Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 81 to 120 of 213
  1. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Po the Barbarian View Post
    I'm not saying cygnar is any more powerful than say ret, khador, or circle. I'm saying Cygnar gets away with being better at several other faction's defining traits and abilities.
    Nope, cygnar is good at many thing and master of none...

  2. #82
    Destroyer of Worlds SnarlyYow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    The Valley, Oregon
    Posts
    2,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mekame View Post
    Part of this may be my inherent distaste for demonizing a single faction. However, if we truly were as powerful as all this relative to the other factions one would think we would be dominating every tournament out there. Granted I don't follow this as much as many but I don't see that being the case from what research I did. So yeah, we have our strengths, some versitility. But so do others it would seem.
    It's not even that. If N3mo were totally OP you'd see him everywhere. I just got done playing him for the last month and I can straight tell you he's fairly middling. He's not awful but he's not fantastic either. People complaining about leaps have to look at the faction. Cygnar has loads of accurate POW10s with Gun Mages and Trenchers and so on. Having auto-hitting POW10s is nice and all, but we're not Cryx or Skorne or Menoth where auto-hitting low POW ranged attacks would significantly change their faction. For Cygnar it's more of the same. How we apply accurate POW10s, either with trenchers or eleaps or what-have-you doesn't matter. It's a faction defining characteristic
    The game is good.
    The B13 are fine
    Listen to the Storm Chamber

  3. #83
    Destroyer of Worlds Po the Barbarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    8,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthebomb View Post
    Nope, cygnar is good at many thing and master of none...
    Not masters of highly accurate shooting? I'm pretty sure your assertion is off to a bad start here.

    But, if you want to give examples of higher durability caster-independent modules in other factions for example, I'll start to buy it, but just saying "nope!" doesn't quite cut it as a response to specific examples.

    Especially, I'd like to hear about some factions that do better shooting than Cygnar. There is competition from some casters and lists, sure, but there is very clearly not some other faction that is the better shooting faction. It doesn't worry me if there are two or three top tier shooting factions - Cygnar is in that top tier. That is mastery.

    ... and cygnar gets to be better at things like troop recursion, spell slinging, ghost walking, incorporeal, armor skew, etc than the factions defined by those abilities. but sure. Master of none.

  4. #84
    Conqueror Strawb3rryPanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Nooope
    Posts
    471

    Default

    Nerf one boogeyman (khador jackspam) and people will.just try to invent another, sigh...

  5. #85
    Annihilator
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    792

    Default

    the only thing that bothers me about leaps is that they aren't "attacks". it very clearly comes from you and fries me....why are my exemplars not mad about this? A dude dies and was NOT RFP'd: why no soul?
    Choir Kills: 6

  6. #86
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,783

    Default

    There were 2 approaches this thread could have gone.

    One where you told people how you lost to electro leaps and asked for tips and tactics to beat them.

    The other where you catastrophised, got upset, implied cygnar players as a whole don't use strategy and bring all the anti cygnar Trolls out of the woodwork.

    You chose the wrong option, op.

  7. #87
    Destroyer of Worlds razcalking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    There were 2 approaches this thread could have gone.

    One where you told people how you lost to electro leaps and asked for tips and tactics to beat them.

    The other where you catastrophised, got upset, implied cygnar players as a whole don't use strategy and bring all the anti cygnar Trolls out of the woodwork.

    You chose the wrong option, op.
    I don't know, seemed to work for people who wanted eMadrak nerfed. Squeaky wheels and all that. Apparently people should have complained more about High Reclaimer.

  8. #88
    Annihilator Nyxu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    There were 2 approaches this thread could have gone.

    One where you told people how you lost to electro leaps and asked for tips and tactics to beat them.

    The other where you catastrophised, got upset, implied cygnar players as a whole don't use strategy and bring all the anti cygnar Trolls out of the woodwork.

    You chose the wrong option, op.
    Yup. I fully intend to reread the thread and, with a clear head, find those counter strategy tips I was apparently given and not seeing.
    Maybe then I can have a workable discussion

  9. #89
    Warrior Zibylla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post

    One where you told people how you lost to electro leaps and asked for tips and tactics to beat them.
    Well, as mentioned I PLAY cygnar... And I like strategy
    When life gives you lemons: Gurgle gurgle tapeworm

  10. #90
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxu View Post
    Yup. I fully intend to reread the thread and, with a clear head, find those counter strategy tips I was apparently given and not seeing.
    Maybe then I can have a workable discussion
    Noone gave you anything because you didn't ask, you complained.

