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  1. #1

    Default Gators vs Cephalyx

    Hey all! New to the swamp and I have a question for y'all. I bought into gators heavily (mark 3 has been kind to our piggie brethren but I can't spend all the money on basically a second faction) My man tournament list is Rask and the lessers which does just fine except against my main meta opponent a Cephalix player who runs 60 drudges who with adrenal flood can hit as hard as heavies! Then there's the overlords who spray telekanises to make objective play hard as well as his feat to move everyone! Plus he can spread out so aoe from spotters doesn't do as much as it should.
    I tried the sacral vault which does decent but he even found away around that. He can adrenal flood guys into it and put decent damage and then take the wound. Not to mention the one unit that ambushes! So my question fellow gators how do I deal with that many models with tough as well as a caster who sits by his wreckers and sac pawns any attempt at assasination!?

  2. #2
    Destroyer of Worlds Angry Norway's Avatar
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    Have you tried some Sacral Vaults and Wrongeye/Snapjaw? The Lesser is immune to TK shenanigans, Arcane Vortex mucks up his day, use Vaults to contest scenario and force his heavies to come up.

    Outside of those general models, Thexus dies like a ***** to Magic, Calaban would probably have a bit of a giggle into that build (Model rules pending, on my way out the door).
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  3. #3

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    Thanks for the reply! I've thought about calaban but sadly he's the only gator lock I don't have. I have a vault but really don't see the need for a second outside of just playing this one person. The issue I found with the lesssers is rampager the best into the lock to either transfer to itself or kill the lock outright. I really have a hard time against him haha

  4. #4

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    Maybe I'm misreading the rules on the vault, but if it's camping a soul, how are adrenal flooded models attacking it ? Shouldn't the damage from the aura apply before the attack is resolved ?

  5. #5

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    I thought the vault would be the answer to my issue but sadly the wording on the vault says upon entering or ending their activation with in 2 they take the point. So using another drudge unit he can adrenal flood the 4 inches to move another unit within the 2" bubble. Now the drudge doesn't enter during its activation so it attacks the vault with the juiced up guy do some damage and at the end probably make a tough roll haha. Next turn rinse and repeat and the vault usually goes down at that point.

  6. #6
    Destroyer of Worlds Angry Norway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galiman View Post
    Now the drudge doesn't enter during its activation
    Activation isn't relevant, it's still entering so immediately takes a point.

    Edit To clarify it's "entering" OR "End Activation". Ergo when it enters, even on an out of activation move, it pings and tough roll he goes. If he does pass the tough roll Ceph don't have a way to stand him in that turn, so still safe (In fact a soul on the offering).
    Last edited by Angry Norway; 01-11-2017 at 01:57 AM.
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  7. #7

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    I could be wrong, but the wording on the description seems to imply that simply entering within 2" triggers the damage. It does not specifically state that the model must enter during the activation.

    The conditions read as "an enemy entering within 2" OR "an enemy ending ending their activation within", implying that either one would meet the requirements to suffer damage.

    The rules define entering as "A model enters an area when it moves from not being within an area to being within an area, when it is put into play in the area, or when it is placed in the area.

    Covering Fire has the same wording, and a common tactic with that is to push/pull models into the template to force damage roll.

    Based on this, the out of combat move from adrenal flood does trigger the damage.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galiman View Post
    I tried the sacral vault which does decent but he even found away around that. He can adrenal flood guys into it and put decent damage and then take the wound. Not to mention the one unit that ambushes! So my question fellow gators how do I deal with that many models with tough as well as a caster who sits by his wreckers and sac pawns any attempt at assasination!?
    No he can't. The wording is "(Enters) or (ends activation)" as mentioned. Of course Thexus being Thexus the way round this is that if he moves the Sacral Vault towards the Drudges they don't drop dead. But that can be very hard work.

    One fundamental weakness of Drudges is if you can take out the Mind Slaver or Mind Benders the unit's Drudges are CMD4 - which is not a lot to play with. They simply can't spread out in any way.

    And other than the Vault I wouldn't care to play Drudges into Croaks. SPD 5, 1/2" melee threat isn't good at all. Calaban of course gets to do silly things and cycle Parasite when facing a horde (and that even if he's not dealing with Alexia.

  9. #9

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    I'm going to have to talk with him about the vault ruling. I swear it was worded differently a week ago. I'm aware of killing the leader but stealth can be difficult to get through aside from skaraath. I use croaks against him but with deceleration up he's arm 17 so they don't go down as much as I'd like and they get sprayed away by his overlords. Stupid pathfinder and stealth

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galiman View Post
    I'm going to have to talk with him about the vault ruling. I swear it was worded differently a week ago. I'm aware of killing the leader but stealth can be difficult to get through aside from skaraath. I use croaks against him but with deceleration up he's arm 17 so they don't go down as much as I'd like and they get sprayed away by his overlords. Stupid pathfinder and stealth
    The sacral vault has eyeless sight and ignores stealth. Mist speakers can also let models ignore stealth.

