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  1. #1

    Default Countering Placeable Clouds

    I feel like placeable clouds are something that our faction struggles with. Yes we have Sevvy2, and Tristan2... but how do we deal with these clouds when we use other casters?

  2. #2
    Destroyer of Worlds Spideredd's Avatar
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    Cleansers?
    (That would require some good positioning though)
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    Rhoven? At least 1 of your jacks can harm what's behind the clouds.

    Cleansers, as Spideredd pointed out.

    Malekus in a limited fashion. Run your jacks in the cloud, then Open Fire away.

    High Reclaimer if you can feat the dudes (Idrians) back in the cloud or close enough. (You are probably taking Cleansers, so you also have them)

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    Conqueror Master Chris's Avatar
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    Guys, just be careful about your assumptions regarding targeting models with sprays when clouds are involved. What worked in Mk2 doesn't necessarily work in Mk3...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvanous View Post
    I feel like placeable clouds are something that our faction struggles with. Yes we have Sevvy2, and Tristan2... but how do we deal with these clouds when we use other casters?
    It's a known weakness, really.
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  6. #6

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    "Do something powerful yourself and play your own game instead of trying to 'counter' them." would be my suggestion.

    It is a game mechanic that you need to play around more than list build around.

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    Conqueror ZagNation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Chris View Post
    Guys, just be careful about your assumptions regarding targeting models with sprays when clouds are involved. What worked in Mk2 doesn't necessarily work in Mk3...
    I THINK you can still spray through clouds without necessarily needing LOS to all models (just to the one you're targeting). I know you can't hit a model through a forest if LOS doesn't exist - even if it's under the template; BUT I believe clouds still function differently from forests in this edition.

    Note: I don't have the rules in front of me, so this is unverified.

  8. #8

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    You can't spray wildly through clouds, you need to have a target. So you CAN spray your own guys, but that's literally shooting yourself in the foot in some circumstances.

    And as to those who say "Don't build to counter, build to make your own list" I certainly am! I have a list I incredibly love, and feel bad that I gravitate to much to it, but I'm really just looking for ways to deal with (and hopefully nip the meta in the bud) clouds.

    I have Rhoven, but besides him I don't feel like we have a way around smoke clouds that isn't provided through a Warcaster (No, I'm not adding Tristan1 to that list). There is using sprays from our few jacks and our cleansers to shoot at each other and end up hitting what's on the other side of the wall, but that's usually (but not always) more trouble than it's worth.

    Purification doesn't strip away smoke clouds, and Lamentation cuts down on placeable smoke clouds but that limits it rather than negates it.

    One thing I'm curious of, is if spells like Khador's Warcaster's ability to place smoke clouds that give -2 to attack rolls to anything that isn't immune to frost, or if Cryx's caustic clouds trigger Reznik1's Witchhound ability.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Chris View Post
    Guys, just be careful about your assumptions regarding targeting models with sprays when clouds are involved. What worked in Mk2 doesn't necessarily work in Mk3...
    It is still something worth noting I think. With our models we can set up interesting angles while not wasting our own guys. Or do clouds prevent sprays from going through? (I literally could be wrong there).
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    Quote Originally Posted by EchoDelta View Post
    It is still something worth noting I think. With our models we can set up interesting angles while not wasting our own guys. Or do clouds prevent sprays from going through? (I literally could be wrong there).
    You can't target through a cloud, but you can spray through a cloud if you have a target you can see (like another Cleanser).
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackraine View Post
    You can't target through a cloud, but you can spray through a cloud if you have a target you can see (like another Cleanser).
    Ah ok, then I was right. Imagine if I had been doing it wrong all this time XD
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  12. #12
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    Or do clouds prevent sprays from going through?
    clouds do not prevent sprays from going through. clouds dont work like forests.

    you cant target models behind a cloud, but you can target models in front of or in a cloud, and everything under the spray gets attacked.


    also tristan has field marshal true sight which ignores cloud effects. I still think its one of the most situational and worst field marshals. but if your local meta has an overwhelming number of cloud effects maybe hes worth investing in.

  13. #13
    Destroyer of Worlds Mr Nailbrain's Avatar
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    With the casters that place 3+ clouds to deliver their army, you can't really do much about it unless you are playing Tristan2. What you *can* do, however, is set up in such a way that the alpha strike from behind the clouds is a crap turn for them. Use a defensive or control feat, don't give them any juicy targets, feed them TFG or another crap unit to choke on, and set up bad piece trades for whatever comes through the clouds. Offer them a Crusader for their big expensive character heavy.

    Menoth players have taken it up the butt for years from factions that are faster than we are. Every game ever against circle has been "walk up the field, get charged from 14 inches away, everything sprints back, your stuff still can't charge, and repeat this the next turn". Menoth is one of the best factions to absorb an alpha strike without losing important models. Cloud walls are no different.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Nailbrain View Post
    With the casters that place 3+ clouds to deliver their army, you can't really do much about it unless you are playing Tristan2. What you *can* do, however, is set up in such a way that the alpha strike from behind the clouds is a crap turn for them. Use a defensive or control feat, don't give them any juicy targets, feed them TFG or another crap unit to choke on, and set up bad piece trades for whatever comes through the clouds. Offer them a Crusader for their big expensive character heavy.

    Menoth players have taken it up the butt for years from factions that are faster than we are. Every game ever against circle has been "walk up the field, get charged from 14 inches away, everything sprints back, your stuff still can't charge, and repeat this the next turn". Menoth is one of the best factions to absorb an alpha strike without losing important models. Cloud walls are no different.
    ^This is a good reply. People should read and absorb this reply.

    Also, play to scenario first before worrying about attrition. As said, cop the alpha, recover from it and beat back harder. We have sprays and all kinds of stuff that ignore clouds once they're close enough.
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    Conqueror Master Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulblighter View Post
    clouds do not prevent sprays from going through. clouds dont work like forests.

    you cant target models behind a cloud, but you can target models in front of or in a cloud, and everything under the spray gets attacked.
    I have been proven a fool (not the first time and probably not the last). Apologies to anyone who took my false words to heart (but if you're dumb enough to take my advice...)

    Previous to the December errata, Cloud Effects (at least, the 'Terrain Ones') counted for the purposes of 'completely blocking LOS' in order to prevent Sprays from making incidental hits.

    However, now you can most certainly target a model within (or in front of) a cloud and be allowed to make attack rolls against models behind the cloud.
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