  11. #91
    Annihilator Nyxu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hns View Post
    We have told you over and over where the weaknesses of the list you posted lie. if you are unwilling to exploit them, that is your loss, not mine.
    Was referring to this, Octavious. But hey, thanks for reminding me

  12. #92
    Annihilator
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxu View Post
    Yup. I fully intend to reread the thread and, with a clear head, find those counter strategy tips I was apparently given and not seeing.
    Maybe then I can have a workable discussion
    I think you said you play cryx, right?

    ....yeah, IDK what to tell you.
    you can't cloudwall: it'll be too far out to get the right angles, or if it's close they'll park a leap node inside it and "gain" LOS that way.
    Can't absorb it unless you want to simply not use infantry.
    Can't avoid it if you want to play.
    Can't stealth it, it doesn't target YOU.
    Can't DEF skew it, it just does damage.
    Can't ARM through it, you're cryx.

    I think your only option with infantry is to lose the first line and work from there, while having secondary tech. Maybe absorb it with a thrall boat? Should take 3 or 4 Eleaps to kill a brute, and mcthralls are pretty cheap and easily lost and replaced. Recursion from an ablative model standpoint didn't change much, IIRC.


    Maybe you could use a couple thralls right behind a could to prevent a model from running mostly through, lose those thralls to eleaps, clobber the node, and move up?
    Choir Kills: 6

  13. #93
    Conqueror Mekame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Southwest Utah, United States
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
    I've faced Nemo3 a couple of times with Cryx. I'm usually running multiple infantry units, support solos, and low ARM jacks. Why? Because I want to play how I normally do against him, not try to directly counter him and call it a cheap win. This is the ideal fodder for Nemo3 with his lightning spam, Storm Lances, and Thunderhead - resulting in me losing the first couple of match quickly.

    I'm not going to say him or his electroleaps are anywhere near broken though. I just consider it a normal counter to infantry spam and DEF skew. It falls flat on its face against armor while having very little objective holding power and no assassination game (POW 10s will add up, sure, but they're not going to insta-gib a caster). It's pure attrition. At this point keeping my infantry in multiple waves exactly 4.2" apart has become automatic and isn't really a problem with formations at all (just... be careful about which model you pick for promotion). Sacrificing my low-arm infantry and an arc node or two in order to take control of the center of the board and score a few points just seems normal; this is even easier if he's aiming for that first shot. I'm not saying this is a universal solution, counter, or whatever you want to call it. I'm just saying that this is how I look at it and it doesn't seem like a big deal at all.

    Side Note - Satyxis Raiders apparently CAN'T kill Thunderhead before he blasts them to dust. Type of thing you only try once.
    Kavrae gave some advice for how he handles my occasional use of this list from a Cryx standpoint. Very...cryxan, really. Works ok in the aggregate, when he doesn't run a clump of raiders too near Thunderhead's pulse.

  14. #94
    Annihilator Nyxu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    753

    Default

    I will say, I was one point of damage shy of killing Nemo in retaliation with feedback. And another player commented that there may have been a venom vector if I had taken a different route that might've changed the odds, but picking up the majority of two units of your premiere "hard to shoot" models that have died to shooting, plus a jack that never actually ate an attack, can be kind of tilting.

    That's what it boils down to for me. If I set up for a casual game night 75pt match and can basically say "oh, looks like I'm going to lose this one unless I pull out some Hail Mary assassination on turn 2" because I happened to drop the "wrong" list, it's not fun.

    If my Cygnar friend hadn't dropped the game (personal issue) I'd ask for a match against him later to try something: I've been considering doing small triangles b2b separated by 4" - a raid strategy from mmos. Possibly doing so with mechanithralls to soak leaps for another unit or themselves. (Activation issues though. )

  15. #95
    Destroyer of Worlds Po the Barbarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    8,317

    Default

    Quickly! Ignore the actual tactical advice in the thread and post complaints about the thread. That should help!

    If there is additional eleap strategy people should know about it, post about it. Complaining about complaints and acting like people should be begging for your amazing insights is the worst.

    Surely I should be providing more advice than you, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Po the Barbarian View Post
    You can certainly position to counter eleaps that come from your opponent's models. You can't perfectly shut them down, but you can make it almost impossible to get to critical models. Same goes for lightening generator attacks.