  11. #11
    Annihilator Hjard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galiman View Post
    I'm aware of killing the leader but stealth can be difficult to get through aside from skaraath.
    The Sacral Vault also has Eyeless Sight and a boostable gun which kills the Cephalyx very easily.
    The Spitter and Rorsh have guns with boostable blast damage, that works, too, a decent amoutn of times. Rorsh can't throw that far but that also means less chance of deviating off the target.

  12. #12
    Destroyer of Worlds Malkav13's Avatar
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    Try JagaJaga with some guns as well. Her Feat will jam that army so hard. Plus, she has spellpiercer and Deadweight. Getting Deadweight onto a unit Leader seriously limits how far they can go.
    And as has been mentioned, a Vault will make that list cry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkav13 View Post
    Try JagaJaga with some guns as well. Her Feat will jam that army so hard. Plus, she has spellpiercer and Deadweight. Getting Deadweight onto a unit Leader seriously limits how far they can go.
    And as has been mentioned, a Vault will make that list cry.
    Good point. Spellpiercer counters deceleration so your croaks need 6s not 8s to force a tough check.

    And while I'm at it, the Gatorman Bokor and Shamblers and the CrocDoc aren't models you'd normally expect to use in Mk3, but if he's playing Mk2 tactics so can you. The Bokor gets a free shambler for each Drudge you kill in range (watch for those sprays) and the CrocDoc can both make the Shamblers tough to increase the annoyance factor and can sacrifice them to kill Cephalyx on a 5+ on 2d6.

  14. #14

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    Thanks everyone! I actually just picked up Jaga last night. I'll give her a shot. I'm guessing her feet jams by building a wall of the models you control from feat?

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    Pretty much. Remember they can't attack but they can make free strikes. And the jam becomes hellish because the models that kill the models Jaga-Jaga feats are now stuck in place and getting in the way.

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    For the sake of managed expectations, be aware there is counterplay Thexus can do into vaults.
    He can TK burn through. If the Vault has less than four souls, which is, lets be honest, quite likely, then Thexus can run up a Monstrosity (Or put himself at risk, which seems bad) and burn his stack casting Telekinesis to drain your souls and kill the vault.
    More likely he'll just run up a Monstrosity, with a friendly TK the Wrecker has equal threat to the Vaults guns and will easily kill it, then the Drudges can swarm forth.

    I'm hesitant about Jaga Jaga being recommended, does your environment typically have 2 lists? It's not enough to only be able to fight half a pairing, outside this thread Jaga has received very little props (Rather the opposite).
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  17. #17

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    We do do two lists and run a lot of small tournaments. I've been running Barney against him to knock them down and ignore tough. Yea I know he can telekinesis shenanigans so I always keep a heavy near the vault to at least trade worst case scenario. But if he's burning all that he has no focus and isn't using rampager and decel. So that's the silver lining for a turn

  18. #18
    Annihilator Hjard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galiman View Post
    We do do two lists and run a lot of small tournaments. I've been running Barney against him to knock them down and ignore tough. Yea I know he can telekinesis shenanigans so I always keep a heavy near the vault to at least trade worst case scenario. But if he's burning all that he has no focus and isn't using rampager and decel. So that's the silver lining for a turn
    Even if he tries that, you don't have to use Arcane Vortex if there is nothing threatening the Vault. Sure, the Vault get's placed 2" out of his way, but the Soulstorm Aura is still really big and still blocks of a lot of space for the Drudges. So never spend the last Soul on the Vault unless the TK would bring it into range of one of the monstrosities.
    You could also take 2 Vaults next to each other, if you really want to screw up this list. Get's expensive without much benefit though.

  19. #19
    Destroyer of Worlds Malkav13's Avatar
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    I don't know why people are down on JagaJaga. She is excellent into tropp heavy lists and has some very useful spells.
    QUOTE (poeticruse @ Mar 27 2009, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    So please, think of the goats. Don't demand official answers.
    QUOTE (poeticruse @ Apr 16 2009, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    "fruitbatbananacoated"

  20. #20
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkav13 View Post
    I don't know why people are down on JagaJaga. She is excellent into tropp heavy lists and has some very useful spells.
    Mostly cause she lost the full advance part of the feat, that is the part that bugs me.

  22. #22
    Destroyer of Worlds allistorpreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkav13 View Post
    I don't know why people are down on JagaJaga. She is excellent into tropp heavy lists and has some very useful spells.
    for me it is less that I am down on Jaga and moer that Caleban and Maelok really stepped up in MK III. Jaga's just gotta wait a bit is all
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