.

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    Annihilator Arjac Ironside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    Let me know how it goes because my only concern with durst is he has no mat buff for high def beasts.
    There's some decent MAT in the mix, and flare will help too.

    Anson Durst +28
    - Hierophant -0
    - Templar -15
    - Indictor -15
    - Indictor -15
    - Reckoner -16
    - Crusader -10
    Avatar of Menoth -20

    Choir of Menoth (Max) -6

    Covenant of Menoth -0
    Vassal of Menoth -3
    Vassal of Menoth -3
    Wracks (x3) -0

    Total: 75/75
    =]|[= Innocence Proves Nothing =]|[=

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjac Ironside View Post
    There's some decent MAT in the mix, and flare will help too.

    Anson Durst +28
    - Hierophant -0
    - Templar -15
    - Indictor -15
    - Indictor -15
    - Reckoner -16
    - Crusader -10
    Avatar of Menoth -20

    Choir of Menoth (Max) -6

    Covenant of Menoth -0
    Vassal of Menoth -3
    Vassal of Menoth -3
    Wracks (x3) -0

    Total: 75/75
    Interesting. I had a nice Durst list that only got better with the recent themes.

    Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28
    - Hierophant - PC: 3
    - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
    - Indictor - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15)
    - Indictor - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
    - Reckoner - PC: 16
    - Reckoner - PC: 16
    - Crusader - PC: 10
    - Crusader - PC: 10
    Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0
    Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0
    The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0
    Wrack - PC: 1
    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4

    Played it yesterday, tabled a Irusk1 list inside 40mins.
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  29. #29
    Conqueror Menoth Darrell's Avatar
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    In my experience you've got quite a few options in terms of a pairing for Amon. Gunline, denial, troop spam etc. I find that either Reznik, Vindictus and High Reclaimer are good pairings for Amon that cover his weaknessess quite well.

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    Conqueror d3z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menoth Darrell View Post
    In my experience you've got quite a few options in terms of a pairing for Amon. Gunline, denial, troop spam etc. I find that either Reznik, Vindictus and High Reclaimer are good pairings for Amon that cover his weaknessess quite well.
    I agree. I just ran Amon in theme with Vinny at an event and found the pair went together pretty well. My only loss was against a ridiculous HR assassination.

    The other Protectorate player had the same thinking, Amon + dudespam (HR).

    How about Sev2? If you use two jack heavy lists, your opponent's list choice will likely be made for them, and then you can just pick what works better for you. Amon and Sev 2 play very different games.
    Last edited by d3z; 01-15-2017 at 06:45 AM.

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    What have you been running with vinny not seen or heard much of him since mk3 just thought he had fallen out the Meta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    What have you been running with vinny not seen or heard much of him since mk3 just thought he had fallen out the Meta
    Just run knights. All of them.

    --------

    Sev2 plays into pretty much anything depending on how you build him.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danith00 View Post
    Just run knights. All of them.

    --------

    Sev2 plays into pretty much anything depending on how you build him.
    Truth. 3 units w/ UA is not wrong.

  34. #34
    Conqueror d3z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesyr123 View Post
    What have you been running with vinny not seen or heard much of him since mk3 just thought he had fallen out the Meta
    Vindictus improved greatly over the edition change because of his new feat. On the most basic level, he overlaps with HR (takes lots of troops and uses his feat to deliver them), and that's perhaps why he isn't seen a lot.

    If you were interested in the list:
    ---------------------------------------
    Vindictus - +29
    - Reckoner - 16
    - Sanctifier - 14

    Covenant of Menoth - 4
    Wrack - 1

    Choir (min) - 4
    Flame Bringers (max) - 17
    Knights + CA - 14
    Knights + CA - 14
    Daughters of the Flame - 10
    Daughters of the Flame - 10

    Objective: Fuel Cache
    ---------------------------------------

    The list runs super fast to pressure scenario. I got to go first in every Vindictus game at the event, and in every game, only a few of my opponent's models were past their own AD line by the end of their second turn.
    Last edited by d3z; 01-15-2017 at 03:55 PM.

  35. #35
    Conqueror Menoth Darrell's Avatar
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    A listener list that I ran recently and subsequently tweaked to this version
    War Room Army

    Protectorate of Menoth - Vindictus Listener List
    75 / 75 Army

    Vice Scrutator Vindictus - WJ: +29
    - Hierophant - PC: 3
    - Eye of Truth - PC: 20 (Battlegroup Points Used: 20)
    - Vigilant - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)

    High Exemplar Gravus - PC: 9
    Wrack - PC: 1
    Wrack - PC: 1
    Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1

    Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
    - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5
    Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
    - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5
    Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
    - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5
    Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
    - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5
    Choir of Menoth - Leader & 4 Grunts: 4

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