    It can be really really hard to pull off for whole units (like the krielstone) but it certainly is possible. It's more than possible for key models. You have to use hard targets as your lightening rods, and make them closer to eachother and closer to the soft targets than any soft target is to the other soft targets generally. So, like, under some circumstances you have two heavies base to base, then near them, but not in base to base you have your soft targets such that a hit to one soft target goes to the heavy on a leap, but a hit to the heavy goes to the other heavy on the leap. It grounds out all the leaps.

    Then you have to position around running enemy models. So shape the overall lightening grounding formation such that leaps off an enemy generally start going into the heavy targets after only getting a few light targets. Key targets in the back in screened positions are really hard to get to with setups like this.

    eLeaps are good, but they seem to have acceptable amounts of counter play as a general design feature.

    .

  16. #96
    Annihilator Nyxu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    753

    Default

    Complaining about complaining about complaining. We need to go deeper. OwO

  17. #97
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Po the Barbarian View Post
    Quickly! Ignore the actual tactical advice in the thread and post complaints about the thread. That should help!

    If there is additional eleap strategy people should know about it, post about it. Complaining about complaints and acting like people should be begging for your amazing insights is the worst.

    Surely I should be providing more advice than you, right?
    No, but people acting like jerks to your face doesn't get people to want to help you.

    Kindness and undertanding isn't hard.

  18. #98
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zibylla View Post
    Now that everyone see how bonkers cool nemo3 can be, ...
    Others have asked already, but I don't think it was answered: did Nemo3 just have a highly visible win I somehow missed? Or did something else happen to make Nemo3 notorious?

  19. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pangur Ban View Post
    Others have asked already, but I don't think it was answered: did Nemo3 just have a highly visible win I somehow missed? Or did something else happen to make Nemo3 notorious?
    I would also be curious to know what this highly visible win is. Also, if it is not too much of an inconvenience, could you please post this bonkers n3mo list?

  20. #100
    Annihilator newbis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    No, but people acting like jerks to your face doesn't get people to want to help you.

    Kindness and undertanding isn't hard.
    I lol'd. Pot/kettle and all that.

    E-leaps are annoying, but you'll eventually figure out how to deal with them. The real problem isn't the leaps, it's the storm lances. I was surprised they weren't toned down a bit in the last round of changes.

  21. #101
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by newbis View Post
    I lol'd. Pot/kettle and all that.

    E-leaps are annoying, but you'll eventually figure out how to deal with them. The real problem isn't the leaps, it's the storm lances. I was surprised they weren't toned down a bit in the last round of changes.

    Nah, the Storm Lances are fine. Other cav should be brought up to their level.

    I imagine if PP wants to do any more Cygnar changes they will need to wait at least a bit before gutting more models.

  22. #102
    Destroyer of Worlds
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    Nah, the Storm Lances are fine. Other cav should be brought up to their level.

    I imagine if PP wants to do any more Cygnar changes they will need to wait at least a bit before gutting more models.
    If Storm Lances are fine, other units should be brought up to their level, not just other cav. Cygnaran units and other factions'. It should probably be a bit of both though: Lances could stand a tiny nerf, and other units would still be a buff away from their level.

  23. #103
    Annihilator
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    778

    Default

    E-leaps are annoying, but you'll eventually figure out how to deal with them. The real problem isn't the leaps, it's the storm lances. I was surprised they weren't toned down a bit in the last round of changes.
    It's easy to complain about Lances because of how visible they are, but they're only visible because they're one of two good units in the faction. They have many weaknesses.

  24. #104
    Destroyer of Worlds Azuresun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxu View Post
    Please demonstrate how to position a 75pt army to "work against electroleaps"
    Don't take any infantry, and treat all DEF values as being 10 if they were higher. It's what I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by newbis View Post
    I lol'd. Pot/kettle and all that.
    I know, right?
    Last edited by Azuresun; 01-11-2017 at 05:02 PM.
    Surround yourself with human beings, my dear James. They are easier to fight for than principles.

  25. #105
    Destroyer of Worlds Octavius_Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    Don't take any infantry, and treat all DEF values as being 10 if they were higher. It's what I do.



    I know, right?
    Don't position your models in a way that you are suddenly surprised by losing them to electroleaps. Utilise Objectives, heavies and flags to redirect electrical attacks.

  26. #106
    Annihilator
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    990

    Default

    electroleaps are much easier to deal with than say lightning generator. I can usually make good use of that ability with electromancers if that is what I currently need. Being able to "place" leaps with friendly models can be a little bit frustrating and it would be nice to do away with damage rolls not counting as an attack, but if lances need to lose some of their leaps it is only because with their current output potential and survivability and speed they are massively superior to any other faction choice for Cygnar. Other options in Cygnar should probably be buffed up some and lances might need a slight pull down. Might.

  27. #107
    Destroyer of Worlds Angry Norway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Not Norway
    Posts
    2,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vaildin View Post
    For a lot of people, the most broken thing in the game is the thing that beat them last night. Not that I'm saying that necessarily applies to anyone in this thread.
    Just implying with a gravitas equitable to the slow pull of life into oblivion?
    I support non-image bloated signatures. My sense of humour is deficient.
    Post count equates time spent typing online and nothing more.
    My r̶a̶n̶d̶o̶m̶ extremely specific batreps

  28. #108
    Destroyer of Worlds allistorpreist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    LA & OC
    Posts
    3,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Po the Barbarian View Post
    Not masters of highly accurate shooting? I'm pretty sure your assertion is off to a bad start here.

    But, if you want to give examples of higher durability caster-independent modules in other factions for example, I'll start to buy it, but just saying "nope!" doesn't quite cut it as a response to specific examples.

    Especially, I'd like to hear about some factions that do better shooting than Cygnar. There is competition from some casters and lists, sure, but there is very clearly not some other faction that is the better shooting faction. It doesn't worry me if there are two or three top tier shooting factions - Cygnar is in that top tier. That is mastery.

    ... and cygnar gets to be better at things like troop recursion, spell slinging, ghost walking, incorporeal, armor skew, etc than the factions defined by those abilities. but sure. Master of none.
    Eh what?

    I mean, if you take casters out of the equation Khador, the Protectorate and Elves leap to mind as better shooters. It is only because swans have a few warcasters that up our shooting game that makes then the commanding shooters. trenchers may be more durable than Khodoran rifles, but they don't have Joe.

    Storm Lances and Trenchers are pretty amazing, and Lances may be at the top of the game right now, but other factions seem to be pretty good at their things.
    Cygnar - 9 Casters, 508 Points Cryx - 6 Casters 289 Points Mercs 7 Caster XXX? Points

  29. #109
    Destroyer of Worlds Po the Barbarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    8,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allistorpreist View Post
    Eh what?

    I mean, if you take casters out of the equation Khador, the Protectorate and Elves leap to mind as better shooters. It is only because swans have a few warcasters that up our shooting game that makes then the commanding shooters. trenchers may be more durable than Khodoran rifles, but they don't have Joe.

    Storm Lances and Trenchers are pretty amazing, and Lances may be at the top of the game right now, but other factions seem to be pretty good at their things.
    but you do have those casters, so doing a comparison without them doesn't make any sense. Most games get played with a caster.

  30. #110
    Destroyer of Worlds NEoJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Collinsville, IL
    Posts
    1,549

    Default

    I mean, if Nemo 3 is OP (he's probably not) then discuss nerfing him all day. But don't just nerf electroleap in general. Cygnar is built to abuse it to the absolute maximum, but stuff like lightning troll and electromancers and Orin Midwinter don't need to be caught in the crossfire with their perfectly reasonable mechanics.

  31. #111
    Destroyer of Worlds NEoJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Collinsville, IL
    Posts
    1,549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Po the Barbarian View Post
    Not masters of highly accurate shooting? I'm pretty sure your assertion is off to a bad start here.

    But, if you want to give examples of higher durability caster-independent modules in other factions for example, I'll start to buy it, but just saying "nope!" doesn't quite cut it as a response to specific examples.

    Especially, I'd like to hear about some factions that do better shooting than Cygnar. There is competition from some casters and lists, sure, but there is very clearly not some other faction that is the better shooting faction. It doesn't worry me if there are two or three top tier shooting factions - Cygnar is in that top tier. That is mastery.

    ... and cygnar gets to be better at things like troop recursion, spell slinging, ghost walking, incorporeal, armor skew, etc than the factions defined by those abilities. but sure. Master of none.
    I actually want to check this out, since I'm kind of behind on my research. But I think Cygnar is merely the master of highly accurate shooting. Last I checked, between Cygnar and Ret, Ret can't really compete with Cygnar's accuracy while Cygnar can't compete with Ret's damage. Flare and Mark Target vs Invictors and Stormfall Archers, etc. I'll do some more checking.

  32. #112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NEoJoe View Post
    I mean, if Nemo 3 is OP
    Lets all be honest here, he is nowhere close to OP.

    Maybe because i play ret, and not cryx i have a little bit skewed view on this. My local cygnar guy plays nemo3 almost exclusively and i regularly stomp him in the ground with Kaelyssa and Vyros2

  33. #113

    Default

    N3mo is not even close to op. That's ridiculous, and honestly nothing is wrong with Eleaps, is it crazy good against certain types of lists? Sure. It has some paper to its scissors, but it gets wrecked by plenty of stuff. It has plenty of weaknesses.

  34. #114
    Destroyer of Worlds The Aegis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius_Maximus View Post
    There were 2 approaches this thread could have gone.

    One where you told people how you lost to electro leaps and asked for tips and tactics to beat them.

    The other where you catastrophised, got upset, implied cygnar players as a whole don't use strategy and bring all the anti cygnar Trolls out of the woodwork.

    You chose the wrong option, op.
    This is one of the times I totally agree with you...

    Also, to the op:

    1) No, please... Touch me Nemo3 (see avatar) and I'll start to really be pissed off. (Personal honest reaction)

    2) Fluff says that is a totally legitimate tactic:

    Quote Originally Posted by IntoTheWild (Little Spoiler)
    Someone on the wall shouted in alarm. Rather than try to escape
    or defend himself, Cleasby calmly reached up and flipped down his
    visor.
    Caradoc watched, amused. There was no way the inaccurate
    lightning weapons would be able to strike Betrys mid-leap, and
    she would be able to shrug off the more accurate bullets. Cleasby
    was finished.
    Only they didn’t shoot their lightning at Betrys. Instead, they
    launched their lightning bolts at her target. The clumsy storm
    weapons had been aimed at where an attacker would inevitably end
    up. With a deafening roar, arcs of flashing blue lightning engulfed
    Cleasby, yet he only stood there, motionless, immune as the crackling
    energy danced across his body and left him unharmed.
    The skinwalker wasn’t so lucky. Her momentum carried her
    directly into the multiple arcs. The blinding flash forced Caradoc to
    cover his eyes as every lightning weapon on the wall blew Betrys to
    pieces.
    http://privateerpressforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic114488_4.gif
    R.I.P. Page 5... We miss you.
    You can find my painting blog HERE!

  35. #115

    Default

    If eLeap is OP in and of itself then obviously the best Circle list to be running is the following:

    Kruegar the Stormwrath +28
    Storm Raptor -38
    Celestial Fulcrum -19
    Tharn Ravager Shaman -5
    Tharn Ravager Shaman -5
    Gallows Grove -2
    Gallows Grove -2
    Druids of Orboros -12
    Druids of Orboros Overseer -4
    Druids of Orboros -12
    Druids of Orboros Overseer -4

    Units that can be immune to lightning to move up and be targeted. Multiple ranged and close combat eLeap generators and a lightning buff from the Storm Raptor.

    More than just Cygnar use eLeap. If the synergies in Cygnar are causing issues (and most people don't agree that they are) then look at them rather than the ability as a whole. I haven't heard a single person claiming that Kruegar is OP in MkIII.

  36. #116
    Conqueror
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    454

    Default

    I apologize for my lack of empathy earlier. I understand where you (@Nyxu) are coming from. Getting shot off the table without a chance to really do anything about it is probably the worst thing WMH has to offer. That said, I do not think Nemo3 is necessarily one of the more crazy gunline casters. Cryx is just pretty bad into gunlines in general and the errata did nothing to help with that aside from the changes to Joe and Ossyan. But Electro Leaps in particular are still something you can play against with every faction. The trouble here is that it is a lot easier to show (and do) on the tabletop than to explain it in a forum post.

    Let's try anyway. I think the major point to understand here is that preventing all EL to your models is not necessary. It is enough to make those EL really unattractive. Let's look at a few examples:
    1) Take two tough models (and by that I mean heavies) and place them base to base. Now place infantry around them (preferably so that you don't block your movement next turn) so that they are 1mm away from the heavies and more than 1mm away from each other. It is now impossible to lose more than on infantry model to an EL attack and highly unlikely to lose two to Lightning Generator. You will still lose models on the approach, that is a given, but your losses will be drastically reduced.
    2) You run some models (let's say Satyxis) up the field. Your opponent has a Stormwall and a unit of Lances in his list and you can already see his cheeky grin as he takes out a Lightning Pod. So you can calculate the following: Storm Lances threat 19" on their assault shots, a little more than 24" on their EL with a perfectly placed pod. Now should you stay >24" away from those lances? I think that would be a mistake. If you place your Raiders outside of 13" of the Lances; 1 at 18" from the Stormwall, 1 at 21", 1 at 22" and the rest at >22" you probably have optimal positioning. This leaves the Cygnar player with a bunch of bad choices. He can walk the Stormwall up, place a pod, shoot that pod and kill a single Raider. He can trample the Stormwall up, shoot the pod and kill three Raiders. He can ignore the pod entirely and shoot directly at your Raiders with his Lances. He'd need 11s to hit and will probably not do too much. All of these are highly inefficient activations, which is something Cygnar can not afford.

    Just a few examples. There's tons more, but time and forum space are limited.

  37. #117
    Destroyer of Worlds RorinTh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Umeå, Sweden
    Posts
    1,299

    Default

    So what has happened when everyone starts talking Nemo3 "out of the blue" is if I can make a guess that one of the more visible and successfull cygnar players around picked up Nemo3 and started writing about him on his blog. The reason he picked up Nemo3 is to counter circle Una+WW combo that most seem to struggle with at the moment.

    This seems like a fairly good plan, most circle models don't go above arm 17 and boosted leaps start to hurt a lot. And the birds really hurt from the leaps. So is it impossible for circle to counter it? Ever looked at Krueger2 i mk3? Not sure if I have ever seen that kind of hard counter in the game before, and that is from the faction the list is built for...

    I think e-leaps overall can be solved by both listbuilding and play on the table. It is a very strong tolls especially with the ability to leap from your own models but it is not without counters.

    What I can agree with from this thread though is the problem with leaps not being attacks. Why do they need to get around self sac, vengence, soulgenerating and so on? I dont see any reason from a balance or fluff perspctive for those interaction. They are unintuitive, hard to understand and increases complexity for no reason.
    WTC team Sweden Dynamite 2015 16/50 Skarre1 (+Goreshade2)
    WTC team Sweden Nobel 2016 4/64 Karchev (+Vlad1)

  38. #118

    Default

    More than just Cygnar use eLeap. If the synergies in Cygnar are causing issues (and most people don't agree that they are) then look at them rather than the ability as a whole. I haven't heard a single person claiming that Kruegar is OP in MkIII.
    Nemo3 thinks Krueger2 is OP xD
    And in above example, remember that the Lances cannot assault the pod, as they cannot charge a friendly model. So the Leap range on friendly models is 16" + base + 4"

  39. #119
    Warrior Zibylla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NEoJoe View Post
    don't just nerf electroleap in general.
    Not nerfing, balancing! I remeber when leaps also went through models with imunity electricity, made it possible to engage models without being fried. Now they just ignore models with imunity and go on to the next model without, why was this changed? Nemo3 is not op, he is quite fun but it is easier to see the comparisment to mk2 with a caster who has the obvious flaws with the change to the leaping rule with the autoboosted (additional dice) and autohit pow 12.

    So, in short: leaping was perfectly fine in mk2, now they need a tuning of some sort (I think, and some others. Not everyone but clearly there is dissagrement to how they should be) Many in my meta played caine2 for quite a long time, now some think he is unplayable (I don't) and jumped the gun to Nemo3, and with no much spotting of him until now I think we are going to see more of him in the time to come.

    There is also a lot that don't "go with the fluff" but we could still "go with it" if leaps also go through models with imunity electricity.
    When life gives you lemons: Gurgle gurgle tapeworm

  40. #120
    Destroyer of Worlds NEoJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Collinsville, IL
    Posts
    1,549

    Default

    Honestly I've seen the electroleap ignoring electrical immune models hurt just as much as it helps. Lanyssa moves up to tag her target, and winds up surrounded with lightning guys? Great. Ez to get my leaps on her.

    Again, if your problem is Nemo 3, discuss Nemo 3. Not a mechanic that reaches across basically the entire game, just because the MOST ELECTRICAL WARCASTER MASTER OF LIGHTNING takes it up to 11.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •